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posted by Fnord666 on Monday July 23 2018, @09:58AM   Printer-friendly
from the spacial-mesh dept.

This May, sleuths at IEEE Spectrum revealed something exciting -- Facebook appeared to be secrely working on an experimental satellite that could beam internet down to Earth using millimeter wave radio signals.

Now, Facebook has confirmed to Wired and CNET that the satellite, dubbed Athena, is indeed a Facebook project -- and that Facebook is a believer in satellite internet technology.

"While we have nothing to share about specific projects at this time, we believe satellite technology will be an important enabler of the next generation of broadband infrastructure, making it possible to bring broadband connectivity to rural regions where internet connectivity is lacking or non-existent," a Facebook spokesperson told CNET and Wired.

But Wired does have more to share about this specific project. Using a Freedom of Information Act request, Wired says it obtained emails from the FCC that reportedly show Facebook plans to launch the Athena satellite in early 2019. In space launch terms, that's coming up pretty dang fast.


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  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 23 2018, @10:03AM (1 child)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 23 2018, @10:03AM (#711124) Journal

    Millimeter wave radio spectrum? Does it move faster than light? Will it not lag like a three year old trying to keep up with Mommy at the mall?

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @01:53PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @01:53PM (#711212)

      Millimeter wave radio spectrum?

      What's wrong with that? Sure, these days we are more used to specification in frequencies; a wave length of 1 Millimeter corresponds to a frequency of 300 GHz. That's certainly enough for decent data rates.

      Does it move faster than light?

      Of course not. Nothing does.

      Will it not lag like a three year old trying to keep up with Mommy at the mall?

      Depends on the height. At the height of the ISS (about 300 km height), the lag will be two milliseconds (one up and one down), plus whatever time the satellite takes between receiving and sending, of course. Short enough for most applications.

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @10:09AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @10:09AM (#711126)

    Facebook plans to launch the Athena satellite

    Probably more than one, because low orbit needed for latency reaons, right? So, how many?

    On an unrelated note, this seems like a diversification maneuver, meaning Farcebook won't be dependant on their current business model being sustainable. Which is a shame, because it needs to die or be regulated back to the stone age already.

  • (Score: 1) by anubi on Monday July 23 2018, @10:44AM (2 children)

    by anubi (2828) on Monday July 23 2018, @10:44AM (#711146) Journal

    Isn't Hughesnet's Gen5 geosynchronous?

    I know they have a lot of latency... does anyone have any experience with them?

    Although its hard for me to think of anything that could possibly be worse than the experience I had with AT&T. The public WIFI offered at my local DelTaco ran rings around what I could get through my AT&T link.

    --
    "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
    • (Score: 5, Informative) by MindEscapes on Monday July 23 2018, @02:02PM (1 child)

      by MindEscapes (6751) on Monday July 23 2018, @02:02PM (#711216) Homepage

      I had Hughes Net Gen 5 for about 2 months.

      It behaved exactly as they claim, decent bandwidth, ~600ms roundtrip minimum latency due to geostationary positioning (speed of light limitations). Your request bounces off the server, hits their receiver station where it goes to a backbone, returns to their station and is bounced off the satellite back to you, the 600ms is round trip from you to base station and back. Additional latency is from station to destination and back to station.

      I was able to use Wordpress.com reasonably well, and played on Return of Reckoning (Warhammer online emulated server) but with those latency penalties. I was amazed that it actually was playable, just not competitively. We didn't try much streaming because of data caps but it supposedly does all right with streaming since it is lower interactivity.

      It does not work that well with sites that use a lot of AJAX scripting and constantly hit a server for everything as the high latency becomes very obvious so you have to be patient. My wife was very disappointed in it because patience
      with websites and computers in general does not come naturally to her.

      We found out we were able to get terrestrial based Fixed Point Wireless (think private WAN with cable uplink) which nets us ~80ms roundtrip latency with a 5Mbs bandwidth, unmetered data for 1/2 the price so it made better financial sense to cancel and pay the termination fee and also made us both happier with the experience.

      Satellite service is slightly cheaper than 4G Wireless for the amount of data you get per month (yes, data is metered) but the latency is considerably higher. If it is the only option, it is still light years ahead of dialup. Here would be my choice breakdown:

      If Fiber is available and reasonable - Y:done, N:continue
      If Cable is available and reasonable - Y:done, N:continue
      If DSL is available and reasonable - Y:done, N:continue
      If Fixed Point Wireless is available and reasonable - Y:done, N:continue
      If 4G is available - Y:done, N:continue *
      Satellite : done

      *I chose Satellite over 4G but regretted the decision, we would have had the same concerns about data with the 4G plan but the experience would have likely been better. You do get a good bit more metered data on satellite vs 4G due to the over night extra allotted data on Satellite but it had to be managed properly by you to utilize it. This all needs to be taken into consideration with pricing in your area and your own usage requirements.

      I hope this was helpful.

      --
      Need a break? mindescapes.net may be for you!
      • (Score: 1) by anubi on Tuesday July 24 2018, @05:36AM

        by anubi (2828) on Tuesday July 24 2018, @05:36AM (#711601) Journal

        Thanks! That gives me a lot more perspective in tradeoffs.

        The key words for me have been "reasonable" and "what I am getting".

        In the upper echelons, I have been getting a lot of "when bundled with something I don't want", "up-to", and "STARTING speed" ( whatever that is ), with the price including undefined variables. Many have nasty contracts I have to sign to even see if they will deliver, yet guarantee them severance fees if they fail to deliver and I want out.

        To me, its like buying an airline seat, but not knowing if they are oversold, and if they are, I am simply told no room for me... do I want to buy another ticket and hope for the next flight?

        --
        "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
  • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday July 23 2018, @10:49AM

    ... of product for Facebook's _real_ customers: its advertisers.

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by MostCynical on Monday July 23 2018, @11:12AM (16 children)

    by MostCynical (2589) on Monday July 23 2018, @11:12AM (#711161) Journal

    what does facebook do? Collect and disseminate information: aka Spy and sell
    What can you do better using satellites? Hmm.. Spy and sell.
    They may also use it for special internet of what-happened a-little-while-ago, but I bet it has more sensors and cameras and stuff that isn't strictly necessary for the stated purpose.

    --
    "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @11:29AM (11 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @11:29AM (#711167)

      Bit paranoid are we? I'm not saying Facebook isn't trying to collect as much information about everyone on the planet as possible, but why would they want to be able to look at your back yard? Watching your rusty grill slowly succumb to the elements doesn't seem like information worth selling.

      • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday July 23 2018, @11:38AM (1 child)

        by MostCynical (2589) on Monday July 23 2018, @11:38AM (#711171) Journal

        But they intend to use this to provide internet, as well, so become a full MITM packet inspection service, as well as nice pictures of your neighbourhood

        --
        "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @12:48PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @12:48PM (#711189)

          Given that providing continuous coverage while keeping radio round trip latency at reasonable levels requires a ring of - likely small - sats in a low orbit, it seems unlikely they'd be able to also stuff bulky and heavy high-res, high magnification imaging equipment into one...

          I'm too lazy to look up specs now, but conventional spy sats a la Keyhole are pretty bulky and heavy - and these don't also house high bandwidth, high gain radio/telco equipment.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Monday July 23 2018, @02:06PM (4 children)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 23 2018, @02:06PM (#711222) Journal

        > Bit paranoid are we?

        After Facebook, and after Snowden, that card no longer works. In fact, it should disqualify you from playing.

        --
        People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @02:22PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @02:22PM (#711232)

          Yeah tell me about it posting AC :) I'm not saying they're not out to get you, but you need to stay realistic and be paranoid where it counts. If Facebook wants to put optical sensors on these sats and use some fancy image stacking to obtain a resolution matching already available aerial/satellite imagery, good for them. They won't be able to offer anything the market doesn't already have though.

          There are images of your back yard being sold (as well as available freely on Google Maps and the like), so what's the scare again?

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @02:42PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @02:42PM (#711247)

            but you need to stay realistic and be paranoid where it counts.

            Of course, you are right, Troubles is, in the today's world, it counts everywhere/everytime.

            There are images of your back yard being sold (as well as available freely on Google Maps and the like), so what's the scare again?

            No scare. But it's my property and my backyard is not public - i they sell images of it, I want my share.

          • (Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday July 23 2018, @02:50PM (1 child)

            by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Monday July 23 2018, @02:50PM (#711252) Journal

            A real-time map of where their users are calling from, perhaps, and/or other correlation data. Doesn't have to be video.

            But let's keep drinking the monopoly Kool-Aid instead, in letting organizations become exa-corps. (If not in the literal sense of the word though I have my questions, definitely the Parker Brothers sense of the word. Now that I think about it, maybe I'd like some literal Kool-Aid too....)

            --
            This sig for rent.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @04:57PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @04:57PM (#711312)

              You're not getting real-time (or even video) feed from stacking some low-res images cropped out of panorama stills taken during consecutive passes by different sats. What you'll get is an image of the static landscape, minus moving objects because they will be disregarded as noise by the stacking algorithm.

              People using the Farcebook app probably already volunteer their precise GPS location (I have no idea since I'm not installing that on my phone), might as well just overlay that on a map based on existing carthographic material.

              Signal triangulation from a ring of low-orbiting (i.e. very fast) satellites might be something the NSA or CIA would be interested in, but they seem to be confident enough targeting their missiles based on the data regular cell towers combined with IMSI catcher-wielding drones give them.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday July 23 2018, @02:36PM (2 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 23 2018, @02:36PM (#711242) Journal

        I'm not saying Facebook isn't trying to collect as much information about everyone on the planet as possible, but why would they want to be able to look at your back yard?

        To make sure it is you that sends those packets?

        Watching your rusty grill slowly succumb to the elements doesn't seem like information worth selling.

        On the contrary. Expect more barbeque ads with you FB experience.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday July 23 2018, @07:18PM

          by bob_super (1357) on Monday July 23 2018, @07:18PM (#711399)

          I was gonna say that, but they don't need a sat pic of your backyard for that, since your friend, your SO, your neighbors, and occasionally you ... will post FB/instagram pics of said backyard, optionally with a comment about the crumbling grill.

          FB just needs to work on reaching more people who have little internet. The ones who already do have the app are self-sustaining and don't need much investment.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 24 2018, @10:35AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 24 2018, @10:35AM (#711660)

          Expect more barbeque ads with you FB experience.

          How dare you presume I have a FB experience.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 24 2018, @05:38AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 24 2018, @05:38AM (#711602)

        No, but your local city may be very interested if you put up a shed in your back yard, or re-did your patio, without pulling the proper permits and permission fees to do so.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 23 2018, @02:09PM (3 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 23 2018, @02:09PM (#711226) Journal

      I bet it has more sensors and cameras and stuff that isn't strictly necessary for the stated purpose.

      Facebook should focus on legalizing massive hoardes of drones instead. You can not only get better pictures of people's roofs, backyards, pools and bedrooms, but with suitable equipment are more likely to be capable of recording audio as well. In space nobody can hear a blue scream of death.

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
      • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Monday July 23 2018, @08:58PM (2 children)

        by acid andy (1683) on Monday July 23 2018, @08:58PM (#711434) Homepage Journal

        Facebook should focus on legalizing massive hoardes of drones instead.

        You spelt "shouldn't" wrong. I know you were probably being ironic but Facebook users probably won't know that and nor will Facebook's R&D.

        --
        If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 23 2018, @09:44PM (1 child)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 23 2018, @09:44PM (#711457) Journal

          Not to worry. Facebook's R&D has probably already thought of this idea and might even be working on it. I'm sure they won't be inspired by this post but rather by their ruthless drive to ensure that absolutely nothing in the world can be private.

          --
          People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 24 2018, @02:48PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 24 2018, @02:48PM (#711735)

            but rather by their ruthless drive to ensure that absolutely nothing in the world can be private.

            That's not accurate. Zuckerbergs own data, he certainly wants to keep private.

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by The Shire on Monday July 23 2018, @12:42PM

    by The Shire (5824) on Monday July 23 2018, @12:42PM (#711188)

    SpaceX has been working on this since 2015 and already launched two successful prototype satellites. It's called "Starlink" and production is already underway. Good luck competing with a company that builds their own satellites and has their own low cost launch platform.

    https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-internet-satellite-starlink-production-in-house/ [teslarati.com]

  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @02:06PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @02:06PM (#711223)

    "rural regions"

    No one gets away from the khazar jewish filth who are hell-bent on harming innocents. This and other satellites where kikes are involved must not be allowed to exist.

    People go to rural regions to get away from the filthy jews and their brainwashing attempts. And suddenly, jews are watching you no matter where you are! Their entire industries are based on spying and deception. They read your letters, your emails, your phone conversations and will go through your drawers if they could. That is how the jew gets away with murder. They are in your media, in your government, in your secret services. _DO_ something about that.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @02:38PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 23 2018, @02:38PM (#711246)

    Zuckerborg: There are great swaths of people who have not yet been assimilated because they can't connect to the internet. Fix that!

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