takyon: Florence is currently expected to make landfall in North Carolina during the early morning or afternoon on Friday. There have been mandatory evacuation orders, but they may be widely ignored.
A category 2 (formerly category 4) hurricane named "Florence" is heading for the eastern coast of the US. This being around the midpoint of the hurricane season, that's not unusual. This hurricane is, however, expected to make landfall much further north than is usual: near the border between the states of North Carolina and South Carolina. As you may recall, Hurricane Harvey devastated Houston, Texas last year with many areas receiving over 40 inches of rain (peak total was 60 inches) over a four-day period. Florence is similar in that there is a high pressure ridge just north of the point of landfall. It is anticipated that this will keep Florence part way over the ocean (picking up additional moisture) and part way over land (dumping copious amounts of rain).
Hurricanes cause damage in three ways: wind damage, storm surge, and rain (flooding).
Let's start with the wind. Recent readings (according to Wikipedia): sustained winds 110 knots (120 mph; 205 km/h) (1-min mean) gusting to 140 knots (150 mph; 250 km/h). (Aerodynamic drag is proportional to the square of the wind velocity. Stick your arm straight out the window of a vehicle travelling at 60 mph. Now take that force and double it. And then double it again. Now imagine that force being applied against something the size of a building. Widespread structural damage is likely.
Next, there's the Storm Surge which "is produced by water being pushed toward the shore by the force of the winds moving cyclonically around the storm." This would be above and beyond the normal tides for the area. For this storm, Scientists say Hurricane Florence could produce historic storm surge of up to 20 feet (~12 meters). To provide some perspective, tides around Myrtle Beach (near the northern-most part of South Carolina) usually has tides of up to 2.5 feet (0.75 meters). In short, flooding at the coast will be of historic proportions.
And then on to the rain. Expected rainfall totals over a period of four days generally range up to 20 inches — with 30 inches being possible in isolated locations. The general area has already had steady rains over recent weeks saturating the soil. Most of the rainfall will, therefore, not be absorbed by the soil but will instead just run downstream. In the mountains and hills away from the coast are a great many valleys which will further funnel the water and produce major flooding. It gets worse. Tree roots in waterlogged soil will likely give way under the onslaught of the rain and wind; many of which will fall on power lines. Power outages of several days or even over a week can be expected. Temperatures in the area vary around 70-90°F (21-32°C) so expect much food spoilage when refrigerators stop running.
Further complicating things, Hurricane Florence's risks include toxic sludge and lagoons of pig manure. In 2014, about 39,000 tons of coal ash spilled in from a pond near Eden, North Carolina. As of August 2017, Duke Energy had 31 coal ash basins in North Carolina which contained about 111 million tons of coal ash, a byproduct of burning coal to generate electricity. It contains metals including arsenic, chromium, and mercury. The extreme rainfall could cause some ash ponds to overflow and send their toxic waste downstream.
North Carolina is a top producer of turkey, chicken, and hogs. More than 10 billion pounds of wet animal waste is produced annually in the state and is held in lagoons because it's generally considered a safe way to store the manure before it's used to aid crops. Though most lagoons will likely survive the storm intact, there will certainly be some which overflow sending their "aromatic essence" downstream.
Links:
National Hurricane Center
NYT: Hurricane Florence's Path: Category 2 Storm Closes In on Carolina Coast
Ars Technica 2018-09-13: Florence is now “only” a Category 2 hurricane. That won’t matter much
Ars Technica 2018-09-12: The Hurricane Florence forecast has gone from bad to worse
Ars Technica 2018-09-10: Hurricane Florence represents a grave threat to the East Coast
CBS News: Hurricane Florence closes in on Carolinas, Virginia – live updates
Washington Post Hurricane Florence charges toward Carolinas with ‘potential for unbelievable damage’
Wikipedia entry on Hurricane Florence
GOES-East Satellite Loop
Earth.nullschool.net: earth :: a global map of wind, weather, and ocean conditions
Related Stories
Florence bringing 'catastrophic' flooding, mudslides deep into North Carolina
Rivers approached record flood stage and more than 680,000 utility customers were without power Sunday as North Carolina struggled under the crushing fury of Florence, the mighty hurricane diminished to a tropical depression but still pounding the region with unrelenting rain.
The Florence death toll rose to 14 Sunday after a truck lost control on a flooded South Carolina.
Florence has stalled over the Carolinas and was forecast to dump up to 10 more inches of rain in some areas, the National Hurricane Center said. Parts of southeastern North Carolina could see up to 40 inches before the rain ends Monday. And the damage isn't confined to the coast.
"These rainfall amounts will produce catastrophic flash flooding, prolonged significant river flooding and an elevated risk for landslides in western North Carolina and far southwest Virginia," the hurricane center warned.
Sections of two interstates, I-40 and I-95, were shut down due to flooding and debris. Several rivers were approaching record levels, and officials warned that cresting in some areas won't come until later in the week.
Previously: Hurricane Florence Threatens Carolinas and Georgia on U.S. East Coast
(Score: 3, Touché) by Thexalon on Thursday September 13 2018, @12:46PM (2 children)
"Now is the time of great decision:
Are we to stay or up and quit?
There's no avoiding this conclusion:
Our town is turning into shit!"
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @12:54PM (1 child)
given how little cash the average american has,
(seriously, that's a problem not to be underestimated)
its likely that quite a few people in those areas don't have the means to get out,
much less the ability to pay for food and accommodations elsewhere.
so its more of a culling than a competition for the Darwin awards that's happening there.
oh wait, sadly, that's the same thing. tremendously wet too.
quite a terrible thing, this.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:24PM
Airbnb are going to provide places to stay:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hurricane-florence-evacuations-airbnb-open-homes-free-housing-program-evacuees-relief-workers/ [cbsnews.com]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @12:46PM
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/more-than-1000-inmates-left-behind-ahead-of-hurricane-florence/ [truthdig.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @12:53PM (3 children)
(source [msn.com])
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:19PM (2 children)
So... with fukashima, they didn't have time between the quake and the tsunami hitting to shut down the plant, and a couple critical cooling systems failing made the meltdown imminent.
With even a goddamn token effort towards preparatory safety by the staff at brunswick, they could fully insert control rods in the reactor and static passive cooling would be enough to prevent a meltdown.
Not all natural disasters are equal, ones where there's advance notice of days are never going to provoke a meltdown unless you have Chernobyl-level incompetency by the staff in charge.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:25PM (1 child)
Fukashima was shut down. That was the problem.
The fukashima reactor needed power to run cooling pumps. There were 3 ways to get this: the reactor itself, power lines from elsewhere, and diesel generators. When the earthquake happened, operators followed a stupid policy that required shutting down the reactor. That eliminated one way to get power. A tsunami soon showed up, eliminating the other two ways to get power. Had the reactor kept running, the cooling pumps would have had power, and the nuclear incident would not have happened.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 14 2018, @03:37AM
You just contradicted yourself in the next two sentences. Shutting down the nuclear reactors didn't shut down the other two options (actually three ways, bringing in generators is another option). Thus, there were indeed other problems than just "the" problem.
Then that brings us to the problems that happen when you keep an earthquake and tsunami damaged reactor online. How do you keep it cool enough to continue to operate? When it's shut down, it's producing a fraction of the heat (I dimly recall it was a bit less than 20% of the operating reactor with exponential decay past that). So you're operating a damaged reactor at a high level of heat output. You might lose altogether the ability to cool the plant and then you're in China syndrome territory. That's exchanging "the" problem for a much bigger one.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday September 13 2018, @12:57PM (48 children)
It'll be fine. With so many rolls of PT handed out by the president himself, they'll have this little spill wiped up in no time. That IS how it works, right? I mean look how well Puerto Rico is doing.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @01:07PM (10 children)
Say, when was the last time a hurricane wiped out the Washington DC?
Wouldn't now be a good time?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @01:16PM
No. Wait 5 or 10 years for more condos to go up and more black people to be forced out of the city. Then send in the hurricanes.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @01:16PM (2 children)
I think it would be a good time for you to kill yourself, you pathetic cock-gobbling piece of subhuman waste.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:17PM (1 child)
Talking to yourself is a sign of mental illness. Might want to get your head examined.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:06PM
I bet all the bullies in school picked on you, you little pussy.
(Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:08PM (5 children)
Say, when was the last time a hurricane wiped out the Washington DC?
DC is pretty liberal. And liberals appreciate things like competent leaders and science.
So, when Hurricane Sandy was coming in they actually prepared for it instead of pretending it was some kind of liberal hoax. [forbes.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:05PM (3 children)
DC isn't liberal.
DC hasn't been anything like liberal for a long, long time.
DC is populated by people who make their living off the power of government. Liberalism is telling them they don't need those jobs. News flash: their interest in promoting liberalism has never been high.
DC is progressive - pushing the idea of Progress, shepherded by the benevolent hand of Bureaucracy, has been their attitude for at least the last hundred years. And of course that means that they're into leadership (a.k.a. their paymasters) and science (a.k.a. their orthodoxy) but it also means that they're against peons (a.k.a. other people) making ignorant (a.k.a. independent) decisions based on destructively chaotic (a.k.a. liberal) grounds.
When D.C. is liberal, you'll know it because of all the regulations that they willingly tear up, all the laws that they repeal and all the time-serving paper-pushers they lay off.
But don't hold your breath.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:56PM (2 children)
Not this shit again.
Soylent's user base is overwhelmingly American.
You are pretending that the term people are using here is something that is the opposite of American usage. Nobody was confused here except you who are trying to sow confusion.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:26PM (1 child)
DC isn't liberal from an American standpoint, either. It is largely composed of corporatist, warmongering, authoritarian cretins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @04:15PM
Dont confuse the politicians and lobbyists who dont/barely live there with the actual population.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:58PM
Yes, one blowhard with a microphone = an entire group of people's beliefs and thoughts.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @01:18PM (2 children)
Hopefully breast cancer will soon remove you from the rolls of the living.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:59PM
Awww, show me on the dollie where the mean lady hurt you, cupcake~
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:54PM
You sound like an incel to me.
(Score: 1, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Thursday September 13 2018, @01:21PM (4 children)
Thank you for your beautiful support. I think Puerto Rico was an incredible unsung success.
We got A Pluses for our recent hurricane work in Texas and Florida (and did an unappreciated great job in Puerto Rico, even though an inaccessible island with very poor electricity and a totally incompetent Mayor of San Juan). We are ready for the big one that is coming!
The problem with Puerto Rico is their electric grid and their electric generating plant was dead before the storms ever hit. It was in very bad shape. It was in bankruptcy, had no money.
The job that FEMA and law enforcement and everybody did working along with the Governor in Puerto Rico, I think, was TREMENDOUS. 3000 people did not die in the two hurricanes that hit Puerto Rico. When I left the Island, AFTER the storm had hit, they had anywhere from 6 to 18 deaths. As time went by it did not go up by much. Then, a long time later, they started to report really large numbers, like 3000. This was done by the Democrats in order to make me look as bad as possible when I was successfully raising Billions of Dollars to help rebuild Puerto Rico. If a person died for any reason, like old age, just add them onto the list. Bad politics. I love Puerto Rico!
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:00PM (3 children)
That big beautiful wall on the Mexican border? Let's extend it along the Gulf and Atlantic coasts! And for good measure, the Pacific coast too. That'll be a heck of a lot of jobs, for brownie!
When it's finished, let's have a wall party. Show those Chinese that they aren't #1 when it comes to Great Walls!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:02PM (2 children)
Yes, let's forget that both Clintons said the exact same thing in their times as candidates and serving in office about "We should build a wall". I'm starting to worry that SoylentNews is turning into an echo chamber.
(Score: 3, Touché) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:34PM (1 child)
Citation Required.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:28PM
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/tomdispatch-operation-streamline-immigration-enforcement-donald-trump-wall/ [motherjones.com]
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/04/democrats-support-border-wall/ [factcheck.org]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @01:28PM (5 children)
When cancer comes for you, the world will be a better place.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @01:51PM (3 children)
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:49PM
Ah, Trump supporters. If someone says something you don't like, and you have no argument against it, wish them dead. Brilliant!
Nah, that's just regular assholism. A Trump supporter would accuse the left of being violent first.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:09PM (1 child)
Some day when you're on the ground getting your rib cage kicked in, remember that it's not always smart to act like the prick you are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @01:38AM
America has always resisted that sort of behavior. Go hard-extreme and you will lose all support.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:22PM
You probably drink a lot of beer. Cancer is apparently coming for your ass!
(Score: 2, Redundant) by Phoenix666 on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:59PM (21 children)
I didn't pay attention to Puerto Rico after the last hurricane there because it got lost in the rest of the primal scream the MSM has been shrieking for the last two years. But I did a quick search on the matter and it seems like it was widely reported that thousands of containers full of relief supplies were delivered to the docks in San Juan, but the island did nothing to distribute them. The truck drivers didn't show up, and nobody seems to have gone round to gather them and ask them to report to work. My search results turned up that report from CNN, Bloomberg, NPR, and so on across the MSM spectrum so I don't think it's likely that was fabricated.
How is that Trump's fault? You can deliver tons of relief supplies in the town square, but is it then your fault when the townspeople can't be bothered to leave their homes and pick them up? OK, so some of the roads are blocked. Puerto Ricans can't be bothered to haul out their chainsaws and remove the trees?
I gather from your post that Trump was photographed handing out rolls of toilet paper there. That sounds familiar.
When I was at the Clinton Foundation an earthquake leveled Port-au-Prince. Bill Clinton got his buddies to lend him a cargo plane full of water and MRE's. He took along his body man and a couple of the top officers from the Foundation with him, and they were so excited to go on such an important mission. When they got there there was nobody to take receipt of the supplies, because the Haitian government had been essentially leveled also. So they sat there on the tarmac for 8 hours with the ramp down, playing hearts on the crates.
Eventually they did a photo op of Bill holding a box as if he was personally unloading the plane. It was an empty box, of course, with "Relief Supplies" stamped on the side, and it took about 15 minutes before they were satisfied they had gotten the shot. Then they dumped the pallets on the tarmac and took off, headed back to New York. The pallets were then promptly stolen by black marketeers.
Bill used that shot to raise $60 million in donations from the rubes. Over time, 99% of that money was filtered back to Bill's buddies, the Friends of Bill. The 1% that actually went to the suffering Haitians would up giving them cholera because the refugee camps weren't set up right. Turns out political hacks suck at knowing about stuff like basic sanitation.
To this day I don't read anyone in the MSM saying the same things about Bill Clinton for that episode that they apparently said about Trump vis-a-vis Puerto Rico. I mean, I remember there were a couple of tidbits in obscure corners of the media-sphere, but that was it. That's a great trick the MSM likes to play, such that they can claim they did cover it, without actually covering it.
As for how Puerto Rico is doing, well, they did most of it to themselves long before the hurricane ever came along. In fact it was quite lucky for the politicians there that the hurricane did come along, because now they have an excuse for the state of the island and they can blame it all on Trump. Nobody even asks them about their mismanagement and corruption that turned the place into a fiscal basket case long before that.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:16PM (14 children)
Victim-blaming (partly; their inaction is fucking dumb, you have a point there...) AND whataboutism in one giant post, wow. I'd score this one a 2/10, only because you actually touched on something important about how the aid didn't goddamn get distributed.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:27PM (5 children)
Yeaaaah, I'm starting to wonder if Phoenix wasn't a secret troll account from day one. Would make a bit of sense given how frequently he refers to where he lives, kinda like Runaway. God I wish I could magically know which internet users are foreign trolls just stirring shit up, or even domestic trolls trying to influence people with fake accounts that slowly "switch sides".
Maybe Phoenix has just been burned one too many times, but I don't see any reason why Bill's shitty antics somehow ameliorate Trump's. The US fucked up with Puerto Rico. No power? Well we have massive specially built ships that could have been parked there to help out. We have massive armed forces with an Engineer Corps that could have gotten shit fixed up pretty well on that small island.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:30PM (2 children)
Yeah, he seems to have two different personalities. It's one reason I'm not one of his fans; he'll act more or less reasonable, then drop THIS kind of shit on us...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Friday September 14 2018, @12:59AM
This kind of shit? Meaning, something coming from a perspective, a set of experiences that does not align with yours?
Maybe I've seen things you haven't, or have seen what you have seen from a different angle, or haven't seen what you have seen. Maybe, as a rational, informed, and observant person I've reached different conclusions than others have from a distance, based on second- or third-hand information, or, heck through their own set of first hand information. That's not to say, "oooh I have some super secret insider information that you don't." It only means I have had a different set of experiences that have led me to a different view of this particular sort of thing, disasters and disaster relief.
I am honestly surprised to hear you want to stuff me or anyone into a tidy little box. You had always struck me as a complex person, who appreciates complexity in others and in the world around us.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Friday September 14 2018, @12:26PM
One personality when they agree with you and another when they don't? Maybe the problem lies with the observer instead.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:43PM (1 child)
It's not about Bill's antics vs. Trump's antics, but rather how those two disasters were covered.. Bill Clinton used the Haiti earthquake to raise $60 million and spent virtually none of it actually helping the people affected. I call that fraud and morally indefensible. Trump, for his part, got the supplies to Puerto Rico. The people there didn't bother to distribute them. But the media gave Bill a pass and put Trump through the ringer.
That kind of double standard is tedious and caustic.
The truth is, natural disasters could be handled much better than they are. The several that i've witnessed up close have been bungled and seem to be nothing more than a vehicle for fraud and hucksterism. Meanwhile, it's neighbors helping neighbors that hold things together, and the quiet, humble people who work through the night and shun the spotlight who save lives. And all the while the media prance around like it's the greatest show on earth, jamming whatever screed they can down on top of it.
I'm sick of it.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @04:21PM
Having you in ANY way apologize for Trump, especially with a fuck up like Puerto Rico relief, well that is all. It makes no sense, and yes it is Trump's fault since he is supposedly the leader of the fucking country. So either Trump has literally driven the world insane, you are a shill, or you just got burned so bad youre willing to go Full Evil.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:11PM (7 children)
Calling it "whataboutism" glibly dismisses the markedly different coverage of two comparable events, natural disasters, despite similar levels of dysfunction and ham-fisted photo ops.
Meanwhile, the relief supplies did reach Puerto Rico. The federal government did its part. The stuff was sitting on the docks. What more do the feds do then, wave a magic wand and un-damage the roads and right the power lines? That never happens anywhere. The feds release disaster funds, and the locals are then to use them to get things back to rights. Are there none in Puerto Rico who know how to do that?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:11PM (2 children)
When the left do it it's "inconvenient truths" or "speaking the truth to power" or "uncovering corruption and hypocrisy".
When anyone tells them inconvenient truths, or lends perspectives, or illustrates hypocrisy, it's "whataboutism".
Anyone slinging that term about can be pretty much as safely ignored as anybody who talks about their god hating fags. It's a sign of angry fringe mentality.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:22PM (1 child)
When anyone tells them inconvenient truths, or lends perspectives, or illustrates hypocrisy, it's "whataboutism".
No, it's whatboutism when you compare, say, something a federal agency does under the direction of a sitting President. To, say, something a citizen does as part of his own private charity.
Which, for the record, is what just happened.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday September 14 2018, @01:09AM
No, it's actually not what just happened. We're not talking about a random private citizen, but a former president of the US. In fact we're talking about two former presidents of the US, because Bill Clinton did the Haiti gig in tandem with George W. Bush. Furthermore, those two are not random, disinterested former presidents of the US, either, because Bill's wife Hillary was Secretary of State of the US at the time, in the administration of a president whom they were deeply meshed with as former primary rivals and fellow leaders of the Democratic party.
I can tell you for a fact that Obama was not a presence in that disaster in Haiti, and Bill Clinton was effectively president of the US with respect to it. That is, FEMA, the State Department, and all the rest were taking their lead from him.
So your distinction is only technically true, but not effectively so.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:18PM (3 children)
What more do the feds do then, wave a magic wand and un-damage the roads and right the power lines?
I think the feds, as an agency are supposed to manage the emergency. But who knows, I'm just spitballing here...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:56PM
Well yeah but where are we gonna get the funding for the ICE concentration camps?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @09:05PM
Public Policy. She was telling me about fema and Katrina. I had/have little knowledge on the subject, but it appears in these discussions often.
Anyway, she said katrina happened in the middle of a giant reorgaization after 9/11 and there were so many different agencies involved that no one could figure out who was in charge of what as people's roles were not solidly defined at that point (kinda like when you have 8 bosses). Perhaps something similar. Logistics is hard.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:53PM
They did, though. Getting supplies there and releasing disaster relief is the feds' piece of the puzzle. Distributing the supplies is on the state (or commonwealth in this case) to do. Local crews clear the roads and restore power under contracts funded by the federal disaster relief money, and managed by the state. That's how it was in NYC after hurricane sandy, because i bid on a couple.
In america, immediate disaster supplies and evacuations are done by first responders and national guard. All that is under the state and local jurisdiction. If they didn't do that in puerto rico, that's on them.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:02PM (3 children)
containers full of relief supplies were delivered to the docks in San Juan, but the island did nothing to distribute them.
Those were FEMA supplies and it was FEMA's job to know how to distribute them. [npr.org]
How is that Trump's fault?
Trump is in charge of FEMA. If he'd hired the best people they might've known ahead of time that driving large trucks around after a hurricane, on an island, might be hard.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 13 2018, @09:28PM
And hey look! Just like that we can add the FEMA director to the long list of corrupt Trump appointees!
How soon until this guy resigns like all the rest? [washingtonpost.com]
The part where he screws up the name of the incoming hurricane is rather amusing, too.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday September 14 2018, @12:10AM (1 child)
How is FEMA supposed to get all those cargo containers from the port to the backwoods of puerto rico, using a fleet of 2,000 skycrane helicopters that doesn't exist? No, they would have to use trucks. And anticipating that roads might be impassable after a hurricane does not mean you will have some magic way to clear those roads. It will always take time to do that, no matter who you are and how well organized you are.
As for the head of FEMA, that's one guy. Presumably he's surrounded by lifelong FEMA bureaucrats who know what they're doing. It would be nice if presidents picked technocrats who knew what they were doing to head those agencies. I would prefer that. But it seems most pick people for those positions based on political reasons.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @04:29PM
Sweet apologetic christ. Can you be reborn already? I think you are in the crusty later stages of life. When states have a problem the fed is supposed to step in and help, not throw up their hands and say "that part is on you!" Other areas would quickly see a mass of national guard units and equipment brought in. Puerto Rico wss blamed for all sorts of shit instead of getting help. What a load of horse shit you want to pander, then defend Trump who threw paper towels at the crowd.
Maybe you are a real person but youve lost any faith i had in you. Not like you care but whatever.
(Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:01PM (1 child)
Bill Clinton wasn't a sitting President at the time. I'm guessing he didn't have nearly as much media along, compared to Trump. So no wonder Trump's photo op got more attention.
Puerto Ricans are American citizens. Haitians (those living in Haiti that don't individually have U.S. citizenship) are not.
President Trump has repeatedly downplayed the situation in Puerto Rico, including just today [twitter.com]:
Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die' [cnn.com]
Trump's wrong on Puerto Rico, Florida Republicans say [go.com]
Large portions of the island were left without electricity for a long time. Infrastructure, roads, and many homes were damaged. The updated death toll and other estimates are in the ballpark of 0.1% of the population. Does Trump dispute the new death toll because it's wildly inaccurate, or because it's politically expedient to ignore it? At least 200,000 people have ended up moving to Florida, which is probably not a great outcome for Republicans or Trump's reelection effort. Obviously, Maria's effects on Puerto Rico's economy and tourism were not great, so their already crappy economy is going to be even worse off.
Puerto Rico had its problems before the storm, that's for sure, but sooner or later, we will have to pick up the tab. That's the price of latent imperialism. If the place goes completely tits up, you'll just see a massive exodus to Florida, which will likely cease to be a "battleground state".
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday September 14 2018, @01:25AM
No, but his wife was Secretary of State at the time, a position Obama gave her to try to avoid a split in the Democratic party after a long and bitter primary. Also, George W. Bush was in on the Haiti action with the Clintons, so we're talking about two former presidents, not just one. Bill Clinton was also the UN's Special Envoy to Haiti at the time, so the UN was also represented. In short, there were plenty of media there.
The status of Puerto Ricans as Americans doesn't make a material difference to the damage a hurricane will do to a Caribbean island. It doesn't mean cleaning up afterward is somehow easier, either. They're called natural disasters for a reason. Hurricane Sandy hit NYC six years ago, and it was pretty mild as hurricanes go, but here we are all that time later and they are still shutting down subway tunnels to Williamsburg, Brooklyn, to repair hurricane damage. The aquarium in Coney Island is still messed up.
So where are all the media cursing Obama for not having done enough to protect the center of American capitalism and financial markets from such an event, which, as a guy who's aware of the impact of climate change on extreme weather, should have known better? There was no such outcry.
My point in all this is that the MSM was never going to say anything positive about Trump's handling of the matter. If he had had an actual magic wand, and had waved it, and everything had suddenly gone back to status quo ante, MSNBC would have led its evening broadcast with "Trump Makes Pact Wtih Satan."
My secondary point, already made upthread, is that the local pols in Puerto Rico were just pleased as punch to suddenly have Trump to blame for the damage they themselves had done to the place.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:52PM
I remember when I was a kid in the 70's living on a boat in Florida when a hurricane hit. Presidents weren't involved in hurricanes back then.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @01:31PM
I'll stand where the hurricane meets me, it's hurricane florence up my ass or nothing!
(Score: 5, Interesting) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Thursday September 13 2018, @01:43PM (7 children)
Relax everyone, North Carolina have already dealt with this problem, years ago.
They have outlawed rising sea levels, so the predicted 12-foot sea surge won't happen. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/12/north-carolina-didnt-like-science-on-sea-levels-so-passed-a-law-against-it [theguardian.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:00PM (1 child)
It's okaay, God will save them! [drool, drool, drool]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:04PM
Heaven is a cool place, right? Maybe G_d will kill them to save them.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:45PM (3 children)
Smart move! I'll tell you, I did the same thing for the Federal. I did an Executive Order that repealed an Obama Executive Order. He wanted it to be, whenever we did infrastructure, we'd have to go, "oh, what about flooding, what about Climate Change?" By the way, used to be global warming, that wasn't working too well because it was getting too cold all over the place. Whatever we'd build, some guy would have to ask those questions. The flooding, the Climate Change. So it would take 17 years to build a highway. I cut the regulations. So our infrastructure can get built MUCH FASTER. I promised you we'd cut two regulations for every new one. But we've done much better than anybody expected. Frankly, better than I expected. We've cut 22 regulations for every new one. Incredible!!! whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/presidential-executive-order-establishing-discipline-accountability-environmental-review-permitting-process-infrastructure [whitehouse.gov] whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-delivering-deregulation [whitehouse.gov]
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:12PM (2 children)
So, if there is nothing to climate change or global warming or whatever you want to call it, why do you want to put in a sea wall at one of your resorts?
Announcement: Trump's other wall: is his Irish resort a sign he believes in climate change? [theguardian.com]
Approval: Trump Resort in Ireland Gets Approval for Sea Walls [nytimes.com].
Why spend all that money for a problem that does not exist?
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:32PM (1 child)
C'mon now, it is obvious at this point Trump is playing a character. He doesn't invest any actual effort and wings it all the time because his supporters don't exactly examine his actions, or even his words really. Of course these assholes know GW is real, but since there is little that can be done except to slightly slow it down and prepare they opt to make money off of it and use the topic for political division.
I mean we have khallow round here trying to play the sensible logical scientist that just isn't convinced the problem is real sowing doubt to keep the suckers riled up. If photographic evidence of glaciers disappearing, arctic ice disappearing, and data on record high temperatures year after year doesn't convince these people then nothing will. Just a massive conspiracy for some companies to magically make money and for Democrats to seize control!!! lawl
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 14 2018, @04:03AM
What's my field?
Convince of what? I've already stated multiple times that I believe there is human-induced global warming.
Not much magic to turning tax revenue streams into profit. And it's interesting how undersold adaptation strategies are. But that makes sense for a power play to downplay alternate strategies that would undermine their schemes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:00PM
At least old king Cnut was trying to make a point about how he was just a man and powerless before the divine....
(Score: 3, Insightful) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:58PM (2 children)
I became a regular blood donor after I heard that houston's blood banks, bloodmobiles and donation labs had been flooded
In fact my first unit really did go to Texas
If you become a regular donor you'll need to get extra iron in your diet
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:29PM (1 child)
what about semen, can we donate that, too?
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:50PM
My friend and I drove from Santa Cruz to Berkeley to visit his little sister. Her boyfriend let us into their apartment then explained she would be home from work soon.
"Sorry, I had to work late at the bank."
"What bank is open on Saturday?"
"The sperm bank."
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:35PM (8 children)
I live on a barrier island in Florida. It's a sandy strip of land about a mile wide and really long, separated from the mainland by about 3 miles of water called the Intercoastal Waterway.
The last time I evacuated, I faced problems getting home. Some counties, despite being inland and not really affected, imposed curfews. I'm not a kid and they are not my parents; this is highly offensive. The bridges leading back to my barrier island were closed, supposedly so that safety inspections could be performed. I didn't see the police being concerned of course; they drove all over the bridge. I wish to make my own decision about this, so fuck all you nanny state commies. I no longer evacuate. I don't care if it is category 5. Maybe my family will die... but I'm not leaving my home if I might be blocked from coming back.
I stayed for a category 4. Fuckers shut my water off, supposedly to protect the mainland system, but we know the real reason: applying pressure to me. That of course puts the water system at risk of sewage contamination. Gee thanks, assholes.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:14PM (1 child)
You chose to live in Florida.
It is impossible to have sympathy for you, because it's been known for decades
that Florida is one of the worst states to live in.
When you make bad choices, you get bad results.
But keep whining and maybe the tooth fairy will come for you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:14PM
Oh, right. Dude lives in Florida so that means he should be abused by authorities.
Can we make the same argument for, say, New York? Massachu ... uh, no?
Then go to hell.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:25PM (1 child)
Fuckers shut my water off, supposedly to protect the mainland system, but we know the real reason: applying pressure to me
Yeah, it's some huge conspiracy to......uh......save your dumb ass?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:07PM
Hmm, he did say that he didn't want his dumb ass saved. Perhaps he's making the decision to stay put in the public interest. Think about if every bootstrapper, every woman dumb enough to be subservient to said bootstrapper, and his bootstrapper kids were willing to make such a sacrifice to ensure that future generations will be free of their stupidity.
Isn't there an award for selflessly removing oneself from the gene pool?
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:46PM (1 child)
You know why there is a curfew, you know why they had to apply it to you when there was no reason to. The same reason you can't say any of it and have to pointlessly bitch and complain about the insanity of it.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:17PM
Different AC here. I didn't get the memo. Can you tell us why there was a curfew? If there's somebody on this site that is willing to speak truth to power and defy the vast left-wing conspiracy, it's jmorris.... We're counting on you! Information wants to be free!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:56PM
Bon voyage! Say hello to Robinson Crusoe for me.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Thursday September 13 2018, @10:40PM
This is part of the reason they have trouble getting people to evacuate. Everything is handled for the least common denominator, the sort of people who might actually die or be completely helpless if the power goes out and water supplies become contaminated. If they issued the evacuation warning when necessary, but once the storm passes let people back into their homes under their own responsibility, then I think more people would leave.
I also live on a Florida barrier island. I've evacuated for one hurricane, Floyd in 1999. The authorities were claiming there would be a 25 foot storm surge and 200 mph winds. Floyd of course never came close to making landfall in my part of Florida, the winds were no worse than a typical strong thunderstorm (although sustained for longer of course) and the "storm surge" was limited to rough surf a few feet up the bottoms of the beach access ramps. There was no reason I had to evacuate, and there was especially no reason they needed to keep residents out for an additional day after the storm passed. I spent time after that doing a bit of studying of these storms and their effects to know what to expect when one is forecast.
I happen to have plenty of backpacking and camping gear I'm itching to use, I can purify water, I have food to cook and a pile of stoves to cook them on, battery powered fans and lights, candles, tents, tarps, etc. I know enough to fill every container I have with water when a storm approaches, to make extra ice (freezing pitchers of water makes great block ice) for when the power fails, how to secure the property, etc, etc, etc. I feel I am safe in most hurricanes, certainly I have been in every one that has struck since then.
There's a big difference however in a hurricane passing off the coast, one with the eye making landfall fifty or a hundred miles away, and one hitting head on. Staying on a barrier island with a category 5 making head on landfall anywhere close is insane. They are the sort of storms that build and destroy barrier islands, cut new inlets, close existing ones, etc. A category 4 is nearly as bad. Even a category 3 with the eye hitting head on would be rough, I think most structures would survive but one likely would spend some time being uncomfortable, especially if you are in an area exposed to winds or one that could flood. Anything below that, or with the eye making landfall far enough away you can ride out, although one should keep in mind that a storm like Florence, which was much stronger than what it will be when it makes landfall, might be pushing a far higher storm surge than expected for its predicted strength.
I suppose my point is that one has to have the judgment to know when to heed the evacuation warnings. Most are bogus, but you better be right!
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:54PM
Ya know, if NOAA and the NWS along with the legacy media wouldn't declare almost every Hurricane a record breaking HellStorm from Hell and that if you don't RUN FOR YOUR LIVES RIGHT NOW!!! you had better write your social security number on your arm so they can identify your bloated corpse later, that every hurricane is a HELLSTORM because Reagan,m Bush and Trump didn't care about GLOBAL WARMING. Maybe, just maybe, if they only turned on the fear machine for the actually dangerous storms people might listen. But then I'm just a ebil Nazi, whadda I know, right?
This thing is coming in as a upper end Cat 1, minimal 2. Any structure that can be damaged by those winds NEEDS to be at this point. We know how to build structures capable of resisting this sort of hurricane, we have had a crapload of them and anybody still building deathtraps needs to suffer the consequences. Stupidity is supposed to hurt. The flooding on the other hand is probably going to be a mess.