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posted by martyb on Tuesday October 02 2018, @10:29PM   Printer-friendly
from the Plan[et]-9-from-outer-space dept.

The search for Planet X gets a boost with the discovery of a super distant object

A new discovery is strengthening the idea that a large, mysterious planet — known as Planet 9 or Planet X — may be lurking unseen at the Solar System's edge. Astronomers say they have found a tiny object orbiting far out from the Sun that fits with the Planet X theory. In fact, the object may have even been pushed onto the path it takes now by this hidden planet's gravity.

The tiny rock — eloquently named TG387 and nicknamed "The Goblin" — was spotted by astronomers at the Carnegie Institution of Science using a giant Japanese observatory in Hawaii called Subaru. The Carnegie team first spotted the object in 2015 and then followed it on its journey around the Sun for the last four years. Those observations revealed an incredibly distant target. TG387 takes a whopping 40,000 years to complete just one orbit around the Sun. And it's on a very elliptical path far from the inner Solar System; the closest it ever gets to the Sun is 65 Astronomical Units (AU), or 65 times the distance between the Sun and the Earth. For reference, Pluto only gets as far as 49 AUs from the Sun.

This orbit is particularly enticing since it puts TG387 in a select group of distant Solar System objects that all point to the possible existence of Planet X. Right now, there are 14 far-out space rocks that all share similar orbit patterns, suggesting that this planet is out there. Their paths are all super elongated, and they all cluster together in the same area when they approach the Sun. Plus, their orbits are all tilted alike, and they point in the same general direction, as if something big has pushed them into similar places. These objects are the strongest lines of evidence astronomers have for Planet X, and finding a new one that matches this pattern reinforces that idea that this planet is more than just a theory.

Planet Nine and 2015 TG387.

Also at ScienceAlert, The Atlantic, USA Today, and NPR.

A New High Perihelion Inner Oort Cloud Object

Previously: Another Trans-Neptunian Object With a High Orbital Inclination Points to Planet Nine
CU Boulder Researchers Say Collective Gravity, Not Planet Nine, Explains Orbits of Detached Objects
Planet Nine Search Turns Up 10 More Moons of Jupiter


Original Submission

Related Stories

Another Trans-Neptunian Object With a High Orbital Inclination Points to Planet Nine 27 comments

2015 BP519, nicknamed "Caju", is another extreme trans-Neptunian object that points to the existence of Planet Nine. Discovered with data from the Dark Energy Survey, Caju has a relatively large diameter, estimated at around 400-700 km, meaning the object could be a gravitationally rounded dwarf planet. It also has a highly inclined orbit of 54°, which a team of scientists says can be explained by the presence of the hypothetical Planet Nine:

After discovering it, the team tried to investigate 2015 BP519's origins using computer simulations of the Solar System. However, these tests were not able to adequately explain how the object had ended with such an orbit.

But when the team added a ninth planet with properties exactly matching those predicted by the Caltech scientists in 2016, the orbit of 2015 BP519 suddenly made sense. "The second you put Planet Nine in the simulations, not only can you form objects like this object, but you absolutely do," Juliette Becker, a Michigan graduate student and lead author of the study told Quanta.

Some researchers, however, caution that Planet Nine may not be the only explanation for 2015 BP519's strange orbit. Michele Bannister, a planetary astronomer from Queen's University Belfast, in Ireland, who was not involved in the study, told Newsweek that while the latest findings were "a great discovery," other scenarios could account for its tilt. "This object is unusual because it's on a high inclination," she said. "This can be used to maybe tell us some things about its formation process. There are a number of models that suggest you can probably put objects like this into the shape of orbit and the tilt of orbit that we see today."

Also at Quanta Magazine.

Discovery and Dynamical Analysis of an Extreme Trans-Neptunian Object with a High Orbital Inclination (arXiv:1805.05355)

Related: Medieval Records Could Point the Way to Planet Nine


Original Submission

CU Boulder Researchers Say Collective Gravity, Not Planet Nine, Explains Orbits of Detached Objects 16 comments

Collective gravity, not Planet Nine, may explain the orbits of 'detached objects'

Bumper car-like interactions at the edges of our solar system—and not a mysterious ninth planet—may explain the the dynamics of strange bodies called "detached objects," according to a new study. CU Boulder Assistant Professor Ann-Marie Madigan and a team of researchers have offered up a new theory for the existence of planetary oddities like Sedna—an icy minor planet that circles the sun at a distance of nearly 8 billion miles. Scientists have struggled to explain why Sedna and a handful of other bodies at that distance look separated from the rest of the solar system. [...] The researchers presented their findings today at a press briefing at the 232nd meeting of the American Astronomical Society, which runs from June 3-7 in Denver, Colorado.

[...] [Jacob] Fleisig had calculated that the orbits of icy objects beyond Neptune circle the sun like the hands of a clock. Some of those orbits, such as those belonging to asteroids, move like the minute hand, or relatively fast and in tandem. Others, the orbits of bigger objects like Sedna, move more slowly. They're the hour hand. Eventually, those hands meet. "You see a pileup of the orbits of smaller objects to one side of the sun," said Fleisig, who is the lead author of the new research. "These orbits crash into the bigger body, and what happens is those interactions will change its orbit from an oval shape to a more circular shape." In other words, Sedna's orbit goes from normal to detached, entirely because of those small-scale interactions.

Also at Popular Mechanics, where Planet Nine proposer Konstantin Batygin disputes the findings:

Batygin, of Caltech, tells Popular Mechanics that any sufficiently strong gravitational encounter could detach an object from Neptune's embrace, but for the distant small bodies of the Kuiper belt to have done so through "self-gravity"—as the CU model proposes—there would need to be about five to ten times the mass of Earth in the outer parts of the Kuiper belt. There isn't.

"Unfortunately, the self-gravity story suffers from the following complications," Batygin says. "Both observational and theoretical estimates place the total mass of the Kuiper belt at a value significantly smaller than that of the Earth [only 1 to 10 percent Earth's mass]. As a consequence, Kuiper belt objects generally behave like test-particles enslaved by Neptune's gravitational pull, rather than a self-interacting group of planetoids."

Planet Nine.

Related: Planet Nine's Existence Disfavoured by New Data
Medieval Records Could Point the Way to Planet Nine
Another Trans-Neptunian Object With a High Orbital Inclination Points to Planet Nine
Outer Solar System Origins Survey Discovers Over 800 Trans-Neptunian Objects
LSST Could be the Key to Finding New Planets in Our Solar System


Original Submission

Planet Nine Search Turns Up 10 More Moons of Jupiter 3 comments

Astronomers have found a new crop of moons around Jupiter, and one of them is a weirdo

Ten more moons have been confirmed to orbit around Jupiter, bringing the planet's total known satellite count to 79. That's the highest number of moons of any planet in the Solar System. And these newly discovered space rocks are giving astronomers insight as to why the Jupiter system looks like it does today.

Astronomers at Carnegie Institution for Science first found these moons in March 2017, along with two others that were already confirmed in June of last year. The team initially found all 12 moons using the Blanco 4-meter telescope in Chile, though finding these objects wasn't their main goal. Instead, they were searching for incredibly distant small objects — or even planets — that might be lurking in our Solar System beyond Pluto. But as they searched for these fringe space rocks, they decided to take a peek at what might be lurking around Jupiter at the same time. Now, the moons they found have been observed multiple times, and their exact orbits have been submitted for approval from the International Astronomical Union, which officially recognizes celestial bodies.

These moons are all pretty tiny, ranging between less than a mile and nearly two miles wide. And they break down into three different types. Two orbit closer to Jupiter, moving in the same direction that the planet spins. Farther out from those, about 15.5 million miles from the planet, there are nine that rotate in the opposite direction, moving against Jupiter's rotation. But in this same distant region, one strange moon that astronomers are calling Valetudo is moving with Jupiter's spin, like the two inner moons.

Moons of Jupiter.

Also at NPR and CNN.

Previously: Two Tiny New Moons Found Around Jupiter

Related: Retrograde Jupiter Co-Orbital Asteroid May Have an Interstellar Origin
Another Trans-Neptunian Object With a High Orbital Inclination Points to Planet Nine
CU Boulder Researchers Say Collective Gravity, Not Planet Nine, Explains Orbits of Detached Objects


Original Submission

"Farout": Most Distant Known Solar System Object Spotted, at 120 AU 17 comments

2018 VG18 is the first solar system object to be spotted at over 100 astronomical units from the Sun. Nicknamed "Farout", the object has a diameter of around 500 km and a pinkish color:

Farout is 120 astronomical units (AU) from the sun — one AU is the distance between Earth and the sun, which is about 93 million miles (150 million kilometers). The object is more than 3.5 times the current distance between Pluto and the sun (34 AU), and it outpaces the previous farthest-known solar system object, the dwarf planet Eris, which is currently about 96 AU from the sun. NASA's Voyager 2 spacecraft recently entered interstellar space at about 120 AU, leaving the sun's "sphere of influence" called the heliopause, where bodies experience the solar wind.

To be clear: The record Farout now holds is for the most-distant solar system body ever observed. That doesn't mean no other objects gets farther away from the sun than 120 AU. In fact, we know some that do. The dwarf planet Sedna gets more than 900 AU away on its highly elliptical orbit, for example, and there are probably trillions of comets in the Oort Cloud, which lies between about 5,000 AU and 100,000 AU from the sun.

Scott S. Sheppard, David Tholen, and Chad Trujillo, the team that discovered "Farout", also announced the discovery of 2015 TG387, "The Goblin", earlier this year. They hope to find more extreme trans-Neptunian objects in order to determine the location or existence of Planet Nine.


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 02 2018, @10:41PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 02 2018, @10:41PM (#743104)

    Plus, their orbits are all tilted alike, and they point in the same general direction, as if something big has pushed them into similar places
    /blockquote

    Are they suggesting Antigravity?

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:23PM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:23PM (#743124) Journal

      Hey! Stop pulling my buttons, will yea?

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      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @03:13AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 04 2018, @03:13AM (#743814)

      "push" gravity [vixra.org]

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Snow on Tuesday October 02 2018, @10:41PM (6 children)

    by Snow (1601) on Tuesday October 02 2018, @10:41PM (#743105) Journal

    We already have a planet nine -- Pluto.

    I don't care what the scientific elite say!

    • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:47PM

      by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:47PM (#743137) Journal

      Plus, if Pluto is planet nine, then planet X becomes planet (Roman numeral) X....more ... um....poetic?

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by bob_super on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:48PM (2 children)

      by bob_super (1357) on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:48PM (#743138)

      Nope.
      If you count Pluto, you have to count Ceres at #5, which makes Pluto at #10, Haumea #11, Makemake #12 and Eris #13...
      ... Unless you also count Orcus at #10, which means Pluto does go to #11.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_planet [wikipedia.org]

      • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Wednesday October 03 2018, @10:40PM (1 child)

        by fyngyrz (6567) on Wednesday October 03 2018, @10:40PM (#743714) Journal

        If you count Pluto, you have to count Ceres at #5

        No, actually you don't. You could count Ceres at #10 or 11, etc. if you want to characterize it as a planet for whatever reason is dear to you.

        The order of the orbit doesn't have to be the number of the planet. In fact, Pluto and Neptune cross orbits from time to time; from 1979 to 1999, Pluto was the eighth planet counting out from the sun. In 1999, it swapped with Neptune to become the ninth planet (again) by orbital order.

        In any case, AFAIC, Pluto's a planet, number 9 or 8 or 22 or whatever. Anyone who says it isn't a planet I find entirely worthy of being ignored on the subject. The whole idea that it's not a planet is downright ridiculous.

        • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday October 03 2018, @11:01PM

          by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday October 03 2018, @11:01PM (#743733)

          Sure, the order is arbitrary. Current distance, average distance, discovery, whatever... The main point being that we're clearly not looking for Planet 9 or 10.

          We have lots of planets. We have 8 Major planets, or 4 Major Rocky/Inner Planets and 4 Gas Giants/Outer Planets, plus a whole lot of smaller Planets (rocky, binary, but not Major).
          We're looking for Major Planet 9, aka Planet 15 or 20, aka Gas Giant 5, unless it turns out to be Major Rocky 5.

          It should be named after some God of confusion and argument.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:49PM

      by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:49PM (#743139) Journal

      I think you meant Eris [wikipedia.org].

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      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @02:43AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @02:43AM (#743213)

      Planet Nein?

  • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday October 02 2018, @10:47PM (5 children)

    by Freeman (732) on Tuesday October 02 2018, @10:47PM (#743107) Journal

    Those observations revealed an incredibly distant target. TG387 takes a whopping 40,000 years to complete just one orbit around the Sun. And it's on a very elliptical path far from the inner Solar System; the closest it ever gets to the Sun is 65 Astronomical Units (AU), or 65 times the distance between the Sun and the Earth. For reference, Pluto only gets as far as 49 AUs from the Sun.

    With something that far away, that takes that much time to orbit the sun, what hope do we have of actually locating the infamous Planet X? Should it be close to those objects? Or could it be anywhere along it's orbital path? At 65AU, that's a whole lot of sky to track.

    --
    Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:10PM (3 children)

      by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:10PM (#743116) Journal

      The Large Synoptic Survey Telescope [wikipedia.org] (LSST) should find a lot of these kinds of objects very soon.

      Both Sheppard and Brown's teams are using the Subaru telescope to search the entire sky for Planet Nine. They aren't close to being done yet, and bad weather has made some nights a wash. It's possible that their "prime search areas" are the wrong search areas, or that Planet Nine is too distant to be picked up by Subaru. Or it could just not exist.

      Also, the proposed orbit for Planet Nine is from 200 AU to 1,200 AU, but the current location could be closer to the latter number. It would be much larger than 300 km in diameter though.

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      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:51PM (2 children)

        by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:51PM (#743140) Journal

        I thought Sheppard was off in Atlantis.

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday October 03 2018, @12:30AM (1 child)

          by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Wednesday October 03 2018, @12:30AM (#743157) Journal

          I thought Atlantis was parked outside San Francisco.

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          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
          • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday October 03 2018, @12:45AM

            by Gaaark (41) on Wednesday October 03 2018, @12:45AM (#743160) Journal

            All we're missing is rule 34!

            --
            --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:17AM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 03 2018, @06:17AM (#743281) Journal

      With something that far away, that takes that much time to orbit the sun, what hope do we have of actually locating the infamous Planet X?

      Depends whether it's out there or not. If it is, we'll find it. If it's not, then alas, there is not much hope.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Thexalon on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:55PM (1 child)

    by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday October 02 2018, @11:55PM (#743143)

    All we need to do is send Duck Dodgers [vimeo.com] and hope he gets there before Marvin the Martian.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @02:47AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2018, @02:47AM (#743218)

      with illudium Q-36.

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