The medical cannabis advocates suing the state after Monday's passage of a Proposition 2 replacement bill are seeking to overturn that law, yes — but they also want to contest what they see as government overreach in muting the voice of the people in an election.
In the lawsuit, filed Wednesday in 3rd District Court by former Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson, the heads of the Epilepsy Association of Utah (EAU) and Together for Responsible Use and Cannabis Education (TRUCE) accuse the Legislature of abridging the rights of voters in an effort to appease The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And they argue that the Utah Medical Cannabis Act violates the state constitution's provision for ballot initiatives by sweeping aside the plan approved by a majority of voters.
"For three years, we advocated on the Hill," said Christine Stenquist, president of TRUCE. "For two years, we've been in a campaign for the proposition. And when I saw it undermined so quickly on the first business day, I started to wonder: Is the initiative process in Utah just a suggestion box? Are our votes really meaning anything in this political process? How long do we just have to let politics happen to us?"
The state constitution vests legislative power equally in the Legislature and "the people of the State of Utah." Some of the architects of the Proposition 2 replacement law, however, say the lawsuit stands on shaky legal ground.
Previously: Mormon Church, Politicians, and Advocates Back Medical Cannabis Compromise in Utah
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The Mormon Church and Governor Gary Herbert have come out in favor of medical cannabis legalization in Utah. However, the legislative compromise would be more restrictive for Utahans than a November 2018 ballot initiative:
The Mormon church joined lawmakers, the governor and advocates to back a deal on Thursday that would legalize medical marijuana in conservative Utah after months of fierce debate. The compromise comes as people prepare to vote in November on an insurgent medical marijuana ballot initiative that held its ground despite opposition from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
[...] The Utah-based faith had opposed the ballot proposal over fears it could lead to more broad use, but its ranking global leader, Jack Gerard, said leaders were "thrilled" to be a part of the effort to "alleviate human pain and suffering".
Though it still must go to a vote, the deal has the key backing of both the church and leaders of the Republican-dominated state legislature, who said the regulations in the hard-won agreement had their seal of approval. Unlike the ballot initiative, the compromise won't allow people to grow their own marijuana if they live too far from a dispensary. It also doesn't allow certain types of edible marijuana that could appeal to children, like cookies and brownies.
Some medical cannabis advocates are not on board with the deal:
Medical marijuana advocates are backing the deal to avoid wrangling and uncertainty that could continue if the ballot initiative passes. "There will be medical cannabis here in our day in Utah," said the advocate DJ Schanz. The two sides agreed to scale back media campaigns supporting and opposing the ballot measure known as Proposition 2.
Not all medical marijuana advocates were convinced: Christine Stenquist with the group Truce said she remained skeptical about the deal and urged continued support for the ballot proposal. Smoking marijuana would not be allowed under the ballot proposal. It instead allows edible forms, lotions or electronic cigarettes.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 07 2018, @11:09PM (20 children)
I support this lawsuit. The so called compromise means that a Dr cannot simply give their patient a prescription and be done with it.
The patient must also appear in front of a so called "compasionate review board" to plead for the right to treat their pain with something other than dangerous opiates.
Sure their doctor can prescribe them opiates all he wants, but to give them a plant, well that takes a compassionate review board staffed with the same people who rejected the original proposition.
How many cases can a review board really hear in a year? And if it's anything like some of the other boards in Utah, they will have late start days, long lunches and "early out days", making it impossible to even get in line with years worth of backlog.
The state has no business intervening in the medical decisions between a doctor and a patient unless they are going to review every dangerous script.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 07 2018, @11:23PM (18 children)
That's what you get if you vote for socialized medicine, the state has an excuse to put every aspect of your life under a microscope. Unless my mind messed up my memory, half the people in the US are all about the state intervening between doctor and patient.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 07 2018, @11:27PM
The state would intervene regardless of whether or not they were paying for the medical care. That's just what authoritarian governments do.
(Score: 5, Informative) by NewNic on Friday December 07 2018, @11:36PM (8 children)
You haven't actually lived in a country with socialized medicine. All you know is what you have been fed by right-wing media outlets.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 07 2018, @11:44PM (7 children)
I worked at a VA and had full access to it. So, yes I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @12:32AM
Not every socialized medicine country acts with the same lack of discretion.
(Score: 5, Informative) by edIII on Saturday December 08 2018, @12:36AM (5 children)
That's not socialized medicine. It's a goddamn travesty, but it ain't socialized medicine. It is the go-to reason to rail against socialized medicine in the US, because the opposition always points to the VA and says, "This is what it looks like when government takes control".
Bullshit. It doesn't have to be that way, and the VA is a special case for the complete disregard of our veteran's health care. That's not medicine, but fucking torture for every soldier that has to put up with the shit. Socialized medicine, unlike the VA, cannot direct you take these shots under orders.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @01:16AM (4 children)
Good argument. Very persuasive.
I've lived under socialised medicine. And yes, the government did use it as an excuse to be intrusive, and to make limited-formulary decisions based on expedience, cost and moral decisions.
I was lucky and didn't suffer personal damage as a result. Family members weren't so lucky.
Socialised medicine is at its best when it's kept honest by the provision of unsocialised medicine, but even then it tends to be intrusive and obnoxious.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by NewNic on Saturday December 08 2018, @01:25AM (1 child)
There is a huge difference between a limited formulary and the government intruding into your individual healthcare.
My family's experience of socialized medicine is that it is better than the privatized scheme that exists in the USA.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @05:12PM
US healthcare is just a scam held in place by the government. A few years ago the scammers (insurance companies) even got the government to pass a law to force people to pay them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @01:47PM (1 child)
You have a shitty goverment and you blame it on socialized health care. And then you wonder why you still have a shitty government. Well done, with such deductive capabilities of their constituents no wonder lying is such an attractive way to "solve" problems for politicians!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @04:04PM
Seems as if the good news behind this observation is that americans have a shitty government (we can all agree on that, right?) but haven't entirely turned healthcare over to it, just yet.
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Saturday December 08 2018, @12:07AM (4 children)
Funny, marijuana has been illegal for more than fifty years. I guess we've had socialized medicine all along.
I'm against authoritarianism. Socialism doesn't have to be authoritarian.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @12:15AM (3 children)
Yes, they were introduced together:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States) [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_U.S._jurisdiction [wikipedia.org]
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @12:56AM (1 child)
wat
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @05:14PM
For the dense: The controlled substances act was in the works at the same time as the introduction of socialized medicine in the US.
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Saturday December 08 2018, @06:10PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history_of_cannabis_in_the_United_States [wikipedia.org] "Increased restrictions and labeling of cannabis as a poison began in many states from 1906 onward, and outright prohibitions began in the 1920s."
(Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Saturday December 08 2018, @12:15AM (2 children)
It has nothing to do with socialized medicine and everything to do with the Controlled Substances Act.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @05:17PM (1 child)
And why do you assume those are independent of each other.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @09:31PM
Because we aren't drooling idiots.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bobthecimmerian on Saturday December 08 2018, @06:16PM
I would take things much further. The Prohibition of alcohol in the US was all the evidence anyone should need that making certain substances illegal does more harm to society and more harm to users and also costs more in taxpayer money than keeping them legal. Legalize them all, and then tax them and use the money to support rehab clinics and other medical care.
And further, one of the biggest reasons we have a flood of immigrants from central and southern America is that their own countries are drug gang war zones. If the US manufactured its own drugs and junkies were paying $100 per week for a heroin prescription under the monitoring of a doctor instead of who knows what every day, the drug kingpins would have no high value product to fund their armies.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday December 07 2018, @11:48PM (3 children)
Utah is poised to be the first state where pot is legal and alcoholic beverages effectively aren't. It will be interesting to compare with other similarish states where booze is legal but pot isn't, and of course with Colorado where both booze and pot are legal.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @12:12AM (2 children)
"There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order."
I hope the jury box succeeds.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @01:16AM (1 child)
Soap: free expression on the internet and electronic privacy are under attack.
Ballot: our votes do not meaningfully affect the policies our governments pursue. this news is only the latest example of that.
Jury: jury nullification has been nullified by the system.
Ammo: keep your eyes on France, GM, and Mexico.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @02:37AM
Is there any organization in the USA handing out FIJA pamphlets at courthouses? What happens if you do?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by NewNic on Saturday December 08 2018, @01:12AM (9 children)
Utah is controlled by Republicans.
Is there any greater example of authoritarianism than going against the wishes of the population as expressed through a ballot measure?
Yet, time and time again, people post here that the authoritarians are on the left.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @01:19AM (5 children)
Unfortunately for your narrative, Utah is controlled by highly atypical republicans that trend heavily to the nanny state idea. They're more republicans because they hate the democrats than because their hero is Reagan. If there's any one state where you could get republicans to nod soberly, rub their chins and agree to state oversight, it's Utah.
Try the same thing in, say, Kentucky and see how that flies.
(Score: 3, Informative) by NewNic on Saturday December 08 2018, @01:22AM (2 children)
"No true Scotsman".
Look it up.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @01:47AM
We all know that it's atypical of Republican politicians to be authoritarian. That's why the vast majority of them support unconstitutional wars, the Unpatriotic Act, the NSA's unconstitutional mass surveillance, the TSA, the drug war, and other authoritarian policies. Just accept it.
But what about Democrats, huh? You said something bad about Republicans, so you therefore must be in favor of the more authoritarian Democrats!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 08 2018, @04:07PM
Oh, right.
Sorry, this just in from NewNic, everybody:
all republicans are identical, everywhere, and goosestep together. Anything that looks like regional variations is a delusion.
Thanks, back to your regularly scheduled evening news WASP and bimbette.
(Score: 2) by dltaylor on Saturday December 08 2018, @01:58AM (1 child)
Republicans have ALWAYS been authoritarians, starting with Lincoln, who used the US Navy to suppress free trade and enslaved free men at gunpoint in the first-ever forced draft to make the Northern industrialists richer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 09 2018, @03:36AM
Washington's army during the revolutionary war engaged in forced conscription (at the point of a musket). And, yeah Washington was just another rich parasite*; the revolutionary war, as war always is, was for the benefit of the rich.
* Washington's wealth was at the expense of a great army of men and women he claimed as his property. He lived off the labor of these slaves-- a parasite.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday December 08 2018, @01:28AM
Republican/Democrat hardly matters. People have to vote for politicians that will uphold their initiatives. Seems only logical. It's no different than bowling, you gotta follow through.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by crafoo on Saturday December 08 2018, @03:49AM (1 child)
No, of course not all on the left. It's just been so surprising to see leftists, self-labelled (inaccurately) liberals take up authoritarianism so quickly and gleefully. Do people naturally fear freedom? Many people seem to fear a free person walking among them. With freedom comes responsibility, and so possibly they believe your typical person is not responsible enough to be free. Therefore, in their mind, a free person represents a real danger. I believe it's a fundamental breakdown of culture; our failure to adequately teach each of the last few generations what it is to be free and how to take up the responsibility required of them as an adult in a free society.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by HiThere on Saturday December 08 2018, @04:11AM
I'm sorry you were surprised. You must not have paid attention in history classes. Authoritarianism is orthogonal to the left-right spectrum. Both sides contains anarchists and both sides contain those that worship power. IIRC the first socialized medicine policy in the modern world was initiated by Count Bismark. A noted authoritarian. (If not the first, he certainly pushed one.) In most policies, however, he was distinctly right-wing. (What do you expect of an aristocrat?)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.