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posted by martyb on Monday December 03 2018, @09:18PM   Printer-friendly
from the poking-the-bear dept.

Qatar Will Pull Out Of OPEC, As Rift With Saudi Arabia Deepens

Qatar plans to leave OPEC in January, shaking up the alliance of oil-producing nations and furthering its dispute with Saudi Arabia. Qatar made the announcement on Monday — the same day it informed OPEC.

Qatar's Energy Minister Saad al-Kaabi said the small Persian Gulf country will leave OPEC because it wants to focus on natural gas — a sector in which Qatar is a world leader. But the move also draws another line of division with Saudi Arabia, the only country with which Qatar shares a land border.

Saudi Arabia cut diplomatic ties with Qatar in June of 2017, in a dramatic move that was matched by Egypt, the United Arab Emirates and others. Since then, Saudi Arabia has maintained a boycott against Qatar, a country that has sometimes pursued its own foreign policy goals against the will of its fellow Sunni states.

[...] Qatar's exit from the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries will become official on Jan. 1, 2019, Kaabi said at a news conference in Doha Monday. The country will still attend the group's winter meeting in Vienna, which is scheduled to begin on Thursday.

See also: Qatar to quit OPEC after more than 57 years, denies decision related to Saudi-led boycott


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  • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday December 03 2018, @09:50PM (1 child)

    by Gaaark (41) on Monday December 03 2018, @09:50PM (#769301) Journal

    Alberta joins OPEC.

    Justin Trudeau tweets "Canada will donate $50 million to the new OPEC...let's get 'er done, eh!......oooohMan I am sooo. high."

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 5, Funny) by RandomFactor on Monday December 03 2018, @11:35PM

      by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 03 2018, @11:35PM (#769335) Journal

      That's OMAN, close, but no QATAR.

      --
      В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday December 03 2018, @11:09PM (25 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday December 03 2018, @11:09PM (#769331) Journal

    This is the first sign of a major oncoming crack-up in the oil cartel, if you ask me. I think even Saudi Arabia knows oil is on its way out, though.

    The US is heading for some major, major hurt with both the increasing irrelevance of oil itself, and the increasing trend for pulling away from the (petro)dollar as the global reserve currency. Karmically, we deserve it; the US has basically been draining the world dry on a promise and an IOU and trying to force all and sundry to use the dollar as the default currency of reserve. When the global dollar divorce happens, and if I'm reading the timeline right it's not only inevitable but accelerating, all hell is going to break loose here. If we'd started working on thorium and concentrating solar 10-20 years ago we'd be in a much better position...

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Gaaark on Monday December 03 2018, @11:43PM (2 children)

      by Gaaark (41) on Monday December 03 2018, @11:43PM (#769337) Journal

      Alberta, here in Canada, WAS pulling in TRAIN LOADS of money from oil. They were swimming in it!

      So, instead of putting it in the bank and lending it out or whatever it is you do with buckets of money, they spent it wildly making EVERYONE happy.

      I thought: "Ooops, bad move. Just wait til the price of oil drops."

      NOW, Justin Trudeau is spending my taxes on bailing THEM AND a US company out by buying a pipeline that won't be built and making promises galore......sigh. If only people had brains and politicians used them.

      If they had spent all that excess on, say, solar research etc.
      If only Trudeau wasn't wasting money on a dying industry.

      If only Trudeau would cry and apologize to me for wasting my money while high.
      https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-criticized-for-tweet-to-trevor-noah-pledging-50-million-to/ [theglobeandmail.com]

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 06 2018, @04:48PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 06 2018, @04:48PM (#770721)

        I didn't have a high opinion of Trudeau coming into your elections a few years back, but I warmed to him, thinking 'maybe he'll turn out to be the right guy'. But much like Obama it was just more carefully tailored imaging before he turned out to be another tool of the status quo.

        Don't worry though, you guys are now perfectly aligned to have the Canadian Donald Trump so you can MCGA... Although that looks more like an 80s graphics standard than a slogan for Canadian revitalization and pride :D

        • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday December 06 2018, @05:27PM

          by Gaaark (41) on Thursday December 06 2018, @05:27PM (#770736) Journal

          Yeah, he got elected on his name and looks: our very own 'celebrity' leader. He did get 'managed' effectively at first but he's gotten out of control with his apologizing, crying and spending our tax money (notice he didn't offer to donate his own money to that celebrity cause... but CANADA'S money? Hell yeah.
          Someone needs to freeze his twitter account and silence him.

          He's quickly becoming a loser leader who will be tossed, and unfortunately that will open things up big time for the Conservative losers.

          Here's hoping Green get in (i can dream about a GOOD future for Canada, can't i?)

          MCGA by voting for someone other than the big 2(.25) parties: lets vote for (hoping) some integrity (and not just in Canada).

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by PartTimeZombie on Monday December 03 2018, @11:51PM (8 children)

      by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday December 03 2018, @11:51PM (#769339)

      Oil is on it's way out of course, because we're not making any new oil, but in the meantime the Saudis can make an awful lot more money from the reserves they have left.

      My concern is their increasingly belligerent attitude towards anyone they feel might oppose them (mostly Shia muslims) and how the US feel the need to blindly back them come what may.

      If history has taught us anything, it is that the CIA always makes things worse in the Middle East. I have no idea what the chances are of some sort of coup in Qatar, but if the Saudis decided they want one, would the CIA help? Probably.

      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:15AM (4 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:15AM (#769346) Journal

        the CIA always makes things worse in the Middle East.

        Worse compared to what? Was it better off under the Ottomans or the Romans?

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:22AM (3 children)

          by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:22AM (#769349)

          Yes to both.

          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:30AM (2 children)

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:30AM (#769352) Journal

            :-) You were there, eh?

            --
            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
            • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday December 04 2018, @01:58AM (1 child)

              by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @01:58AM (#769388)

              Oh. We're doing that are we?

              • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 04 2018, @02:59AM

                by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @02:59AM (#769414) Journal

                Um, what? comparing the present to the past? Or maybe the CIA, to say, the KGB (or whatever they call themselves now)? The middle east has to pick its poison, doesn't it? It's a giant prison yard. Business is business. 95% of the voters are ok with it. What am I supposed to say?

                --
                La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @05:04AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @05:04AM (#769444)

        Oil is on it's way out of course, because we're not making any new oil

        Oh, so you know exactly how oil is made in the Earth? Care to share with everyone?

        • (Score: 5, Touché) by Mykl on Tuesday December 04 2018, @06:11AM

          by Mykl (1112) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @06:11AM (#769449)

          Don't worry - it can't take that long to form. After all, the earth is only 6,000 years old, right?

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by AnonTechie on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:43PM

        by AnonTechie (2275) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:43PM (#769518) Journal

        If history has taught us anything, it is that the CIA always makes things worse in the Middle East

        CIA makes things worse wherever they operate, not just in the Middle-East ...

        --
        Albert Einstein - "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:33AM (4 children)

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:33AM (#769355) Journal

      I think even Saudi Arabia knows oil is on its way out, though.

      Well, there's always murder and extortion

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @01:34AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @01:34AM (#769377)

        Well, there's always murder and extortion

        Yeah, but you can't build a cartel on something that everyone does.

        • (Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Tuesday December 04 2018, @03:43AM (2 children)

          by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <axehandleNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday December 04 2018, @03:43AM (#769426)

          Yeah, but you can't build a cartel on something that everyone does [murder and extortion].

          You can if you organise it and run it like a business...

          --
          It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
          • (Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Tuesday December 04 2018, @09:06PM

            by gawdonblue (412) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @09:06PM (#769750)

            If there's going to be crime at least it should be organised.

          • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday December 06 2018, @05:31PM

            by Gaaark (41) on Thursday December 06 2018, @05:31PM (#770738) Journal

            Yeah, but it's hard to compete against the Chinese and Americans (who have outsourced it to the Chinese).

            --
            --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:41AM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:41AM (#769357)

      The petrodollar is done but petroleum, fossil fuels and equivalents [nationalgeographic.com] are not. The US being the reserve currency has prevented devaluation to escape debt -- when the US devalues, every other currency maintains parity. Trump (and Wilbur Ross) understand all this while in Europe Macron does not. [ahtribune.com]

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @02:04AM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @02:04AM (#769391)

        By devaluation do you mean inflation? That has always been the game, borrow like mad because inflation erases it eventually. Still, I don't see how trading oil in a different currency will "crash the dollar "

        • (Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday December 04 2018, @02:26AM (5 children)

          by legont (4179) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @02:26AM (#769402)

          Still, I don't see how trading oil in a different currency will "crash the dollar "

          It probably will not crash dollar by itself, but will be a step toward. Let me explain it in simple terms.

          Since folks everywhere use dollars for trade and reserve, the US has to provide enough dollars for them. The only way to do it is to run trade deficit with the world as a whole.

          If/when dollar loses this status, all the folks will come to the US for their money back. At this point there are only two options: default or hyperinflation.

          Note that Russia already dumped pretty much all dollar denominated assets, presses her clients to pay for oil in other currencies, and actively promotes "dedollarisation" of the local economy.

          --
          "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
          • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Tuesday December 04 2018, @09:17AM (4 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 04 2018, @09:17AM (#769476) Journal

            If/when dollar loses this status, all the folks will come to the US for their money back.

            What is that supposed to mean? Debt in the form of bonds or treasuries, for example, is a contract. No party can hurry that contract along. So, for example, the US can tell bond holders "You're going to get this on the schedule we all agreed to over the next twenty years [or whatever] and you're going to like it."

            And dumping such bonds at fire sale prices will just firm up the dollar a bit. Bottom line is that the dollar isn't going anywhere with most of the parties that have an interest in the dollar, because they've already lent way too much.

            Since folks everywhere use dollars for trade and reserve, the US has to provide enough dollars for them. The only way to do it is to run trade deficit with the world as a whole.

            Not true. The US government can also merely provide dollars in exchange for other currencies.

            • (Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday December 05 2018, @02:33AM (3 children)

              by legont (4179) on Wednesday December 05 2018, @02:33AM (#769916)

              And dumping such bonds at fire sale prices will just firm up the dollar a bit.

              Yes, they are not likely to dump the US debt. They still could, but what will likely happen is that they will stop buying new debt. The US will have difficulties with rolling over the debt, which will push the rates up, which will increase the need for the US to roll over more debt, which will make it even less attractive for buyers and so on. Chain reaction.

              The US government can also merely provide dollars in exchange for other currencies.

              First, the US government would have to earn those dollars somehow, but it's a mute point anyway because what exactly the US government can do with foreign currency? Buy foreign goods which it more trade deficit again. Granted, a responsible government might keep them in reserve by buying foreign, say Chinese bonds. Realistically, do you see it happen? A program to say cut social security payments and use the proceeds to buy china debt?

              Finally, the exact nature of the crisis is always not what was predicted. Otherwise, it would be easy to prevent.

              --
              "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 05 2018, @03:17AM (2 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 05 2018, @03:17AM (#769934) Journal

                Finally, the exact nature of the crisis is always not what was predicted. Otherwise, it would be easy to prevent.

                Controlling inflation, control US/state governments spending, and having a strong economy would cover most such crises. Of course, I think the implied axiom to all this speculation is that the US doesn't do that, which unfortunately is not a bad assumption to make.

                • (Score: 2) by legont on Thursday December 06 2018, @01:25AM (1 child)

                  by legont (4179) on Thursday December 06 2018, @01:25AM (#770399)

                  I personally think that from this list we are beyond repair on all but one - what you called strong economy. Simply stating we need grows. It is the only way out of this debt hole. This grows has to be very fast - way faster than even the most optimistic economists predict. Controlling inflation and spending is almost always anti-growth.

                  --
                  "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 06 2018, @02:30AM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 06 2018, @02:30AM (#770435) Journal

                    Controlling inflation and spending is almost always anti-growth.

                    What grows with inflation and government spending? Interest rates do. Inflation does nothing for an economy nor for a government that is borrowing heavily just to keep up. At best, it's just a shuffling of wealth from savings to borrowers.

                    And government spending only does something for the economy, if it creates something of value. For example, the US federal government has about 50% dumped in entitlements which do little to grow the economy and another 20% dumped into an extremely inefficient defense apparatus. The remaining 30% isn't spent well either. So not seeing the growth from that.

                    Let's keep in mind that not spending means more wealth for private growers of the economy.

  • (Score: 5, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Monday December 03 2018, @11:44PM (2 children)

    by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Monday December 03 2018, @11:44PM (#769338) Homepage Journal

    During my trip to the Middle East last Year I stated that there can no longer be funding of Radical Ideology. Leaders pointed to Qatar -- look!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @07:23PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @07:23PM (#769711)

      I suppose funding Radical Idiocy instead is much cheaper?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 06 2018, @04:56PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 06 2018, @04:56PM (#770723)

      One that I think most people will miss the simplicity and ironic implications of. The only joke I think that could be funnier is if you are actually Donald Trump Jr, who despite negative opinions of him in the media is actually a faceless and witty jester masquerading in plain sight under a nick too close to home with no one being the wiser.

  • (Score: 2) by Snotnose on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:14AM (4 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:14AM (#769345)

    All the other OPEC nations, led by Saudi Arabia, have been shunning them for years at best, trying to provoke a war failing that. To be honest, I don't keep track of the middle east "your great^4 grandfather killed my great^3 grandfather, so I gotta kill you" politics. But it's been clear for years Qatar was on the outs.

    --
    Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:27AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:27AM (#769351)

      To be honest, I don't keep track of the middle east "your great^4 grandfather killed my great^3 grandfather, so I gotta kill you" politics.

      Europe has the same problem. Only American occupation keeps that shit subdued. It will take the same thing to keep everyone honest in the middle east. When you have the muscle, you are derelict if you don't use it and put your foot down and tell everybody to shut, the, fuck, up! The ends justify whatever means it takes. Too many people on the planet anyway. Time for a little pruning of the deadwood.

      • (Score: 3, Touché) by SpockLogic on Tuesday December 04 2018, @01:14AM (1 child)

        by SpockLogic (2762) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @01:14AM (#769366)

        Too many people on the planet anyway. Time for a little pruning of the deadwood.

        Oooo ... let's start with the deplorables.

        --
        Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:55PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 04 2018, @12:55PM (#769519)

          Please start, we'll see how that works out for your candy ass.

      • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday December 04 2018, @01:17AM

        by bzipitidoo (4388) on Tuesday December 04 2018, @01:17AM (#769369) Journal

        > Time for a little pruning of the deadwood.

        Are you volunteering to be pruned?

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