from the please-practice-pragmatic-paranoia dept.
Facebook wants banks to "share detail financial information about their customers, including card transactions and checking account balances". Summary article here, original paywalled WSJ article here, alternative link may avoid paywall.
Facebook says that "it wouldn't use bank data for ad-targeting purposes", and that they "don't have special relationships, partnerships, or contract with banks or credit-card companies to use their customers, purchase data for ads." You can just hear the missing word yet. In fact, later on the article specifically says "As part of the proposed deals, Facebook asked banks for information about where its users are shopping with their debit and credit cards".
Of course, the great mass of people will have no problem allowing Facebook into their financial lives...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 08 2018, @01:33AM (4 children)
So, I checked on my grand daughter's Facefuck page. Her status changed while I was looking from "Happy" to "Sally just bought a Super Large package of Trojan Ribbed Condoms at Walgreens".
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @01:40AM (2 children)
I've got to wonder if this is going to be another 'shadow profile' situation where they collect information even on non-users and the media focuses almost exclusively on the privacy of users. Because people who don't allow themselves to be used by Facebook don't exist.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Webweasel on Wednesday August 08 2018, @11:47AM (1 child)
Under GDPR, these should all be deleted now.
Not heard a word about it though.
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @09:31PM
No there's a clause called "legitimate interest". I read the terms and conditions of a financial / insurance company that state that due to their "legitimate interest" in marketing and product development, they will share customer information with selected companies such as Facebook (it even mentioned their advertising platform I think) and warned that they may in turn combine that with their own data they hold on the customer. So this is companies handing over private, personal data to Facebook without any explicit prior consent. GDPR is just bringing this sort of shit out in the open. It's criminal really because marketing and product development should only ever need to deal with aggregate statistics, not data on individuals.
(Score: 2) by Fnord666 on Wednesday August 08 2018, @01:42PM
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @01:34AM (13 children)
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday August 08 2018, @01:42AM (4 children)
Yeah, but have you tried Facebook's chicken [youtube.com]?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @03:49AM (3 children)
WTF had I started to watch there?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday August 08 2018, @04:21AM
Zuckerborg pretending to be human.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by RandomFactor on Wednesday August 08 2018, @08:48PM
There needs to be a +1 "I have this question too"
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @10:44PM
https://cravedfw.com/2016/10/10/we-went-to-zuckerbergs-for-a-bbq-sort-of/ [cravedfw.com]
https://www.eater.com/2016/10/10/13227568/mark-zuckerberg-barbecue-nerd [eater.com]
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @02:45AM (2 children)
Tone down the cynicism Gilroy.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @03:27AM (1 child)
How is it cynicism when it's happening right in front of our eyes?
(Score: 3, Funny) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday August 08 2018, @04:41PM
Who are you going to believe? Some random AC, or your lying eyes?
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by stretch611 on Wednesday August 08 2018, @07:36AM (3 children)
Just remember, when you think of how stupid the average person is... think a second more and realize that half the people are even worse.
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @09:06AM (1 child)
That being the case, you should also consider that you don't understand what a median average is or that 95% of scores on IQ tests are within two standard deviations.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @07:48PM
I want to know just how wide that standard deviation is. From what I've seen, I'd guess 20 points.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Friday August 10 2018, @08:58AM
Damn but I miss Carlin's cutting wit.
Nothing of that caliber left today unfortunately.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @08:30PM
I hate Facebook as much as the next person, but really? You can't see how somebody would prioritize a free, easy, and cheap way to stay in touch with others over something as abstract as privacy? ("Oh no! *THEY* might find out I need to buy a new oven, and then offer me discounts on an oven purchase.") I personally view privacy as more important than that, but I can see why people would choose otherwise.
More to the point, justifications that "they are not mentally capable of caring for themselves" is the exact same excuse which has been used to kidnap Native American children from their tribes, disallow women from owning property, keep black people enslaved, and numerous other reprehensible things.
Yes, some people are not capable of caring for themselves. We should be extremely careful in judging somebody to be mentally incompetent, though. I could imagine somebody else making the exact same argument that "nerds are too emotionally fragile and can't be allowed to see inflammatory content online" to censor the entire internet. Just because you don't agree with them is no reason to curtail their freedom to make mistakes.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by rigrig on Wednesday August 08 2018, @01:46AM (9 children)
I'm sure Facebook users will get a sincere apology once news gets out that Facebook broke its promise to keep their financial data private.
No one remembers the singer.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @04:59AM (6 children)
>>Facebook users
The technical term for that group of people is "dumb fucks."
(Score: 1, Troll) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Wednesday August 08 2018, @06:01AM (5 children)
And I use Facebook
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @07:00AM (2 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @07:57AM (1 child)
What it illustrates is that IQ has little to do with actual intelligence.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Wednesday August 08 2018, @09:09AM
My original reason was that my friends from high school, and even elementary school did not know how to use email. Cousin Chuck can code in FORTRAN, he has a Master's in Architecture from Harvard, was his high school class' Valedictorian but even so: he doesn't know how to use email.
More recently I've been using Facebook to flog my writing. I made the decision to do so when I found myself swamped with Friend Requests. Now I have 5,000 friends.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by rigrig on Wednesday August 08 2018, @12:30PM
Don't be offended, as AC said: it's just a technical term, even Mark uses it [businessinsider.com]
No one remembers the singer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 10 2018, @03:06AM
This from the guy who signs his posts with "My United States Social Security Number Is [redacted]."
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Pslytely Psycho on Wednesday August 08 2018, @07:00AM (1 child)
And I'm sure that Zuk's apology will be at least as "sincere" as Equifax's.
At least as sincere as "I'm sooo fucking sorry we got caught...."
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by rigrig on Wednesday August 08 2018, @12:33PM
Oh, definitely.
After all, practice makes perfect [thenewdaily.com.au].
No one remembers the singer.
(Score: 4, Informative) by captain normal on Wednesday August 08 2018, @01:55AM (6 children)
https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/6/17656212/facebook-us-banks-financial-services-card-transactions-shopping-habits-account-balance [theverge.com]
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-banks/facebook-asks-u-s-banks-for-financial-info-to-boost-user-engagement-wsj-idUSKBN1KR1KY [reuters.com]
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/facebook-wants-banks-to-share-your-personal-finances-report [foxbusiness.com]
https://www.inc.com/erik-sherman/as-facebook-gets-slammed-for-data-practices-it-wants-your-financial-info-from-banks.html [inc.com]
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/facebook-were-not-asking-for-financial-data-were-just-partnering-with-banks/ [arstechnica.com]
http://fortune.com/2018/08/06/facebook-banks-privacy-concerns/ [fortune.com]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6032457/Facebook-asks-U-S-banks-share-detailed-information-users-boost-Messenger-engagement.html [dailymail.co.uk]
Just a few of the "384,000,000 results" Google search.
Not one paywall in the bunch. Get the picture?
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @02:59AM (3 children)
When the fox eats the rabbit, the fox is re-appropriating the resources of the rabbit against the rabbit's will; clearly, this is not a voluntary trade, and thus this is not an example of capitalism. (And, please, let's not forget that capitalism is an iterative process; it doesn't matter that the current distribution of resources has a sordid history.)
The coercive relationship between these two entities (the fox and the rabbit) yields something like subsistence—exactly the kind of existence that humans lived for most of their history. Then two things happened:
Technological advancements allowed for handling the logistics of capitalism (e.g., negotiating contracts, resolving disputes, and enforcing contracts, all of which require logic and numeracy and measurement of value, etc.).
A philosophical codification of capitalism as part of the culture. (for instance, it doesn't matter that one man is born of a noble family, while another of a peasant family; what matters is that their interaction be governed by a framework of agreements in advance; the nobleman must purchase meat from the butcher.)
Despite the fact that both of these developments are still woefully primitive, the result has been the greatest unlocking of productivity (and thus the greatest accumulation of wealth) that this part of the Universe has ever seen.
Get it yet?
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @03:53AM (1 child)
Seems that your iterative process got stuck into a stinky local minimum and won't budge. Wanna kick to get it out? Like a revolution or sumtin'?
Get it yet?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday August 08 2018, @05:24PM
Unfortunately, that process usually ends up giving you something even worse.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @04:02AM
I like the fox and rabbit metaphor. Now we can get away from men and angels, since we've established that all forms of political organization, including anarchy, require angels to work correctly.
It's an exciting time for the humans.
Wew lad! Hahaha! Holy shit, I can't even.
I think what you're failing to understand is that humans still have a long way to go. In particular, you seem not to have figured out yet that humans are not post-scarcity. They have not quite yet evolved to socialism, and you want to rush them along to anarcho-capitalism? Democratized post-scarcity, as opposed to the post-scarcity of automated socialism, is required for anarcho-capitalism to work.
That's like xenosociology 101. I highly recommend X'khyrg.pav's lecture series.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by rigrig on Wednesday August 08 2018, @12:26PM
Those all refer to the WSJ article, so I'd say its fair to link tot he original source.
Maybe some people might decide it's worth actually paying journalists to investigate stuff, instead of simply regurgitating articles on a "free" site.
No one remembers the singer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @01:47PM
Not really. WTF is your point?
(Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Wednesday August 08 2018, @01:59AM
Must make it difficult for expats like Gates and Manafort, trying to hide all that foreign gotten gains.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday August 08 2018, @02:17AM (9 children)
I've heard it said you should never talk about religion or politics in polite conversation. Well, that's nothing on money. I wonder if Facebook will finally go too far with this one.
An impossible conversation: "Glad to meet you John. So, John, where do you bank and how much money do you have saved? Only $400 in a checking account? Don't you get a $5000 paycheck every month? Oh, it's only $3000, and the evil taxman keeps $1000 of it? My, my. Well, how much credit card debt do you have?"
People lie big time about money. Lot of people put on this huge facade to look as rich as they possibly can, by driving the big, expensive car, wearing expensive clothes, etc. And by trashing the environment as much as possible. And they watch horrors such as "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous", think having Brewster's Millions is the ultimate life, and dream of winning the lottery.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 08 2018, @02:37AM (7 children)
Exactly. Some of the most broke-assed people I know drive vehicles that I couldn't afford to drive. But, they can "afford it" by signing themselves further into debt.
I wonder - maybe I'll do a search tomorrow. How many Americans are "debt free"? Each week, the wife and I "pay bills" - meaning, electricity, water, trashman, insurance. Those are things which we don't "owe", but which we use, and each month we have to pay for what we have used.
Most people I hear talking about "paying bills" mean that a credit card payment is due (or overdue), the car payment, a mortgage payment, maybe a Rent to Own store payment - the list goes on and on.
And, once again, I have to point out that these people own nothing. The repo man can come and take any or all of "their" property if/when they fall behind in payments. Which is why we hear of so many riches to rags people living out of their cars - if they even keep their cars.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @04:09AM (3 children)
Debt is abstracted slavery.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @04:27AM
Amen brother.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @06:44PM
No. Debt is having to pay back the benefit you got in the past.
"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a cheeseburger today."
I see no fault in the burger salesman from demanding that money back on Tuesday. I likewise see no problem for the car salesman from reclaiming their car when the buyer stops paying for the lease (subject to some sanity checks, of course).
The only time debt is slavery is when there is an abusive system in place... and then it's the abusive system which is the problem and not the existence of debt. Don't demonize debt until you understand the very real good it does, in terms of doing things like starting new businesses.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday August 09 2018, @02:24AM
Debt acquired under duress, perhaps, but the duress was the root of the slavery, not the debt itself. Debt is just the medium through which prior slavery is propagated. Alas generally with negative attenuation.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by DavePolaschek on Wednesday August 08 2018, @01:36PM (2 children)
I have a neighbor who falls into that category. In six or seven years, she's on her fifth TV. Two were thrown in the trash with a boot-shaped dent in the screen, and two looked like they had been knocked over and had fallen to the floor (big cracks in the bezel). Nothing worth repossessing there. I sometimes wonder just how many TVs she's making payments on.
But then she clothes her kids by buying clothes at Goodwill, then when the clothes are dirty they get thrown in a pile in the basement. Cheaper than rent-to-own-ing a washer and dryer, I guess.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @05:44PM (1 child)
Color me skeptical but how in the hell do you have access to your neighbor's basement?!? Are you sure you are not doing a bit of projecting here?
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @10:19PM
Some people visit their neighbors once or twice a year
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @05:37PM
Actually, in my experience it's more like having one of those pop ups come onto your screen when you go to the website for your credit card company. The pop up tells you in a rather officious manner that they are "required by law" to inquire about your income; it is strongly implied that you are required to answer. The scofflaw that I am, I always close that pop up and continue on with my business. So far, the cops haven't come to arrest me. At least not yet. And the credit card company has yet to close down my account for refusing to comply. At least not yet.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by jdccdevel on Wednesday August 08 2018, @04:28AM (3 children)
I don't use Facebook, but if I found out that my bank was selling my account balance and/or transaction history to them or Google, I would change banks immediately.
Those organizations already have far to much information about everyone.
This is for the same reason why I don't use Google Pay, or any other "payment app" or bank app on my phone. My bank already knows too much about me as far as I'm concerned. Combine that with Google or Facebook's data on just about everyone, and that's beyond scary. Shadow Government, Conspiracy theory, Revolution kind of scary.
Some databases should never be joined together, it's just too dangerous.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @04:58AM
Some people have sulfur, some have potassium nitrate, and some have charcoal.
When they get together, they can wreak some real havoc.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Wednesday August 08 2018, @09:41PM (1 child)
And if and when it emerges one day that all the banks are doing it? What then? Cash only? Don't they want to force us into a cashless society?
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday August 09 2018, @02:33AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @06:11AM
Just kidding, not going for the early Godwin. But don't rejoice just yet for my message is worse than Hitler.
I'm convinced that when (not if) a malevolent strong AI pops up, it will be in the bowels of either
This is just another piece of the puzzle. If Facebook knows how much cash you have, when and how you spend it, they can greatly refine their targeting. Also they'll be able to blackmail you if they notice you've not being paying enough taxes, or gambling for money, or giving money to the wrong political cause...
I'd rather have Hitler back.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Wednesday August 08 2018, @07:37AM (1 child)
Well, if Facebook does not use that data for ad-targeting purposes, then what else does it use the data for?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 08 2018, @05:47PM
Yes, that is the question. I suspect no one--well, except for maybe The Zuck, I guess--is going to like the answer to that.