When a U.S. citizen heard he was on his own country’s drone target list, he wasn’t sure he believed it. After five near-misses, he does – and is suing the United States to contest his own execution
...
With Reprieve’s help, Kareem did what the system asks a law-abiding American citizen with a grievance to do. He sued, filing a complaint in district court in Washington, D.C., on March 30th, 2017, asking the U.S. government to take him off the Kill List, at least until he had a chance to challenge the evidence against him.The case, still unresolved more than a year later, has awesome implications not just for Kareem but for all Americans – all people everywhere, for that matter.
It’s not a stretch to say that it’s one of the most important lawsuits to ever cross the desk of a federal judge. The core of the Bill of Rights is in play, and a wrong result could formalize a slide into authoritarianism that began long ago, but accelerated after 9/11.
He needs to take the matter to Information Retrieval, but heaven help him if he doesn't get his receipt stamped first.
[Ed note: It's a long read, but provides extensive background on the US government's kill list development, implementation, and complications in trying to do anything about it.]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20 2018, @11:09PM (45 children)
It's always NSA, NSA, NSA, bad puppy. But what about other country's intelligence agencies and their shit lists? Why don't we hear more about Russia's spooks and their ways of spying on the people via tech and so many other ways? Sure, we hear about Russian spies operating in the US and abroad, but little else.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bob_super on Friday July 20 2018, @11:13PM (1 child)
The marketing brochure/ad/movie said that the US were the Good Guys.
Pointing out that Kim is worse because he ordered his own half-brother killed by a nerve agent is no excuse for Gitmo.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:36AM
Not to mention that Kim's supposed crime is unproved allegation, while the US openly keeps killing lists.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by requerdanos on Friday July 20 2018, @11:26PM (3 children)
Here is a link to several of the hundreds of recent news stories about Russia's hit lists [google.com] just in case you missed it, as you claim.
Though the NSA is bad news for sure, if you favor decentralized government and disfavor covert shenanigans, I don't recall seeing the NSA implicated in any of these. The U.S. president, sure, he's buddies with their president, but the NSA, no.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20 2018, @11:39PM (2 children)
I'm not so interested in assassination methods and events, but more about their ways of spying on their own citizens.
You recall the CIA data dump on WikiLeaks detailing various root-kit software? Yeah, more of that but from other countries outside the USA. You know, the rest of the world?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by requerdanos on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:00AM (1 child)
Yes, I know the rest of the world. I have visited four of the seven continents and speak two languages fluently and study two more.
It's the USA boogeyman in this article because the USA is working to kill someone extrajudicially. Russia is in the headlines for similar dark deeds.
I, too, would like to know what means that Russia uses, and the СССР before it used, to invade the privacy of the people living there.
But going around killing people with virtual impunity is, I would submit, probably a worse thing, even though the domestic spy-and-control operations affect more people.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Saturday July 21 2018, @08:53AM
They used low tech means. Most of the time, they invaded that privacy by sending in NKVD agents. [wikipedia.org]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Friday July 20 2018, @11:40PM (4 children)
No other countries are using drones to kill people to the extent that the USA is. I would think that an America-based publication would be more interested in American citizens being wrongly targeted for death by robot anyway.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20 2018, @11:51PM (2 children)
Yeah, they should really have soldiers running after the enemy with electronic meat grinders and chainsaws. How dare they use drones!
HOW DARE THEY I SAY!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by takyon on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:19AM (1 child)
Try reading the article. Or other articles on the subject. Killing has been made too easy and attractive for the US military and CIA. They kill someone's grandma or some kids, or heaven forbid, the wrong adult male, and nobody cares. In America at least. Over there it is pissing them off big time. Why wouldn't they want to take revenge? Despair and poverty, maybe, but they can find sponsors.
And this is great practice for using the technologies in American airspace. After all, why should we put a SWAT officer's life at risk when we can just send in a drone or two? And if you're designated as a terrorist, no more due process for you.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by legont on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:46AM
Drones are operated by ordinary Americans dwelling in ordinary cities mixed with you and me. A measured response would kill you and me easily. It looks like our country is simply using us as human shields.
The consequences are really bad. That's why we now have security everywhere and 5 times more police than supposedly police state Russia.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:00AM
Trump should repeal Obama's drone policy. [vox.com] The neocons would hate it and the left would melt in the flames of their endless hypocrisy.
(Score: 4, Informative) by LoRdTAW on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:18AM (22 children)
Because any talk of Russian interference is buried by the troll army and branded fake news. It's time the world wakes up and realizes we are in the middle of a full blown internet based (dis)information war that has influenced everything including elections and economies. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-government-sponsored-cyber-militia-cookbook/ [bloomberg.com]
Even so called secure crypto currencies are manipulated and exploited on a daily basis to make someone richer instead of the original intent of a universal secure currency. Now it's just another stock market casino.
(Score: 2, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:48AM (21 children)
Troll army. That's amusing. There must be millions like myself, who are pretty sure that Russia did a little experimental bullshit during the election. They spent what - a couple million dollars on advertising? Phhhttt - peanuts.
Branded fake news? Which brand is that? Hearst publications? Turner? MicrosoftNBC? CNN? Every one of the branded news outlets in America, except for Fox, are anti-Trump.
Jesus, man, listen to yourself.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @01:07AM (15 children)
Lol, listen to YOURself! At this point even Republican politicians are flipping on Trump. I'm not sure why you keep insisting there was no collusion when the evidence just keeps piling up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @01:15AM
The only thing I see piling up is the bullshit that there is evidence.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @01:23AM (9 children)
You're not especially literate, are you? Please, cite where I have ever "insisting there was no collusion". Read my post again. I stated that I was convinced that Russia did a little experimentation. There is no credible evidence of collusion. Key word being CREDIBLE.
If you have seen credible evidence, please, point us all to that evidence. Which source has overwhelmingly convincing evidence that Trump and Putin colluded to defeat Hillary?
It doesn't exist. In point of fact, the Dems have fastened onto this myth of collusion to explain their loss in our most recent presidential election. There seems to be about one part substance to about 250,000 parts bullshit in that mix of facts and fallacy.
You should read Aristarchus submission about bullshit before you go on.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @01:53AM (8 children)
English language, learn it, love it.
Evidence != proof.
I'll just go ahead and quote a massive chunk of an article so your lazy brain doesn't have to work too hard.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @02:08AM (6 children)
I'm sure that you'll admit that an opinion piece that cites a lot of circumstantial evidence is not, in and of itself, evidence.
Meanwhile - Hillary was happy to climb into bed with the Russians when they were putting hundreds of millions of dollars into her "foundation". The circumstantial evidence surrounding the sale of uranium futures to Russia are far more convincing than that of collusion between Trump and Putin.
But, if you are a die-hard partisan, you can convince yourself of anything the party tells you.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @06:35AM (5 children)
Emails!! She did it first!!!!
OMG get over it, you got a "republican" government, now sack it up and deal with the fact that Trump is likely a traiyor selling out our country.
Whassamatter big fella? Cant handle all the shame this will require? Its ok, ill wait for the final findings from the investigation but im afraid Trump will irreperably damage the US before you trogs get with reality.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @07:20AM (1 child)
What shame? Are you under the impression that Trump is "my guy", "my candidate", or some other such silly shit? If you've read much of my writing, you know that I despise Trump - but I despise Hillary far more. And, I enjoy pointing out your own fucking hypocrisy. The D side can't get over having lost the election, is the reason behind all the witch hunts in the Trump administration.
Your side was in bed with the Russians, so long as it was putting money into the Clinton and Democrat coffers. Now, it's nothing but evil Russians, and collusion between the two most powerful people in the world.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @05:29PM
Oh i know your feelings about trump, and obviously you dont know me cause i didnt vote for either of the turds.
However, your hatred as you SAID aligns you with Trump against the whiny democrats of which i am not one. You can condemn both, but you continually push for Trump while saying you arent. There is no proof and the actual investigation is yielding damning results, but all you can focus on are libruhl tears. It is sad you have such hupocrisy yet are blind to it.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Pav on Saturday July 21 2018, @03:17PM (2 children)
Those emails showed Bernie was cheated in several ways, and so uncontroversially that the DNC ruling committee had to resign en mass, and Donna Brazille was sacked from her media job for leaking debate questions to Hillary (only to be immediately hired by the Hillary campaign). That's your subverting democracy right there, and they cheated a guy who was further ahead of Trump than Hillary n the polls consistently for half a year. Democracy definitely suberted. And this was balls out. Unambiguous. And noones talking about it. I wonder why. Also, it showed Hillary's media allies "elevated" Trump! This was supposedly because he was the guy she had the best chance against. Again, this was a blatant subverion of US democracy. Again, noone is talking about it. Ask yourself why.
If Russia hacked that server... (which Obamas ex FBI deputy doubts, as well as several other ex three-letter-agency people such as Bill Binney, Thomas Drake etc...) then the Russians HELPED US democracy. BTW, the FBI never got access to that server. BTW, so many uncritically believe Robert "weapons of mass distruction" Mueller. Surely people on a nerd forum have memories long enough to realise this guy has proven he'll happily push untruth on the US people if it suits him. And why the sobbing about democracy in a country with the electoral college, rampant gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement? Does ANYONE believe mainstream Democrats or Republicans actually give a flying crap about democracy?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday July 21 2018, @05:09PM (1 child)
What you, and most other people, don't seem to understand is that the Democratic Party (like the others) is a privately owned organization. I don't think they broke any laws in cheating to select Hillary. It was vile and unethical, but I don't *think* it was illegal.
That said, it was pretty clear to me from the start that Bernie was the "designated loser" in the competition. And he seemed to be aware of it, and be willing to accept it in order to get his message out. But IIUC the DNC could have just appointed Hillary as their candidate, and not even bothered with a primary...but the cost in voter commitment would be too high.
That said, they did break their own rules to get Hillary to win the nomination.
The Republicans weren't much better, but they were blindsided by Trump. So we got someone even worse than the machine candidate. Whoopee!
Perhaps you can tell I'm a bit disgusted with all the political parties. Last time there wasn't a single candidate in any of the four parties on my ballot I thought better than the wino passed out on the corner.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Pav on Saturday July 21 2018, @10:40PM
Debbie Wasserman-Shultz, the head of the DNC who presided over Hillary's cheating against Bernie has also since cheated against Tim Canova (her primary opponent), and there was definitely blatant illegality in that race - basically lying about the result, then ballot destruction to hide this fact. There was an interesting video [youtube.com] released just hours ago of a three-way interview with Tim about the situation, with a citizen activist software developer called Melissa Schwartz talking about her source software which allows citizens to become involved in exit polls to catch stuff like this early.
BTW, in the lawsuit against the DNC the first judge to hear the case specifically addressed the legality of cheating, and made very clear he considered the argument that the DNC could choose who they liked (made by the defence) to be bogus... but very strangely he threw it out anyway on juristictional issues, though since then the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals has found sufficient jurisdiction to continue.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @02:33AM
Less evil than Hellary and Ocramma, so what's yer point?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @03:00AM (3 children)
Why are we starting World War 3 again? CoLlUsiON!!!eleven!1! COLLUSION OMG COLLUSION!!!
No, seriously, you listen to yourself.
If you're going to start World War 3, which will be fought with nuclear weapons, you need to be able to articulate a good fucking reason, something better than waaaaaah, Russia may have had in role in showing how fucking corrupt the Democratic Party is (which, more than anything else, is the reason we have Trump in office, you damned bastards), waaaaaah, Russia bought some Facebook ads.
The only reason your masters want to start World War 3 is because doing what is necessary to prevent the economic implosion of the USA, such as expanding our socialist programs like medicaid and SNAP, is a strategy that is lower on their list than starting nuclear fucking war. Think about that for a moment. Think about that before you vote for a Democratic Socialists of America candidate if you think that'll change anything. Your masters, as long as you're a D teamer, would rather risk a global nuclear exchange than expand medicaid to all citizens 100% funded with taxes.
How do we know they won't ever implement medicaid for all? Why didn't they do it when they were in charge of two out of the three branches of government for the first two years of Obama's presidency?
Trump is not president because of some kind of fucking collusion! How thick can you be! He is president because you fucked over Bernie Sanders. How much would you have enjoyed at least 4 years (probably 8) of dismissing all criticisms with “Sanders Derangement Syndrome?”
Incoming automatic dismissal of reality due to “Russian troll!”
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @05:36PM (2 children)
Trump is taking us closer to WW3 than anyone else. This isnt about "teams" it is about reality. Trump is tanking the US in every way and in a short time if there is a war the US will be in a bad position. Maybe you missed the whole conference thing that is all over the news but Putin admitted he wanted Trump to win and we know Russian operatives meddled.
I wish Sanders had won but that isnt what happened. Now you want everyone to ignore treason because ummm why ahain?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @06:38PM
Increased international cooperation in Syria. First direct talks with N Korea in decades. Less tense relations with Russia, and an invitation to the White House for Putin. Who exactly do you think Trump is spoiling for a shooting war with?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday July 22 2018, @10:15AM
Here, let me prove you a moron in three words: Cuban Missile Crisis.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Saturday July 21 2018, @04:18PM (1 child)
This isn't only about Trump, you said that, not me. Don't pout words in my mouth. It's real and happening. Open your eyes. Massive state sponsored misinformation and trolling. This is a global problem and happening in *every* country. And this applies not only to state actors but also businesses who can use the same tactics to bury harmful information. It's incredibly harmful because people cant make informed decisions when the information planes are flooded with convincing false information.
Read that article. It isn't about Russia or Trump. It's about a global problem that is designed to manipulate we the people. Take off your partisan colored glasses for a fucking moment and look around.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @04:47PM
Partisan colored glasses. You lose on that one.
Global problem? Mmmm-kay - but who are the globalists? Let us remember that Trump isn't a globalist. Most of the R's and most of the D's seem to be, but the Trump isn't. He may yet become one, but he is not yet.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 22 2018, @01:46AM
it's pretty impressive how low quality your posts manage to be, mate
(Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Monday July 23 2018, @02:36AM (1 child)
I quietly share this opinion. I have difficulty believing that 12 million dollars was enough to swing a billion dollar election. My read is that this was an attempt to sow discord, not to favor a candidate, and I look forward to the disclosures of the ensuing court case.
Bias disclosure, I cannot vote for a pro gun-control candidate. I agree with many democratic positions, but that one is a deal breaker for me. I voted for Gary Johnson, and am happy that Mr. Trump has done a better job than I expected. I wish I would have had a chance to vote for Bernie.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 23 2018, @04:54AM
We have that in common. The vote for Bernie? I kinda leaned that way, not sure if I would have or not. I made up my mind at the last moment on this vote, only because of the way the physical ballot was laid out. This past election was the only time in my life that I went down the ballot, and checked off single party votes, where they were available. Where the libertarian option wasn't available, I voted against the incumbent, or, in the couple of cases where there was no incumbent, I voted for the lesser of the two evils.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @01:01AM (3 children)
I'm an American citizen. I am somewhat responsible for the actions of our American boogeymen. I have no responsibility for the actions of Russian, Syrian, Iranian, Korean, or Chinese boogeymen. I share some microscopic responsibility for the Five Eye's boogeymen, by association, because American boogeymen are in league with the Five Eyes.
Your mileage may differ, based on your nationality, allegiances, and loyalties.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:10PM (2 children)
American boogeymen are 1/5 of the five eyes, I would hardly call that microscopic.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:19PM (1 child)
Again - I bear responsibility for my own country. The citizens of those other four countries bear responsibility for their own governments. My responsibility for those other four governments is indeed microsopic.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @06:48PM
Again, USA is 1/5 of the five eyes.
You said "microscopic responsibility for the Five Eye's boogeymen", not "microscopic responsibility for the other four countries of the Five Eye's boogeymen".
And before you claim "that's what I meant", you followed on by saying "American boogeymen are in league with the Five Eyes", as if the American boogeymen weren't themselves one of the five eyes.
And no, sane people don't use "in league with" to mean "part of".
You also put the apostrophe in the wrong place, YOU MONSTER.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @01:15AM
Because 'we' pretend to be better than those other countries. And when we do so, and chant U-S-A, U-S-A, and We're #1 and other moronic shit, we gotta live up to it.
If you want to compare yourself with those other countries you reference, those "beacons of enlightenment", then that says more about you than anything else.
Also, "whataboutism" is getting boring... and shows a lack of understanding of the problem at hand...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @01:34AM (2 children)
Kindly take your whataboutism and shove it up your ass. It's not helping. We're not talking about other countries, we're talking about this country. If you really want to talk about other countries we'll add that topic to the agenda and discuss it when we're dong discussing this country. If not, fuck you, fuck off, and have a nice day. :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @01:38AM (1 child)
Fucking autocorrect, WTF?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @02:09AM
No worries, Mate. We'll just get a couple Koreans involved here. Will Kim Dong Il be alright?
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Saturday July 21 2018, @05:08AM
Good point. Further, the gov't may be right.
https://theintercept.com/2015/05/08/u-s-government-designated-prominent-al-jazeera-journalist-al-qaeda-member-put-watch-list/ [theintercept.com]
"The briefing singles out Ahmad Muaffaq Zaidan, Al Jazeera’s longtime Islamabad bureau chief, as a member of the terrorist group. A Syrian national, Zaidan has focused his reporting throughout his career on the Taliban and Al Qaeda, and has conducted several high-profile interviews with senior Al Qaeda leaders, including Osama bin Laden."
You don't get multiple interviews with al Qaeda leaders unless they consider you a friendly.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Chromium_One on Saturday July 21 2018, @05:40AM
Penalty card, Whataboutism [wikipedia.org] in play. Deflecting to wrongdoing from others to distract from current discussion.
When you live in a sick society, everything you do is wrong.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:22PM
We expect KGB-like behavior from Russia and countries like it. We fought countries like those in WWII and the Cold War, and the reason we fought them is because we did not want to end up like that, with secret police and repression.
Now here we are, with several agencies that are more powerful and pervasive by orders of magnitude than the Gestapo, SS, KGB, or Stasi (or insert your totalitarian force of choice) ever were. And we're supposed to be a democracy, a nation of laws. Yet our leaders have all signed off on every horrible expansion of scope and power that those agencies have asked for, with no debate, in direct contravention of the Constitution we all know and love. So we're scratching our heads, wondering how such a thing has come to pass, that we should have woken up to a reality in place around us that is worse than the most breathless Hollywood Blockbuster ('Enemy of the State,' anyone?).
That's why it's always "NSA, NSA, NSA, bad puppy," and why it must remain so until those people, and their colleagues in the CIA and FBI, are hanged. They are traitors to the Constitution, freedom, and their oaths to defend the same.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday July 20 2018, @11:54PM (4 children)
Don't be on the record badmouthing or waiting to testify against Hillary Clinton.
Hey! Who are you? Mmmmffff! GlkubbtnrrBOOFgaksndsdnfmsd,afsd
NO CARRIER
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20 2018, @11:57PM
/not sarcasm
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:04AM
Ho-hum. Just EF being stupid again.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:08AM
What are you talking about?
James McDoug.......
Mary Mahon.......
Vince Foste.......
Ron Brow.......
James Wils.....
Kathy Fergus.......
Bill Shelt......
Suzanne Colem.....
Danny Caso.....
Paul Wilch.....
Jon Parnell Walk.....
Barbara Wis.....
Johnny Lawhor....
Stanley Huggin.....
Hershell Frida....
Victor Thor....
Seth Ric..................
(Score: 5, Interesting) by bob_super on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:19AM
Which part of "She lost, and people who don't like her control every single branch of the US government" has still not entered right-wing brains almost two years later ?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:06AM (5 children)
Why is a battle in court needed to figure this one out? The bull is deep in the US in this age of relative decline. This nonsense is how to be sure America is never great again.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @01:03AM
This would be easier if he was dealing with the EU. His "Right to be Forgotten" should be enough to save his hide.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday July 21 2018, @03:07AM (3 children)
Because declared or not, we are effectively at war with a battlefield of everywhere. Approve or not, that gives the executive and military certain leeway with regards to killing people it believes to be enemies with no proof or due process at all. This is why you never write blank checks.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @05:40PM (2 children)
See me not calling you out on your shit? Just wanted you to know that we realize you are not 100.0% full of it.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday July 21 2018, @07:12PM (1 child)
Perfection is the province of the gods. I do not aspire so high.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @10:21PM
"Perfection is the province of the gods. I do not aspire so high."
In that respect you have succeeded admirably.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:22AM (13 children)
You don't know you're on it. When you find out your on it you can't find out why. Feel thankful you're still on NoFlyList V1.0.
My ducks are not in a row. I don't know where some of them are, and I'm pretty sure one of them is a turkey.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by ilPapa on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:36AM (12 children)
The largest number of terrorist attacks in the US are perpetrated by right-wing and alt-right jackoffs. Why do they never seem to make the no-fly list?
I'm pretty sure it's an indication that the no-fly list was never about terrorism at all.
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @01:04AM (3 children)
Your left-wing MSM won't cover people like this - https://www.redneckrevolt.org/ [redneckrevolt.org]
(Score: 5, Informative) by ilPapa on Saturday July 21 2018, @03:14AM (2 children)
Yeah, see, here's the thing. Redneck Revolt didn't kill anyone. Alt-right jackoffs have quite a body count.
The "MSM" doesn't have anything to do with the fact that most of the terror attacks in the US are perpetrated by people on the Right and alt-right. That's just a fact.
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @03:48AM (1 child)
Didn't kill anyone that you know of - yet. BTW - let us not forget that the KKK were Democrats. The R's have never embraced the KKK as part of the right. KKK isn't alt-right. Robert Byrd wasn't alt-right. The Clintons who admired Byrd aren't alt-right. The female Clinton who disparaged her black slaves at the Arkansas governor's mansion isn't alt-right.
How about Patty Hearst? Have we forgotten that she was tangled up in a terrorist organization that killed people? Oh - sorry - she's a rich bitch, whose daddy was able to twist arms, and twist facts, and have all charges dismissed.
Then, there is Bell Ayers, whose sins have all been cleansed.
I know that American's memories are generally pretty short. I was hoping that your memory might be a little longer.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:13PM
You are correct that racism isn't the province of one party or the other. After Civil Rights, though, those Southern Democrats and KKK switched parties. The Republican party may not have openly embraced that, but they did lace their rhetoric with dog whistles to speak to those people.
Democrats are more Orwellian in their racism. They have trained everyone to disclaim racism while enacting policies that are racist. I saw someone recently encapsulate the approach as inverting "e pluribus, unum" to "ex uno, plures."
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Saturday July 21 2018, @05:14AM (7 children)
Someone compiled Actual Stats:
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html [johnstonsarchive.net]
37 "right"
34 "left"
49 Islamic
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 3, Informative) by ilPapa on Saturday July 21 2018, @06:45PM (6 children)
If you look from say, 1990 to date, the Actual Stats come out way different:
20 Right
9 Left
And the actual death counts is close to a 20-1 ratio.
There is no arguing that currently - TODAY - the biggest terrorist threat in the United States is right-wing extremism.
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Reziac on Saturday July 21 2018, @07:53PM (5 children)
Me, I'd be a lot more worried about CAIR (ie. the Muslim Brotherhood), Antifa, and the rest of the leftists, who historically are responsible for a lot more chaos.
Also, don't conflate "Nazi" and "right-wing" (Nazis were only right of Stalin, not right-wing).
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by ilPapa on Saturday July 21 2018, @11:20PM (4 children)
The Right has a much higher body count. No matter what you're worried about, the bigger threat of violence is from the Right.
I'm sorry that your worried, but the facts don't care about your feelings.
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Saturday July 21 2018, @11:50PM (3 children)
Not compared to the Islamic body count. Not even close.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by ilPapa on Sunday July 22 2018, @03:27AM (2 children)
Since 9/11, the right-wing assholes have even out-killed the Islamic terrorists.
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday July 22 2018, @04:25PM (1 child)
Not hardly. You need to look beyond your own front porch.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-30080914 [bbc.com]
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by ilPapa on Sunday July 22 2018, @07:12PM
Are you trying to say that the ongoing right-wing violence in the US is acceptable because there are muslims being killed in Afghanistan?
Are you fucking kidding?
While you're here, let me introduce you to alt-right murderer Jarrod Ramos:
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/07/inside-accused-annapolis-shooter-jarrod-ramos-alt-right-theology-mass-murder/ [rawstory.com]
He killed five in Annapolis, MD.
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:57AM (18 children)
We don't hear so much of that old "America, right or wrong" nonsense, as we used to hear from various sources. Still a little of it.
Everyone with that attitude should read this article. Our government does NOT represent the people. In fact, our government doesn't even represent American interests, anymore. Today, our government represents the military-industrial interests that Eisenhower warned our parents and grandparents about.
TANSTAAFL - remember that one? There is no free lunch. Ultimately, there will be a price to pay for these excesses. I don't know who is going to be collecting the bill, but I do know the American people will have to pay the bill. And, it's anybody's guess how high the interest on that bill will be. But, there will be a bill.
That old line about the tree of liberty? The tree needs to be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants from time to time? We have a fine crop of tyrants in Washington right now. Let the blood flow.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @02:25AM (15 children)
And yet you do nothing to water the tyrant tree, because you're just an old stupid asshole with a big fucking mouth. You're a worthless coward, Runaway. The best thing you can do for your country is to kill yourself. You're too much of a stupid worthless coward to end your worthless life.
Kill yourself, Runaway. Kill yourself, Runaway. Kill yourself, Runaway.
(Score: 2, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @03:55AM (14 children)
ROFLMAO - I served. You may or may not argue that my service was misguided, or misplaced, but the fact remains, that I made myself available to America, and served. I was available to slaughter tyrants. Unfortunately, no one exposed any real tyrants in our own government during my years of service. I did, however, face off against some tyrants overseas, including Kaddafi, Hussein, and Homeini, not to mention the Soviet.
And, how did YOU serve?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by TheGratefulNet on Saturday July 21 2018, @04:15AM (11 children)
'serving' by being part of the military is nothing to be proud of, these days.
the last 'good war' was ww2.
all of them since that time, that the US was in, have been total wastes of time and lives.
nothing to be proud of. those who would have you be killed would not even care about you. that's how little the leaders in the US value life.
I would not go and 'serve'. not unless the US was actually being invaded; and again, has not happened since ww2.
I know people think they deserve praise for 'serving' but I don't believe in that. it was your choice and that's fine for you, but its nothing honorable. you have been a pawn of the elites and that's all.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 5, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @04:39AM (6 children)
You forgot the Cold War, I think. Left unopposed, it is entirely reasonable to believe that Russia would have invaded all of Europe, and possibly the Americas. Cuba was pretty damned ballsy for awhile, when they thought that Russia had their backs.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @05:41AM (5 children)
The cold war, where the US overthrew countless democracies throughout the world and installed bloody right-wing dictators? Where the US was complicit in the torture of thousands and the murder of literally millions of innocent people? Yes, surely a high point and something to be proud of for those, in uniform, in service of the rich parasite class.
The US military is the last surviving welfare program for humans in the US with the added benefit that they can be deployed against their brothers in other countries to put down any challenge to the rich parasite class rule. The proper response when admitting treachery against your brothers is not pride, but shame.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @07:29AM (4 children)
Jesus Christ, you're blind. Consider one country - just one, out of dozens - where the US supported that country's regime, and opposed all of those around it. Israel. How did Israel figure into the larger geopolitical picture? And, how did Israel's neighbors fit into the Cold War? You DO realize that the Cold War was between two superpowers, and that almost every other power in the world was being used as a pawn, or at the least, one of the powers was trying to use every other nation as a pawn? Now - how did Israel fit into this power struggle?
Try not to make a complete and utter fool of yourself with your answer.
(Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Saturday July 21 2018, @11:51AM (3 children)
What does it have to do with Israel? They did everything on their own taking advantage of lack of unity in "arab world" and their lack of will to fight. However, Chile, Kongo and Iran were negatively affected by US and British pointless meddling and killing of prominent politicians there. They used communist scare as justification, but for them being communist is equivalent to not agreeing with them even potentially for any reason, thus it's basically arbitrary.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:14PM (2 children)
It has much - very much - to do with Israel. Israel willingly became a US satellite, while much of the surrounding Arab world became Soviet clients. Almost all the world's borders today are an assemblage of Soviet vs US influence. Look to Eastern Europe - most of the old nationalities are meaningless, compared to US vs Soviet influence. We commonly talk about "Western Europe" and "Eastern Europe". Look at Korea. Don't forget about China. As intelligent as Chairman Mao and his staff were, they were still just tools in the hands of the Soviet. Everywhere in the world that communism has popped up marks a victory (however major or minor) of the Soviet over America.
Israel would probably be a power in it's own right, in the world of post-WW2. Having rejected communism, and sided with the US/UK, Israel assured their place as a regional power.
Damned near everything in the world geopolitical scene that has happened after WW2, right up until the mid-80's or so revolved around the US and the Soviet. The Islamic revolution in Iran? What on earth did you THINK motivated all the stupidity, starting with Operation Ajax? The US felt that it didn't have enough influence over Iran's legitimate government, so it installed a puppet - and the Soviet aided the ayatollahs who let the revolution.
Think outside the MSM box. Israel was an important tool in the Cold War, or an important ally, depending on your point of view.
(Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Saturday July 21 2018, @01:04PM
People in middle east and china have significantly different culture and to them those Communism vs Capitalism memes have totally different meaning. Those two notions are essentially part of western neo-religion based on cargo-cult level of understanding of economic science and fetishization of economic concepts, while middle eastern countries merely try to survive and to avoid getting meddled by those communocapitalist whackos. Although I'm from Russia myself I decided to abandon this religion too. And to me this entire conflict just looks like random violence now.
(Score: 2) by ilPapa on Sunday July 22 2018, @03:28AM
You have that backwards.
And now, we're both client states of Putin's Russian Federation.
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @05:08AM
WWII was the last declared war the US fought in.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Saturday July 21 2018, @11:58AM (2 children)
I grew up in a family whose men all served in the military, mostly navy, with a couple in the army. When it came time to think about college I applied to ROTC programs thinking that would be the way to pay for college and do like the others in my family had done. After I had been awarded a couple and chose the University of Chicago, they told me I would have to get on a bus at 4am every morning and travel to the deep South Side, where all fear to go, to I.I.T. to drill. I turned down the scholarship on the spot.
Since then I have watched one friend who did take an ROTC scholarship at Washington University get endlessly jerked around by the Stop-Loss program, and two others who enlisted after the U. of Chicago found themselves trapped in endless deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq.
Later I worked for Bill Clinton and had a direct window right into the heart of government and power in the world; those people hold the military in utter contempt, and are quite cavalier about the suffering and pain they cause those soldiers and the devastation they visit upon the people the soldiers are pointed toward.
All that confirmed that I made the right decision, but I hadn't quite put it into words until you did just now. "Pawn of the elites," is exactly what today's military are.
Then again, aren't we all, now?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Saturday July 21 2018, @03:11PM (1 child)
it does annoy me (more than that, actually) to see human lives wasted and thrown away, due to the whims of the ultra rich and powerful.
it boils down to that.
let that sink in, people. stop giving your lives to richy rich. he would NOT do the same for you.
don't throw your life away for some dream that isn't real anymore.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday July 21 2018, @03:40PM
There are several facets to why this abuse continues. One is marketing. We techs can definitely kill that one, so let's.
Another one is material culture. Further to go on that one, but we've got some footholds with 3D printing and skill-sharing via platforms like YouTube and Instructables.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Saturday July 21 2018, @07:55PM (1 child)
How do I mod you " +1, actually put boots on the ground " ??
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @09:17PM
s/\+/-/
All he did was further the cause of the .01%. That's not a good thing. Make those wealthy pieces of shit fight their own resource wars. Let them send their own kids to die. We (as in all of humanity, not just the United States) would be far better off right now if cadet bone spurs had been killed in Vietnam.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:04PM
You are right, the government doesn't represent American interests anymore. They represent the global power elite. They have more in common with bankers in Brunei than they do with the people in Iowa who pay their salaries.
The tree of liberty will be watered, from the rumblings coming out of nearly every corner of civilization, but while that works itself out into the open, it is worth planning for the next iteration of human self-governance.
I say we owe it to ourselves and posterity to blue-sky it. Put it all down on paper and then do further passes to figure out implementation.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by ilPapa on Saturday July 21 2018, @06:47PM
Yeah, but it ends up getting watered by the blood of school children and people praying in black churches.
Maybe someone has been bullshitting you all along and there really isn't a "Tree of Liberty" that needs human blood to grow. Maybe liberty doesn't grow on trees at all.
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @02:35AM (3 children)
He has made sure that we can't hold a trial. There must be some reason. He could head over to the nearest US embassy, and I really doubt we'd just shoot him right there and then.
The issue of him being a US citizen seems pretty simple to resolve. We can take care of that. He is obviously not a very patriotic American. I doubt he files taxes with the IRS, as American citizens are required to do even when living elsewhere. We should just revoke his citizenship before we drone strike him.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday July 21 2018, @11:42AM
You don't need to surrender to US law enforcement to have a trial. People get tried in absentia all the time.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @12:19PM (1 child)
If there has been no trial then, under the constitution of the United States of America, there can be no execution.
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday July 22 2018, @01:34AM
Obama was a constitutional scholar -- one of the best. And he thought that the legal for his Kill List checked out. 100%. We're using the same legal. But, different names on the list now. @Rosie [twitter.com], are you listening?
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @03:37AM (5 children)
The most appalling part is the part NO ONE seems to be talking about.
This judge just straight up said that because the other guy seeking redress isn't an american citizen, that he has no constitutional rights.
WTF? These are human rights! They are not granted to us by the constitution. They are enumerated by the constitution and are unalienable, meaning you cannot be separated from them.
Our own declaration of independence says specifically this...
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness—That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @04:46AM (4 children)
I agree in principle, but honestly, is there even one single person left in all of humanity that could be trusted to enact a new form of government? What form of government would that be? Calling for revolution is a good start, but if nobody has any better ideas, we'll just end up worse than we are now. The problem is greed and the whole "me first", "sorry, not sorry" culture. If we can't even treat each other with the slightest bit of courtesy and respect, why should we expect it from a monolithic, faceless government or corporation. Change has to start with us. Otherwise, greedy, selfish, us will just come up with another greedy, selfish government.
Donmega
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday July 21 2018, @11:41AM (3 children)
I agree that we need to have a plan for what we do after a revolution (for some value of $revolution). A Soylentil the other day proposed a requirement for laws to have sunset conditions, and get automatically scrubbed from the books when they fail. It would take a lot of thinking through to figure out how that would work, exactly, but it's a good idea. It would eliminate a lot of cruft. I think laws should also have automatic logging to report which politician's cousin is getting rich from the sweetheart deal wrapped up in the fine print.
The Pirate Parties in Europe have had a number of good ideas, such as codifying the right to privacy, too, that we can all borrow from.
Can we engineers gather all those together, along with a desire to bring the principles of FLOSS to government, and craft a Constitution 2.0? (And, no, personally I don't want a lawyer within 1,000 miles of anything that involves that, or rules and regulations, because they are preternaturally evil.)
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday July 21 2018, @06:27PM (2 children)
The Constitution, which must include a clear and unambiguous right of the people to be armed, to use encryption, and to be free from unwarranted search and tracking, must have teeth. There must be real and significant punishments for those who act or legislate against it.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday July 21 2018, @07:16PM (1 child)
Noted.
Here's a handful of other good ideas I've gleaned from others in the last decade:
There should be a limit to how long anyone can work for government. 6-8 years feels about right. Long enough to learn the ropes, put in good, effective work, and mentor new-comers.
Government alumni are forbidden from working for any industry which fell under their regulatory purview, for a period of 15 years.
Washington, D.C., must be shut down. Government agencies must be distributed around the country. Careful consideration must be given to where agencies are relocated. Dept. of Agriculture would logically belong somewhere in the American Bottom. Dept. of the Interior would work well either somewhere on the Front Range or the Upper South. Dept. of Labor would make sense somewhere in the Rust Belt. Treasury, Commerce, SEC, and those must be put somewhere where the people have some damn sense, like Wyoming or Utah; they cannot be anywhere the schmucks they're regulating in New York or Chicago.
Politicians, as with other government employees, cannot serve longer than 8 years. No more career politicians.
Penalties for corruption in public servants must require supermax prison, with no possibility of parole. Corruption that results in deaths of, or significant harm to, citizens (like allowing lead poisoning in Flint, MI), must carry the death penalty; Penalty to be carried out in a suitable public square.
Government must mandate FLOSS in its own departments and with contractors that perform work for the government. Metrics, including cost, invoices, and all other relevant aspects of work, including clearance in the social graph to ensure there are no sweetheart deals, must be made available immediately in a central, universally accessible site, free of charge.
Companies found guilty of malfeasance, collusion, or other crimes shall be subjected to a corporate death penalty, with all assets seized to compensate victims, and officers of the corporation held personally liable for the decisions they make.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday July 21 2018, @07:23PM
Some things we disagree about. This is not one of them.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.