Pipe pressure before gas explosions was 12 times too high
The pressure in natural gas pipelines prior to a series of explosions and fires in Massachusetts last week was 12 times higher than it should have been, according to a letter from the state's U.S. senators to executives of the utility in charge of the pipelines.
Democratic U.S. Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Edward Markey sent the letter Monday seeking answers about the explosions from the heads of Columbia Gas, the company that serves the communities of Lawrence, Andover and North Andover, and NiSource, the parent company of Columbia Gas.
"The federal Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration has reported that the pressure in the Columbia Gas system should have been around 0.5 pounds per square inch (PSI), but readings in the area reached at least 6 PSI — twelve times higher than the system was intended to hold," the letter said.
The pressure spike registered in a Columbia Gas control room in Ohio, the senators said in the letter, which requests a reply by Wednesday.
See also: Columbia Gas pledges $10M toward relief efforts in Lawrence, Andover, North Andover
Previously: 60-80 Homes Burn; Gas Line "Incident" in Northern Massachusetts
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An estimated 60 to 80 fires, 3 explosions, and numerous gas leaks were reported last night in the towns around Lawrence, MA (north of Boston). The incident has been linked to lines operated by Columbia Gas of Massachusetts. Columbia Gas has not released an official cause yet, but MEMA (The Massachusetts Emergency Management Agency) and some of the local firefighters have speculated that the cause was an over-pressurized gas line. Columbia was conducting planned upgrades on the lines at the time of the incident. One person has been killed; 25 more have been injured.
I was listening to the fire radio as it happened and it sounded like complete chaos -- it was just the dispatch, but there was not a single moment of silence as they scrambled to get crews to all of the affected areas and coordinate the response across four separate towns (Lawrence, Andover, North Andover, and Methuen.) The local first responders were initially asking residents to shut off their gas lines; this quickly changed to calls for all Columbia Gas customers to evacuate, which then increased to an order for immediate evacuation of the entire area. Overnight police and fire officials were going door-to-door enforcing the evacuation, and it is not known at this time when residents may be allowed to return. The electric service has been shut down to the entire area to limit possible sources of ignition, and officials have stated there are over 8000 homes which need to be individually inspected before the residents can return.
So far, Columbia Gas has not provided any confirmation or explanation of the exact cause of this disaster...but I'm sure we've got some people here who have some speculation to offer...
The local Eagle Tribune has a number of articles with further information, and there's limited coverage in national sources like CNN.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:03PM (65 children)
"Democratic U.S. Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Edward Markey sent the letter Monday seeking answers..."
WTF business is it of theirs? Oh, elections coming up.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:33PM (18 children)
No, the real WTF is that this accident happened.
We've been using gas pipelines for decades. We know how to operate them safely. While the explosion could be the consequence of a novel situation or novel combination of factors, a genuine accident, I'd put money on it being negligence and greed. Someone got stupid and reckless to save a little money. Put untrained and underpaid minions on the job, or tried to cut corners on maintenance.
The oil industry is notorious for refusing to properly maintain their pipelines. This includes possibly their highest profile one, the famous Alaska Pipeline. It's why there's so much resistance to that Keystone XL pipeline. People know that Big Oil is full of reckless operators who don't give a crap what mess they make as long as someone else is stuck with the job of cleaning it up.
It most definitely is a situation for government and law enforcement. It's involuntary manslaughter at the least. Or do you not care that someone died and a lot more were injured?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by khallow on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:24PM (7 children)
"Possibly"? Maybe you shouldn't have name-dropped it then?
But since you mentioned it, we can take a look. This news story [adn.com] mentions the three largest leaks over a forty year period. Two were due to deliberate sabotage and the largest was a mere 16,000 barrels leaked. In that time, it's passed on [alyeska-pipe.com] almost 18 billion barrels of oil. If "Big Oil" were truly as sloppy as claimed, there'd be bigger accidents out there.
My bet is that the real reason is that the Keystone XL pipeline would significantly increase oil production from the big fields in the Dakotas and Alberta. That in turn would set back the Green agenda to stopping use of oil in a human lifetime. I doubt local environmental concerns were relevant to a majority of the resistance.
(Score: 1, Informative) by aristarchus on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:59PM (6 children)
Can you say "shill" louder, khallow? The Green Agenda is about to make you unemployed, and unemployable.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:13AM (5 children)
So what? The Alaska Pipeline's safety record doesn't change, if I'm getting my food pellets from Big Oil or Greenpeace. That's the nature of ad hominem fallacies.
(Score: 1, Informative) by aristarchus on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:32AM (4 children)
And what does that have to do with Massacheusetts? Why are you inserting your Big Oil paid comments into a discussion about NatGas and public utilities? The hominem here is you, khallow. Your intervention is suspect. You interject in bad faith. Your "facts" are irrelevant to the topic at hand. And your father smelt of elderberries!
(Score: 3, Touché) by khallow on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:44AM (3 children)
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:16AM (2 children)
Uh huh, you do not care, whichbis why you ALWAYS respond to such "bullshit". You are either a lazy worker, a lonely shut in, or a corporate shill. While the first two are amusing the last is certainly more likely.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:02AM (1 child)
Not always. aristarchus can do better. And I don't always respond to your AC posts, amirite?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:10PM
Uiswrong
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:36PM (4 children)
Yes, even more than decades: https://www.apga.org/apgamainsite/aboutus/facts/history-of-natural-gas [apga.org]
Around 1785 the British were using it.
Around 1816 Baltimore, MD, USA, used piped gas to light streets and homes.
Around 1836 Philadelphia, PA, USA started piping it into streetlights and homes.
So yes, it's been in use for a while and this was worked out long ago. As I comment further down, there should be pressure regulators at each building, and 60 PSI street pressure at regulator inlet is okay, so there's more to this story...
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:46PM (3 children)
That depends on your definition of "Natural Gas"
"Around 1785, the British used natural gas produced from coal to light houses and streets."
I remember when the UK converted from "coal gas" to "natural gas". When did the definition of "natural gas" change to include gas produced form coal?
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:05AM (2 children)
I don't know, I gave you a link. Personally I don't like the vague terms, but I understand the history / legacy.
The point of my post was to say that people have been piping some kind of flammable gas into buildings not just for decades, but more than 200 years, so whatever caused this huge disaster hasn't been revealed yet.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Wednesday September 19 2018, @06:44PM (1 child)
OK, your point was made about the infrastructure. I was just nit-picking.
The legacy of coal gas (also known as town gas) can still be seen in the UK, in the form of abandoned gas holders, such as this one:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Gasometer_in_East_London.jpg [wikimedia.org]
They were also known as "gasometers". The tank expanded and contracted as it was filled and emptied. The pressure must have been quite low.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:30PM
Nit-picking implies that I have nits. Nit-hunting I'll grant you, but you'll come up empty. :-}
Thank you for that link and pic. Wow, I don't know if I'm more intrigued or scared! Surely there were some mishaps?
Stateside, "natural gas" is pretty much methane and odor added. "Coal gas" has hydrogen, CO, and other stuff with the methane, but I know you know that. I guess the good thing is: if you have a coal gas leak in your house, you'll die of CO before you're burned up.
A somewhat interesting (to me anyway) item, reminiscent of the doomed Mars Climate Orbiter, is that I've always heard (common misconception) that gas pressure inside of homes is 4 PSI. Turns out, it's supposed to be 4 ounces per square inch. I've never measured it, certainly never tried to set it.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:48AM
This is not big oil.
And even people who get paid millions of dollars a year with decades of safety processes still make mistakes. Pilots with tens of thousands of hours of experience in one of the most highly regulated industries still make mistakes. World leading experts make mistakes.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:29AM (2 children)
I looked at buying a piece of land in Texas with about 1/4 mile of petroleum pipeline running through it. Common advice was: all pipelines leak, the question is: how much and what. Gas is not so bad unless it catches your woods on fire. The heavier petroleum won't leak too fast or far, but the more refined stuff can make a pretty good mess.
Turns out that the pipeline was the least of that property's worries, a superfund site was leaching lead from a sham battery recycling operation a couple of miles away and the bloom was poisoning the groundwater over most of the property.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:09PM (1 child)
A pipeline paying you passive income for the easement would have been a feature, not a bug, but, yeah, lead in the ground water is a deal killer.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:14PM
As I recall, the pipeline lease income didn't pay a significant fraction of the property tax, but... yeah, and selling mineral rights is pretty popular in East Texas, too.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:02PM
An oil spill would improve North Dakota. It's that beautiful.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 5, Informative) by urza9814 on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:33PM (45 children)
They do represent the state where this occurred. Granted, it isn't necessarily a federal matter, but they may be looking to create some legislation to protect their constituents from similar events in the future. And they can't really even consider that without knowing what actually happened. So yeah, if they weren't at least trying to find out what happened then I'd be calling them downright incompetent. This is *exactly* the kind of thing they're supposed to be doing.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:37PM (44 children)
They don't have the legal authority to do anything about it except set an EPA fine. They're just grandstanding.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:49PM (23 children)
We could use more grandstanding of this sort, about real problems that are serious and really happened!
(Score: 1, Redundant) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:52PM (22 children)
From people who can do fuck-all about them, care fuck-all about them, and are only doing so to slime their way to a few more votes? Yeah, that's exactly what we need.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:13PM (11 children)
Well since that is all we've got I'll gladly take a senator bothering to give a shit about the problem. Maybe they really care, maybe they really don't, but if it helps generate enough noise to get something done then you can go fuck yourself. Well, more than usual and with something rusty preferably.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:32PM (8 children)
It won't help shit. They're sucking attention from the people who have actual authority and responsibility to do something about it. Why cover a mayor or governor when a senator is giving you pomp and circumstance? Who cares if they're utterly impotent in the matter?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:48AM (7 children)
To be maybe a little more fair - congress and the senate has authority. They can, in theory at least, pass laws regulating the gas distribution industry. They *could* mandate that gas lines and accessories are inspected every year, and that all gas distribution be made safe for 20, 60, or even 120 PSI. Congress is pretty nearly the "ultimate" authority in the US, and they could do a lot of things, if they weren't divided by petty partisan politics.
Of course, none of that is ever going to happen. I'm merely pointing out that congress does have authority to do damned near anything it wants. And, if it really wants to do anything that it lacks authority for, it can do one of two things:
1. Make some mealy-mouthed wishy washy explanation that some puppet judges will go along with, as they did with interstate commerce laws.
2. Call for and push for a constitutional convention, which will give them the authority they demand.
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:19AM (6 children)
No, they really don't. It would be a huge stretch of EPA authority to do much of anything about a specific local utility. Likewise any other federal power granted to congress. Even then, they can only do something about next time; this time is constitutionally beyond their reach.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Wednesday September 19 2018, @06:47PM (1 child)
I don't believe you can say this with any authority.
The Interstate Commerce clause is like Schroedinger's box. You cannot tell what's in it until the Supreme Court rules and the court has been pretty inconsistent in the past.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:36AM
Oh I can say what's in it. Anyone who reads it and doesn't feel like lying to themselves can easily tell it's been abused like a motherfucker every time SCOTUS got the chance. With authority though? Only the authority every other American has.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @10:06PM (3 children)
But, that's the beauty of the system. Congress may not address some specific utility service, in some specific town/city, directly. But, they CAN use that city as an example of how horribly things can go wrong. From there, they CAN pass specific laws which will be applicable nationwide. Or, they CAN send some sternly worded letters to various people around the country, demanding that the EPA, and the various states, and/or the various cities "take action, before we do". In the long run, it's probably more efficient to send those sternly worded letters. They scare hell out of (almost) everyone who gets them, and THOSE people are actually in a position to know how to improve things. That, or they appointed the people who actually know.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:38AM (2 children)
You're really going to sit there and argue that Congress should abuse its position to usurp via proxy powers specifically denied them by the constitution? I thought better of you.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 20 2018, @09:12AM (1 child)
Negative.
I am, instead, arguing that congress may do such a thing, as it has already done with the interstate commerce bullshit, as opposed to should. Congress is in a position that they have already committed unconstitutional acts, and there is little to prevent them from doing similar things in the future.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 20 2018, @10:31AM
Fair nuff.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:17AM (1 child)
Just like when they spent all that time investigating steroid use in baseball.
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/teachers/featured_articles/20050318friday.html [nytimes.com]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:21AM
Pretty much, yes. They at least had a very weak leg to stand on there having previously abused federal power to grant favors to the league though. Here, they have none.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Touché) by bob_super on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:13PM (9 children)
"Dear elected official, 80 homes just burnt down in your constituency, apparently because someone fucked up the pressure of the explosive gas they deliver to populated areas by an order of magnitude and no safety mechanism tripped."
"Fuck off, TMB said it's not my problem!"
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:33PM (8 children)
s/Fuck off.*/Call the mayor or governor, I have no authority over it./
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:42PM (1 child)
Pretty sure a mayor will "hop to it" when a senator pomes their head in.
But hey, that is talking about humanity and not PERL scripts so i understand your confusion.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:23AM
You think? They're a pretty shitty mayor then.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by aristarchus on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:02AM (5 children)
I was under the impression that TMB was in charge of high-pressure gas. Was I mistaken? Is this another situation where we need to let the market decide who explodes, and keep government hands off our private exploded pieces?
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:54AM (1 child)
Once again, we see Aristarchus trolling a conversation, with some mindless sycophant partisan modding him up repeatedly.
Dear Mindless Partisan,
You are a worse problem than the idiot Aristarchus. Kindly eliminate yourself from the earth, ASAP.
- Concerned Soylentil
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:22AM
Fuck off. I modded him up for that one. It was pretty funny.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:06PM
Something tells me he never lets his gas build up to high pressures.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday September 19 2018, @02:37PM (1 child)
I dunno if "high-pressure gas" is exactly what the guy's dealing in, Ari...something tangentially related, maybe, and for sure under high pressure though.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @05:16PM
Nice. +1 Funny for you as well.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Aegis on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:14PM (8 children)
Someone tell that to Don Blankenship [mining.com]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:36PM (7 children)
That case had arguable federal jurisdiction because of MSHA. This does not. Your argument is retarded.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:18AM
Takes one to no one
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:56AM (3 children)
Interstate commerce almost certainly applies. If farmers can be penalized for growing the wrong crops on their land under interstate commerce law, then gas companies can be held liable for safety standards under those same laws.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:24AM (2 children)
One blatant abuse of the commerce clause does not justify another.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Wednesday September 19 2018, @06:49PM (1 child)
Tell that to the judges on the Supreme Court, because they have used that abuse as justification for many more abuses.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:41AM
I'd have to tell it to them at my trial if I ever met them. Law enforcement types frown on clocking SCOTUS Justices and then pissing on them after they hit the ground.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday September 19 2018, @05:47PM (1 child)
That case had arguable federal jurisdiction because of MSHA. This does not. Your argument is retarded.
Yeah, the federal Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration doesn't have federal jurisdiction.... Your argument is retarded.
Also, PHMSA is part of the DOT, not the EPA.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:47AM
Grand, so congress has illegally purloined authority in this area. I won't even argue that. I'll instead refer you to the fact that they can do fuck-all about what has already happened (they have zero executive or judicial powers). Then I'll inform you, again, that they are fucking grandstanding and taking both the heat and the spotlight off the people who are actually responsible and have power to get things done. All for political gain. You have no argument.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Informative) by urza9814 on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:29PM (9 children)
What? The Senate and Congress in general are the ones responsible for *creating* agencies like the EPA! The EPA merely enforces the laws that Congress enacts. If the Senate wants to take action, they can pass a law about it. If they don't have the authority to do that, then the EPA certainly doesn't have the authority to do a damn thing either. They're both part of the federal government, they both cover the same jurisdiction. The EPA enforces the law; but the Senate and House create that law in the first place.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:38PM (8 children)
I did mention the EPA. Yes, they can absolutely pass new environmental laws going forward but they can't do a damned thing about what happened. See Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution as to why.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:05AM (5 children)
Ex post facto? Really? (Or bill of attainder...?) That's what you read in GP's comment?
*sigh* from up there....
I don't understand why you're triggered, but you're obviously triggered. Was it Elizabeth Warren that triggered you?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:35AM
Yes, I believe it was. Not the first time, by the way.
(for true Hilarity, try throwing a "Pelosi" at him the next time! Wear a rain poncho, though. )
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @11:26AM (3 children)
You might want to pay more attention. You can't seem to tell the difference between triggered and barely interested.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:41PM (2 children)
Barely interested!
Oh my.... I needed a good laugh this morning. You're quite the comedian.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:17PM (1 child)
Hey! His life might just be so exciting and acyion packed that camping SN threads to pontificate on senator's reactions to a small tragedy barely registers. Probably doing it between celebrity stalker emails and his scheming with khallow in #villains4cheep
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @05:17PM
Or it's what I always do while drinking my morning coffee...
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by urza9814 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @02:09PM (1 child)
OK, so let's suppose they do want to pass a law to prevent this in the future. You claim that the details about how it happened this time are none of their damn business, so how exactly are they supposed to prevent it in the future without knowing how it happened in the past?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 19 2018, @05:27PM
In fact, no. That is a valid concern of theirs if they can manage to weasel their way into having some authority over what is primarily a local matter. Should they manage that, they need to grab a big ole cup of Shut The Fuck Up until those with primary responsibility and authority have done their jobs. Then, by all means, hold hearings focused specifically on what they have the authority to do something about. Grabbing the microphone away from the people who are actually in charge and might bear actual responsibility for the sake of getting on camera is a dick move though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:34AM
Politicians, grandstanding - brought to you by the redundant department of redundancy department.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:18PM (5 children)
If the usual pressure was around half a lb, there must have been some safety margin above that which corresponds to the pressure "the system was intended to hold". So I doubt it was really 12x higher than the rated pressure.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:25PM
Or, the gas company cheaped out and didn't install the correct safety measures.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:28PM
I've done some gas pipe work and I'm not expert but I know that buildings normally have gas pressure regulators between the street supply pipes and the internal piping. From this https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Gas_Pressures.php [inspectapedia.com] we see that street pressure can be as much as 60 PSI, and LP gas in a tank could be more than 200 PSI.
Were there regulators on those houses?
If not, why not?
If so, did they fail?
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:39AM (1 child)
Rated != Intended to hold.
The insulation on new romex that's installed in houses here in the US is good to at least 300V, some rated to 600V, even though it only supplies 120V. It would therefore NOT be misleading to say, "Owner electrocuted by 4x the voltage that his 120V circuit was intended to supply" if I was somehow shocked by 480V because of some mishap by the power company (relatively impossible, but just saying.)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:21PM
I understand (well) your analogy, but it's not the same. As I mention in an above comment, buildings have gas pressure regulators, but not voltage regulators / limiters. There is no required thing in building electrical systems which could limit voltage. "Surge suppressors" / line conditioners exist, including large / whole-building ones, but they're not required nor common nor "standard operating practice".
I'm beginning to wonder if they did not have gas pressure regulators at each house, but relied on one big one for many homes. I hope that's not the case. Due to varying demand, pressures could vary at the appliance, and could drop enough to cause a flame-out, but the appliance would continue to vent raw gas into the home, and boom.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:32AM
The 'doubts' of an AC are insignificant to reported measurements
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Snotnose on Tuesday September 18 2018, @10:23PM (2 children)
It was all those green lib'rulz trying to put methane back into the system, instead of just burning it off like they did as teenagers.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:03PM
Nah, it was the Rrrussians meddling with the gauges and sitting on the overpressure valves.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Thursday September 20 2018, @12:14AM
buncha humorless mods today :(
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:04PM (6 children)
FFS, I ejaculate with more pressure than that.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:15PM
but at least when you unexpectedly blow your load there is no one around to worry about it
(Score: 1, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:29PM (4 children)
They're saying, 6 pounds. Supposed to be half a pound. Pressure much too high. Because the Gas Company made a mistake. Trying to get that gas to the folks that need it. They tried a little too hard, right? Our thoughts & prayers are with the survivors & the families.
And, by the way, taxes are much too high too. Crime, much too high. Look what happened at the Boston Marathon. Lots of innocent children, and people, killed. Massachusetts needs DEATH PENALTY. But you don't hear about any of that from the Boston Globe, which was sold to the the Failing New York Times for 1.3 BILLION DOLLARS (plus 800 million dollars in losses & investment), or 2.1 BILLION DOLLARS, was then sold by the Times for 1 DOLLAR. Now the Globe is in COLLUSION with other papers on free press. PROVE IT!
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:37AM (3 children)
You say that MA should have the death penalty. Now tell me, what are the chances that anyone at Columbia Gas will get the death penalty for this tragedy? My answer is *zero*. What if the accident happened in a state that does have the death penalty? Same answer.
From personal experience (in another state), Columbia will do the barest minimum for their customers. I say kudos for the Senators getting involved and keeping this in the news cycle. Keep the pressure on this sleazy public utility, and the state regulators that are supposed to be monitoring the utility.
Oh, and the $10M that Columbia pledged is chicken feed, divide by 80 houses and that's $125K per household. Not enough to rebuild a house & pay rent for the family while the house is being reconstructed, or, for that matter pay medical expenses for anyone badly burned.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:44PM (2 children)
It's always seemed the most mind-boggling contradiction to me.
Crime and punishment types... all about punishment, lock them up, throw away the key, off with their heads. Accountability! Responsibility! Except when a corporation does it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:22PM
It sort of makes sense, proper punishment would probably cost jobs. No one wants to hurt the "ecomony".
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:26PM
You use exactly the right words, and that's very important. It's not "crime and justice"; it's crime and *punishment*. They don't want rehabilitation, they don't want restitution, they want REVENGE. It's not about obeying the law, at least not directly; nor is it about morality or society; it's purely about obeying those in authority. It's not a contradiction because they don't care what the law says, they only care what some particular authority figure says. If that authority figure is the one that fucked up, then they can just say that they didn't, and all those crime and punishment types will immediately start blaming anyone who disagrees.
This is also why you tend to find a lot of racists in that mix -- they merely want to preserve the existing power structures, and see any efforts to promote diversity, integration, or equality as a threat to that existing order.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by PinkyGigglebrain on Tuesday September 18 2018, @11:58PM (3 children)
How long till someone starts saying the pressure control/regulation systems were hacked by some state (China, N.Korea, Russia, etc) sponsored group?
I does seem odd that the pressure could get so high without some alarm or safety system somewhere kicking in but it could still be just a string of bad luck. I've seen oil refineries go BOOM because of an over pressure in some subsystem that the safety systems couldn't handle, then causing a leak that found an ignition source. No hacking involved, just some outdated equipment due for replacement that had quietly failed earlier than expected.
I look forward to the results of the investigation.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by Fluffeh on Wednesday September 19 2018, @01:32AM
Pretty sure the rest of your post just said that exactly.
When you start looking at old infrastructure, it really is quite amazing how few alarms and or safety features are in place, the older, the less chance of this type of thing. Given how pressure works in localised environments the pressure in one place doesn't mean the same pressure in others. Even a tiny system like a workshop compressed air system has large fluctuations in use -wWhen using an air sprayer with some wood finish, you can hear the air still rushing through pipes for a few seconds after flipping the trigger from spray to nothing. Imagine that on a city/county scale instead of a single workshop!
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:40PM
According to TFS:
So it seems like there's three options:
1) They saw it too late. Alarms went off, but it was after shit was already exploding or past some point of no return so they couldn't do anything about it by that point. Although that doesn't necessarily mean that it couldn't have been prevented with more/better monitoring and automation.
2) Alarms went off on some unmonitored system so nobody noticed...which would be pretty damning
3) Alarms went off and were deliberately ignored...which would be even worse
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Wednesday September 19 2018, @06:20PM
I've read about an industrial explosion of a reactor vessels where the isolation valves used to isolate a runaway reaction also isolated the relief valves. Monumental design fuck up.
And that was my first thought when I read this, where was the relief valve? Granted this is natural gas but there is no reason to not include a relief valve.
The pressure regulator is most likely not on the internet. Knowing upgrade adverse utilities; it's probably a neglected rusty lump in some mahole pit which became clogged or jammed by dirt or debris and failed to regulate allowing the pressure to build. No one noticed and appliances are usually designed for no more than 0.5 PSI (3.4 kPa) operating pressure. It's possible that that caused leaks in appliances or old gas plumbing that was just about holding back the half pound of pressure like an elderly man holding back his bowels after eating Indian for the first time.
(Score: 2, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:32AM
Massachusetts, they had an explosion. Little mistake by the Gas Company. Now @SenMarkey [twitter.com] is all over it. And @SenWarren [twitter.com] is all over it. I call her Pocahontas, she says she's Indian. Well, she doesn't look Indian to me and she doesn't look Indian to Indians.
We love safety, we want VERY SAFE energy. All kinds of energy, the gas. Coal -- Clean Coal, so important. Nuclear, we just had Hurricane Florence and our nuclear had ZERO problems. PERFECTO, so beautiful. Oil, we're doing the Bayou Bridge Pipeline to bring that wonderful oil where we need it. Wind & solar, frankly I don't know if those can be safe. Not for our birds, so many eagles and birds dieing. Falling from the sky. The White-throated Needletail, so sad. But if we can make them safe we'll do the wind & solar too. By the way, I put a tariff on the solar so we'll have the money for that. So nice of our Dem Senators to tell the Gas Company, "oh, your pressure was too high, try less pressure and you'll be much safer." Nice letter, very informative.
But, what about the sharks? One guy killed in this Gas Explosion in the Merrimack Valley. And, one guy killed in a HORRIBLE Shark Attack at Cape Cod. Also Massachusetts. But you don't hear about that one from the Fake News MSM. And you don't see our Dem Senators writing beautiful letters about it. Or doing anything at all. They could do the nets -- Australia, they have shark nets everywhere, they do a tremendous job. They could do the Depth Charge. You drop the Depth Charge, up come the sharks. Totally stunned, very easy to take them out. You do the harpoon, goodbye sharks. Don Jr. -- my son -- tremendous shark fisherman. And possibly I'll send him with my Coast Guard. And the Depth Charge. To make the wonderful waters of Massachusetts safe again!!! youtu.be/8wWkJJv95ss [youtu.be] foxnews.com/us/2018/09/15/man-bitten-by-shark-in-cape-cod-waters-has-died-police-say.html [foxnews.com] foxnews.com/travel/2018/09/17/waters-closed-following-cape-cod-shark-attack-beach-manager-says-people-will-need-to-use-common-sense-after-fatal-incident.html [foxnews.com]
(Score: 2) by dltaylor on Wednesday September 19 2018, @02:58AM (1 child)
Between these deaths and this destruction, and what happened to San Bruno, California, there need to be criminal penalties for mis-operation of these gas lines. Manslaughter, at least, for the managers and operators responsible. If that has to happen at the federal level (since the operators seem to have states in their pockets), so be it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @12:26PM
I don't think that makes oversight any more effective. It only shifts whose pockets the payoffs flow into. It probably also boosts the amount of the payoffs, since state-level operators can generally be had on the cheap. Those payoffs, in turn, get passed on to the customers, because why should the operator suffer a hit to their profit margins to pay for the bribes they need to pay to protect their profit margins?
In theory, local oversight should be best because those people have the most incentive to make sure gas pipelines don't explode and burn down their homes and kill their children. But that tends to not work, either, because out of the set of people who care about what government is doing on a daily basis, those who care about what local government is doing is miniscule, as in, you can count them on one hand and have fingers left over miniscule.
In essence it's a tragedy born of misaligned incentives. Any time you can use a vehicle like a corporation to produce individual gains while shielding them from individual responsibility, you are going to have corruption.
The only way to put an emphatic end to corruption and events like these is to make the CEOs and top officers of companies personally liable for the actions (or lack of actions) their companies take. Think what a difference it would have made, in the wake of the subprime mortgage crisis, if everyone from the C-suite down to mid-level managers at the banks had had all their personal wealth and assets seized to make restitution to their victims, and then been thrown into jail for 20 years or executed for malfeasance.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Informative) by tangomargarine on Wednesday September 19 2018, @03:07PM (2 children)
Article should be commended for how consistently they managed to fuck up the scalar.
6 = 12 * 0.5
12 is 11 times higher than its rating. You include the base. Alternately, you could say "it was 12 times as high as it should have been."
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 19 2018, @05:40PM (1 child)
Incorrect, it is 1100% higher, but when dealing with terms like "times higher" it is generally seen as a simple multiply.
That is, two times higher is 100% higher. One times higher isn't really a thing you ever hear.
There is some interesting discussion on:
https://www.englishforums.com/English/ThreeTimesHigherThan/nzqzw/post.htm [englishforums.com]
But I would say that the general consensus is that 6 times higher == 6 times as high.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday September 19 2018, @05:47PM
The general consensus is wrong, then. Words mean defined things. #goddamndescriptivists #getoffmylawn
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"