posted by
martyb
on Thursday November 08 2018, @09:47PM
from the I-don't-see-what-you-did-there dept.
from the I-don't-see-what-you-did-there dept.
BBC:
More than 7,000 people still watch TV in black and white more than half a century after colour broadcasts began.
London has the most TV licences for black and white sets at 1,768, followed by 431 in the West Midlands and 390 in Greater Manchester.
A total of 7,161 UK households have failed to start watching in colour despite transmissions starting in 1967.
BBC2 was the first channel to regularly broadcast in colour from July that year with the Wimbledon tennis tournament.
The number of black and white licences has almost halved in the past five years and is down from 212,000 in 2000.
Aha! Those must be the last Manichaeans.
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
Thousands in UK Still Watch TV in Black and White
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 92 comments
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
(1)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 08 2018, @09:52PM (1 child)
Is not even a statistical blip. Slow news day?
(Score: 2) by driverless on Sunday November 11 2018, @11:28AM
Also, the title is wrong, it should be:
A B&W license is a third the cost of a colour one, and there's no enforcement as to whether you really are watching in B&W or not. I'm actually surprised the entire UK doesn't, uhh, "watch" in B&W.
Oh, and for people outside the UK, you need to pay a substantial yearly fee there each year for permission to watch TV. And that includes streaming it over the Internet.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday November 08 2018, @09:52PM (23 children)
They must be watching on some seriously old hardware. Where I live TV is not even broadcast in analogue any more, so your Philips K-9 would not work anymore anyway.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 08 2018, @09:56PM (4 children)
We all got digital to analog converters when digital was first mandated around here.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:02PM
The '60s came out with something for black-and-white to color conversion around here too, but subsequently declared it illegal. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide [wikipedia.org] )
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:12PM (1 child)
There were free deals for digital to analog converters in the US, but I was extremely glad to ditch my old CRT TV and my LCD TV already had Digital in addition to the Analog.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Friday November 09 2018, @05:46PM
I had a converter box for my old TV and wish I hadn't waited for the TV to die to replace it. It pulled 240 watts, the new, much bigger TV only pulls fifteen. CRTs are expensive to watch!
The #1 domestic terrorist organization in the US is ICE
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Thursday November 08 2018, @11:42PM
Exactly, I've got a digital converter box connected to a small CRT TV. It is color, but the other day I had it connected to a nice green-screen Apple IIc monochrome monitor. It works.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:16PM (17 children)
I would love to get some high quality monochrome displays. I know extremely expensive medical equipment is available, however the consumer options are very limited. I had an Asus EEE Note with a monochrome LCD a number of years ago (sadly a trip smashed the hell out its screen, though my ribs were mostly okay) that was very enjoyable, especially compared to the e-ink screens at the time. I still purchase e-ink hardware every few years, and they are definitely better every time, but I can only imagine how nice a modern monochrome, hiDPI, transflective LCD would be today.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Friday November 09 2018, @12:56AM (13 children)
Check out the Kobo Aura One. I bought one and it is awesome for just reading.
Designed in conjunction with a bunch of actual users, it is basically the hackers e-book. Does one job and does it well without any crap.
Large (7.8") very hi-def e-ink screen. Reads almost any format. (except amazon's proprietary crap, but you can convert with calibre)
Huge storage (mine has hundreds of books on it and is about 5% full).
Runs for ages on a single charge. Waterproof to 2m for 60 minutes.
Very expensive for what it is, but I'm very happy with it.
I recommend paying the extra bit and getting the sleep-cover for it too.
200 million years is actually quite a long time.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday November 09 2018, @02:05AM (7 children)
I checked it out after reading the review/comments of the new Amazon Kindle Paperweight at Arse Technica.
Aura One does look pretty good, and I guess the price is about right, given the relatively large size. I like that it supports the formats that Amazon won't touch.
I think it could use more storage, or better yet, microSD expandable storage (I'm fine if that means it loses waterproof rating). Especially if you are loading it with a bunch of PDFs or comics. I see that Amazon is selling new base models with 8 GB, and charging exactly $30 more for a 32 GB option. A 32 GB microSD card costs you or me just $7-10 (on Amazon's very own website). Even 128 GB costs less than $30. So it should be nothing for a device manufacturer to offer 16-32 GB in the base model, since they are given volume discounts. And believe me, I can get a hold of that much ebook/PDF/comic content.
Gripping right at the heart of this article, I would also prefer color e-ink. I expected to see color e-ink escape the labs long before we reached the 10th generation of Kindles, so I've been greatly disappointed. I don't own any tablets and I use a laptop to read ebooks and have been pleased with doing that so far. Now that Samsung and others are getting ready to launch their initial versions of flexible phones that convert into tablets, I find that more interesting than e-ink technology. Especially given that you get color, video, responsive controls, etc. The loss of weeks-long battery life is unfortunate, but manageable.
Let's see e-readers turn flexible, add color, or even add high framerate video [goodereader.com] ('arry Potter!). If not, I'll look for a tablet (flexible or not, not sure yet) with AV1 hardware decoding in 2021.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Friday November 09 2018, @04:28AM (4 children)
I'm getting old enough that I was not reading as much, just because it was a bit of an effort to focus on the small text in most books and wearing glasses for too long gives me a headache. Bumping up the font 50% meant that other e-books required way too much page turning. The Aura One is about the size of a trade paperback.
I've gone back to reading two or three books a week on it, mostly epubs. You really should check out the screen in real life. It's about 300 dpi and is amazingly sharp.
The backlight is excellent for reading in low light. Put it on about 5% and it makes everything clear without even being obvious it is on.
Mine is 8GB. Didn't have the 32GB option in Oz. Still way more storage than I need. Epubs seem to average about a meg. It could hold 8000 of them.
The one option it doesn't have that I would have liked to see was to read in landscape.
I don't like reading PDFs because they all seem to be formatted for A4 or US Letter size and it doesn't matter how high the resolution is, I can't easily read it without a lot of scrolling. PDFs are for printing not screens anyway. Rarely read comics, and if I did it would be on the 24" colour monitor.
We have those, they are called video screens and are different to books. Also, the main application they can think of is to show you ads. Fuck em.
200 million years is actually quite a long time.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday November 09 2018, @05:51AM (1 child)
https://us.kobobooks.com/products/kobo-aura-one [kobobooks.com]
If there was a 32 GB option for Kobo, I didn't see it on their website. So I brought up Amazon which is selling 8 GB and 32 GB.
The Kobo Forma [kobobooks.com] is shown with a landscape mode. I assumed they would all have this. Guess not.
If the screen is large enough, it could be sufficient for PDFs and comics. Your Kobo Aura One is 7.8", and the largest they offer is the Kobo Forma at 8.0" (not much difference there).
Using a flexible display could help with this. It doesn't even need to be fully flexible. Make it so that half the device is rigid, and half the screen can fold over. Then you could have a larger display and possibly a better aspect ratio, but make it easy to carry around.
I'm pretty sure you browse the web and maybe watch a video from time to time. Call it what it is, a tablet. E-readers are just as capable of showing you ads, as Amazon has proven. Otherwise, if ads are not baked into the system, when you use a PC, phone, tablet, or whatever, it's up to you to use software on your devices that don't show you ads.
I'd like a general purpose tablet device that can be used for everything. Clearly, e-ink has some big advantages over an LCD/OLED tablet. It's readable in sunlight, it's less straining on the eyes in a dark room, and it has better battery life. However, hypothetically, if there was an e-ink device that also displayed color, could refresh portions of the screen at up to 30 Hz (or maybe even 60 Hz) whenever needed (but still at "0 Hz" when reading a book), may or may not be flexible (choose the one you want), and didn't compromise PPI/quality due to any of these new features (basically, it doesn't look like shit, with no compromises made), then it could be considered the ultimate tablet device. Assume that the battery life would be about the same if you were only reading books in page turning mode, but would drop if you started using it for things like smooth scrolling or videos. The improved CPU/GPU performance needed should not hurt battery life since we've had devices with both high performance and low power cores for years. ARM's big.LITTLE successor DynamIQ could allow you to have a SoC with 6 high performance cores, 1 low power core, and 1 really low power core for e-reader mode.
From what I can tell, such a device (e-ink with color and/or video) is possible and there has been progress made towards it. But it is stuck in the R&D phase and may stay there for years. If they don't think they can market it, it may never leave the lab.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Friday November 09 2018, @07:09AM
The Forma came out after I bought the Aura. Have not really checked it out, as I am not upgrading at the moment.
The ideal device you describe does sound awesome, but I actually like the single purposedness of the Kobo. I wanted something to read books on, and that was all. I have a 17" asus laptop for big stuff, and a homebuilt desktop for really big stuff.
Have you looked at the screen that was on the original OLPC? Black/white reflective + colour emissive, both running at once. Quite innovative for its time, you'd think 10 years later they should have improved it.
In a way, I can see it being like the appeal of Apple stuff. The Kobo just works. Hopefully they'll release a software update with landscape mode, it would make PDFs and comics better, if still not great.
200 million years is actually quite a long time.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Friday November 09 2018, @05:55PM (1 child)
For $15K you can have better than 20/20 vision ($7500 per eye). The CrystaLens cures nearsightedness, farsightedness, astigmatism, and cataracts. Ask your eye doctor about them. I have one implanted in my left eye. I was very nearsighted since I was a kid, 20/200 without glasses, now that eye is 20/16. Sixty six years old and I don't even need reading glasses! I plan on having the other eye done soon.
If you can get steroid eye drops, they will give you cataracts and your insurance will pay all but $2K of it (they'll pay for standard implants that require reading glasses, the CrystaLens costs $1k per eye more). Best thousand bucks I ever spent!
Sadly, I'll have to pay the full $7500 because I'm on Medicare now, and vision isn't covered.
The #1 domestic terrorist organization in the US is ICE
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Friday November 09 2018, @10:37PM
Interesting, but I am not there yet.
With effort, I used to be able to focus closer than 2 inches in front of my eyes and read the microprint on AU currency, getting older that has moved out to about 10 inches.
With no strain I can currently focus from about 20 inches to infinity, it is just a little bit further than is comfortable reading for long periods with the font size in most books. I end up bringing the book in closer then having to exert effort to focus, or having to read under very bright lights which also bug me.
Regarding the insurance I am in AU and our system is a little bit different. Couldn't find the current cost of the lens, (in 2004 it was $920) but the procedure itself seems to be covered under our medicare system. :)
200 million years is actually quite a long time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @09:04AM (1 child)
The Dasung not e-Reader [the-ebook-reader.com] is advertising video playback and there demo seems convincing. They have launched at least two other products on indiegogo, so they have track record of shipping, and also of being extremely expensive.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday November 09 2018, @09:36AM
It's interesting, and definitely on the way to becoming useful and hitting the points I mentioned. The name is pretty clever.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/not-ereader-first-e-ink-mobile-phone-monitor#/ [indiegogo.com]
They don't mention a frame rate. It looks like 12-15 Hz. Still, you can see a clear benefit for pinch-to-zoom and PDFs.
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/dont-buy-e-reader-upcoming-technologies-kill-kindle/ [makeuseof.com]
^ This page mentions CLEARink. Claims 33 Hz, 4096 colors. So far, their demos don't look great:
https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2018/05/26/clearink-shows-off-disappointing-color-screens-at-display-week/ [the-ebook-reader.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @08:54AM
I have a Likebook Mars [the-ebook-reader.com] that I like well enough, as well as an Onyx Boox from a generation or two back. However I was thinking more of PC displays and how nice that would be. There are a few e-ink reader/tablets that have HDMI in and/or wifi screen mirroring, but they are painfully expensive and you still have the ghosting/lag of e-inks refresh (which is getting better every generation). Dasung seems to be the main company doing this, with some of the newer Onyx adding the feature. Again, I would love to see a modern monochrome LCD, the sharpness and clarity would be crazy given that you could have three pixels for each colored one (one each for red green blue).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @02:27PM (3 children)
Lack of SD card is a bit of a deal breaker there, my nook simple touch is getting a bit long in the tooth and my eyesight is getting a wee bit worse, I'd like a larger new home for it's 32Gig SD card, a thought though, does this beastie support OTG storage?
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Saturday November 10 2018, @11:44AM (2 children)
I don't think so. It is designed to be a book. No more, no less. It does a superlative job of being something to read. But that's it. No extras, no bullshit. It's a book, you read it. If it does anything extra above that, it is because it didn't interfere with it being a book. A book that you read.
To be clear here, it is designed for bibliophiles. People who like to read books. It doesn't text, tweet, email or play videos. It is a book.
(Also, contrary to my post above, apparently you can install 3rd party KOReader and read in landscape format. but it is still a book*. That you read.)
*actually many, many, books. As I said, 400 books and it's 5% full.
If I sound like a bit of a fanboy here it is because I like to support companies that actually produce a good product. As far as e-books go I consider the Kobo Aura One expensive but still so good that it is excellent value. :)
200 million years is actually quite a long time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 10 2018, @07:07PM (1 child)
No worries, just that I lug around several thousand datasheets and reference books on my Nook Simple Touch as well as the couple of thousand works of fiction, they all currently fill a 32GB SD card, were transferred to it a couple of years ago, and as well as being my primary 'book', it has been my portable reference library ever since.
The Nook is starting to show it's age (being fair to it, it has travelled FSM knows how many thousands of miles, been stuffed in tool bags, rucksacks, camera bags, panniers etc. and it still manages to go over three weeks between charges) alas, so are my eyes (what I could read without issue on the Nook's screen a few years ago, now causes problems even with bifocals), which is why this beastie was of interest.
Had the Kobo supported USB OTG then it would have meant that I could work around the local storage capacity limitation by keeping my current Nook library on one of my USB sticks and transfer the required files to the beastie as and when I needed them without having to resort to lugging around a laptop as well.
Which is exactly what I'm looking for, as there appears to be mutterings about a 32GB model, I'll keep a listening watch.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Saturday November 10 2018, @10:20PM
Actually, it does have wifi and pocket integration and overdrive, I just don't use them. You could maybe look into putting all your stuff on a pocket server somewhere.
If screen real estate is important, the new Kobo Forma looks good too. The landscape screen is only slightly bigger, 8.0" vs 7.8" but it gives you much more width.
200 million years is actually quite a long time.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Reziac on Friday November 09 2018, @02:25AM
There's one thing I sorely miss about my old Herc mono amber displays: They were easy on the eyes. Black was BLACK, bright didn't glare. Unfortunately they had about a 3 year lifespan in everyday use, so I was always scrounging for replacements.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 1) by Acabatag on Friday November 09 2018, @02:52AM
I still have a paper-white SVGA monitor. I stuck with monochrome VGA for a long, long time because I'm cheap that way. It's not in use these days but it's sitting in storage.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @03:03PM
Check out the 'Industrial' equipment auction sites for secondhand medical displays, one of them here in Britain had a large number up for auction a month or so ago, not so much secondhand, but surplus old-new stock.
(Score: 3, Funny) by VLM on Thursday November 08 2018, @09:55PM (4 children)
Wrong terms, thats "AfroAmerican and Racist" television. Which, in the USA, is strangely accurate anyway.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 08 2018, @11:20PM (3 children)
Oh Hell! Just call it 'coon & cracker' TV. It even has a ring to it...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @07:14PM
In Israel, they call it 'heeb & goyem' TV.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @07:24PM (1 child)
Now I'm afraid to ask what NTSC stands for.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 10 2018, @01:20AM
Never Twice the Same Color
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:00PM (6 children)
According to google (well, their summary of some page somewhere) the color license costs ~3x as much (150 vs 50 pounds). So do you think these people really watch on old hardware? or are just being cheap?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:29PM (3 children)
Considering how obnoxious the TV Police in the UK are, I expect they really are using old hardware. Those guys have the right to search your house for unlicensed TVs.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @01:55AM (2 children)
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @04:33AM (1 child)
The detectors worked. They looked for heterodyne frequencies from the tuning circuits.
(Score: 2) by Webweasel on Friday November 09 2018, @12:41PM
Why was the evidence never submitted to court then?
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:36PM
It's all about the cheap - same as when people kept their rotary phones because touchtone cost an extra $3 per month...
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by mth on Friday November 09 2018, @11:46AM
Does it really make sense to the B&W license to be cheaper though? Maybe it made sense when color TVs were new and the people reaping the benefit of color broadcast would be asked to pay for higher production costs. But today the production and distribution costs will be the same regardless of whether it's being watched in color or not.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by VLM on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:01PM (2 children)
I suspect the anecdotes in the links are true, however, I also suspect based on experience with elderly relatives, that most are seniors in nursing homes who don't even have a TV and just auto-pay the bills.
I have two elderly relatives paying $50/mon for legacy analog landline phone lines. Would not be surprised if they're still paying memberships for 1970s gyms or 1980s video rental places. Kinda like AOL, if people are willing to send money, they'll take it...
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Thursday November 08 2018, @11:38PM (1 child)
I'd be extremely surprised, simply because I can't imagine how they would've survived after the arrival of chains like Blockbuster.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Mykl on Friday November 09 2018, @12:32AM
Easy - they were propped up by elderly people who just paid their bills without checking!
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:20PM
I bet they're all friends and relatives of public servants working in the department issuing those licenses.
compiling...
(Score: 3, Touché) by Freeman on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:21PM (18 children)
Do I understand correctly that they're paying £50 B/W or £150 Color for a yearly license to receive over the air broadcasting? That's not cable? That seems a bit crazy to me, but then again so does the consumption of snails.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:25PM (5 children)
It's not crazy, you just get confused by things that are outside your experience.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:34PM (4 children)
I assume, they have just as many commercials as their American counterparts? While I'm sure it made sense at some point, I'm curious as to what those costs are covering. Is this money that is directly funneled into the BBC? Then again, if it saved me $150 on my taxes, I would be quite happy to not receive over the air broadcasting.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bob_super on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:58PM (1 child)
AFAIK, the Beeb is ad-free.
The license fee is how they are funded and -in shaky theory- free of outside influence.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by kazzie on Friday November 09 2018, @07:56AM
Also, because the BBC is ad-free (and only have a short trail or continuity slot instead), commercial broadcasters keep their ad breaks fewer and shorter than in Canada/USA, to avoid alienating viewers.
(Score: 5, Informative) by wonkey_monkey on Thursday November 08 2018, @11:20PM (1 child)
The only "commercials" are for themselves, between programmes (with the exception of political ads around election time, which are scrupulously allocated among the major parties, and they warn you they're coming so you can change over).
World-renowned drama, documentaries, natural history programmes, films, science and technology coverage, 24-hour rolling news coverage (a mixed blessing, some would say), current affairs, sports coverage (every single event at the 2012 Olympics in HD), music, children's television, Radios 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Live, 6Music, 1Xtra, Asian Network, the World Service and various local radio stations, iPlayer, coverage of Parliament, research and development of new broadcasting technologies, and Simon McCoy [youtube.com].
"Alright, point taken, but apart from that, what has the BBC ever given us? [youtube.com]"
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Friday November 09 2018, @04:23PM
I'm part of the unwashed masses that immigrated to America, so I've not had the pleasure to watch their geolocked data stream. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32718259 [bbc.com] Though, apparently that's partially the American TV Networks fault.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:29PM (1 child)
Yes, a license fee is collected to fund the BBC, which is otherwise not assisted by public money. I believe it is also supposed to be remitted if you stream anything from the BBC's online service (iPlayer?). Or at least that is what I have gathered from the "Oi, you got a loicense?" meme.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Friday November 09 2018, @07:50AM
Correct, although other broadcasters with some public service broadcast remist (such as Channel 4) also receive money from the license fee.
Until a few years, the law only required a license to watch or record live broadcasts of TV. That excluded watching catch-up streams, but not live streams. As streaming services have become mainstream now, that loophole was removed.
(Radio, in live or catch-up form, is license free.)
(Score: 2, Disagree) by JoeMerchant on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:48PM (6 children)
BBC is basically state run premium programming, with an optional tax to receive it or not.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by wonkey_monkey on Thursday November 08 2018, @11:45PM (5 children)
It is quite specifically not state run.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday November 09 2018, @12:41AM (2 children)
Sorry, state funded, in the way that PBS is state funded in the US.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @02:31AM (1 child)
You are obviously not a PBS viewer.
Otherwise, you would be very familiar with the corporate sponsors named before a show starts and those periodic weeks of public begging (er, pledge drives).
PBS gets 80% of its funding from non-government sources.
https://www.quora.com/What-portion-of-PBS-funding-comes-from-the-federal-government [quora.com]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday November 10 2018, @12:44AM
True enough, however, what corporate sponsor supplies more than 20% of PBS' funding?
Mr. Rogers made a very compelling case to Congress, and I'm sure over the years Congress has made a compelling case or two to PBS executives - whether that was made public or not.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Touché) by Unixnut on Friday November 09 2018, @03:08PM
> It is quite specifically not state run.
No, they leave the running bit to the private sector, but it is state approved, with indirect control by government.
Personally, I don't particularly like paying for my own brainwashing, hence I have never paid for a TV licence. They do give you no end of hassle though, because they cannot believe there exist people who can survive without being glued to the idiot box.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @05:52PM
A mere quibble.
Technically it isn't state run, the British state realised that direct control would look 'communist/fascist' and would impair the BBC's usefulness to them as a propaganda machine, overt state control would immediately get the good old British public's backs up and lead them to question the words of wisdom spake unto them by the Beeb presenters in their best 'Queen's English'¹..the state can and does exert indirect executive 'puppetmaster' control at 'arms length' via multiple strings, and the BBC has always been under their (sometimes, not so) discreet heel.
Exhibit 1 The Old Board of Governors [wikipedia.org]
Exhibit 2 The BBC Trust [wikipedia.org]
Scope out the names, the titles, the gongs awarded, the careers... oh so establishment...
of course, this was the past, now we have
Exhibit 3 The BBC Board [wikipedia.org]
Oh look, more of the same...
Basically, toe the unspoken and unwritten government line, get rewarded, go 'off message' no gongs for you...
The grunts@theBBC have, historically, always been above a certain 'class' (minimum standard: lower middle) and enjoyed better pay than the rest of us, as the years went by, the staff 'diversity' widened out a bit, especially the further down the payscales you went (and the gruntier the work became..), but the wonks in charge were all still 'establishment' irrespective of creed, sexual foibles, overt political leanings or race, and knew full well which side their bread was buttered...(oh, and 'back in the day' when I had a peripheral involvement as technical support to some people involved in the wonderful world of entertainment, the 'gay mafia' ran the BBC in London, the 'teuchter mafia' in Scotland, I'm now a decade++ out of touch with the people I knew in the broadcasting world so don't know if this is still the case.)
¹That was then, and I used to hate them for being so fucking elitist, but now we have the horrors of barely comprehensible 'regional' presenters whose patois would be more at home on a mid-90's local pirate radio station than a national broadcaster. I've a reasonable ear for accents/dialect (worked for over 25 years with people whose first language wasn't english), but I've heard stuff on the BBC over the past couple of years that I've not been able to decipher...ah, diversity! the gift that keeps giving...maybe the BBC wonks of old had a valid point about 'received pronunciation'.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @01:52PM
Snails can be delicious.
Earlier this week, I made some sea snail and mushroom (chanterelle and black trumpet) soup:
Sear the snails, mushrooms, and onions then briefly saute with butter, garlic, parsley, and pepper.
Add to a vegetable stock along with milk and cream (~2.5:1:1), then thicken with a golden brown roux.
Before service, mix in finely chopped scallions and fresh parsley.
It pairs well with soft breads like pop-overs or dinner rolls.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Friday November 09 2018, @05:58PM (1 child)
You're confusing England with France. The English have TV licenses, the French eat snails.
The #1 domestic terrorist organization in the US is ICE
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Friday November 09 2018, @06:57PM
I do understand that the french are known for eating escargot. It was just meant to show that some things may not make sense to me, but doesn't mean it's not normal for others.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:47PM
It may be black and white, but is it worth watching?
If we sing a slaying song tonight, what tools will be used for the slaying?
(Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:56PM (6 children)
I don't even own a tv. What does that make me?
(Score: 2) by The Archon V2.0 on Thursday November 08 2018, @10:57PM
> I don't even own a tv. What does that make me?
A target for their spy vans.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Thursday November 08 2018, @11:24PM (3 children)
If you stream BBC on any device, you need a license.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @07:26PM (2 children)
It's a bit more than that, from About your TV License on the back of my paper license
Note that section a) covers all live streams, not just BBC programming, so even if your only pleasure in life is watching 'Mongolian Yak herding, live from Darkhan-Uul' streams here in the UK (as 'One Man and His Dog' just no longer quite cuts it...), the BBC want their pound of flesh from you.
In effect, it's a stealth internet tax levied to keep them in the style to which they have become accustomed (after all, talentless shitheads like Chris Evans [wikipedia.org] don't come cheap [bbc.co.uk])
¹So pedantically, clause b) only legally applies if you use BBC iPlayer to watch this content.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Friday November 09 2018, @07:39PM (1 child)
I wonder what they do about the datacenter in London via which I stream BBC programs? Do they ask the datacenter if it has a license? On the other hand, the IP address is listed with a location that is in the middle of the Thames, so enquiries might be difficult.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @09:39PM
Funnily enough, most of these places if they're manned usually do have a License as there's usually a TV somewhere on the premises, this has been the case every place I've worked.
Know thee not the ways of the crack BBC Maritime License enforcement brigade (Underwater branch)? [divingalmanac.com]
(Though seriously, I do remember an old Black&White Public Propaganda Film showing inspectors doing the rounds of boats in some harbour looking for unlicensed TV sets).
They might be logging the IP numbers and doing traffic analysis to identify such behaviour, but as the people behind the collection of the license (Crapita) are spectacularly useless [duckduckgo.com] I wouldn't worry.
(Score: 3, Informative) by wonkey_monkey on Thursday November 08 2018, @11:25PM
This guy [theonion.com].
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Thursday November 08 2018, @11:22PM (2 children)
Or are they just buying a B&W license?
Enforcement of TV licenses is largely based on whether there is a license registered to an address. I doubt that there is an actual check on whether only B&W equipment is being used or not. This is a way to save a few pounds each year. I am actually surprised that the number is so low.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 3, Insightful) by kazzie on Friday November 09 2018, @08:08AM (1 child)
They might have been paying by recurring direct debit since they owned a B&W TV, and haven't update the payment since.
It's a long stretch to suggest that's the case for all of them. though.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Friday November 09 2018, @06:06PM
"All", perhaps not.
Almost all: certainly. Any B&W TV set must be at least 30 years old now. They are museum pieces and repairs are likely to cost more than a new set.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Thursday November 08 2018, @11:38PM (5 children)
I'm looking to buy a new TV this Salesgiving. Heard a rumor of a 55" 4k HDR for $300. 55" is too big for where I want to put it, but if a 55" is cheaper than the 44" I'm looking for I might be motivated to rearrange/replace some furniture.
Where did I hear that rumor? Who knows, it just got me thinking. I won't know for sure until day after Salesgiving what I'm buying.
Recent research has shown that 1 out of 3 Trump supporters is a stupid as the other 2.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 08 2018, @11:50PM
Enjoy your telescreen.
(Score: 2) by martyb on Friday November 09 2018, @02:23AM (3 children)
Thanks for the reminder... I'm now writing a follow up story to my request for info on buying a 43-inch UHD HDR TV [soylentnews.org] to use as a computer monitor. If all goes well, it should be out with a day.
Just a heads up that some retailers are offering Black Friday specials well before Thanksgiving; some are already available!
Here's one resource I found: https://bestblackfriday.com/ [bestblackfriday.com]; be sure to scroll down and look at the different categories by stores, products, etc.
Here's another: https://www.cnet.com/news/black-friday-2018-deals-laptops-pcs-chromebooks-tablets-monitors-and-more/ [cnet.com].
Good luck!
Wit is intellect, dancing. I'm too old to act my age. Life is too important to take myself seriously.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday November 09 2018, @02:29AM
https://slickdeals.net/ [slickdeals.net]
https://slickdeals.net/blackfriday/ [slickdeals.net]
These are the money-grubbing people I pay attention to.
I may do a journal for Black Friday. Not sure if I care this year.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Friday November 09 2018, @06:01PM (1 child)
4K is overkill on a screen that small. On my 55' there is only a tiny difference between 1080 and 4K.
The #1 domestic terrorist organization in the US is ICE
(Score: 2) by martyb on Wednesday November 14 2018, @11:54PM
Disagree. I use the TV as a computer monitor and it is currently at arm's length from me. My previous monitor, at the same distance, had a resolution of 1920x1200 with a 24-inch diagonal. The new screen greatly increases the amount of information I'll be able to look at at the same time. In layman's terms, I got a bigger desk.
Wit is intellect, dancing. I'm too old to act my age. Life is too important to take myself seriously.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @12:54AM (2 children)
Living outside the UK coverage area, where the BBC iPlayer is geoblocked, I'd be happy to pay the UK TV license just for the excellent programming that is produced by the BBC.
I'm just lucky that here in Australia we have the ABC (which is publicly funded, but not government controlled), and the ABC brings in most good programs from the BBC and broadcasts them ad free. The ABC has a smaller budget and produces a few programs of its own, but nowhere near as much as the BBC.
No license fee here, it's just part of the regular federally collected taxes.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 09 2018, @03:18AM (1 child)
VPN's work, sometimes, for those of us outside of the UK. Unfortunately, VPN IP addresses have been blocked in the past. I would expect that SOMEONE would come up with a legal, or semi-legal scheme to rebroadcast outside of "authorized" regions. As you state, you would be willing to pay the full license fee. There are probably millions of others who would be willing. My wife, for instance, would never pay the full licensing fee, but if it were cut to about 25%, she might go for it. Me? Highly unlikely that I would ever pay anything. I'd prefer to "pirate" the odd program that appeals to me.
There is obviously a market out there, that the BBC would be wise to exploit, even if that market were less lucrative than their local monopoly.
I'm going to buy my defensive radar from Temu, just like Venezuela!
(Score: 2) by Unixnut on Friday November 09 2018, @07:24AM
> VPN's work, sometimes, for those of us outside of the UK. Unfortunately, VPN IP addresses have been blocked in the past. I would expect that SOMEONE would come up with a legal, or semi-legal scheme to rebroadcast outside of "authorized" regions.
Get a small VPS in the UK, and set up your own VPN system (could be a simple as a point to point SSH tunnel).
VPS IPs are far more wide ranging than VPN ones, and they are not going to be blocked easily. Also, if you don't advertise your VPN service or otherwise take money for it, chances are they would never know where you are really based.
A lot of techy British ex-pats use the above method when they are abroad but want to watch the Beeb. It works pretty well, but just make sure you get a VPS with enough bandwidth (and allocated data) to sustain your streaming demands.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by deimtee on Friday November 09 2018, @01:02AM (4 children)
Given the population of the UK, I would expect at least that many fully colour-blind individuals. Why would you pay extra for the colour license if you can't see it.
200 million years is actually quite a long time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @07:06AM
Indeed, good call! Let's do the math. Apparently total color blindness (aka achromatopsia) affects around 1 in 30,000 people (worldwide, old figure). UK population seems to be around 66 million (in 2017). That'd mean 2200 people. If we include partial color blindness variants in, the number will be much higher.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Friday November 09 2018, @08:14AM
Perhaps the other residents of the household would like colour.
There is a (separate) 50% discount if the license holder is (registered) severely blind, but no such concession for the colour blind that I'm aware of.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Friday November 09 2018, @06:03PM (1 child)
Few color blind people are completely color blind. My dad hated the term. "I can see colors, just not the same ones as you." He resisted getting a color TV at first but finally got one.
The #1 domestic terrorist organization in the US is ICE
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Friday November 09 2018, @09:05PM
I know that, its why I specified 'fully colour-blind'. (I have a very mild case of protanomaly.)
The incidence of colour deficiency is around 7% of males. In the UK that would be over 200,000 not 7000.
200 million years is actually quite a long time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09 2018, @01:18AM
I never watch TV in black and white. It's so IBM or FBI.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday November 09 2018, @02:23AM (4 children)
?
If I watched Dr. Who off of a streaming service on my phone, would I have to pay the tax for my phone?
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by pTamok on Friday November 09 2018, @07:05AM (3 children)
If I watched Dr. Who off of a streaming service on my phone, would I have to pay the tax for my phone?"
If it is a BBC originated stream, watched in the UK, then yes*. I'm not sure what the status is for non-residents (e.g. tourists) There are some odd rules around broadcasting by cable and satellite in the EU, so you might be able to watch a stream in another EU country if your phone can receive the Over-the-Air broadcast from satellites that point (mostly) at the UK.
https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/satellite-and-cable-directive [europa.eu]
The directive is due to be changed to 'catch up' with the rise of Internet-based distribution, including streaming.
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9136d4c6-49d2-43c0-a094-9686a2fd3516 [lexology.com]
*The rules changed relatively recently: it used to be that you only needed a licence if the stream was a simulcast with the OTA programme - using the BBC's online service to watch the programme at other times did not require a licence, but that changed.
(Score: 2) by Unixnut on Friday November 09 2018, @03:29PM (2 children)
Its a lot more complicated than that, as the TV licence is not attached to the person, but the household.
For example. I don't have a TV, or the TV licence, which is fine as I don't watch TV. However, if a friend comes round (who does pay the TV licence) and wants to show me something streamed on their device from their iplayer account, can they do so legally?
Believe it or not, the answer apparently is "it depends on whether the device is plugged in". If the device is plugged into anything in my house (e.g. a charger), then it is considered part of my household and, as I don't have a TV licence, you cannot watch BBC on it.
However, if the device is standalone and not plugged into anything, it is fine to watch BBC on it, because it is then covered by the owners licence (as a temporarily remote nodepoint from their household), a bit like how back in the day you could watch the bbc on a portable/pocket TV when outside, because you pay the TV licence in your house.
The same logic results in you being able to stream the BBC to your device while on a train, or in a cafe, without worrying whether they have a TV licence or not.
The above applies even if they use my net connection for the stream. So you end up in a situation where you can watch BBC in my house without a TV licence, as long as the machine it is watched on belongs to a TV licence payer, and it is not connected to my house in any way.
In reality, it is unlikely anyone is going to bust down your door and arrest you if your friend shows you a stream on their device while it is plugged into a charger, the law itself is quite convoluted with regards to licensing.
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Friday November 09 2018, @03:51PM (1 child)
Well, I was assuming that MDC owned the phone, and it was powered of its own internal batteries at the time.
I am aware of the extreme convolutions of the regulations, and was trying to keep it relatively simple.
It looks like with Brexit, the UK will probably not participate in the (digital) single market, so any hopes of ex-pats being able to get BBC legitimately across the EU/EEA look to be emaciatedly slim at best.
The media conglomerates are not going to like being forced to offer pan-single market deals. It will hit their revenues, no matter what, and has the potential remove service from inhabitants of countries with below average purchasing power if the media giants play hard-ball and refuse to offer pan-single market low price deals. I can see that being spun as the EU's fault.
(Score: 2) by Unixnut on Friday November 09 2018, @05:23PM
Don't even get me started on Brexit. Ever since the vote the number of EU companies willing to offer me contracts has dwindled to almost nothing, and even then, only the occasional short 3 month stint, with no auto renewal or permanence offered. Companies don't want to bother with the headache and uncertainty of my ability to live and work in the EU, so go for other contractors.
As such, I have to pack up and head back to the UK, after years living in the EU, with no idea if there will be any decent work for me there. At least I will have the TV licence harassers to entertain me again...
Truth be told, I suspect pan-single market deals on TV access to the be the least of the UK's worries, especially if they end up with a hard Brexit, as seems likely to occur.
> I am aware of the extreme convolutions of the regulations, and was trying to keep it relatively simple.
Come now, how could you leave it out? Half the fun is in the convolutions of the regulations. :-) It's the only silver lining to the whole mess!