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posted by martyb on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:01AM   Printer-friendly
from the poverty-sucks dept.

The poor often behave in less capable ways, which can further perpetuate poverty. We hypothesize that poverty directly impedes cognitive function and present two studies that test this hypothesis. First, we experimentally induced thoughts about finances and found that this reduces cognitive performance among poor but not in well-off participants. Second, we examined the cognitive function of farmers over the planting cycle. We found that the same farmer shows diminished cognitive performance before harvest, when poor, as compared with after harvest, when rich. This cannot be explained by differences in time available, nutrition, or work effort. Nor can it be explained with stress: Although farmers do show more stress before harvest, that does not account for diminished cognitive performance. Instead, it appears that poverty itself reduces cognitive capacity. We suggest that this is because poverty-related concerns consume mental resources, leaving less for other tasks. These data provide a previously unexamined perspective and help explain a spectrum of behaviors among the poor. We discuss some implications for poverty policy.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/341/6149/976


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  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by NPC-131072 on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:09AM (20 children)

    by NPC-131072 (7144) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:09AM (#758337) Journal

    Nor can it be explained with stress: Although farmers do show more stress before harvest, that does not account for diminished cognitive performance. Instead, it appears that poverty itself reduces cognitive capacity. We suggest that this is because poverty-related concerns consume mental resources

    It's not stress, it's stressful "poverty related concerns". Got it!

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:31AM (19 children)

      by sjames (2882) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:31AM (#758346) Journal

      It's not hard to understand. If you're busy trying to figure out how to keep things going when there isn't really enough money to make ends meet (or if you're not sure there's enough), you're not using those cognitive resources for other things.

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:49AM (18 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:49AM (#758364)

        Nonsense, I know people with middle class incomes who are depressed and constantly in debt because they take 12 vacations a year. In same breath they complain about the Credit Card bill and tell me about their trip to LA next weekend. People who go with me to a nice restaurant, complain about how they lvie paycheck to paycheck and are doled out in thousands of dollars worth of jewlery (I only owe one piece of jewlery, my wedding ring). Peopel who won't go to a $20 a plate dinner with me, because they say they are saving money, and by an $800 hair remover and $150 makeup kits. Stop trying to absolve these people from the responsiblity of their actions. They deserve less money, not more.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:10AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:10AM (#758369)

          Turn the other cheek bud, turn the other cheek.

          • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @05:10AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @05:10AM (#758389)

            Hungry. So, so hungry! The man, Rickson, ran to his storage closet to get some consumables. He used his key to open the door, grabbed a consumable item, and then went into his bedroom to feast upon it. It screamed.

            The little boy's screams were so loud and obnoxious that even people living several houses down could hear it. While Rickson thought that screaming so loud just because one was having their anus violated was a bit much, he ignored it and continued with his consumption. Yes, nothing could stand between this man and his feasting! No, rather, no one would dare to try.

            Slam! Slam! Slam! Rickson's penis slammed deep into the boy's anus, and his fists similarly slammed into the boy's face without end. Throughout this entire process, the man wore an absolutely disgusting smile on his face, which only served to further amplify the child's terror. Then, when Rickson felt that he had enjoyed the boy's fragile body enough, a loud snapping sound was heard and the little boy would never again utter a sound. Silence.

            However, that period of silence was a brief one. You see, Rickson realized that he hungered still, and slowly walked towards the locked closet in which he stored his consumables...

          • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:45PM

            by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:45PM (#758572) Journal

            For $800 he better be turning more than the other cheek!

            --
            --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:15AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:15AM (#758370)

          You should encourage these people to keep on spending, wildly, in particular on clothes and other high quality consumer small goods.

          I call it the shopaholic tax. Eventually they have too much and they (or their heirs?) donate to resale shops (Goodwill, Savers, etc). Often clothes have the original tags still attached (basically unworn/unused). At which point poor and frugal people can buy them for pennies on the dollar.

          I attended a memorial service a couple of weeks ago, one of the older folks (fixed income, not rich) came to the cemetery in jeans...and then found out that the following reception was in a venue with a "no jeans" dress code. She found a nice pair of black slacks in a resale shop when driving from one to the other, for something like $4.00, fit her perfectly. Told the story with a big grin over a nice memorial luncheon.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:53AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:53AM (#758379)

          Stop trying to absolve these people from the responsiblity of their actions.

          Found the impoverished Republican! Personal Responsibility! Just like Goldman-Sacks! And the Trump Foundation! I think the real problem is that you have accumulated such anecdotal evidence. Conservatives are always jealous of the rich, unless they are busy sucking up to them.

          • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @05:13AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @05:13AM (#758391)

            Do you honestly think that the average person is good at financial planning?

            Whatever your political ideology, if you reach the point of scoffing at the notion of spending one's money wisely, then you're being an idiot. It's true that people aren't poor because of poor financial planning alone, but that is definitely one factor that in the equation.

            • (Score: 3, Informative) by ikanreed on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:33PM

              by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:33PM (#758526) Journal

              It's a trivial factor.

              Rent is basically uncontrollable(unless you can get a mortgage which depends on not being poor), and income can be very uncontrollable. The things you can control by budgetting are dwarfed by those two factors. Lots of people spending over half their household income on having a place to live with a family, and no meaningful opportunities for career advancement.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by sjames on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:13AM (6 children)

          by sjames (2882) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:13AM (#758407) Journal

          OTOH, they don't have to think very hard about it if they need to save some bux one month. They're not poor, they're just foolish with money.

          The people who don't spend like that and still have to come up with some way to put the landlord off dor 3 days so they vcan pay rent and feed their kids have to expend some real cognitive resources.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @08:14AM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @08:14AM (#758421)

            They often make themselves debt slaves by being foolish with money. Just because you make a decent amount of money doesn't mean you're not poor.

            Also, thinking about how you need to start saving money isn't going to help you much in an emergency if you've been wasting all of your money since then.

            • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @11:22AM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @11:22AM (#758453)

              I make just over $20k/year, support 4 people, very comfortably, still take vacations and can't think of much I'm lacking. Not worried at all about expenses. My monthly budget is $1400 (half of which goes to insurance) that leaves me about $500/month of fun money. Our only frivolous expense is the internet. We don't go out, but very often we have lots of friends over (and visa versa).

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:04PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:04PM (#758606)

                Lol, 700 a month for rent/food for 4 people? Plus vacations and a worry free life? I smell internet level bullshit.

                • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @09:07PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @09:07PM (#758686)

                  Have cheap house in an inexpensive area of the country. These are not hare to find on zillow.

                  Eg, https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/TN/fsba,fsbo_lt/house_type/41729445_zpid/53_rid/3-_beds/0-30092_price/0-126_mp/pricea_sort/36.333934,-85.236054,34.8014,-87.696991_rect/8_zm/0_mmm/ [zillow.com]

                          Housing 20% 360
                          Food 17% 300
                          Auto 5% 100
                          Insurance 32% 650
                          Debts 0%
                          Entertainment 0% 1%
                          Clothing 1% 1%
                          Savings 0%
                          Medical/Dental 0% 1% (see ridiculously high insurance rate)
                          Miscellaneous 26%
                          School/Child Care 0% 1%
                          Investments 0%

                  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @09:41PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @09:41PM (#758706)

                    Same AC, replying to myself because no edit feature....

                    the 1% above should be less than symbol 1%. This budget was found at https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-household-budgetand [valuepenguin.com] I changed it to my own numbers. Also, I don't have a car, but added in the number for the few times when I need to get an uber somewhere. A lot of their categories are so low at my house (less than 1%) we just list under misc expenses.

                    Last year we went to Yosemite, Yellowstone and Acadia national parks and camped along the way. We saved up money for a year for those trips (rental car).

            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by VLM on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:58PM

              by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:58PM (#758476)

              debt slaves

              Being opposed to a debt based lifestyle struggle is Anti Semitic, AC....

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:41PM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:41PM (#758469) Journal

          Easy! They are actually extreme savers.
          That's well before fake news, so it must be true: the more you spend, the more you save.

          (grin)

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:51PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:51PM (#758535)

          Nonsense, I know people with middle class incomes who are depressed and constantly in debt because they take 12 vacations a year

          What if those vacations are what keeps them barely functional and somewhat productive? like, If they didn't take them maybe they wouldn't be able to hold the/a job at all. That would make the vacations a legitimate need for them.

          There was some research over the years showing workers that didn't consume caffeine, tobacco and (especially) alcohol couldn't hold their jobs for more than a few weeks. Getting drunk by the end of the shift was literally what kept all the long timers around. So many now that people drink and smoke less some folks need to break routines much more often. The 2 vs. 3 days weekend research papers definitely support this claim.

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:16PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:16PM (#758556)

            Even so, it's still not necessary to take expensive vacations that put you in debt. There are cheaper ways to enjoy time off.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by mcgrew on Tuesday November 06 2018, @05:40PM

          by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Tuesday November 06 2018, @05:40PM (#758595) Homepage Journal

          The people you're talking about aren't poor, and neither are the farmers before harvest. As someone above said, stress causes cognitive decline.

          The people you're talking about are well off and foolish, not poor.

          --
          mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by legont on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:37AM (7 children)

    by legont (4179) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:37AM (#758352)

    It took me decades to realize that many people don't do simple and reasonable tasks because they don't have mental capacity for them at the moment.

    Let me give an example of what I mean. Say a teacher has a very reasonable request for a student: listen for me and don't pick up you nose. With some it is extremely hard to achieve and it is not because the boy is fighting the teacher or has any malicious intents. He simply can not at the same time go against his habit (picking nose) and listen. His brain can't handle both at the same time.

    It does not mean that the boy is an idiot. He could become say a farmer and a very successful one at that. It's just we can't assume that certain things that easy for us are easy for everybody. Back to the article, I agree with their conclusion - a concern thought can consume a sizable chunk of mental capacity.

    --
    "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
    • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:57AM

      by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:57AM (#758381) Journal

      a concern thought can consume a sizable chunk of metal capacity..

      Um, the discussion about the kilogram it over there --->

    • (Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:41PM (5 children)

      by suburbanitemediocrity (6844) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:41PM (#758468)

      I really think a significant portion of education needs to be in life coaching for the modern world. Cooking, cleaning, budgeting, shopping, basic maintenance (change light bulb, check smoke alarm, oil door hinge, check for leaky faucet,...), behavioral modification, coping skills, etc.

      Nobody needs to know what happened in 1066, everyone needs to know how to cook a bowl of rice and to not get into a fight because somebody made fun of your shoes.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by legont on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:47PM

        by legont (4179) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:47PM (#758532)

        I think education should focus on skills like full attention and persistence. The best way to achieve this is to make children to learn a totally useless and hard subject, say ancient Greek language or Talmud.

        --
        "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:50PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:50PM (#758534)

        Parents (and other family members) used to teach all of that. What happened that we need to teach basic fundamentals like that in schools?

      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Tuesday November 06 2018, @05:43PM (1 child)

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Tuesday November 06 2018, @05:43PM (#758598) Homepage Journal

        I really think a significant portion of education needs to be in life coaching for the modern world. Cooking, cleaning, budgeting, shopping, basic maintenance...

        Your parents are supposed to teach you those things.

        --
        mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:38AM (14 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:38AM (#758354)

    Poor people almost universally vote Democrat.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:43AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:43AM (#758359)

      citation needed.

      I thought that poor people are less likely to vote than other higher-income groups.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by fyngyrz on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:44AM (7 children)

      by fyngyrz (6567) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:44AM (#758362) Journal

      Poor people almost universally vote Democrat.

      That's because it is a relatively easy, and smart, move for them to make. The Democrats have a well documented history of doing more for the poor, and less to the poor, than the Republicans do. When people's own health and circumstances are on the line, they'll tend to lean towards the choices that appear to offer more redress.

      Not saying the Democrats are pure of heart. They aren't. But they do have a fairly consistent track record in this regard.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @05:55AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @05:55AM (#758403)

        The Democrats have a well documented history of doing more for the poor, and less to the poor

        Oh yeah, just take a look at those Democrat controlled paradises like Detroit and Baltimore. The Democrats really do know how to do things """for""" the poor.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:12AM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:12AM (#758406)

          What specific policy positions do you disagree with?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:38AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:38AM (#758414)

            The result.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @08:17AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @08:17AM (#758422)

              What policies do you support that could have been implemented to avoid the situations in Detroit and Baltimore?

            • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Tuesday November 06 2018, @08:53AM

              by maxwell demon (1608) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @08:53AM (#758424) Journal

              You know the result? You did visit an alternative reality where different policies were tried, and got better results?

              --
              The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:56PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:56PM (#758540)

        Except that is not what is actually happening when you look at the demographic data. Analysis of a USAToday study shows differently.

        “Poorest states have Republican legislatures, and richest have Democratic ones.”

        https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/10/21/economic-profile-50-states-republicans-represent-poor-democrats-rich/ [breitbart.com]

        • (Score: 3, Touché) by legont on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:03PM

          by legont (4179) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:03PM (#758546)

          Yes, true. And a short version of why is that democrats royally screwed poor many times.

          --
          "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:49AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:49AM (#758365)

      Been dead since 2009. Creditors took a lot of my stuff, kids took the rest. I'm destitute no. No on is poorer than us dead people. And, I've voted Democrat in every election since then.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @02:52PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @02:52PM (#758501)

        The troll modded my post down. Real trolls have no sense of humor.

    • (Score: 1, Redundant) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Tuesday November 06 2018, @10:35AM

      by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @10:35AM (#758440) Journal

      > Poor people almost universally vote Democrat.

      Most people (poor or otherwise) in the Universe don't live in america, and therefore don't have the opportunity to vote for american political parties. Therefore, your statement is incorrect.

    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:48PM (1 child)

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:48PM (#758473)

      If you correct for the rise of identity politics and race, it becomes much less straightforward.

      Also with the black folks leaving the democratic plantation, its less of a correlation than used to be.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:07PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:07PM (#758610)

        Youre such a piece of crap you gotta project your racism too? Youre the worst

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:39AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:39AM (#758355)

    From the link, which points to the abstract:

    Science 30 Aug 2013:
    Vol. 341, Issue 6149, pp. 976-980
    DOI: 10.1126/science.1238041

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:40AM (7 children)

    by fyngyrz (6567) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:40AM (#758357) Journal

    The poor often behave in less capable ways, which can further perpetuate poverty.

    They are also compelled to behave in less capable ways by their very circumstance.

    My SO and I have adequate financial resources, and significant amounts of storage space, freezer space, etc. When there is a sale on X, we buy and store it in quantity. Beans, toilet paper, detergent, frozen veggies, whatever. This significantly reduces our unit cost on pretty much anything that can be stored longish term. If a person or a group is at the edge of their income stream, they won't be buying extra X on the cheap, they'll buy it as they need it at the price it is offered at the time. So a person or group on the financial edge buying X will make more of an impact on their finances than it will on mine both in simple dollar terms and even more so in how much it impacts their overall income stream.

    You may well call me cynical, but I don't think this particular confluence of circumstances is in any way accidental. It seems to me it is one of several easily visible mechanisms for keeping the poor, poor.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by TheRaven on Tuesday November 06 2018, @09:50AM (2 children)

      by TheRaven (270) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @09:50AM (#758433) Journal

      This is something that's annoyed me for a long time. I typically buy almost all non-perishable staples at a big discount when they're on offer and I can do this because I have some disposable income and storage space. I end up paying around half as much as someone who doesn't have this.

      Terry Pratchett wrote about this as the Sam Vimes theory of social economics in the Discworld books: Vimes observed that a rich person would buy an expensive pair of boots that would last 10 years. A poor person would buy one that cost a tenth the amount and lasted six months, because they couldn't afford the expensive pair. The poor person would spend twice as much and would still have wet feet because the cheap boots would start to leak before they were replaced.

      You may well call me cynical, but I don't think this particular confluence of circumstances is in any way accidental. It seems to me it is one of several easily visible mechanisms for keeping the poor, poor.

      This is where I disagree. It's obviously in the interests of the shops to shift large quantities of their products at a time. They have a bunch of fixed overheads that mean that a large sale at a lower price is better for them than a load of smaller sales over a longer period. That also makes it harder to fix. If this were some orchestrated policy to keep the poor in their place, then that's something that could be addressed fairly easily. When it's a natural consequence of a particular economic model (especially one that is also shared by pretty much any other plausible replacement) then it's much harder.

      It's a small scale example of the same problem as renting vs buying a house. You can't buy a house unless you have a big chunk of spare capital for the deposit, but if you can't buy a house then you're going to be paying more in rent than your landlord is paying on a mortgage for the same property, so people with less capital end up with higher living costs. That's a fundamental problem with any economic system that rewards owning capital more than performing labour. Unfortunately, every alternative that people have tried has worked out even less well.

      --
      sudo mod me up
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @11:29AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @11:29AM (#758455)

        I've experienced this...anybody who shops at harbor freight has. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do, but its not difficult to get out of.

        • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:12PM

          by Immerman (3985) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:12PM (#758516)

          > but its not difficult to get out of.

          That depends entirely on your available income stream. Before you can start getting out of the hole, you need to accumulate enough savings to start being able to buy the better-investment products. And when you're already doing most of your durable goods shopping at second-hand stores, and still having trouble keeping enough beans and rice on the table, that's not so easy to do.

    • (Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Tuesday November 06 2018, @10:48AM (1 child)

      by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @10:48AM (#758444) Journal

      To compound this, the poor person is less likely to own a second freezer / large freezer / any freezer. They will have a smaller home and no spare space to hoard a two-year supply of bargain tampons and bog roll.

      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:51PM

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:51PM (#758474)

        The real problem with #1 for poor people is the electricity bill, I'm not sure I run a net profit off my basement freezer even with aggressive Costco shopping.

        WRT #2 (Oh the pun) even as a starving student in a small apartment I had no trouble buying and storing a years supply of toilet paper in the bachelor years. Being a guy, a roll lasts awhile, I donno what girls do with that stuff (eat it for fiber?) but they seem capable of using more than one roll per day per girl.

    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:43PM (1 child)

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:43PM (#758470)

      There's the classic boot story where you can buy $100 boots annually if you're poor but that costs you $1K/decade but if you're "rich" you buy one $300 pair of boots every decade and only spend $300/decade and that savings is why they're rich to begin with.

      I myself am pretty well off but I can't afford to shop at Walmart for clothes that can only be worn once before the dyes wash out and seams fail and buttons fall off. $10 pants are too expensive for me to keep rebuying every season compared to off the rack $100 pants that last until I'm sick of wearing them.

      Something similar happens with cars, people who buy a beater and spend $750/mon on unpredictable repairs vs people who buy a new car and spend $250/mon on a payment.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:00PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:00PM (#758507) Journal

        I don't believe there is a pair of boots that will last me a decade. Navy boondockers, maybe, but they're so damned uncomfortable, NO ONE is going to wear them for a year, let alone ten years. Rich people who sit in offices, sit in country clubs, and sit around the pool all the time - yeah, I can see their boots lasting for a decade. But, they didn't pay $300 for durability. They paid $300 for the name on the boots. "No, Sir, Mr. Brown! There are no working class peasants shopping in MY store! Every pair of shoes we sell is unique, and no working man will ever buy them! These boots and shoes are for you rich folk! Oh, Sir - there's a spot on your boot, would you allow me to spit shine it with my tongue?"

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:18AM (11 children)

    by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:18AM (#758372) Homepage Journal

    I'm not going to let Wall Street get away with murder. Wall Street has caused tremendous problems for us. I know the guys at Goldman Sachs. They have total, total control over Senator Cruz. Over Lyin' Ted Cruz. And over so many of our politicians.

    So somebody asked me, "why did you appoint a rich person to be in charge of the economy?" I said, because that's the kind of thinking we want. Because they're representing the Country. They don't want the money.

    When you get the President of Goldman Sachs, having him represent us. This is the President of Goldman Sachs! He went from MASSIVE paydays to peanuts. They don't want the money. They're representing the Country. And they had to give up a lot to take these jobs. But these are people that are great, brilliant business minds, and that's what we need. That's what we have to have so the world doesn't take advantage of President Donald J. Trump. We can’t have the world taking advantage of us anymore. And I love all people. Rich or poor. But in those particular positions, I just don't want a poor person. Does that make sense? If you insist, I'll do it. But I like it better this way!!

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:57AM (10 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:57AM (#758383) Journal

      There is a time and a place, Mr. Not-actually-Donald-Trump. This is not that time. This is not that place. I've seen too many friends suffer and die, or worse, because of what poverty did to them, and may narrowly have escaped the same fate myself, *did* narrowly escape it several years ago. Just...shut up. This isn't even so bad it's good funny any more.

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2, Flamebait) by VLM on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:54PM (2 children)

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:54PM (#758475)

        If you're homeless, and jealous that I have a house, you will certainly feel better trash talking my home ownership then burning my house down. However, not only would you still be homeless, but now there's two homeless people instead of one.

        • (Score: 1, Redundant) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:01PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:01PM (#758509) Journal

          Misery loves company.

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:59PM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:59PM (#758542) Journal

          I truly hope you end up homeless. You have no understanding of what those people face. I *was* homeless, thankfully only for a brief period, in 2010 when my ex went batshit. And you know what? I didn't begrudge people who had homes their homes. My every thought was on 1) survival and 2) getting a place to live again.

          The fact that you automatically assume homeless people hate those better off than them says far, far more about you than them. None of it complementary. Your kind, for some reason, think every other human on the planet is the same sort of selfish, hateful moral no-o, and project your own failings onto them. And really, if the best you have is "I may be shit but so is everyone else," you have fallen very, very low.

          Then again, in this very thread you basically went "DA JOOZ WANT EVERYONE POOR HURR HURR HURR" so I'm not surprised with you. Just, as always, disappointed.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @07:21PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @07:21PM (#758649)

        Just...shut up.

        NO! You, just... tune out! You have no right to shut anybody up, no matter how offensive you find them. Just turn off your damn TV. If you gotta a problem with Trump, then look to his followers, not him. They are the foot soldiers, remember?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @07:38PM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @07:38PM (#758655)

          ????

          You're taking this as some first amendment attack?

          crazy bastards round'ere

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @08:46PM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @08:46PM (#758678)

            Yeah, you don't tell people to shut up (unless the decibel level is excessive), you turn your back. That is the only proper response to any speech that offends you. I mean, there's always heckling, which can be funny...

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @10:32PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @10:32PM (#758723)

              Nope, sometimes it is important for pepple to see that there is significant pushback against crap ideas. Mr. Trumptroll pushes Trump's ideas on here and they should be called out for the garbage they are.

              Ill pay attention to your whining once someone actually does something to make you/trumptroll shut up.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @11:17PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @11:17PM (#758742)

                You can push all you want as long as you don't block others who want to listen from hearing/reading. And telling a person to shut up only makes him, rightfully I will add, push back harder against any attempted silencing. That is not the kind of opposition to your "trumpism" I would ever support. That is a crap idea that begs for pushback, which is woefully inadequate. But hey, you're just playing the role of the fascist censor, the antagonist in this movie. Very revealing. Later tonight, we'll see how well your tactics work, in motivating the other side, because it sure worked for me when I voted :-)

                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday November 07 2018, @05:28AM (1 child)

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday November 07 2018, @05:28AM (#758844) Journal

                  You're making one fundamental mistake here: the guy's signal to noise ratio is in the shitter. It's actually negative, as in, you become less well-informed simply by reading his posts. I don't mind disagreeing with people, but this shit's a waste of electrons.

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 07 2018, @03:57PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 07 2018, @03:57PM (#759004)

                    Doesn't matter. Tune out! If anybody wants to follow, that is their right. If they are a majority, then that's the way the cookie crumbles. You just have to sell a better mouse trap.

  • (Score: 3, Touché) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:20AM

    by bzipitidoo (4388) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:20AM (#758408) Journal

    Wealth, particularly inherited wealth, spoils people. Allows them to be lazy thinkers, and no-good layabouts. Many succumb to the temptation. Your brain will not stay sharp it if isn't exercised, and a totally stress free and carefree life makes people slack.

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @09:18AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @09:18AM (#758427)

    I was with my wife in a poor country recently - the Philippines. And one thing you notice immediately is people don't plan ahead much. If something happens, it's always an "emergency" that no one really planned for. It's day-to-day living, always at the edge of disaster. There are many things that could be improved and money saved with a little forethought. But it simply is not a luxury they care to think about. That is tragic from a policy standpoint as things have to be done again and again and again.

    And it's not like the Philippines does not have educated people. It's one of the most educated poor countries out there. This allows it to export highly skilled workers around the world. But all you have to do is look at the state of sidewalks there. Or infrastructure in general and it dawns on you that people just want to "make it go" without foresight of how it should be in the future. Survive today, don't worry about tomorrow.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:08PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:08PM (#758513) Journal

      Try Djibouti, next time. Or some of the bush people in the rest of Africa. Almost any African refugee camp. The Philippines are a lot poorer than the US, but, they've a long way down to hit bottom, from what I hear.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by VLM on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:47PM (6 children)

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 06 2018, @12:47PM (#758472)

    Lets try an experiment and compare IQ of college students who don't have enough money to buy beer vs recent grads who mere years later are buying houses with software dev pay.

    Or even more fun, look at the majors that massively overproduce, my state graduates twice as many education degree kids as they have open school positions, so half the grads end up in low pay service like bartenderess or barista or waitress, compare the IQ and cognitive ability of the lucky half who get real jobs vs the unlucky half working at Starbucks.

    The study seems to assume poverty and socioeconomic class is permanent much like race, which is correct if you look at the world primarily first by race and then by economics, but if you look at the world first by economics, then the assumption doesn't hold up as there's plenty of white people who were once, perhaps recently, poor, yet they've always been pretty smart.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Immerman on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:19PM (3 children)

      by Immerman (3985) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @03:19PM (#758519)

      Or you could look at actual income statistics, and realize that social mobility has fallen steadily and dramatically, from 1950 when 70+% of Americans people were making more than their parents had, to well under 50% today. Let that sink in for a moment - despite a soaring GDP over most of that time, we're now in a situation where the majority of the American population is earning less than their parents did.

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:02PM (1 child)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday November 06 2018, @04:02PM (#758545) Journal

        He doesn't know, or care, about any of that. Please understand he's not here to discuss in good faith; his post history shows he's basically just here to stir shit up.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:13PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:13PM (#758612)

          Very telling in how these types reacted to winning the election. Rhe last one they lost exploded with racism, going so far as to hang and burn effigies of obama. When they win? Still hateful pricks acting like they are being oppressed becausenpeople say mean things about "their guy". Not to mention the absolute moral failings of the entire GOP right now.

          It is astounding.

      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday November 07 2018, @12:39PM

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 07 2018, @12:39PM (#758928)

        Agreed but whats the method of action? If it doesn't scale down to individuals and small groups, how does it work as an aggregate? That seems unlikely.

        A major change since the 50s has been demographic replacement. Thats gonna cause a lot of turmoil for anyone not rich. Genocide is not cheap.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:48PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @06:48PM (#758627)

      Next Up: How Bigotry Affects Critical Thinking

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @09:28PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06 2018, @09:28PM (#758697)

        My go-to is always the hypcrisy of leftist science-denying regarding race being an objective determinant of IQ and the finger-pointing at climate-science deniers.

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