Submitted via IRC for Bytram:
Legend holds that King Arthur's reign was foreseen by an enchanted lady in a lake, who granted him the sword Excalibur. By the same rules, Saga Vanecek, an eight-year-old Swedish girl, is now on a divine path to rule a great kingdom after she discovered a 1,000-year-old sword in a lake.
The sword may be Viking in origin and could date back to Arthurian times, in the 5th or 6th centuries, according to experts at the Jönköpings Läns Museum. That its discoverer is literally named Saga is further proof that this is the stuff of legends.
Vanecek found the rusted weapon over the summer while swimming in Vidöstern Lake in Småland with her family. "I felt something with my hand and thought it was a stick, and then I lifted it up and it had a handle that looked like it was a sword," she recounted in an interview with the Swedish news site Värnamo Nyheter.
"Then I lifted it up and shouted at Dad: 'Daddy I found a sword!'"
Girl pulls ancient sword from lake
An eight-year-old found a pre-Viking-era sword while swimming in a lake in Sweden during the summer.
Saga Vanecek found the relic in the Vidöstern lake while at her family's holiday home in Jönköping County.
The sword was initially reported to be 1,000 years old, but experts at the local museum now believe it may date to around 1,500 years ago.
"It's not every day that you step on a sword in the lake!" Mikael Nordström from the museum said.
The level of the water was extremely low at the time, owing to a drought, which is probably why Saga uncovered the ancient weapon.
Related Stories
The New York Times has written about study results published recently in Nature which show rather precisely when Vikings had been living in what is now Canada, specifically at L’Anse aux Meadows.
But in results published Wednesday in Nature, scientists presented what they think are new answers to this mystery. By analyzing the imprint of a rare solar storm in tree rings from wood found at the Canadian site, scientists have decisively pinned down when Norse explorers were in Newfoundland: the year A.D. 1021, or exactly 1,000 years ago.
The date was calculated from a combination of dendrochronology and astrophysics.
Journal Reference:
Margot Kuitems, Birgitta L. Wallace, Charles Lindsay, et al. Evidence for European presence in the Americas in ad 1021 [open], Nature (DOI: 10.1038/s41586-021-03972-8)
Previously:
(2020) Archaeologists in Norway Find Rare Viking Ship Burial Using Only Radar
(2020) Melting Ice Reveals an Ancient, Once-Thriving Trade Route
(2018) 8-Year-Old Girl Pulls Ancient Sword From Lake, is Our Ruler Now
(2016) Vikings, Crystal 'Sunstones,' and the Discovery of America
(2015) 1,200-year-old Viking Sword Discovered by Hiker
(2014) The Vikings' Navigational Mystery: Calcite
(Score: 2) by Snow on Friday October 05 2018, @08:24PM (1 child)
When I feel something underwater I get all squeamish and run away.
(Score: 3, Funny) by krishnoid on Friday October 05 2018, @09:53PM
That's my same reaction when I think of our current ruler. All hail Queen Vanecek!
(Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @08:25PM (25 children)
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you! I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
(Score: 4, Funny) by nitehawk214 on Friday October 05 2018, @08:38PM (18 children)
Well, I didn't vote for her.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @09:06PM (3 children)
Still comforting to know there's a future for her to rule over.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Snow on Friday October 05 2018, @09:21PM (1 child)
It is darkest before dawn. --Thomas Fuller
(Score: 4, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Saturday October 06 2018, @01:39AM
It is always darkest just before it goes completely black. -- despair.com
(Score: 4, Funny) by bob_super on Friday October 05 2018, @09:50PM
Sweden has a future, just from not being between significant targets and benefiting from global warming.
The smart Muslims fleeing their own war-torn drying hellholes are moving there in droves.
(Score: 2, Troll) by captain normal on Friday October 05 2018, @10:01PM (13 children)
Well in the U.S.A. most of the people didn't vote for Trump. Does that mean we don't have to kowtow to him?
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts"- --Daniel Patrick Moynihan--
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @10:19PM (4 children)
Not sure of your definition of "most", but 46.1% DID vote for Trump, and 48.2% for Clinton. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016 [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @10:57PM (3 children)
Not sure of YOUR definition of "most", but based on your cited numbers, 55.9% of the people didn't vote for Trump. GC's comment rings true for me.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday October 06 2018, @01:41AM
Nobody got a majority -- most people didn't vote for HRC and most people didn't vote for Tump.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Thexalon on Saturday October 06 2018, @06:01PM (1 child)
Trump received 63 million votes, Clinton received 65 million votes. The US population in 2016 was 323 million. Ergo, Trump received the votes of 19.5% of the population, and Clinton received the votes of 20.1% of the population. Which means that not only did neither of them have the support of the majority of Americans, both of them put together didn't have the support of a majority of Americans. Now, you might say "But many of those 323 million aren't registered voters", and you'd be right, but they're still people. Even if you limit your numbers to the 200 million registered voters, that means that "no vote or somebody else" had a plurality of 72 million.
2016 is the very first presidential race in which both major party candidates had a negative net approval rating (i.e. more people hated them than liked them). That's definitely saying something about the state of US politics in general and the two major parties in particular. Contrast that with the 1952 election: The guy who lost had the approval of about 2/3 of Americans, was basically responsible for the existence of the UN, and had a long career of busting up public corruption in Illinois, and would later go on to be the key diplomat in the middle of the Cuban Missile Crisis. The guy who won had the approval of about 4/5 of Americans for being a badass who kicked Nazi butts all over Europe. Just a totally different quality of people.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 07 2018, @06:16PM
I don't have huge insight into the confusing American Democracy, but I'd encourage people to take the primaries seriously so that you don't have a bunch of extremist loonies or pranksters from 4chan and reddit selecting your candidates. I'm lucky I live in a democracy with an abundance of parties to vote for. There are very rarely a government of less than three parties.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @11:58PM (1 child)
Kowtow to the Pres?
If you are a US citizen, you must not have passed middle school civics.
Fuck the Pres with a telephone pole, and any citizen trying to kowtow to him(or her, in the future).
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 06 2018, @01:53AM
You're missing an important part of the above conversation. Those people feel a need to kowtow to someone. Their chosen kow lost the election, so they don't know who to tow to. I suppose that Queen Saga will fill that bill nicely. At least she's a pretty little girl. If we have to tow to a kow, I'd rather the kow be pretty.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @12:05AM (5 children)
In the U.S.A., most of the people didn't vote.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 06 2018, @03:55AM (4 children)
Completely understandable when their choices were between which kind of lube to forego applying for their anal raping.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Saturday October 06 2018, @05:35AM (3 children)
If everyone who didn't vote had voted for a third-party candidate instead, what do you think would have happened?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @11:19AM
Eco-friendly non-lubricant or invisible-fisting?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @01:21PM
Next time an election was held the rules would be strict enough there'd be no third parties able to qualify again, ever.
See the changes made after Perot made his almost-successful run.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 06 2018, @03:22PM
I think any third-party candidate showing more than 30% of the vote in the polls, something along the lines of having their family threatened if they didn't withdraw would have been attempted or they would have been killed outright if that failed.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Funny) by bob_super on Friday October 05 2018, @08:46PM (1 child)
- How do you know she's the queen ?
- She hasn't got shit all over her.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @09:05PM
Give the girl a chance, she's not even entered politics yet!
(Score: 3, Funny) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Friday October 05 2018, @10:55PM (1 child)
Here's what we do. We see if she weighs the same as a duck. That will settle it completely.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @12:38AM
We shall use my larger scales!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @12:47AM
Sounds a hell of a lot better than strange lobbyists distributing campaign contributions.
(Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Saturday October 06 2018, @04:13PM
"I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!"
The source... [python.org]
(Score: 4, Funny) by RamiK on Friday October 05 2018, @09:11PM
https://xkcd.com/1521/ [xkcd.com]
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @11:38PM (10 children)
How was this sword preserved in such a corrosive environment?
(Score: 5, Informative) by Immerman on Saturday October 06 2018, @12:06AM (9 children)
Probably a protective layer of corrosion. Iron corrosion tends to be self-catalyzing, but 1500 years old would put the sword before the iron age, so its probably bronze, and that lovely green bronze patina actually does a halfway decent job of keeping oxygen away from the deeper layers.
It doesn't compare to aluminum, whose tough crystalline oxide layer is impenetrable enough to protect even highly reactive aluminum, which would crumble to dust in minutes if it couldn't form (such as if it's exposed to mercury - which is why mercury isn't allowed on airplanes), but not every metal can have a gemstone for its common oxide.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @12:42AM (8 children)
"but 1500 years old would put the sword before the iron age"
um, the iron age started around 1200 bc. so about 2000 years *before* the sword.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Immerman on Saturday October 06 2018, @01:55AM (6 children)
Wikipedia says 600bc in northern Europe. But regardless, I think I missed the b.c.
If it is iron, than it is impressive that something so thin survived that long submerged
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 06 2018, @01:59AM (5 children)
Water temperature is an important factor in the preservation of shipwrecks and other submerged relics. In warmer waters, stuff rots away relatively quickly. In colder waters, stuff lasts, and lasts, and lasts. And, of course, stuff lasts longer in fresh water, than in salt. During the off seasons, the Energizer Bunny goes back to these freezing lakes.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Saturday October 06 2018, @02:24AM (4 children)
Rot is one thing - most living things do better in warmer temperatures(up to a point). I hadn't heard that it had much effect on the rate of chemical oxidation though, at least not over the narrow temperature range of liquid water.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 06 2018, @02:45AM (1 child)
I'm sure I can find some interesting articles on the subject pretty quickly:
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1996-05-12/features/1996133022_1_lake-superior-great-lakes-lakes-shipping [baltimoresun.com]
https://listverse.com/2013/04/23/10-shipwrecks-frozen-in-time/ [listverse.com]
https://clevelandmagazine.com/in-the-cle/articles/this-shipwreck-may-be-lake-erie's-oldest [clevelandmagazine.com]
Of course, temperature isn't the only factor to be considered. Depth, oxygen content of the water, turbulence, and temperature all work together to decompose or to preserve an artifact.
It may seem less dramatic, but consider your refrigerator. A gallon of milk, left at room temperature, can be expected to be spoiled within a day or two. That same milk, maintained at 32 or 34 degrees F can be expected to last for a couple weeks. Microorganisms continue to do what they do to the milk, but at reduced temeratures, they are much slower.
Reduce the temperature, and at the same time, reduce the oxygen content, and you see a much more dramatic result. The mineral content of the lake may contribute to preservation - I have absolutely no information on the lake in which this sword was found.
Further above, people discussed the preservative effects of surface oxidation. If we knew the mineral content of the lake, we might see how that surface oxidation was enhanced by free floating minerals.
This is a science, in and of itself. Suffice to say that articles like those I've cited exist because shipwrecks can be preserved for amazingly long times, when all the conditions work together.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Saturday October 06 2018, @03:10AM
Again you're referring to microbial life - rot and decay - responding to temperature. No argument here. But also, little to do with chemical rusting.
The chemical content of the water though, certainly. Especially if it contained something that created some sort of "oxide alloy" that slowed further oxygen exposure. I suppose even just very anaerobic conditions would slow oxidation.
Hmm, and now I'm reading that there actually are some bacteria that oxidize iron. Huh. Okay, maybe you're right about that being a potentially major factor
(Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Saturday October 06 2018, @05:46AM (1 child)
From what I remember of my chemistry in school, chemical reactions indeed go slower in cold temperatures; the rule of thumb was that ten degrees Celsius give a factor of two in reaction speed.
However the lake obviously got warm enough for people to go bathing in it, so I doubt that temperature alone can explain preservation during more than a millennium.
However I guess mud forms an extra protective layer.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday October 06 2018, @09:12AM
That's right, the Arrhenius equation [wikipedia.org]
If you go bathing in a Swedish lake, and you don't wait until August when the water has warmed up, you'll still turn light blue from the cold.
We once went swimming, and noticed that all the adults were sun-bathing in chairs next to the lake. They didn't go in, only the kids.
Maybe more of that lake evaporated this year, because of the heat wave? That would explain how she could swim in shallow water,
that would normally be deep enough that the sun doesn't penetrate and it stays cool for centuries. (Just guessing here)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 06 2018, @01:57AM
Yeah, I was wondering if GP was from an alternative dimension or something. The state of the art varied widely throughout the world, but iron was definitely in use. Most really good iron at this point in time was being imported from Asia. Iron workers in northern Europe weren't doing especially well at the time.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jmorris on Saturday October 06 2018, @01:37AM (4 children)
Come on, can't people even read anymore? Girl doesn't become a King. Whoever girl in lake GIVES the sword to becomes a King. And they probably should at least be a Knight.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @03:20AM
Lake gives sword to girl. Prepare for it, jmorris! Women will control your life. The girl didn't give the sword to anyone, except loaning it to museum, because, as Indiana Jones would say, it belongs in a museum! So are you saying the museum should be king? Are you saying Kavanaugh is innocent? Silly jmorris, power is for girls!
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday October 06 2018, @05:48AM
That would then be her father, I guess.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday October 06 2018, @09:17AM (1 child)
Iron & Wine -- Woman King
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Saturday October 06 2018, @04:11PM
She's only 8, so she's got a few years before that.
(Score: 4, Informative) by stretch611 on Saturday October 06 2018, @01:43AM (10 children)
She is originally from Minneapolis [npr.org]. Perhaps she can come home and rule as president here? We can use a decent one...
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 06 2018, @02:03AM (9 children)
She was probably conceived elsewhere. I'm not aware of a lot of good things coming from Minneapolis. I'll bet she's one of those white Latinos, and her parents used her as an anchor baby, on their way to Sweden. Give me some time, and I'll build this up into a remarkable saga!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @03:21AM (4 children)
You're a racist puke, Runaway! Not a Scald at all.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 06 2018, @02:04PM (3 children)
Racist? LMAO - you guys are just too much. Surely you've met at least one genuine racist in your life. Maybe you should read some, to find out how racists really think. Search for the Turner Diary. Hell, I'll just find it myself, and give you the link . . . https://www.docdroid.net/Iv8omhj/turner-diaries-andrew-macdonald.pdf [docdroid.net]
Let me give you a sample:
Seriously, dude, those are the thoughts of real racists. Me? I don't think that way. I don't have a "lot of" black friends, but I have black friends. I don't have a "lot of" Jewish friends, but I do have Jewish friends. Hmmmm - Mexican/Latino? Now that I think of it, I've acquired a fair number of those, over the past fifteen years or so. White racists would never call a black, a Jew, or a Latino a friend. At best, you would get something like, "He's not a bad guy for a nigger/Jew/wetback."
Wake the fuck up, and learn what racism really is. Don't you dare run around using that catchword, "I'm woke!" unless and until you familiarize yourself with genuine racism.
The PDF reminded me of this site: http://solargeneral.org/ [solargeneral.org] http://solargeneral.org/ebooks/ [solargeneral.org]
Just educate yourself, and stop pretending that everyone who disagrees with you on some idiot divisive issue is a racist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 07 2018, @12:37AM
Your friends who aren't white tolerate you. That doesn't make you not a racist. I tolerate my boss, I tolerate all kinds of shit, doesn't turn it to not-shit.
You're Dunning-Krugering on race and not realizing it. No biggie as long as you're not making public policy or getting violent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 07 2018, @12:41AM (1 child)
PS - "I have friends " is a dog whistle for "I'm a self-unaware racist", and "hey I don't use offensive terms like " is how you get big nods from other un-self-aware racists, and incredulous looks from everyone else. You probably haven't noticed those incredulous looks because you're too flushed with getting to say the naughty word out loud.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 07 2018, @03:34AM
Good boy, Fido!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @11:27AM (3 children)
Uhh probably just has Scandinavian roots and fled back to the old country away from Trumpland.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 06 2018, @03:26PM (2 children)
Anyone twisted enough in the head to think Trump has made enough of a difference to warrant fleeing the country, we're better off without. Hysterical fools we have plenty of already.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by stretch611 on Saturday October 06 2018, @07:13PM (1 child)
Except for people that may have morals, values, and a general respect for other humans. All things that Trump has a complete lack thereof.
And I doubt Trump will ever be going to Sweden himself... they are socialists... and its not like he will ever have a reason to visit either... its not like he would ever be win a Nobel Peace Prize. [yahoo.com]
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 06 2018, @08:11PM
And you reckon it's terrifying enough to leave the country rather than wait a few years for him to be out of office? You're very likely one of the hysterical fools then.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @04:41AM (3 children)
Men should marry little girls, they are good.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @06:58AM (1 child)
Try that with a little girl holding a sword.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @07:37AM
Last name of soylent gadfly of old, insisting on very bad video games and biblical justifications of pedophilia: Bobbit, John (son-less) Bobbit. Dude has issues.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 06 2018, @05:18PM
Like Muhammed did?