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posted by CoolHand on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:08PM   Printer-friendly
from the slow-n-easy dept.

New Atlas:

It's quick, it's quiet, and it's covered in 300 square meters (3,229 sq ft) of solar panels. The 78-ft (24-m) electric SolarImpact yacht is a concept designed as the first of its kind – an ocean-going solar-powered yacht. An 800-kWh battery on board gives it 10 hours of cruising capability, which can be extended by topping up the battery when the Sun's shining.

The yacht's giant solar array, which covers the vast majority of its upward-facing surfaces, can generate up to 320 kWh a day if they're getting lots of sun. They can serve as the vessel's sole power source if conditions allow, and you're prepared to take your time.

Although this 70-ton aluminum-hulled beast boasts 1,000 kW (1,341 hp) of all-electric power and has an impressive maximum speed of 22 knots, if you're running all the regular systems solely on solar, you will be able to cruise indefinitely, but only at a slow 5 knots – which would take you around the world in about six months if there wasn't a whole lot of land in the way.

Sea-steaders, rejoice!


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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by suburbanitemediocrity on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:14PM (16 children)

    by suburbanitemediocrity (6844) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:14PM (#737175)

    I did the numbers once for a solar powered boat and it's a feat they got it to do anything.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by VLM on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:23PM (2 children)

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:23PM (#737196)

      You got modded funny but I did the same math and got the same result.

      I think anyone who's ever seen a sailboat with a solar panel, some batteries, and an electric trolling motor has had a "hmm" moment, leading to some math, leading to "this isn't going to work..."

      It does work if your range is, say, half a mile across the harbor. Purists will make fun of you for not trying that under sail or being patient enough to wait thru a calm, but more pragmatic people are "f it" and use the trolling motor, leading to "I wonder if the solar panel could run that dude 12 hours per day"

      I also remember I made a pitiful attempt at "righting moments of inertia" or that stability plot of angle of heel vs righting force or whatever its called and putting thousands of pounds on the roof of a sailboat usually did nothing for stability statistics. The center of balance is usually belowdecks for most ships (lobsta trawlers maybe exception?) so you can't go by sheer bulk capacity alone.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:33PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:33PM (#737204)

        If you pack on enough batteries (preferably down low), a solar system can charge them all week long and give you a couple of hours of cruising on the weekend. Without a sail, forget it (or charge off dock power all night long.)

        Also, bring a checkbook, no way you can safely transport all the $100 bills required to pay for such a system.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 20 2018, @07:56PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 20 2018, @07:56PM (#737694)

        I seem to recall something about solar fabrics, targeted at generating electricity with clothing, but could "solar canvas" be used for sails? Would a turbine (spun by water) generating energy while sails are deployed lead to too much drag or some other kind of instability? Personally, I've been waiting for some of Harry Harrison's ideas to be implemented...

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:24PM (11 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:24PM (#737197)

      I "do the numbers" for electric vehicles every couple of years.

      20 years back it was basically no-go, at least for what I would call a practical use case (car, boat, whatever...)

      15 years back (lithium batteries starting to show up in production quantities) it became more a case of "sure, you can do it, but how much are you willing to spend on something that's barely practical to use?"

      10 years back the supporting technologies started coming together to the point that you could buy more integrated systems "off the shelf" and make things go with less detailed engineering. Costs for any vehicle I would want still were running $100K+ just for the motors, batteries, controllers and charging circuitry.

      5 years back costs were coming down, but the cost for my "custom conversion" car was still about the same in parts as to buy a Tesla Roadster new, for similar performance.

      Sailboats are "almost there" today, if you only need the motor for marina maneuvering. If you intend to run significant distances on electric power, I've heard figures quoted like: 1kWh per mile cruised at 1/2 hull speed for something like a 17000lb 34' sailboat. 1/2 hull speed is not even 4 knots, so that's not going to be an attractive replacement for diesel (for me) until there's upwards of 25kWh of storage onboard, and unless you're scrounging used batteries lithium costs about $500/kWh, the PowerWall is a good deal at $5900 for (advertised) 13.5kWh useable capacity, but... if you're wanting to run a 12.5kW motor, you'll need qty. 3: 5kW PowerWalls, installed cost > $18K, and a weight > 825 lbs just for the batteries, about the same as a full 100 gallon tank of diesel, for something like 5% of the range. Even some of the people who sell regen kits on the sailboat motors will tell you: regen doesn't usually work too well, or at all, in most existing sailboat prop-drive configurations. Solar works, and is improving dramatically, but 100 square feet of solar panels only gives 1.4kW, and if you want the fancy flexible direct-on-hull solar panels that you can walk on that 1.4kW (totaling an average of ~5.6kWh/day) would run about $16K. So, if you're O.K. with 18K for batteries that might carry you 40 miles in calm water (much less with any headwinds/waves), 16K for solar panels that will take a week to charge them, a 12.5kW motor, charger and controllers at $6K-12K shouldn't be too much for you. At this point, we're just about as heavy as a typical diesel powerplant, but with tremendously reduced range, max power, and a cost upwards of $45K (equivalent new diesel power, tanks and all, should run less than $15K, installed.)

      But, the solar cells charge the batteries "for free", yeah, 2000 times, and then it's time to replace the pack. If you've spent $18K on your battery pack, that's $9 per discharge cycle, or about the equivalent of 3 gallons of diesel which could have given you more flexibility, and higher max power.

      Still, the silent, fume free drive system is a big thing, I love my e-bikes, even the cheesy Sondors Original (which has a practical heavy assist e-range of about 10 miles at 20mph.)

      As for this mega-yacht, hull speed is much better due to the length - closer to 12 knots, and cubic dollars don't seem to be an issue. By covering the whole top surface in solar, they're possibly at break-even for a slow cruise, on a sunny day. Like the bikes, if I had the money, I'd get one just for the grins.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:42PM (1 child)

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:42PM (#737210)

        I've heard figures quoted like: 1kWh per mile cruised at 1/2 hull speed for something like a 17000lb 34' sailboat.

        Here's how to verify the numbers: A 30-footer will probably have around 10HP to reach hull speed and speed is non-linear with power so I could totally see a mere couple HP pushing a cruiser up to half hull speed. So if 3 HP pushes the thing up to 4 knots for an hour, thats about right, 1 kWh per mile.

      • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:53PM (6 children)

        by deimtee (3272) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:53PM (#737254) Journal

        Even some of the people who sell regen kits on the sailboat motors will tell you: regen doesn't usually work too well, or at all, in most existing sailboat prop-drive configurations.

        I'm assuming a regen kit uses wind to push the boat, which drives the propeller connected to a generator.
        If you did optimise for power generation on a sailboat, ie. larger prop, slower RPM, higher torque etc, how much power could you generate? Just thinking about it, it seems like it could be significant.
        You have a large sail area to catch the force of the wind and ground based hydroelectric generators get around 90% efficiency.

        --
        If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday September 20 2018, @01:55AM (5 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday September 20 2018, @01:55AM (#737334)

          In theory, quite a lot. In practice, you're not often "overpowered" by the wind, so usually any power you extract from the prop will translate to lower speed through the water - in high enough wind conditions where hull-speed is the limiting factor regen gets a whole lot more attractive since it won't significantly slow progress.

          Then, there's the fact that existing props and shafts are placed and designed to push the boat, not to catch passing water and generate power from it. Not common on sailboats, but a jet drive is an excellent extreme example of a propulsion unit that can move the vessel forward quite well, but extract energy from the vessel moving through the water quite poorly. Of course, common on sailing boats, feathering props won't generate any power at all, by design. But, if you go for a fixed prop and put up with the extra drag even when not generating, you can probably get a few kW while underway at near hull speed (~7 knots), particularly if you have a planetary gearset which can re-gear to optimize generation from the passing water.

          All in all, solar is a whole lot less fuss, and even wind turbines seem to be more popular/practical than sail-power prop-shaft generation.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
          • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:53AM (4 children)

            by deimtee (3272) on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:53AM (#737360) Journal

            But what if you didn't care about going slow, and were just going to cruise across the ocean mining bitcoin? :)

            I actually meant a design that was optimised to extract power. Something like a catamaran where the bit between the hulls funnels into a turbine. If the funnel/turbine were lightweight and retractable, you could charge your batteries when you weren't in a hurry and still have nearly full speed when you were.

            --
            If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:53PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:53PM (#737520)

              One of the reasons that boats don't sink anymore is that, due to weather forecasting, they usually have enough time to get out of the way. Sailboats can do about 100-200nm/day under sail or power. Speed is counted as a safety feature, and you need lot of them.

            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday September 21 2018, @02:24AM (2 children)

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday September 21 2018, @02:24AM (#737940)

              Yes, you could. I still think that solar cells plastered to the top surfaces are a lot less fuss and bother, for better gain in anyplace I'd want to be sailing (yes, above the arctic circle in winter the wind powered generators will win, but... who wants to go there?)

              --
              🌻🌻 [google.com]
              • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Friday September 21 2018, @06:11PM (1 child)

                by deimtee (3272) on Friday September 21 2018, @06:11PM (#738283) Journal

                Solar cells are great where you have a lot of surface to mount them on. There is a specific use case I was thinking of. I know some people who go somewhere between 2 and 20 km off the coast, slowly drift along fishing for most of the day, then go home arriving just before dark.
                Each day they do this, it costs them fifty to a hundred dollars (AUD). Over their average two week holiday, they spend more than a thousand on fuel, plus there is all the weekends they take the boat out.

                --
                If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
                • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday September 21 2018, @09:36PM

                  by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday September 21 2018, @09:36PM (#738365)

                  The short answer is: if they're spending 50 to 100 AUD on fuel, they'll be spending a VERY large multiple of that on batteries to hold the energy of the fuel, and the batteries will end up weighing quite a bit more.

                  If money is the problem: get a trawler and be content to motor at 15kph or so - they might spend an extra hour each way on the travel time, but their fuel cost would drop by a factor of 5 to 10. Odds are, they could motor their current fishing boat at 15kph and dramatically reduce their fuel consumption - it's just that the trawlers are designed to travel like that so "feel" a bit better while doing it, and can also be quite comfy on the inside...

                  Around here, boats like this: https://www.boattrader.com/listing/1991-albin-32-sportfisher-twin-diesel-103160017/ [boattrader.com] in good running condition but less than stellar cosmetics occasionally come down under $20K asking...

                  --
                  🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Thursday September 20 2018, @09:31AM (1 child)

        by suburbanitemediocrity (6844) on Thursday September 20 2018, @09:31AM (#737423)

        I used to sail a bit and hope to again someday and technology is not 'almost there'.

        Batteries have nothing to do with it, it's all about energy density from solar panels...about 100w/m^2 max, People I've listened to who do long distance cruising have to ration power to keep their autopilot alive and most use a passive windvane steering mechanism. You might get half hull speed on a calm day, but a headwind on the surface area of a boat will push you backwards, sail or not. Hove to boat can drift tens of miles overnight.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday September 21 2018, @02:32AM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday September 21 2018, @02:32AM (#737942)

          There are some devotees who claim it's awesome stuff. I think they mostly charge up their battery banks from shore power and just use the electric auxillary for docking / undocking maneuvers.

          We've been looking at buying a cruising yacht (either sail or a diesel trawler) and you see all kinds of stuff where people have setup solar and wind generators and hear all these great stories about what they can do, but... it's about all that a $300 solar panel can do to charge up a cellphone on a sunny day. A/C is an interesting use case: 16000 BTU draws ~1.5kW, which you might get out of 300 sq ft of solar panels, so... if the sun is shining really hot, you just might be able to fire up the heat exchanger and reject some heat (and humidity) out of your cabin air into the sea - if you've got 30' x 10' of surface to put the panels on (and about $50K for the fancy walk-on solar panels....) Of course, a little 6kW diesel generator charging up a battery bank could do the job for less than half the cost, for 10+ years.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:36PM

      by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:36PM (#737240)

      Article doesn't say, but it looks like a catamaran, so it should be much more efficient than standard single hull.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by jmorris on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:44PM (3 children)

    by jmorris (4844) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @07:44PM (#737186)

    This thing has a backup diesel engine tucked away. The solar is nice for show, for coming in and leaving port when people can see it and be impressed with the extreme virtue of the owner. It might even produce enough power to run the onboard electrical system. But since the batteries are only good for a couple of hours, less than one at full throttle, they would never have installed that much engine without some way of delivering power to it reliably for more than a few minutes. And they don't even mention how much the solar adds to the sticker price, because in this case it probably doesn't matter. Anyone rich enough to get close enough to "kick the tires" on this thing is going to have the disposable income to consider the virtue worth it.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:30PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:30PM (#737203)

      Walk-on solar panels [emarineinc.com] can be had for about $150 per square foot today. The article says ~3,230 square feet of solar cells, so figure a cool 1/2 mil+ for those panels. Of course, even just decent condition boats in this size class run 1/2 mil and up [sailboatlistings.com].

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:33PM (1 child)

      by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:33PM (#737237)

      Anyone rich enough to get close enough to "kick the tires" on this thing is going to have the disposable income to consider the virtue worth it.

      That's quite probably true, but it has the basic design flaw of "accomodation for 10 passengers and 1 crew".

      Anyone rich enough to actually buy this will require far more servants that that.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 20 2018, @03:53PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 20 2018, @03:53PM (#737552)

        I know plenty people who could afford this, and none of the have "servants". Well, at least no more than my friend who has someone to come to her house once a week to clean.

  • (Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:29PM (4 children)

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:29PM (#737201)

    an impressive maximum speed of 22 knots, if you're running all the regular systems solely on solar, you will be able to cruise indefinitely, but only at a slow 5 knots

    Landlubbers are probably like "WTF" so to give it some perspective, you could "cross the ocean" to Bimini in a bit over two hours, but on a long cruise you'd get blown out of the water (bad pun) by a 30 or so foot cruiser sailboat. Hull speed is not that much faster for a sailboat, but its fuel source runs 24x7, so you'd be lucky to pull 40 miles per day with the solar boat (unless the panels tilt... maybe they do) whereas 100 miles/day is "realistic" and "unambitious" for a cruiser sailboat.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:46PM (3 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:46PM (#737213)

      The diesel backup is for when you're in a hurry. All in all, this is an early tech demonstration, established methods (probably including coal burning steam power) can do it better by all kinds of metrics including speed and cost, but this is at the point where you could actually use it on solar power, even if you can only motor a couple of hours a day - if I had the money to commission such a thing to be built, I'd also like to think I'd have the free time to enjoy it.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:02AM (2 children)

        by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:02AM (#737337) Journal

        The solar cells are there for backup. I never realized the amount of energy it takes to run a boat until I started looking at buying one and it really hit home when I started using it a lot -- I have a power boat for fishing -- nothing fancy or even that big (it's only 26') but when I do the math comparing fuel used to distance traveled, I get 1.75 MPG. The decimal is in the correct position. The most inefficient gas guzzling car gets something like 10x the distance on a gallon of gas as I do in my boat.

        I have an older Leaf and I love it, but I think it will be a long time before battery the energy density required for boats is available for even full displacement hulls like sailboats (why not just use the sails??) or trawlers, and way off beyond my death for planing hulls.

        Secondly, being able to apply power only a few hours per day is fine if you either assume perfect conditions or barely ever leave the dock. For example, if you can go 4 knots, three hours of juice will take you 12 nautical miles. If you cruise out 6 NM and then the weather changes so you are fighting a headwind that saps 1 knot of speed, you are going to find your batteries dry at 4.5 NM, or 1.5 NM from your dock or anchorage. That's a problem in a boat.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by suburbanitemediocrity on Thursday September 20 2018, @09:35AM

          by suburbanitemediocrity (6844) on Thursday September 20 2018, @09:35AM (#737425)

          A small 15m yacht with dual 455HP engines to push you to 30kts cruising speed is 670kw!

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday September 21 2018, @02:21AM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday September 21 2018, @02:21AM (#737939)

          It's definitely not super-practical. These "efficient" cruising speeds can barely make headway in the local tidal river against the current (current runs around 3.5knots normally...)

          The "convert your boat to electric" electric motor sellers make claims like 20kW electric motor equivalent to 40hp diesel, and in some ways it is, but not in the "there's a storm coming and I need to get back to the dock NOW" way. Just like in cars, batteries weigh more than fuel tanks and IC engines put together, and while electric motors with sufficient power are available, they're not cheap, so lots of electric solutions end up underpowered due to cost considerations, and seriously under-ranged for the same.

          I just recently ran a scenario past an electric conversion company: occasional 30 mile cruise in the inland waterway, their suggestion: add a (fuel burning) generator to the system to extend range, and cruise at 1/2 hull speed (aka 3.5 knots) to conserve energy.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:36PM

    by MostCynical (2589) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:36PM (#737206) Journal

    please note, this boat does not exist. The pictures are all renderings.

    They may as well have said "our boat could stop climate change" or "our boat could cure cancer"

    --
    "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
  • (Score: 4, Funny) by Thexalon on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:40PM (9 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:40PM (#737208)

    Thar a slow prize be moving at only 5 knots, easy pickings for my crew of scalawags! Hoist the topsail and the colors, load the stern-chasers! I have the weather gage, and yer "motor" can't keep up with me ship even with just the mizzen. Heave-to and prepare to be boarded!

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 5, Funny) by VLM on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:45PM (5 children)

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:45PM (#737212)

      easy pickings for my crew of scalawags!

      Of course with many kilowatts of power laying around, look out for the electromagnetic railgun. Not to mention the squadron of sharks with laser beams on their heads in escort.

      Its strange to think of in a military sense, imagine something like a futuristic tank that moves extremely slowly but has rather impressive laser cutting and long distance plasma welding capability...

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:51PM (3 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @08:51PM (#737219)

        Actually, with the spare income, look for the team of lawyers, lobbyists, and backup of the U.S. military when needed.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
        • (Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:39PM (1 child)

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:39PM (#737244)

          lawyers, lobbyists, and backup of the U.S. military

          The old saying of when you need a cop within seconds, they're only minutes away.

          Actually if you just want to keep the Somalis off your yacht, and you have kilowatts laying around, simple electric fence technology is all that's really required. Although a "Death Star" laser beam would be unimaginably cool.

          • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:48PM

            by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:48PM (#737250)

            If you commissioned such a thing to be built, I believe you'd be keeping in touch with the anti-pirate forces long before venturing anywhere near pirate infested waters.

            I'm not sure where the limit is, the article said this design is inches short of requiring full time crew in many jurisdictions - there's also a size around there somewhere that you are required to continuously report your vessel position to a satellite network, the treasure hunters were really pissed about that law. So, if there be solar cell pirates anywhere, they can track you continuously and plan their heist accordingly...

            --
            🌻🌻 [google.com]
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:44PM

          by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:44PM (#737249)

          Thar be lawyers and lobbyists on board? Aim for the hull, we have to sink her!

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:40PM

        by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:40PM (#737246)

        Of course with many kilowatts of power laying around, look out for the electromagnetic railgun. Not to mention the squadron of sharks with laser beams on their heads in escort.

        Me ship is equipped with mirrors, ye landlubber! Plus me crew kens how to put out ship fires.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:43AM (2 children)

      by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday September 20 2018, @02:43AM (#737356) Journal

      Arrr! This be the why my submission on International Talk Like a Pirate Day be hove to and wallowing in the brig?

  • (Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:10PM (1 child)

    by gawdonblue (412) on Wednesday September 19 2018, @09:10PM (#737228)

    Where's the sail?

    Put one of those new-fangled retractable rotating things onboard and this thing could even sail straight to windward.

    Yar!

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 20 2018, @06:49AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 20 2018, @06:49AM (#737401)

    Never had a cloudy day.

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