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posted by martyb on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:14PM   Printer-friendly
from the don't-touch-that-dial! dept.

Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

When you try to install the Firefox pr Chrome web browser on a recent Windows 10 version 1809 Insider build, you may notice that the installation gets interrupted by the operating system.

The intermediary screen that interrupts the installation states that Edge is installed on the device and that it is safer and faster than the browser that the user was about to install on the device.

Options provided are to open Microsoft Edge or install the other browser anyway. There is also an option to disable the warning type in the future but that leads to the Apps listing of the Settings application and no option to do anything about that.

[...] Companies like Google or Microsoft have used their market position in the past to push their own products. Google pushes Chrome on all of its properties when users use different browsers to connect to them, and Microsoft too displayed notifications on the Windows 10 platform to users who used other browsers that Edge was more secure or power friendly.

The intercepting of installers on Windows is a new low, however. A user who initiates the installation of a browser does so on purpose. The prompt that Microsoft displays claims that Edge is safer and faster, and it puts the Open Microsoft Edge button on focus and not the "install anyway" button.

-- submitted from IRC


Original Submission

Related Stories

Firefox Browser Use Drops as Mozilla's Worst Microsoft Edge Fears Come True 133 comments

Firefox Browser Use Drops As Mozilla's Worst Microsoft Edge Fears Come True

Back in April, we reported that the Edge browser is quickly gaining market share now that Microsoft has transitioned from the EdgeHTML engine to the more widely used Chromium engine (which also underpins Google's Chrome browser). At the time, Edge slipped into the second-place slot for desktop web browsers, with a 7.59 percent share of the market. This dropped Mozilla's Firefox – which has long been the second-place browser behind Chrome – into third place.

Now, at the start of August, we're getting some fresh numbers in for the desktop browser market, and things aren't looking good for Mozilla. Microsoft increased its share of the browser market from 8.07 percent in June to 8.46 percent in July. Likewise, Firefox fell from 7.58 percent to 7.27 percent according to NetMarketShare.

[...] As for Mozilla, the company wasn't too happy when Microsoft first announced that it was going to use Chromium for Edge way back in December 2018. Mozilla's Chris Beard at the time accused Microsoft of "giving up" by abandoning EdgeHTML in favor of Chromium. "Microsoft's decision gives Google more ability to single-handedly decide what possibilities are available to each one of us," said Beard at the time. "We compete with Google because the health of the internet and online life depend on competition and choice."

[...] Microsoft developer Kenneth Auchenberg fought back the following January, writing, "Thought: It's time for Mozilla to get down from their philosophical ivory tower. The web is dominated by Chromium, if they really *cared* about the web they would be contributing instead of building a parallel universe that's used by less than 5 percent."

Is the browser monoculture inevitable or will Firefox hang in there?

Previously:


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:33PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:33PM (#734253)

    remember folks, whether you use M$ or Apple, it's lizard people all the way down

    • (Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:42PM (3 children)

      by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:42PM (#734257) Homepage Journal

      Google is full of lizards too - or are they robots? They aren't human, that's for sure.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:30PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:30PM (#734293)

        It's not mutually exclusive: Google are lizard-bots.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 13 2018, @10:55PM (1 child)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 13 2018, @10:55PM (#734526) Homepage Journal

          Ooooh! SHINY! How do I get my own lizard-bot?

          --
          Don’t confuse the news with the truth.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @12:46AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @12:46AM (#734597)

            Just click "Yes" when any google pop-up asks you if you want to "learn more about our great product"

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:25PM (#734339)

      You're really doing a disservice to the lizards with your characterization.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by urza9814 on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:42PM (13 children)

    by urza9814 (3954) on Thursday September 13 2018, @02:42PM (#734259) Journal

    Repeat offender [soylentnews.org]. This deserves excessive punitive fines. Let's hope the EU decides to do something about it...since we all know nobody else will...

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:02PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:02PM (#734277)

      the EU can shove it. bunch of socialist anti free-market bastards.

      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:15PM (4 children)

        by c0lo (156) on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:15PM (#734284) Journal

        Oh, they'll shove it up MS arse.
        If only for the lulz. No, not only, for the money, too.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
        • (Score: 1, Disagree) by DannyB on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:43PM (3 children)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:43PM (#734320) Journal

          The job of the US DoJ is to punish companies for breaking the law and hurting consumers.

          The job of the EU is to punish companies for being successful while other companies wish they were as successful but are in the wrong business to be that successful.

          --
          Scissors come in consumer packaging that cannot be opened without scissors.
          • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:46PM (1 child)

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:46PM (#734350) Journal

            The job of the US DoJ is to punish companies for breaking the law and hurting consumers.

            Which they did when they convicted MS of anti-competitive practices.

            Of course, GW Bush came along and let them off scott free.

            It appears they learned their lesson perfectly well.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @04:20AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @04:20AM (#734694)

              Yeah, check their lobbying and political contributions now, especially compared to before the monopoly suit. They definitely learned their lesson, at least the ones the politicians and bureaucrats wanted them to learn.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:09PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:09PM (#734398)

            YEEEAAAAAAAH! 'MURICA!!!!!!!

            /sarcasm

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:53PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:53PM (#734326)

        You know what free markets do when you let them off the chain? Yeah, that's right, they EAT BABIES!

        Are you into eating babies? Are you a sick pedophile cannibal? Clean up your act sir before you get hired at the Whitehouse.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:12PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:12PM (#734303)

      Old need. Ms been doing for years. Talk about how ms blows up a good install daily with no way to stop it.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:05PM (3 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:05PM (#734531) Homepage Journal

        no way to stop it.

        That isn't entirely accurate. I just asked the wife how old her installation of Windows 7 is. I'm not sure, she isn't either. We agree that it's more than six years old. Windows 7 is exactly what she wanted, and she's not willing to have it borked by Microsoft's insistence on "upgrades". She has her methods to ensure that her computer doesn't update/upgrade without her approval, and I helped her by killing the telemetry channels at the router. I read more techy news than she does, so I try to keep her updated to dangerous updates/upgrades. But, she has her own channels through which she learns of some of those dangers before I do.

        Yes, you CAN maintain a Microsoft computer, despite Microsoft's best efforts to screw it up. It just takes more effort than most people are willing to put into it.

        --
        Don’t confuse the news with the truth.
        • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:49PM (1 child)

          by fyngyrz (6567) on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:49PM (#734553) Journal

          Yes, you CAN maintain a Microsoft computer, despite Microsoft's best efforts to screw it up. It just takes more effort than most people are willing to put into it.

          Hell, I'm still running XP in a VM for cross-development; it's fine. Like most Microsoft products, it's not safe to let it go outside to play, so no network connections for it. Still, other than it having to virtually hang on the wall in a bundling bag, why, it's doing just fine!

          • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday September 14 2018, @12:38AM

            by HiThere (866) on Friday September 14 2018, @12:38AM (#734590) Journal

            Yeah, I was running MSWind95 until a year or two ago. But I never let it near the internet.

            --
            Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by toddestan on Friday September 14 2018, @03:22AM

          by toddestan (4982) on Friday September 14 2018, @03:22AM (#734678)

          By the way, if you type "systeminfo" at the command prompt, it will tell you the install date and a lot of other things too. My Windows 7 desktop was installed on 2/6/2012, 9:52:46 AM, which would correspond to when I assembled it originally.

          Part of this, of course, is to be careful about you install and allow to run on it.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by bob_super on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:51PM

      by bob_super (1357) on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:51PM (#734325)

      "Let me get over this again: You got slapped with a giant fine for simply bundling in your browser, which was a way to leverage your monopoly to kill the competition. What exactly makes you think that actively attempting to discourage people from installing other browsers isn't, let's say, about 10 times, plus inflation, worse?" - The EU

  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:00PM (14 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:00PM (#734275)

    They are under no obligation to support competition in their own product. Don't like what they are doing, choose another product. Its called free market.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:04PM (10 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:04PM (#734300)

      modded flame bait? Really? For just speaking the truth?

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:45PM (6 children)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:45PM (#734322) Journal

        It is arguable whether it is the truth. It is arguably still a monopoly platform. Everyone and all businesses use it with few exceptions.

        Harming competition is what got Microsoft in trouble with the US DoJ and with the EU.

        --
        Scissors come in consumer packaging that cannot be opened without scissors.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:53PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:53PM (#734453)

          Governments should not even be allowed to use proprietary software at all in the first place; it's a threat to freedom, education, and independence, which are all things that governments should be promoting.

          I'd also like to see MS forced to release their operating system as Free Software one day.

          • (Score: 1) by anubi on Friday September 14 2018, @08:44AM

            by anubi (2828) on Friday September 14 2018, @08:44AM (#734743) Journal

            Personally, I would love to see copyright law clearly state that any unsupported software is legally considered abandonware, and has no further copyright status under the law.

            If someone is continuing to support their 25 year old CAD system, as far as I am concerned, that's their bread and butter, and they are still milking that cow. Its still a productive cow. Why shouldn't they keep the fruit of their labor?

            But if they don't support it anymore, its like the neighbor putting a washing machine out by the curb. People around where I live do this all the time. In a day or so, someone else drives by in a pickup truck, sees it, takes it. Now, what he does with it is his business, but as far as I am concerned, it was not theft. It was an abandoned washing machine.

            But if the guy comes into the neighbor's property and takes it, THEN its theft.

            --
            "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
        • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:51PM (3 children)

          by fyngyrz (6567) on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:51PM (#734554) Journal

          Everyone and all businesses use it with few exceptions.

          Yeah. Just millions and millions and millions of exceptions. But other than that, yeah!

          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday September 14 2018, @03:43PM (2 children)

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @03:43PM (#734871) Journal

            While Linux is invisibly in many things around us, including business applications, it does not negate the fact that most businesses use Windows PCs.

            I have no love for Microsoft and I wish they would disappear.

            A lot of businesses use vertical market applications, eg, special purpose applications. Like a doctor's office. Or eye doctor. Or your oil change place. Your local library. Etc. these vertical market applications are invisible, yet everywhere. And most of them run on Windows. New ones are browser based, even if running from a local server in the office. But most offices would just order a Dell (eg, Windows) and run their application on it.

            That inertia is a sad fact of life. But it is real.

            --
            Scissors come in consumer packaging that cannot be opened without scissors.
            • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Friday September 14 2018, @06:52PM (1 child)

              by fyngyrz (6567) on Friday September 14 2018, @06:52PM (#734964) Journal

              While Linux is invisibly in many things around us, including business applications, it does not negate the fact that most businesses use Windows PCs.

              Linux is mostly servers and phones and the like, but on business desktops, there are literally millions of macs, and they work very well for many common business desktop use cases. Windows is not all there is by any means. I own several businesses; there's not a native Windows PC among them. Linux and OS X, no more. I personally have an XP VM myself for cross development, not wanting to leave Windows users bereft of my software products. But other than doing cross-compiles on it, it gets no use at all.

              I have no love for Microsoft and I wish they would disappear.

              Meh. I don't like them myself very much, but I have no problem with the choice being available. I am amused by people who think it's always, or even often, the only choice, though. It most certainly isn't. Hell, Microsoft even makes Office available for OS X, and that's a fairly common business use case right there.

              these vertical market applications are invisible, yet everywhere. And most of them run on Windows.

              Plenty of vertical market stuff runs under OSX. Including a good number that are habitually thought of as "linux apps." I've written several such applications / systems myself. Including one very large one for Linux. Top to bottom e-commerce; web, pos, backend, tech support tool suite, sales analysis tool suite — the whole 9 yards, no 3rd party web or e-commerce frameworks, etc. Underlying tech for that one is c, Python, Perl, PostgreSQL, Apache. The entire business runs on it, again, not a Windows machine in the building or the warehouses. There's simply no need.

              My SDR stuff is built for OS X, then cross-compiled for windows. My image manipulation / editing stuff is OS X only so far, but I'll probably make it available under Windows at some point.

              Then there are people like the Omni group, who make apps only for OSX, like Omni Outliner. That is a truly application program and it's only available for OS X. The reverse of what you're talking about.

              Etc.

              That inertia is a sad fact of life. But it is real.

              The inertia is real enough, but it is often enough a matter of outright incorrect assumption by people, some of whom, at least, should know better.

              • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday September 14 2018, @08:21PM

                by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @08:21PM (#735028) Journal

                You make good points. It's been a long time since I was a card carrying Mac fanboy. But I was one once, and a Mac (classic) developer.

                Where I think Windows strength is in business:
                1. small business. Inertia. Apathy. Go with the flow. PCs sold everywhere. So buy a PC and get the PC software.
                2. large enterprise. If you have 1,000 or more PCs to maintain you probably run mostly Windows. Microsoft has built a great enterprise story for running very large fleets of PCs. If you know of a serious alternative I would be glad to be informed about it.

                Again, I have no love for Microsoft and wish they would just disappear. I almost feel that way about Apple too, but not quite as strongly.

                --
                Scissors come in consumer packaging that cannot be opened without scissors.
      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:58PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:58PM (#734331)

        Your truth is someone else's monopolistic anti-competitive behavior. They don't sell enough clue bats to give you a sufficient beat down. If we had a time machine I'd drop you off back in an old coal mining company town.

      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:52PM

        by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:52PM (#734392)

        They got sued [wikipedia.org] over this sort of thing [wikipedia.org] before.

        So, no, not "truth." Personally I would've gone with Troll over Flamebait, but hey.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:08PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:08PM (#734532) Homepage Journal

        I concur with DannyB's response. However, I do believe in "freedom of speech", and feel that you probably shouldn't have been modded down troll or flamebait. A simple "disagree" would have sufficed to express disagreement.

        To be clear, I disagree with you, but I won't mod you down for it.

        --
        Don’t confuse the news with the truth.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:16PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:16PM (#734403)

      Man, these corporate serfs would be funny if they weren't actually able to fuck it up for other people.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:41PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:41PM (#734414)

      And you, the end-victim, have the freedom to move to a better OS. For people who visit this site, that is a no-brainer that is preached on daily - move to Linux. But for Joe Public, he is buying a toaster, a commodity device and simply accepts what the salesman said about Cortana being so cool and has no clue but to enter his/her/its credit card when Office365 says it is time to pay up, again. Doofus, in charge of city/county/state administration, not only is NOT a qualified IT person, but has been wined and dined to ensure the contract is signed for Windows workstations and nothing else.

      Next: Win10 borks if you try to install LibreOffice, "our Office 365 is better and more secure." And then even Irfanview, "our MS Paint is better and more secure."

      • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:56PM

        by fyngyrz (6567) on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:56PM (#734559) Journal

        And you, the end-victim, have the freedom to move to a better OS. For people who visit this site, that is a no-brainer... - move to Linux OS X / MacOS.

        FTFY :)

        ...most (nearly all) the benefits of linux, plus the ability to make money and polished desktop apps.

        [runs away, ducking madly]

  • (Score: 2) by digitalaudiorock on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:04PM (10 children)

    by digitalaudiorock (688) on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:04PM (#734279)

    So apparently MS and Google are in an "I'm a bigger dick then you" contest apparently. And Edge...yea...I'm gonna use a browser that doesn't even separate the fucking URL bar from a search.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:10PM (9 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:10PM (#734282)

      Which browser does?

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:18PM (8 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:18PM (#734285)

        Firefox still has a search text field that does only search.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:25PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:25PM (#734291)

          It's also possible to disable automatic search from url bar when you enter something that is not an URL or cannot be resolved, if only I could remember what the option was in that damned about:config. I think I've changed about hundred of options by now and if my profile dies I'm fucked.

          • (Score: 2) by rts008 on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:32PM

            by rts008 (3001) on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:32PM (#734312)

            Is FEBE still available for Firefox?

            I was a huge fan of FEBE when I used Firefox. It will backup themes, profiles, extensions, usernames and passwords, permissions, etc., and can be setup on a schedule.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:11PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:11PM (#734535) Homepage Journal

            Just back up your profile, man. I've backed up and restored profiles across disk formats and reinstalls - it's no big deal. I have backed up profiles from at least a decade ago! Really should delete some of them . . .

            --
            Don’t confuse the news with the truth.
        • (Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:28PM (4 children)

          by SomeGuy (5632) on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:28PM (#734292)

          Why would anyone even want to use a search field instead of going to the web page of the search engine you want to use.

          Oh, right, there can be only only one search engine.

          • (Score: 4, Informative) by urza9814 on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:37PM (1 child)

            by urza9814 (3954) on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:37PM (#734295) Journal

            Why would anyone even want to use a search field instead of going to the web page of the search engine you want to use.

            ...because it's a hell of a lot faster? I mean I could type www.duckduckgo.com, hit enter, wait for the page to load, scroll down to the search box, type in my query, and hit search...or I could just type in my query and hit enter in the first place. Efficiency is good :)

            Oh, right, there can be only only one search engine.

            On Edge, perhaps. On a sane browser, you can easily enable multiple search engines through the URL bar quick search feature. On Firefox, by default typing something which isn't a valid domain name into the URL bar will give you an option of searching with Google, Bing, Amazon, DuckDuckGo, Ebay, Twitter or Wikipedia. Not the best list, but it's easy enough to add or remove anything if you don't like those options. Chrome doesn't seem to give any options, probably because it's not a browser but rather a tool for enabling Google's EEE strategy. Same is likely true of Edge, though I've never used that one.

            • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Marand on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:38PM

              by Marand (1081) on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:38PM (#734318) Journal

              ...because it's a hell of a lot faster? I mean I could type www.duckduckgo.com, hit enter, wait for the page to load, scroll down to the search box, type in my query, and hit search...or I could just type in my query and hit enter in the first place. Efficiency is good :)

              Efficiency is why I used the Ubiquity [wikipedia.org] addon for Firefox for so long. Stuck with the ESR release and avoided the WebExtensions apocalypse for as long as possible because I knew it would be the end of one of my most-used addons. It pops up a command runner type thing when a keyboard shortcut is used, similar to how some IDEs do, so I followed their convention and set it to ctrl-space. Instead of routing everything through a specific search engine, I used its extensible command list to search specific sites directly and show results in-line, which often saved me a page load if the summary had the info I wanted in it.

              Unfortunately, the WebExtensions apocalypse hit even Debian stable, which swapped from 52ESR to 60ESR recently, so I had to finally deal with it. Which I did by installing Waterfox and moving my Firefox profile over, which saved most of the extensions I use. But not Ubiquity, which I couldn't seem to get working again due to the multi-process changes after FF52. Tried some suggested workarounds, but no luck.

              I mention this because, in giving up Ubiquity, I found a way to make the Firefox (and Waterfox, Pale Moon, etc.) url bar work as a sort-of workaround for part of Ubiquity's functionality. Bookmarks, when being edited, have a "keyword" field that can be used to quickly load them by a given name, e.g. one could type "sn" and load soylentnews.org. Not too useful by itself, but it has some extra magic with searches: if you right-click a text field you can "add a keyword for this search", which allows you to use the keyword to search that specific site, so you can do things like type "wiki SoylentNews" in the URL bar to search Wikipedia. Not quite as convenient as Ubiquity (which showed results in the pop-up instead of replacing your current page, and opened a new tab if you clicked any), but a mostly acceptable substitute.

              Anyway, the point: if you want efficiency, try using keywords to search the correct engine directly instead of sending everything through a single search provider. Make keywords for IMDB, Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Duck Duck Go, Google, your image search of choice, Stack Overflow, Arch wiki, etc. and choose the right tool instead of hoping a search engine will do it for you. Cutting out the extra step of going through a general engine when you're looking for something specific can save some time. Also, consider turning off the "save search and form history" setting to avoid cluttering the URL bar's history with a bunch of search shit.

          • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:48PM

            by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:48PM (#734389)

            You can add (and last I checked the default install came with half a dozen) multiple search engines to the searchbar in Firefox so you don't have to go to a different webpage. You can even cycle through them via Ctrl+UpArrow and Ctrl+DownArrow while you're entering text in the searchbar.

            --
            "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:15PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 13 2018, @11:15PM (#734537) Homepage Journal

            I like my search box. The duckduckgo icon sits in the end of that box. I click the icon, and I'm presented with my own customized list of search engines, including Yandex, European search engine, Ecosia, Wikipedia - what's conspicuously missing is Bing and Yahoo. I use Google from time to time, because sometimes they are seemingly the best choice. A few others, less often.

            I suppose that I could achieve the same thing with bookmarks, but I like my search bar.

            --
            Don’t confuse the news with the truth.
  • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:20PM (4 children)

    by bzipitidoo (4388) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:20PM (#734288) Journal

    It's such a loser move to push your products on people like that. What do they fear? That if they don't interfere with people's choices, they don't get chosen! What M$ is doing is like trying to win an election by rigging the vote. But then, that seems to be M$'s core business strategy since, oh, Office achieved dominance in the 1990s.

    And, how the mighty have fallen. IE market share was once over 90%. Then M$ got complacent and let IE, which was never that great to begin with, fall further and further behind. Like IE was about the last browser to achieve full support for PNG. By the late 2000s, IE was the laughingstock of browsers. All that wealth, and yet M$ couldn't be bothered to keep IE current. It wasn't just neglect, it was more by evil design, trying to use IE as the wedge to force the web to conform to their proprietary standards, be the leader rather than following.

    M$ also drank the DRM Kool-aid, tried to push proprietary, DRM encumbered video and audio standards. That was one of the stupidest mistakes they made. Windows Vista, you know.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:51PM (3 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:51PM (#734324) Journal

      It's such a loser move to push your products on people like that.

      It's not "pushing", it's just suggesting. Remember when Microsoft was pushing suggesting people upgrade to Windows 10?

      Would you like to install Windows 10?
      [x] Yes
      [_] No

      [OK] [Cancel]

      To install Windows 10, please do any of the following actions:
      1. Click Yes, and OK.
      2. Close the window.
      3. Restart the computer
      4. Abruptly disconnect the computer's electrical power this instant, to have Windows 10 conveniently automatically installed on the next reboot.

      Thank you for choosing Windows 10!

      Coming Soon: this type of pushing suggesting done through web based advertisements, even for Linux and Mac users.

      --
      Scissors come in consumer packaging that cannot be opened without scissors.
      • (Score: 3, Touché) by stretch611 on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:07PM (2 children)

        by stretch611 (6199) on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:07PM (#734432)

        No, I do not remember that at all.

        Of course I have been using linux exclusively for the past 10 years. (10 years more with dual boot.)

        --
        Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday September 13 2018, @09:39PM

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 13 2018, @09:39PM (#734488) Journal

          I've been running Linux, for personal systems, since June 1999. At work I use Windows, it's provided, and I'm not responsible for maintaining it. And they do a good job.

          As for the "remember", really it is remember all the NEWS articles about the pushy Windows 10 installations. In some cases, users could not opt out even if they clicked NO. Doesn't No mean No?

          --
          Scissors come in consumer packaging that cannot be opened without scissors.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:22PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:22PM (#734832)

          You're telling us that, as a linux user, you are smugly ignorant of all the reasons that are supposed to make us envy you?

          You lie! You knew what was going on. That is why you replied and indicated you are smugly ignorant.

  • (Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:25PM (1 child)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:25PM (#734290)

    Seriously, why don't they just get it over with and lock the entire thing down only permitting genuine Microsoft(TM) applications? That is the way things are moving anyway. What kind of error will we get next trying to install Libre Office, or VLC?

    While they are at it, they should take away all user settings, replace TCP/IP networking with a new propriatary Microsoft technology, hard code it to only permit accessing authorized Microsoft web sites and internet services, forbid any third party software development for Windows, DRM Office document files so only Microsoft Office and related Microsoft products can open them (as if thier shit specs wern't enough), and forbid use of any hardware that doesn't come out of Microsoft itself.

    Then the rest of the world could finally go about switching to Linux or something else and Microsoft can close their doors for good.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:15PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:15PM (#734306)

      Go on dreaming. There are enough business customers locked in ( and vendors that sell it retail on their boxes ) that even if they did that, they would not simply vanish.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:36PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @03:36PM (#734294)

    It appears MS was not spanked hard enough during their anti-trust span.

    The other browser brands can offer a counter-popup: "Please ignore Microsoft's Edge spam; our browser is better. Nadella has no nads."

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by urza9814 on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:00PM

      by urza9814 (3954) on Thursday September 13 2018, @04:00PM (#734299) Journal

      The other browser brands should sue for libel. This is beyond M$'s past efforts to exploit their near monopoly; now they're not just abusing it to push their own garbage, they're also slandering the competition in the process. Let's see some actual evidence to back up those claims that Edge is more secure...

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:43PM (1 child)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday September 13 2018, @05:43PM (#734348) Journal

      It appears MS was not spanked hard enough during their anti-trust span.

      The Republicans let them off the hook. They weren't spanked at all last time.

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:26PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:26PM (#734379)

        Indeed. Last time I saw them convicted of monopoly abuse, they were allowed to pay their fine in MS software installations.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:19PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:19PM (#734373)

    Seriously, on my win10 work laptop edge won't open webpages, it launches IE for those. I think the only thing that opens in Edge itself are PDFs.

    Even typing "ie" into the start menu only shows Edge, but once open, if you type a url into it and hit enter it launches a new IE window. I don't understand windows at all.

    • (Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Thursday September 13 2018, @09:46PM (4 children)

      by cmdrklarg (5048) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 13 2018, @09:46PM (#734492)

      It is also extremely annoying when I want to install Adobe Reader or some other PDF viewer that I have to manually change it from Edge, with M$ begging me not to change it in the process.

      I just wonder if they will ever get a fucking clue and stop doing shit like this which will only irritate techs like me? I'm considering switching to some Linux distro, maybe dual boot or running a VM for the windows dependent stuff. Not quite enough straws to break my camel's back yet, but this is the kind of stuff that will do it.

      --
      Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @10:50PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @10:50PM (#734521)

        it seems windows 10 users have camelbacks made from adamantium ... or got a 10 kg bag of painkillers when they bought the preloaded computer so they dont feel the painwhen they cannot wiggle their toes.

      • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Friday September 14 2018, @03:04AM (2 children)

        by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Friday September 14 2018, @03:04AM (#734669)

        What version are you running that can't change the file association. I've only seen that issue on ancient (and now out of support) versions of Adobe Reader.

        • (Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Monday September 17 2018, @06:48PM (1 child)

          by cmdrklarg (5048) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 17 2018, @06:48PM (#736119)

          I'm running 1803, and installing Acrobat Reader DC. The first time you run Reader after install it will give you instructions on how to change the default PDF reader. Same thing with the default web browser, IIRC. It doesn't automatically change the file extension default application like it used to do.

          I will probably have to stick with W10 as it's part of my job to support it, but that doesn't mean I have to use it as my primary OS.

          --
          Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
          • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Tuesday September 18 2018, @02:43AM

            by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Tuesday September 18 2018, @02:43AM (#736349)

            I've seen the problem of Adobe Reader DC derping the file associations several times. The behavior is the first time you render the icon for a PDF file the OS recognizes that the association is set improperly you get a popup that says the associations have been reset. (...and of course it sets it back to Edge)

            My customers have fixed it one of two ways. One customer (an early adopter) changed the installer command line to tell it not to try to set the association. A later customer found that it was fixed in newer versions of DC.


            * Derp is, in this case, referring to changing the file association by writing directly to the HKLM/Software/Classes section of the registry instead of calling the appropriate APIs. This technique worked in older OS, but wasn't supported or recommended. Win 10 tries to protect users from malware that changes file associations by (I don't entirely recall the specifics) that prevents this behavior.**

            ** The goal is to help stop malware that e.g. installs hacked browsers (e.g. chromium***) and tries to trick/force users into using it so it can steal your data.

            *** I'm not picking on Chromium, that's just what the last malware I saw did.

  • (Score: 2) by nobu_the_bard on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:22PM (1 child)

    by nobu_the_bard (6373) on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:22PM (#734375)

    That pop-up should have a link showing their data proving the statement, or else don't even bother. If they're going to be that intrusive the user deserves proof to back up their statement.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by stretch611 on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:10PM

      by stretch611 (6199) on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:10PM (#734435)

      Yes but without any other browser able to be installed on the system, you will have to show it in IE or Edge... and they will not render web standards properly. =)

      --
      Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
  • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:42PM (1 child)

    by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday September 13 2018, @06:42PM (#734385)

    The intercepting of installers on Windows is a new low, however.

    I dunno, after that whole thing where they basically lied to users in an effort to trick them into upgrading to Windows 10 my expectations where Microsoft are concerned are basically zero.

    One would hope this is another decision that none of the developers actually agreed with, but management ignored their protestations. If not I have two demographics to be angry at.

    --
    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:02PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:02PM (#734429)

      The intercepting of installers on Windows is a new low, however.

      Apparently everything old is new again [wikipedia.org].

      This is not a new, gentler Microsoft. It's the same old rabid weasel, still pulling the same old dirty tricks.

  • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:28PM

    by Gaaark (41) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 13 2018, @07:28PM (#734412) Journal

    I'm still trying to figure out Windows 10 is...

    ...i knew there USED to be an operating system that was called Windows, but their maker used to fuck people around A LOT and i can't believe people still use their stuff.

    Maybe i'm wrong.... hmmm....

    --The future, today.

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
  • (Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:29PM

    by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:29PM (#734445) Journal

    "We know better about what you want in your computer than you do."

    --
    This sig for rent.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:47PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 13 2018, @08:47PM (#734450)

    the struggle to set Firefox as the default browser begins. I saw on a work computer running win10 that you could set Firefox as default but then win10 would silently revert back to IE or whatever. And you could do this as many times as you wanted to, with the same results. Beautiful and obviously not at all abusing monopoly position.

    I can kinda sorta understand kids using windows to play silly games. But how on earth can anybody be expected to work on windows?! I mean it fights you all the way.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by ElizabethGreene on Friday September 14 2018, @03:08AM

      by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Friday September 14 2018, @03:08AM (#734672)

      This might be your work enforcing a policy and not Window malfeasance. I've had Firefox as my default browser on Win10 for a very long time.

      In full disclosure, I work for Microsoft. My job as a PFE is to help support enterprise customers with group policies (among other things). I try to get my customers to set the default browser at build time and then leave it up to the user after that, but they don't always listen.

    • (Score: 2) by nobu_the_bard on Friday September 14 2018, @11:55AM (2 children)

      by nobu_the_bard (6373) on Friday September 14 2018, @11:55AM (#734790)

      I haven't had that problem. Have been using Opera as my default browser in Win10 for awhile now.

      However, it won't let me keep IE pinned to the taskbar. It's fine keeping Edge there, but the pinned IE icon doesn't seem to reliably survive reboots. I need it there as there's a lot of resources that don't render properly in Edge.

      • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Monday September 17 2018, @02:09AM (1 child)

        by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Monday September 17 2018, @02:09AM (#735828)

        there's a lot of resources that don't render properly in Edge

        If this is an enterprise-wide problem, Microsoft and Google both have technology to help redirect specific web pages back to IE that need it. For Edge its part of the Enterprise Mode Site List functionality. For Chrome it's the Legacy Browser Support plugin.

        I haven't seen any issues with pinning IE to the taskbar. Does your company enforce a start menu or taskbar layout via script or GPO? Out of the box the OS does not remove the link if it's pinned to the taskbar. That's not how it's supposed to work.

        (Full disclosure, I work for Microsoft as a PFE supporting enterprise customers. Yes, I know that makes my opinion invalid.)

        • (Score: 2) by nobu_the_bard on Monday September 17 2018, @11:50AM

          by nobu_the_bard (6373) on Monday September 17 2018, @11:50AM (#735934)

          Actually, did testing over the weekend, it doesn't seem to do this anymore deleting IE from the taskbar. Maybe it was previously fixed with a patch or a GPO causing it was corrected.

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