Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by chromas on Saturday August 25 2018, @01:53AM   Printer-friendly
from the cointelgo dept.

Intel reportedly convinced Microsoft not to choose ARM for Surface Go

Microsoft launched its new Surface Go device earlier this month with an Intel Pentium Gold processor inside. It's been one of the main focus points for discussions around performance and mobility for this 10-inch Surface, and lots of people have wondered why Microsoft didn't opt for Qualcomm's Snapdragon processors and Windows on ARM. Paul Thurrott reports that Microsoft wanted to use an ARM processor for the Surface Go, but that Intel intervened.

Intel reportedly "petitioned Microsoft heavily" to use its Pentium Gold processors instead of ARM ones. It's not clear why Microsoft didn't push ahead with its ARM plans for Surface Go, but in my own experience the latest Snapdragon chips simply don't have the performance and compatibility to match Intel on laptops just yet. Microsoft has been working hard to improve this though, despite Intel's threats it would sue competitors like Qualcomm if they attempt to emulate Intel's x86 instruction set architecture.

Wintel looms large.

Previously: The Surface Go Reviews Are In, and... They're a Bit All Over the Place

Related: Intel Hints at Patent Fight With Microsoft and Qualcomm Over x86 Emulation
First ARM Snapdragon-Based Windows 10 S Systems Announced
Snapdragon 1000 ARM SoC Could Compete With Low-Power Intel Chips in Laptops
ARM Aims to Match Intel 15-Watt Laptop CPU Performance


Original Submission

Related Stories

Intel Hints at Patent Fight With Microsoft and Qualcomm Over x86 Emulation 23 comments

Intel may be planning to sue Microsoft for its plans to include x86 emulation in Windows 10 for ARM machines:

In celebrating the x86 architecture's 39th birthday yesterday—the 8086 processor first came to market on June 8, 1978—Intel took the rather uncelebratory step of threatening any company working on x86 emulator technology.

[...] The post doesn't name any names, but it's not too hard to figure out who it's likely to be aimed at: Microsoft, perhaps with a hint of Qualcomm. Later in the year, companies including Asus, HP, and Lenovo will be releasing Windows laptops using Qualcomm's Snapdragon 835 processor. This is not the first time that Windows has been released on ARM processors—Microsoft's first attempt to bring Windows to ARM was the ill-fated Windows 8-era Windows RT in 2012—but this time around there's a key difference. Windows RT systems could not run any x86 applications. Windows 10 for ARM machines, however, will include a software-based x86 emulator that will provide compatibility with most or all 32-bit x86 applications.

This compatibility makes these ARM-based machines a threat to Intel in a way that Windows RT never was; if WinARM can run Wintel software but still offer lower prices, better battery life, lower weight, or similar, Intel's dominance of the laptop space is no longer assured. The implication of Intel's post is that the chip giant isn't just going to be relying on technology to secure its position in this space, but the legal system, too.

Also at ZDNet and CRN.


Original Submission

First ARM Snapdragon-Based Windows 10 S Systems Announced 15 comments

Microsoft Windows is back on ARM:

Just shy of a year after announcing that Windows was once again going to be available on ARM systems, the first two systems were announced today: the Asus NovaGo 2-in-1 laptop, and the HP Envy x2 tablet.

[...] The Asus laptop boasts 22 hours of battery life or 30 days of standby, along with LTE that can run at gigabit speeds. HP's tablet offers a 12.3 inch, 1920×1280 screen, 20 hours battery life or 29 days of standby, and a removable keyboard-cover and stylus. Both systems use the Snapdragon 835 processor and X16 LTE modem, with HP offering up to 8GB RAM and 256GB storage to go with it.

Lenovo is expected to announce a similar system in the coming weeks.

Also at The Verge, Engadget, and TechCrunch.

Previously: Big Changes Planned by Microsoft - Windows 10 on ARM, Laptops to Behave More Like Phones
Windows 10 PCs Running on Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 to Arrive this Year
New Windows 10 S Only Runs Software From Windows Store
Microsoft Knows Windows is Obsolete. Here's a Sneak Peek at Its Replacement.
New App Allows Win32 Software to Run on Windows 10 S
Intel Hints at Patent Fight With Microsoft and Qualcomm Over x86 Emulation


Original Submission

Snapdragon 1000 ARM SoC Could Compete With Low-Power Intel Chips in Laptops 17 comments

'Snapdragon 1000' chip may be designed for PCs from the ground up

Qualcomm's Snapdragon 850 processor may be intended for PCs, but it's still a half step -- it's really a higher-clocked version of the same processor you'd find in your phone. The company may be more adventurous the next time, though. WinFuture says it has obtained details surrounding SDM1000 (possibly Snapdragon 1000), a previously hinted-at CPU that would be designed from the start for PCs. It would have a relatively huge design compared to most ARM designs (20mm x 15mm) and would consume a laptop-like 12W of power across the entire system-on-a-chip. It would compete directly with Intel's low-power Core processors where the existing 835 isn't really in the ballpark.

By comparison, the Snapdragon 850 has a maximum TDP of just 6.5 Watts.

A reference design for the chip includes 16 GB of LPDDR4X memory, 2 × 128 GB of UFS 2.1 internal storage, and Gigabit WLAN.

See also: Snapdragon-based Chromebook could rival always-connected PCs

Related: Windows 10 PCs Running on Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 to Arrive this Year
First ARM Snapdragon-Based Windows 10 S Systems Announced
Snapdragon 845 Announced
Qualcomm's new Snapdragon 850 processor will arrive in Windows PCs this year


Original Submission

The Surface Go Reviews Are In, and… They're a Bit All Over the Place 15 comments

Submitted via IRC for BoyceMagooglyMonkey

Surface Go—Microsoft's 10-inch, $399 tablet—launches today in 25 markets. Many publications around the Web have had a couple of days to review Microsoft's latest attempt at a cheap(ish) computer, and opinions are surprisingly varied.

Surface Go is a shrunk-down version of the Surface Pro, Microsoft's kickstand-equipped two-in-one tablet/laptop. It has a smaller screen (10-inches, 1800×1200), a weaker processor (an Intel Pentium Gold 4415Y, which is a two-core, four-thread Kaby Lake chip that was launched about 18 months ago), slower and smaller storage (64GB, using an eMMC interface), and reduced battery life (estimated at 9 hours). But it's cheaper. A lot cheaper: the base model is just $399, compared to $799 for the base Surface Pro.

[...] One thing almost every review agrees on is that the Go's processor is slow. The Pentium 4415Y is a 6W processor running at 1.6GHz (with no turbo boosting). As with other Intel chips, that power draw is configurable, and Microsoft has apparently cut it to 4.5W. It should still hit 1.6GHz, but the tighter power envelope means that it will cut back its speed even more aggressively to keep within its thermal budget.

ARM Aims to Match Intel 15-Watt Laptop CPU Performance 12 comments

Arm Unveils Client CPU Performance Roadmap Through 2020 - Taking Intel Head On

Today's roadmap now publicly discloses the codenames of the next two generations of CPU cores following the A76 – Deimos and Hercules. Both future cores are based on the new A76 micro-architecture and will introduce respective evolutionary refinements and incremental updates for the Austin cores.

The A76 being a 2018 product – and we should be hearing more on the first commercial devices on 7nm towards the end of the year and coming months, Deimos is its 2019 successor aiming at more wide-spread 7nm adoption. Hercules is said to be the next iteration of the microarchitecture for 2020 products and the first 5nm implementations. This is as far as Arm is willing to project in the future for today's disclosure, as the Sophia team is working on the next big microarchitecture push, which I suspect will be the successor to Hercules in 2021.

Part of today's announcement is Arm's reiteration of the performance and power goals of the A76 against competing platforms from Intel. The measurement metric today was the performance of a SPECint2006 Speed run under Linux while complied under GCC7. The power metrics represent the whole SoC "TDP", meaning CPU, interconnect and memory controllers – essentially the active platform power much in a similar way we've been representing smartphone mobile power in recent mobile deep-dive articles.

Here a Cortex A76 based system running at up to 3GHz is said to match the single-thread performance of an Intel Core i5-7300U running at its maximum 3.5GHz turbo operating speed, all while doing it within a TDP of less than 5W, versus "15W" for the Intel system. I'm not too happy with the power presentation done here by Arm as we kind of have an apples-and-oranges comparison; the Arm estimates here are meant to represent actual power consumption under the single-threaded SPEC workload while the Intel figures are the official TDP figures of the SKU – which obviously don't directly apply to this scenario.

Also at TechCrunch.

See also: Arm Maps Out Attack on Intel Core i5
ARM's First Client PC Roadmap Makes Bold Claims, Doesn't Back Them Up
ARM says its next processors will outperform Intel laptop chips

Related: ARM Based Laptop DIY Kit Ready to Hit the Shops
First ARM Snapdragon-Based Windows 10 S Systems Announced
Laptop and Phone Convergence at CES
Snapdragon 1000 ARM SoC Could Compete With Low-Power Intel Chips in Laptops


Original Submission

Qualcomm Announces Snapdragon 8cx, an ARM Chip Intended for Laptops 17 comments

Qualcomm announces the Snapdragon 8cx, an 'extreme' processor for Windows laptops

The "X" stands for "extreme." That's what Qualcomm's marketing department wants you to think about the new eight-core Snapdragon 8cx.

It's a brand-new processor for always-connected Windows laptops and 2-in-1 convertible PCs, and from Qualcomm's perspective, it might seem a little extreme. Physically, it's the largest processor the company has ever made, with the most powerful CPU and GPU Qualcomm has devised yet. Qualcomm says it'll be the first 7nm chip for a PC platform, beating a struggling Intel to the punch, and the biggest performance leap for a Snapdragon ever. The company's promising "amazing battery life," and up to 2Gbps cellular connectivity.

The TDP is 7 Watts, and the chip supports up to 16GB of LPDDR4x RAM.

Previously, a "Snapdragon 1000" for laptops was said to be in the works, but with a 12 Watt TDP.

See also: Firefox running on a Qualcomm 8cx-powered PC feels surprisingly decent

Previously: First ARM Snapdragon-Based Windows 10 S Systems Announced
Snapdragon 845 Announced
ARM Aims to Match Intel 15-Watt Laptop CPU Performance
Intel Reportedly "Petitioned Microsoft Heavily" to Use x86 Instead of ARM Chips in Surface Go


Original Submission

"Windows Lite" Could be Used on Dual-Screen Devices and Chromebook Competitors 31 comments

Microsoft is creating Windows Lite for dual-screen and Chromebook-like devices

Microsoft is preparing a new lightweight version of Windows for dual-screen devices and Chromebook competitors. Sources familiar with Microsoft's plans tell The Verge that the software maker is stripping back its Windows user interface with dual screens in mind. This new hardware could launch as early as later this year, depending on chip and PC maker readiness.

"Windows Lite," as it's codenamed internally, is a more stripped-down version of Windows that is initially being prioritized for dual-screen devices. Intel has been pushing OEMs to create this new hardware category, and machines could appear much like Microsoft's Courier concept, dual-screen laptops, or even foldable displays in the future. Either way, Microsoft wants Windows to be ready for PC makers to take advantage of it.

Previously: Microsoft Reportedly Building a Chromium-Based Web Browser to Replace Edge, and "Windows Lite" OS

Related: Intel Reportedly "Petitioned Microsoft Heavily" to Use x86 Instead of ARM Chips in Surface Go
Qualcomm Announces Snapdragon 8cx, an ARM Chip Intended for Laptops


Original Submission

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
  • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Saturday August 25 2018, @02:05AM (2 children)

    by bzipitidoo (4388) on Saturday August 25 2018, @02:05AM (#726115) Journal

    Considering M$'s long, sordid history of bribing governments (*cough* Munich *cough*) and other dirty pool to get them to switch back to M$ every time they venture to try open source, why wouldn't they be totally venal about propositions from other large corporations that they don't see as direct competitors?

    If they were direct competitors, M$ would try to cut their throats of course.

    • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Saturday August 25 2018, @03:36AM (1 child)

      by MostCynical (2589) on Saturday August 25 2018, @03:36AM (#726135) Journal

      At a certain point "discounts" turn products into "loss leaders" and "loss leaders" turn into plain losses.

      Are Intel's reserves deep enough to beat the competition without hurting themselves too badly (not that Microsoft cares)

      --
      "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @02:26AM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @02:26AM (#726123)

    Film at 11.

    • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday August 25 2018, @03:27AM (3 children)

      by Gaaark (41) on Saturday August 25 2018, @03:27AM (#726131) Journal

      Bring popcorn.

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday August 25 2018, @03:30AM (2 children)

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday August 25 2018, @03:30AM (#726132) Homepage

        The JEWS are doing it.

        " Please scan the asteroid field for me, Lieutenant, and report.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @05:43PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @05:43PM (#726269)

          The stupid is strong in this one.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @07:31PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @07:31PM (#726319)

            But, Intel develops and manufacturers most of the x86 in Israel so it really is "the JEWS" who are doing it... No? :D

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @05:52AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @05:52AM (#726153)

    I thought it was INTEL trying to woo Microsoft...

    Looks to me like INTEL crapped their pants big time with what looks to me like a botched backdoor, which INTEL apparently put in to make some post-sale control freaks happy.

    And now they are trying to shuff the mess into Microsoft's lap.

    Will Microsoft adopt a known bag-o-bugs into their empire and build on it?

    Looks like they will.

    Ahhh... the Art of Salesmanship!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @01:34PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @01:34PM (#726227)

      to be fair all modern mainstream chipsets have bugs and trash in them due to the sheer over-complexity. Sometimes you just have to pick the lesser of bad and dont get a 'good' choice.. And often times picking the oldest and largest player in the field is that choice.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @08:29AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @08:29AM (#726175)

    Seems to me like the purchasing guy got laid along with a nice fat bag of unmarked $100 notes.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @05:36PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @05:36PM (#726268)

      Seems to me like the purchasing guy got laid along with a nice fat bag of unmarked $100 notes.

      Fat whores are usually cheaper than $100 per wallowing.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @01:29PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @01:29PM (#726226)

    You mean bribed and threatened.

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @09:42PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @09:42PM (#726362)

    "Begging" MS is nothing compared to damaging third parties like the the full Linux ecosystem to avoid any ARM progress.

    https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/software/general-linux-open-source/1042503-why-linux-s-direct-rendering-manager-won-t-add-a-generic-2d-acceleration-api?p=1042596#post1042596 [phoronix.com] :

    Originally posted by willmore
    Intel doesn't want ARM chips to benefit from such an interface so their people do all they can to block it. That's the missing summary of the story.

    Pretty much. Mind you, blitting is horrible even for just drawing text compared to graphics cores so it's really only there for hardware that doesn't have graphics at all. Everyone else would be even better off with using a 3d game engine to draw widgets. Blitting is really that bad.

    https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/software/general-linux-open-source/1042503-why-linux-s-direct-rendering-manager-won-t-add-a-generic-2d-acceleration-api?p=1042685#post1042685 [phoronix.com] :

    Originally posted by starshipeleven
    This is bullshit. All ARM devices with monitor/screen connections have a 3D GPU of some kind.

    It's what I've heard from many different ARM SoC developers for a long time. These chips have separate 2D engines--mostly for historical reasons. But they are functional as we've had code to drive them for years. But, there has been a specific resistance to adding a generic 2D API to the DRM and that resistance has come from Intel.

    The people who keep saying "just use the 3D engine" are missing the point. The 3D engines are always poorly documented and their support is marginal at best. The 2D engine support is mature and only lacking a common API to be made better use of. The 2D support we're looking at isn't anything fancy, it's simple blits for scrolling the screen, drawing text boxes, drawing glyphs with color space expansion, etc.

    So the rumor says Intel do everything they can to fuck up Linux if they don't benefit. I knew where their asshole level reached doing 3D their own way instead of Gallium... but telling others what to do with DRM, is a new level.

    With vendor support like this, you start to wonder if no support was better, at least there was real freedom to do whatever was best for the OS as a whole. Maybe Intel should be billed the carbon credits too.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26 2018, @01:48PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26 2018, @01:48PM (#726544)

    Can't anyone build a chip for the emulate Intel's x86 instruction set?

(1)