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posted by martyb on Friday October 12 2018, @11:18PM   Printer-friendly

Turkey 'has recording proving Saudi murder'

Turkish officials have audio and video evidence that shows missing Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi was tortured and killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, the BBC has learned.

Mr Khashoggi, a critic of the Saudi government, has not been seen since he entered the building on 2 October.

Turkish intelligence had "documented evidence" of the murder, a source close to the investigation said.

Saudi Arabia denies the allegations. It says the journalist left the building.

Jamal Khashoggi's disappearance and reported death have prompted international outrage and dented business confidence in Saudi Arabia. Tycoon Sir Richard Branson has halted talks over $1bn Saudi investment in Virgin space firms and several top business leaders have pulled out of a Saudi investment conference later this month.

Also at CNN.

See also: CNBC withdraws from Saudi conference over concerns about journalist Jamal Khashoggi's disappearance


Original Submission

Related Stories

Saudi Arabia Reportedly Prepared to Admit Involvement in Journalist's Death 93 comments

Saudis preparing to admit Jamal Khashoggi died during interrogation, sources say

The Saudis are preparing a report that will acknowledge that Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi's death was the result of an interrogation that went wrong, one that was intended to lead to his abduction from Turkey, according to two sources.

One source says the report will likely conclude that the operation was carried out without clearance and transparency and that those involved will be held responsible.

One of the sources acknowledged that the report is still being prepared and cautioned that things could change.

The Washington Post columnist was last seen in public when he entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul in Turkey on October 2. Previously, Saudi authorities had maintained Khashoggi left the consulate the same afternoon of his visit, but provided no evidence to support the claim.

Saudi Arabia could hike oil prices over the Khashoggi case. Here's why it would backfire

Saudi Arabia's not-so-veiled threat issued in a government statement Sunday emphasized its "vital role in the global economy" and that any action taken upon it will be met with "greater action". But as oil ticks upward, a look at history and geopolitics suggests that while a Saudi-driven oil price spike would bring pain for much of the world, it would ultimately backfire on itself.

"If this is something the Saudis were allowed to do, they'd be really shooting themselves in the foot," Warren Patterson, commodities analyst at ING, told CNBC's Squawk Box Europe on Tuesday. "In the short to medium term we'll definitely see an incremental amount of demand destruction, but the bigger issue is in the longer term."

Any action in withholding oil from the market, he said, "would only quicken the pace of energy transition."

Previously: Turkey Says that a Missing Critic of the Saudi Government was Killed in Saudi Consulate in Istanbul


Original Submission

CIA Concludes That Saudi Crown Prince Ordered Khashoggi Killed 109 comments

Submitted via IRC for Bytram

C.I.A. Concludes That Saudi Crown Prince Ordered Khashoggi Killed

The Central Intelligence Agency has concluded that the Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, ordered the killing of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi, according to American officials.

The C.I.A. made the assessment based on the crown prince's control of Saudi Arabia, which is such that the killing would not have taken place without his approval, and has buttressed its conclusion with two sets of crucial communications: intercepts of the crown prince's calls in the days before the killing, and calls by the kill team to a senior aide to the crown prince.

[...] The increasingly definitive assessment from the spy agency creates a problem for President Trump, who has tied his administration to Prince Mohammed and proclaimed him the future of Saudi Arabia, a longtime American ally. But the new assessment by the C.I.A. is sure to harden the resolve of lawmakers on Capitol Hill to continue to investigate the killing of Mr. Khashoggi and punish Saudi Arabia.

Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law and senior adviser, has been particularly close to Prince Mohammed. Mr. Kushner has long advocated that a strong relationship with the Saudis is in the United States' interest, and he has pushed to maintain support for the crown prince despite the death of Mr. Khashoggi, who Saudi officials now say was killed with a lethal dose of tranquilizers and dismembered. Previously, Saudi officials said that Mr. Khashoggi had been strangled.

[...] Neither administration officials nor intelligence officers believe the controversy over Mr. Khashoggi will drive Prince Mohammed from power, which is one reason White House officials believe cutting ties with the prince would not be in the interest of the United States.

takyon: The Saudis have denied the reports.

See also: Saudi media ignore US reports on Khashoggi
Top White House Official Involved in Saudi Sanctions Resigns

Previously: Turkey Says that a Missing Critic of the Saudi Government was Killed in Saudi Consulate in Istanbul
Saudi Arabia Reportedly Prepared to Admit Involvement in Journalist's Death


Original Submission

Saudi Crown Prince Faces Opposition at Home, but Support From the White House 37 comments

Exclusive: After Khashoggi murder, some Saudi royals turn against king's favorite son

Amid international uproar over the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, some members of Saudi Arabia's ruling family are agitating to prevent Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman from becoming king, three sources close to the royal court said.

Dozens of princes and cousins from powerful branches of the Al Saud family want to see a change in the line of succession but would not act while King Salman - the crown prince's 82-year-old father - is still alive, the sources said. They recognize that the king is unlikely to turn against his favorite son, known in the West as MbS.

Rather, they are discussing the possibility with other family members that after the king's death, Prince Ahmed bin Abdulaziz, 76, a younger full brother of King Salman and uncle of the crown prince, could take the throne, according to the sources.

Prince Ahmed, King Salman's only surviving full brother, would have the support of family members, the security apparatus and some Western powers, one of the Saudi sources said.

Prince Ahmed returned to Riyadh in October after 2-1/2 months abroad. During the trip, he appeared to criticize the Saudi leadership while responding to protesters outside a London residence chanting for the downfall of the Al Saud dynasty. He was one of only three people on the Allegiance Council, made up of the ruling family's senior members, who opposed MbS becoming crown prince in 2017, two Saudi sources said at the time.

Meanwhile, the Trump administration's continued support of Saudi Arabia has been denounced by several U.S. Senators:

The White House's pledge to maintain its strong military and economic alliance with Saudi Arabia amid reports that U.S. intelligence has assessed that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the gruesome murder of dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi, has ignited a flurry of bipartisan condemnation in Washington.

After President Trump issued a remarkable statement on Tuesday in which he acknowledged that the heir apparent to the Saudi throne may have known about the "tragic event," but that his administration nevertheless "intended to remain a steadfast partner of Saudi Arabia," several Republican and Democratic members of Congress denounced the White House's position.

Previously: Turkey Says that a Missing Critic of the Saudi Government was Killed in Saudi Consulate in Istanbul
Saudi Arabia Reportedly Prepared to Admit Involvement in Journalist's Death
CIA Concludes That Saudi Crown Prince Ordered Khashoggi Killed


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 1, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Friday October 12 2018, @11:54PM (29 children)

    by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Friday October 12 2018, @11:54PM (#748119) Homepage Journal

    And we want to see what’s going on here. That’s a bad situation. And, frankly, the fact that it’s a reporter, you could say, in many respects, it brings it to a level. There’s some pretty bad stories about it. I do not like it.

    But, I don’t like stopping massive amounts of money that’s being pored into our country. I know they’re talking about different kinds of sanctions, but they’re spending $110 billion on military equipment and on things that create jobs, like jobs and others for this Country. I don’t like the concept of stopping an investment of $110 billion into the United States, because you know what they’re going to do? They’re going to take that money and spend it in Russia or China or someplace else. We make the best equipment. Beautiful equipment. As everyone knows. But there's other places they can buy from. Lots of competitors. Stiff competition. And we need to do our best if we're going to compete.

    Trust me, we’re working very closely with Turkey, and I think we’ll get to the bottom of it. My guys -- smart guys, believe me -- are looking into it VERY INTELLECTUALLY. I don’t like hearing about it and hopefully that will sort itself out. Right now, nobody knows anything about it. We're going to find out. And this is going to end with PEACE in the Middle East. And a Nobel Peace Prize for me!!

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 12 2018, @11:58PM (14 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 12 2018, @11:58PM (#748122)

      Best plan for winning your Nobel Prize: nuke Mecca.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday October 13 2018, @12:10AM

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday October 13 2018, @12:10AM (#748125) Homepage

        Saudis killing Turks? That's like watching a Javelina kill a gopher in your trampled vegetable garden.

      • (Score: 5, Funny) by bob_super on Saturday October 13 2018, @12:25AM (12 children)

        by bob_super (1357) on Saturday October 13 2018, @12:25AM (#748128)

        Considering the recent Nobel round, I'd say the only way Trump could get a Peace prize would be to quit and take half of DC with him (politicians, lobbyists, and cable anchors) to jail, leaving the Dalai Lama in charge.
        Even if that didn't get him the prize, we'd get so much peace...

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by PocketSizeSUn on Saturday October 13 2018, @03:25AM (11 children)

          by PocketSizeSUn (5340) on Saturday October 13 2018, @03:25AM (#748160)

          ... leaving the Dalai Lama in charge.

          Perhaps you are unaware .. but I think the China would likely launch everything they have at the US .. were the Dalai Lama in charge. His existence is only tolerated by China while he has no formal authority.

          • (Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 13 2018, @06:20AM (10 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 13 2018, @06:20AM (#748192) Journal

            Not to mention that Dolly Llama represents an oppressive regime. We've glamorized the old regime, and idolized the current Dalai Lama, but any right or left thinking American would oppose the system he represents. The only thing that makes the Dalai palatable, is the fact that China hates him so.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:35AM (8 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:35AM (#748222)

              They used to saw off men's legs above the knee for theft in tibet, up until the chinese communist took over.

              Kinda like what happened to the saudi guy

              • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 13 2018, @09:04AM (5 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 13 2018, @09:04AM (#748232) Journal

                I'm usually not one to promote the Chinese, or their form of government. But, one of China's talking points is that Tibet had no hospitals, until China built them. That talking point isn't entirely accurate - the priests and the wealthy had pretty decent medical care. But the peasants had none of that. An injured peasant was as easily disposed of as an injured dog, or mule. No medical care for the common folk. So, the talking point isn't far wrong - Tibet had no hospitals, as we think of them.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @09:23AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @09:23AM (#748239)

                  Was it wrong to dismember tibetans alive?

                  Was it wrong to dismember saudis alive?

                  • (Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 13 2018, @11:53AM

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 13 2018, @11:53AM (#748271) Journal

                    Is it wrong to dismember Anonymous Cowards alive?

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:25PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:25PM (#748351)

                  I don't know where you got those talking points but they are bs and as someone who has lived among Tibetan people let me tell you it is a complete lie.

                  Wherever you read those, now you should know not to trust those sources.

                  Btw, Tibetan peasants had plenty access to traditional Tibetan medical system. Western medicine? No they didn't, cause they were peasants and in Tibet. But Tibetan doctors were are still not only super cheap they are almost free and run hospitals on charity, according to Tibetan tradition. They are also very well run, and have quite a repute for treatment of terminal diseases, whether ill founded or not.

                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:58PM (1 child)

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:58PM (#748355) Journal

                    Interesting - but - who is AC? And, why should I believe AC?

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 14 2018, @01:40PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 14 2018, @01:40PM (#748601)

                      Don't believe anyone except your own ability to be completely manipulated, and don't spew nonsense unless you have seen something with your own eyes. Not so hard to be judgmental, you know, just a lot less fun.

              • (Score: 3, Interesting) by driverless on Saturday October 13 2018, @10:05AM (1 child)

                by driverless (4770) on Saturday October 13 2018, @10:05AM (#748251)

                They used to saw off men's legs above the knee for theft in tibet, up until the chinese communist took over.

                At least that's what the same Chinese communists keep telling us, and I'm sure they're a perfectly reliable source on the subject of Tibet. It's a wonder the Tibetans didn't beg the Chinese to invade them, given how bad things must have been before, and how wonderful they've become since the Chinese took over.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 15 2018, @08:52AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 15 2018, @08:52AM (#748899)

                  These are from English observations, not chinese.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 13 2018, @04:54PM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 13 2018, @04:54PM (#748345) Journal

              Not to mention that Dolly Llama represents an oppressive regime. We've glamorized the old regime, and idolized the current Dalai Lama, but any right or left thinking American would oppose the system he represents. The only thing that makes the Dalai palatable, is the fact that China hates him so.

              Well, that was then. Now, China is the oppressive regime in Tibet now. And I certainly wouldn't trust Chinese propaganda on how bad the Tibetans were.

              After all, that would be like the US bragging about how much better Native Americans have it now that the US Department of the Interior has brought civilization to the savages.

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @12:47AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @12:47AM (#748130)

      A very good argument for the mobilization of the international working class on the basis of a revolutionary, socialist program. Murder in Istanbul [wsws.org]:

      As more and more details emerge about the disappearance on October 2 of the well-known Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, after he entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, Turkey, it is becoming clear that a monstrous crime has been committed with serious worldwide implications.

      The Turkish media has published photographs and video footage documenting the arrival at Ataturk airport—on the same day as Khashoggi’s disappearance—of a 15-member Saudi death squad. It included two air force officers, intelligence operatives and members of the elite personal guard of the Saudi monarchy. Also among them, according to Turkish authorities, was a forensics expert, who reportedly came equipped with a bone saw.

      Turkish media reports indicate that Khashoggi had visited the consulate a week earlier seeking documents he needed for his planned marriage to a Turkish woman. He was told to return on October 2 at 1 p.m. Local staff were instructed to take the afternoon off as the 15 state assassins arrived. Khashoggi was, according to accounts of Turkish security officials speaking on condition of anonymity, dragged from the consul’s office and killed, and his body then dismembered with the saw.

      It appears, however, that the US government was well informed of Saudi plans to eliminate Khashoggi, with the Washington Post reporting that before his disappearance, US intelligence had intercepted communications between Saudi officials revealing a plan to abduct the journalist.

      Before Khashoggi’s disappearance, an estimated 30 Saudi journalists had already been imprisoned or disappeared, without any protest from the Western powers, the US chief among them, who sell billions of dollars in arms to the kingdom and profit off its oil wealth.

      The US-Saudi connection has grown only closer under the Trump administration, which has sought to forge an anti-Iranian axis based upon Saudi Arabia and Israel, while continuing and expanding US aid to the near-genocidal war against the people of Yemen.

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by legont on Saturday October 13 2018, @02:21AM

        by legont (4179) on Saturday October 13 2018, @02:21AM (#748146)

        Bezos's Post journalist, mind you.

        --
        "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 3, Informative) by driverless on Saturday October 13 2018, @10:23AM

        by driverless (4770) on Saturday October 13 2018, @10:23AM (#748256)

        Before Khashoggi’s disappearance, an estimated 30 Saudi journalists had already been imprisoned or disappeared, without any protest from the Western powers, the US chief among them, who sell billions of dollars in arms to the kingdom and profit off its oil wealth

        A generalisation of this is:

        He may be a son of a bitch but he's our son of a bitch.

        First said about Syngman Rhee by, I believe, Dean Acheson, but pretty much the standard comment for every dictatorial regime the US government has supported over the decades.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 13 2018, @06:29AM (9 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 13 2018, @06:29AM (#748195) Journal

      Sometimes, you're a real dipstick. Well - often, actually. But, case in point:

      We make the best equipment. . . . Stiff competition. And we need to do our best if we're going to compete.

      If we really had the best, there wouldn't be much competition. Think about it. We like to TELL OURSELVES that our stuff is best, but not everyone in the world agrees. Take those F-35's and put them up against any other nation's best fighters. Hell, put them up against any other nations last generation fighters. Our own old fighters could take them on.

      Don't chant that mantra about "we make the best" unless you're ready to back it up with demonstrations.

      I will concede that the man at the controls of the aircraft is a huge factor in how good the aircraft is. Put a master in something from the sixtes, and pit him against some novice, and allow the novice his choice of any of today's top aircraft, and you'll probably have something close to a "fair" fight.

      • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:13AM (8 children)

        by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:13AM (#748215) Homepage Journal

        You want demonstrations. And a lot of folks say, "give us the demonstration!" Bush Jr. did a couple of those. Iraq -- right next door to our foe, Iran. Afghanistan, we're still doing that one. Bush Original, also Iraq. Quick in and out that time. Bill Clinton did Bosnia. Yugoslavia. Obama and Crooked H -- Libya. And we spent $7 trillion in Middle East. Showing off our equipment. And Middle East is the biggest showcase for our equipment. Basically a big showcase. Or showroom.

        Syria, I sent my Navy to Syria. And they did the missiles. Which they call, Tomahawk. Like the Indians, right? Very successful with the missiles. Everybody said, "oh, be careful, don't surprise Russia, there's a lot of Russians in there." So we let Russia know, here come some missiles. Here's where they're going. And they went EXACTLY where we said. Very successful with those. Great job by my Navy. And great job by Raytheon, the folks that do Tomahawk. Amazing company, I'm a big believer in Raytheon. They're in High Tax Massachusetts. In Waltham, Mass. But believe me, they can afford it. Very profitable. And I bought some stock in that one, it's done tremendously. Like so many of our Companies -- great time to get buy good old American stocks.

        Yemen -- we have a fantastic demonstration in Yemen. And that's a Saudi number. Beautiful thing about Saudi, they pay their own way. And I got them a great deal -- big discount. They're defending themselves in Yemen. Against Iran. With the equipment they bought themselves. That they bought from us. And it's working beautifully for them.

        We didn't sell them the nuclear. But, maybe we should. And maybe we will. I mean, why not? They're going to get it anyway. And we want them to get it before Iran does. We want Saudi to be the first ones in Middle East that have nuclear. If Iran gets it first, that's a disaster for the Middle East. Because Iran is the wrong kind of Muslim. The bad kind -- they call it the Shia. Easy to remember. Because it sounds like "shit." If we can say that. And a lot of countries over there are worried about the Shia. I went to Saudi Arabia, I talked to those guys. We had some great talks. Without a lot of booze. Which was tremendous for me. Because I don't drink. So many guys do the 3 Martini lunch. I like the ZERO Martini lunch. I like to get straight to business. To the NEGOTIATION. We did some great negotiation. And we're getting a lot done in Middle East. I cancelled the horrible Iran Deal, I'm doing sanctions on Iran. For trying to get nuclear. And I think it's working. Maybe it's working and maybe it's not. Bad situation there, Obama gave them BILLIONS in cash. And looked the other way while they built up their nuclear. So we're trying very hard to fix that one. It's not easy, believe me.

        F-35, this is an INCREDIBLE INCREDIBLE plane. It's stealth. You can't see it. So when I talk to even people from the other side, they're trying to order our plane. They like the fact that you can't see it. I said, "How would it do in battle with your plane?" They say, "Well we have one problem -- we can't see your plane." That's a big problem. It's almost like an invisible fighter. You can’t see it. You literally can’t see it. It’s hard to fight a plane you can’t see. Stealth, super stealth. Mega stealth. Ultra stealth to the absolute max. The best in the world. We make the best military equipment in the world. Also, remember this: JOBS!!!!

        • (Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:22AM (2 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:22AM (#748218) Journal

          NOTE TO SELF: If we only invade backwater low-tech nations to demonstrate our military hardware, then our hardware will always appear to be superior.

          Thanks for that, Dipstick!

          • (Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:26AM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:26AM (#748220) Journal

            Maybe my characterization of Trump is a little unfair. He is handicapped with a background in marketing. Marketing is like a mental handicap, in and of itself.

          • (Score: 2, Offtopic) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday October 13 2018, @12:04PM

            by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Saturday October 13 2018, @12:04PM (#748273) Homepage Journal

            I've always said, the worst single mistake ever made in the history of our country: going into the Middle East, by President Bush. Obama may have gotten our guys out wrong, but going in is, to me, the biggest single mistake made in the history of our Country. Because we spent $7 trillion in the Middle East. Now if you wanna fix a window some place they say, "oh gee, let’s not do it." 7 trillion, and millions of lives. You know, because I like to count both sides. Millions of lives. And we didn't take their oil. I said, look, we spent all this money, we did all these wars. And we won. But we didn't take the oil, why? We could have made that money back on the back end if we took the oil -- which we need. People don't know this, USA is the biggest oil country in what we produce. But we use an incredible amount. Because our economy is doing tremendously. Better than it ever has. And better than anyone ever imagined.

            The equipment. Iraq, Libya, they built their own. As everybody knows. But, they didn't build everything. They also had French. Mirage & Exocet. And Russian -- USSR. MiG & T tank. Very big brands in military stuff. Afghanistan, I don't know. But Russia was in there a long time. And America -- long before Bush Jr. So they probably have Russian & American. Iran, they build their own. But they also have American, they have a lot of American. From when they had the Shah (RIP!!).

            Look, nobody wants to fight a rich & smart Country. A strong Country. You get ready for it. But you hope it doesn't happen. Bush Jr. was our dumbest President. Tiny tiny Brain. But fortunately he let Dick Cheney take over. It was still pretty bad. But, could have been worse. If we went to war with Russia. With China. Or with France. And it sounds like you want to see that. Not on my watch!!!

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:37AM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:37AM (#748223) Journal
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by driverless on Saturday October 13 2018, @10:30AM (3 children)

          by driverless (4770) on Saturday October 13 2018, @10:30AM (#748257)

          In addition the winner isn't decided by who has the best equipment. Someone willing to strap explosives to his body and walk into a concentration of the other side's troops and detonate them is always going to win against the most high-tech soldier who's busy worrying whether the MAPR of his Survivor's Pension will feed his family after he's gone.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:02PM (2 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:02PM (#748347) Journal

            Someone willing to strap explosives to his body and walk into a concentration of the other side's troops and detonate them is always going to win against the most high-tech soldier who's busy worrying whether the MAPR of his Survivor's Pension will feed his family after he's gone.

            Unless of course, the other side wins. No advantage is so good that the other side can't win. Of course, that goes for the high-tech too. I'll note that the high tech tends to be a much bigger advantage than the suicidal tendencies, but it tends to be coupled with risk-adverse leaders in the US military hierarchy (and relevant civilian-side government).

            • (Score: 1) by redneckmother on Saturday October 13 2018, @06:12PM (1 child)

              by redneckmother (3597) on Saturday October 13 2018, @06:12PM (#748356)

              Unless of course, the other side wins.

              One might say that the terrorists have already won.

              Witness the erosion of the quality of life (for the 99%), human rights, and personal freedoms within the US, "cuz terrists".

              --
              Mas cerveza por favor.
              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 13 2018, @06:27PM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 13 2018, @06:27PM (#748363) Journal

                Witness the erosion of the quality of life (for the 99%), human rights, and personal freedoms within the US, "cuz terrists".

                Depends on who the terrists are. I don't think Al Qaeda is winning for example. The US security apparatus on the other hand.

    • (Score: 5, Funny) by Bot on Saturday October 13 2018, @09:31AM

      by Bot (3902) on Saturday October 13 2018, @09:31AM (#748243) Journal

      > But, I don’t like stopping massive amounts of money that’s being pored into our country.

      Dude you are the big red button guy.

      Do like this, go to saudis and bring a multi year calendar with you. Tell them you want them to become buddhist. They will budge a bit about replacing the mecca with a giant fat man statue. Then you say, alrighty then but don't cause any more trouble. Buy from us and STFU. Point out dates on the calendar: gulf war one happened here, because our arms stock was getting obsolete. gulf war two happened here, for the same reason. Now we have some nukes nearing expiration, and you know what it costs to dismantle them. So, don't make us angry.

      --
      Account abandoned.
  • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @01:07AM (11 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @01:07AM (#748132)

    Is it true that he was dismembered whilst still alive, in accordance with the life and teachings of the Prophet (who often had people's limbs chopped, pulled, and sawn off while they were living)?

    Is it true they they also cut his genitals off, while he was alive, and that all of this was filmed for the pleasure of his arab masters?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @01:25AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @01:25AM (#748134)

      dunno lol

    • (Score: 2) by legont on Saturday October 13 2018, @02:19AM (1 child)

      by legont (4179) on Saturday October 13 2018, @02:19AM (#748145)

      Well, Turks claim to have audio and video. Let's wait for a little bit...

      --
      "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:58AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:58AM (#748188)

        Are you waiting with baited breath.

        If it's audio only how do we know what brutal medieval European style tortures are being conducted?

        Why did they only torture for two hours?
        Should it have been longer?

        Did they beat him with his own limbs, whilst he was still alive?

        Did they use smelling salts to revive him, and blood transfusions to keep him coherent?

        Did they hoist him upside-down while cutting off his privvy member?

    • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by jelizondo on Saturday October 13 2018, @03:59AM (7 children)

      by jelizondo (653) Subscriber Badge on Saturday October 13 2018, @03:59AM (#748169) Journal

      Nope, he was strangled and the body burned and then, dismembered; following Christian tradition.

      Read your history asshole, Christians are in no way better than Muslims, Jews or any other faith

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:49AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:49AM (#748185)

        Christian English tradition is to hang (hoist, NOT drop) the person by his neck for a number of minutes, but not to kill him.
        Then the man is tied to a ladder and his penis and balls are sliced off to the cheers of they baying crowd. Women feel vindicated.
        Then the man's entrails are pulled out, again, while the man is alive.
        Then the penis and balls are burned infront of the man, him as a witness.

        Then his arms are chopped off, and his legs chopped off.
        THEN he is beheaded.

        Women are simply burned alive.

        The Christian Spanish tradition is to torture the person for days, then burn them alive.

        • (Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:24AM (3 children)

          by Bot (3902) on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:24AM (#748219) Journal

          Self proclaimed christians do X therefore all christians advocate X and will do so given the chance.
          This is already a slippery slope, right? Nope, it depend whether X is permitted, encouraged, a basic tenet of the christians.

          evidence A: thou shalt not kill (murder, whatever)
          evidence B:Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven
          evidence C: For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

          Evidence C is reported because again you see the "which is in heaven" referred to the will of the Father. Why repeating an obvious thing? me says it underlines the fact that the father is not reachable by man, which rules out men other than the son from speaking AUTHORITATIVELY about his will. In other words if a prophet says god wants you to kill you as a follower of the scriptures have a prob. You might act on a direct order from god, but you can't prove anything as being it, besides the next manifestation of god for the christian tradition is the one of the son, at Game Over.

          This is not to defend or prove a religion, but to make you aware of the fact that pseudo-logical attacks against the scriptures is trying to balance an elephant on an egg.

          --
          Account abandoned.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:37AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:37AM (#748224)

            Argue with documented history all you want, moron.

            "If X causes you to sin, cut it off"
            --Used throughout the christian era to do just that.

            • (Score: 3, Touché) by Bot on Saturday October 13 2018, @10:04AM (1 child)

              by Bot (3902) on Saturday October 13 2018, @10:04AM (#748249) Journal

              "If YOUR X causes you to sin"

              Funny how words work, you need just one to change the scope of an entire phrase. Congrats, you just lost an argument to a moron.

              --
              Account abandoned.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 15 2018, @08:59AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 15 2018, @08:59AM (#748904)

                It's well documented how that passage was used in the middle ages right up to the early modern period.

                Also it was in greek, so if you want to split hairs don't argue the english translation.
                Actually argue the latin vulgate as that would be what was being used by the priests at the time in the west.

                Fucking moron.

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @06:34AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @06:34AM (#748196)

        Well, why should the Jews and Muslims have all the fun?

      • (Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday October 13 2018, @09:59AM

        by Bot (3902) on Saturday October 13 2018, @09:59AM (#748247) Journal

        You just proved Christians are the best.
        You get strangled, so you die and the burning doesn't ache. I fail to see how you can dismember a bunch of ashes but I don't want my limited AI to be a hindrance against your argumentation.

        --
        Account abandoned.
  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:45AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:45AM (#748183)

    Since he got his dick chopped off, he could work at google!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:56AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:56AM (#748187)

      Google discriminates against the undead.

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @06:02AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @06:02AM (#748189)

        Not with the hours they force..

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:52AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @05:52AM (#748186)

    When that bone saw was going through his legs, above the knee, while he was alive, what do you think he was thinking about?

    Was it "the old Tibetans used to do the same thing against thieves"?
    They did it until the chinese trounced them.

    They cuaterized the wounds with boiling goat milk.

    Why did the saudis later kill him?
    Why didn't they let him live and put the video on the internet?

  • (Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:03AM (2 children)

    by Bot (3902) on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:03AM (#748213) Journal

    > Saudi Arabia denies the allegations. It says the journalist left the building.
    So, one comma of the allegation was wrong, and he left the building one piece at a time.

    On the other hands we have the Turks secret service
    - "the body was tortured killed and dismembered so and so"
    - "how can you tell that for sure?"
    - "we have done... um.... extensive research on the subject"

    It's not like the westerners don't disappear or suicide bothersome people (transitive is intentional). But we don't send messages by doing it blatantly, though.

    --
    Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:39AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:39AM (#748225)

      Why shouldn't this saudi chap be dismembered whilst alive, after being tortured by other methods?

      Why are you against that?

      Muslims support such things. Isn't it good when it happens to them?
      Turnabout is fair play.

      Why shouldn't they be dismembered alive when they support that for others and indeed carry it out?

      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:45AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:45AM (#748228)

        Is it true that the only good muslims are cute afghan girls and their families, friends, and supporters?

        And the only good muslim of the originals was ashia, because she was a cute child bride?

  • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:41AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:41AM (#748226)

    TORTURE

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:43AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 13 2018, @08:43AM (#748227)

    Yes, no?
    Why or why not?

    Support your arguments.

  • (Score: 1) by fritsd on Saturday October 13 2018, @04:20PM

    by fritsd (4586) on Saturday October 13 2018, @04:20PM (#748336) Journal

    Obligatory press photo from last year:
    orb [theguardian.com]

    They've got the whoooole wooorld
    in their hands!

    They've got the whole wide wooorld
    in their hands!

    They've got the whooole woorld
    in their hands!

    They've got the whole world in their hands.

  • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 15 2018, @08:50AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 15 2018, @08:50AM (#748897)

    TORTURE!!!!!

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