Volkswagen is reversing course on the use of controversial weather-altering technology at a major Mexican car plant after local farmers complained that the system caused drought by preventing rainfall.
The German carmaker had installed hail cannons, which fire shockwaves into the atmosphere, at its Puebla site to prevent the formation of ice stones that had been damaging finished vehicles parked outside its facility.
But local farmers said the devices, which were set to fire automatically under certain weather conditions, caused a drought during the months that should have been Mexico’s rainy season.
Gerardo Perez, a farmers’ representative in the area, told the AFP agency that the cannons meant the “sky literally clears and it simply doesn’t rain”.
A group of local farmers claimed that 2,000 hectares (5,000 acres) of crops were affected, and filed a suit claiming 70 million pesos (€3.2m) in damages from the carmaker, AFP reported.
In response, VW said it would install netting above the cars to protect them from hailstorms in the future.
[...] The carmaker invested in the hail cannon technology to prevent damage to its vehicles earlier this year.
[...] Hail storms present significant problems for car manufacturers, which often have large numbers of finished vehicles parked outside at distribution centres or plants.
Also at UPI, C|Net, MSN, and Business Insider:
Instead of using smoke or projectiles, modern hail cannons — like those used at the Puebla Volkswagen plant — rely on loud shockwaves, fired repeatedly every few seconds as a storm approaches.
"This shockwave, clearly audible as a large whistling sound, then travels at the speed of sound into & through the cloud formations above, disrupting the growth phase of the hailstones," the manufacturer wrote.
Winemakers and auto manufacturers make use of the cannons to try to protect their valuable goods. In 2007, a California NPR station reported that winemakers were using the cannons to try to prevent hail formation.
[...] But still, no one knows if the cannons actually work.
"Scientists say there is no way to prove if these cannons really work, but farmers say it is cheaper to try the cannons than to buy hail insurance," reported NPR, in that story.
"There's no evidence that they actually do anything," meteorologist Harold Brooks of the National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration's Severe Storms Laboratory told Automotive News in 2005. "It may be possible. But if they really do something, they're doing it through some unknown science that we don't know about."
Skeptics have also pointed out that like hail cannons, thunder produces loud shockwaves — but hail shows up anyway.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 24 2018, @11:39PM (13 children)
That is the question
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday August 24 2018, @11:46PM (4 children)
Mexicans are still barking at the moon and praying to Santa Putita for their good fortune. Basic statistics is to them as warp-drive travel is to us.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 24 2018, @11:57PM
So long as liberals can buy their narcotics and nazi mobiles, I doubt they care about Mexican farmers. Ein volk ein reich ein KFC. [kansascity.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @02:06AM
Oh look, Dickbutt is back.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Gaaark on Saturday August 25 2018, @03:31AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o8_f3kJOX_8 [youtube.com]
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @05:45PM
So much stupid in so few words. Bravo!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by c0lo on Saturday August 25 2018, @01:27AM (6 children)
Country-side East Europe/Russia, they still ring the bells in churches [wikipedia.org] to suppress hail.
Correlation or causation, there is something there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @05:35AM (5 children)
But is there any evidence of it having an effect in the first place? Otherwise that "something" may just be superstition.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @06:10AM (4 children)
With all the public weather information regarding weather patterns, and where military bases are that routinely have military exercises going on involving jets that break the sound barrier, there should be plenty of data available to correlate "sonic booms" with lack of rain.
I state that because my childhood was close to Eglin Air Force Base near Shalimar, Florida.... On the coast between Pensacola and Panama City.
Had sonic booms all the time. Lots of rain, too.
But, it would take some statistics studies to get to the root of it.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Saturday August 25 2018, @07:31AM (3 children)
FTFY - given that the cited deals with the "hail suppression and prevention".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @08:41AM (2 children)
Thanks. Well, I never saw it hail! It must have worked!
( But then, how much hail has been seen anywhere in Florida? )
But what I was trying to get at is did the sonic booms deter rain like the farmers are claiming VW's booming did for them?
Maybe do some statistical studies to see if Disneyland ( and their nightly fireworks shows ) affects the local weather? My own gut feeling is if they did anything, they would increase the rain, due to seeding, but a mixed blessing because the seedstock is oxides of heavy metals left over from making the fireworks so colorful. But then, the fireworks probably aren't going near high up enough to do anything anyhow.
When I saw this story, my impression is a tempest in a teapot, as I have a hard time believing the booming is capable of either of the results attributed to it. I would have a much easier time believing the farmers claiming their cows don't get rest and are too worked up to give a good pail of milk. I know my animals go beserk on fireworks holidays. My cat simply disappears, and its about two days later I see her again.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Saturday August 25 2018, @10:08AM
It is not impossible.
For the moment, there's not enough studies of what happens in large spaces under natural conditions.
The problem of fog droplet stability was approached quite a good way back (Maxwell, if my memory serves), with limited (due to the need of control) spaces being used experimentally even today [google.com].
If my memory serves, the rate of a droplet evaporation is inverse proportional with the square of its radius - the smaller the drop the faster will evaporate. And the square law is true for condensation conditions - the larger the condensation area, the more condensation.
Leads to an interesting phenomenon around the vapour saturation state in which large drops tend to favour condensation, while small droplets tend to evaporate. Theoretically, fog can only form if seeded - dust, electrical charges (e.g, ionisation from natural radiation), presence of hygroscopic substances (acids, nitrogen oxides), etc - that's my memory of one thermodynamics lesson in my Uni time.
Now, imagine a situation in which rain is barely "willing" to form - close to, just barely over, water vapor saturation point, flat winds, etc. - and you throw some non-negligible sound energy into it by the use of canons. What's you feeling that energy will do to the temperature around cloud formation zone?
Would this be easy to prove under natural conditions? I really don't thinks so.
Is it possible to happen? If the conditions are right, I think it can happen that the use of a sound cannon to disperse a "reluctantly forming rain". Certainly, it won't disperse a heavy rain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday August 25 2018, @11:49AM
Theory of heat - JC Maxwell [archive.org]
See PDF page 313 - book page 293.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MostCynical on Saturday August 25 2018, @02:28AM
$50,000 each. That's causation!
https://www.winespectator.com/drvinny/show/id/50271 [winespectator.com]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday August 24 2018, @11:53PM (7 children)
VW uses sonic cannon not proven to prevent hail formation.
Farmers sue VW over unproven connection between sonic cannon and drought.
Sounds fair.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 24 2018, @11:59PM (3 children)
I was wondering about this, how is the cannon even supposed to work? Anybody?
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @12:26AM (1 child)
This is how it works:
* load midgets into the cannons.
* shoot the midgets into the clouds.
* the clouds, being afraid of midgets, disburse.
* no clouds means no hail.
Clouds are also afraid of clowns, but clowns are too big and not very aerodynamic (I blame their shoes).
(Score: 3, Touché) by Gaaark on Saturday August 25 2018, @03:34AM
Hey! You! Get off of my clown!
--Rolling Clones
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Saturday August 25 2018, @01:49AM
Expensive, loud, and no hail since they started using them. Don't inspect the woo!
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-01/vineyard-bird-scaring-devices-too-noisy-for-residents/8314022 [abc.net.au]
As a bonus, they keep the birds away.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday August 25 2018, @01:32AM
That is, if you consider a whistling sound fair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 4, Funny) by Gaaark on Saturday August 25 2018, @03:42AM
VW's lawyers say cannon doesn't work and lawsuit is frivolous...it's just used for...errr....sending "Ooops I did it again" to aliens, not for, you know, weather control. That's silly.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @02:11PM
“sky literally clears and it simply doesn’t rain”
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Whoever on Saturday August 25 2018, @12:02AM (1 child)
They obviously got the "Orgone Energy" [wikipedia.org] flowing the wrong way!
(Score: 1) by maggotbrain on Saturday August 25 2018, @07:55AM
Wilhem Reich would have been very disappointed. I visited his museum in Rangeley, Maine back in '92 and had a picture of me 'operating' one of his cloudbusting gizmos. He was a very interesting character. He may have been a bit of a kook; but, it's a travesty that the U.S. government decided to imprison him and burn his books.
(Score: 4, Funny) by bob_super on Saturday August 25 2018, @12:33AM
Germans deploy cannons to foreign country with great efficiency, and apparently instantly attain their goals.
Locals not delighted.
News at 11.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @01:32AM
I wonder if that NOAA guy knows Dick Cheney ?
Or, perhaps he moonlights at the Department of Redundancy Department.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @02:13AM (1 child)
Woooo! Weather war!
Alternatively: too bad the post office isn't as efficient as the weather service!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @02:37PM
But they are. They predict what may happen with your package, and yet say there's nothing they can do if it doesn't turn out the way they predicted.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @05:00AM (3 children)
Well, they could try Cloud Seeding [wikipedia.org] instead. It is well proven in several parts of the world and it doesn't prevent rain, only reduces the chances of hail forming in the clouds.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 25 2018, @06:14AM (1 child)
Isn't it kinda a certainity that when the air cools beyond a certain point, the water WILL drop out?
When nature's gotta pee, its gotta pee!
Looks to me like our only choice is whether we can encourage it to come down in little droplets instead of hail.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26 2018, @08:29AM
Solids do transmit sound waves better than gases or liquids. Could be that the focused vibrations from the cannons either shatter the hail, causing it to evaporate or fall as rain, or maybe they disturb the crystallization process enough that ice can't form in the first place. Maybe when the sound waves transition between the different layers in a hailstone, it blows it apart, or heats it up. Any number of things could be happening. Not enough data yet. Might as well say it summoms unicorns who fart on all the hailstones and melt them.
(Score: 1) by Blymie on Saturday August 25 2018, @10:49AM
That could be just as bad. Too much rain, or even too many clouds without rain (partial success), can lead to crop failure as well.
Crops can't mature, are smaller, if there isn't enough sun.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by rleigh on Saturday August 25 2018, @06:52AM
Rather than alter the weather, wouldn't it have been simpler and cheaper to have installed netting or plastic sheeting over the cars in the first place?