Submitted via IRC for SoyCow1984
Uber allegedly ignored safety warnings before self-driving fatality
Just days after Uber announced its plans to resume testing of its self-driving taxis, new information reveals that a whistleblower had made the company aware of the technology's safety failures before the incident in Arizona last March, which saw a pedestrian struck and killed by one of Uber's vehicles, and which led to the suspension of all testing activity.
According to The Information, Robbie Miller, a manager in the testing-operations group, sent a cautionary email to a number of Uber's executive and lawyers, warning that the vehicles were "routinely in accidents resulting in damage. This is usually the result of poor behavior of the operator or the AV technology."
It appears the email was prompted by an incident in Pittsburgh, where just a few days before Miller sent the message an Uber prototype swerved completely off the road and onto the sidewalk, where it continued to drive. According to Miller's email, the episode was "essentially ignored" for days, until Miller raised it with other managers. He also noted that towards the end of 2017, it took two weeks for engineers to investigate the logs of a separate Arizona incident, in which an Uber vehicle almost collided with another car.
Related Stories
Uber Sells Off Self-Driving and Flying Taxi Units
Uber sells its self-driving unit to Aurora
Uber's self-driving unit, Advanced Technologies Group (ATG), is being acquired by its start-up competitor Aurora Innovation, the companies announced Monday.
The deal, expected to close in the first quarter of 2021, values ATG at approximately $4 billion. The unit was valued at $7.25 billion in Apr. 2019 when Softbank, Denso and Toyota took a stake.
[...] Uber's co-founder and former CEO Travis Kalanick had viewed self-driving as an essential investment, saying in 2016 he believed the world would shift to autonomous vehicles. ATG had been a long-term play for Uber, but the unit brought high costs and safety challenges. Throughout the course of a pandemic-stricken year, Uber has made efforts to stem losses in its ride hailing business, control business costs -- including with major layoffs in the spring -- and to grow its delivery business.
Uber is also reportedly selling its flying taxi division to Joby Aviation, presumably putting an end to its involvement with the U.S. Army.
Uber has been scaling back its driverless car efforts since it caused the death of a pedestrian in 2018. Uber has never had a profitable quarter.
Also at NYT, Ars Technica, TechCrunch, and The Verge.
Previously: The Fall of Uber CEO Travis Kalanick
Uber Pulls Self-Driving Cars After First Fatal Crash of Autonomous Vehicle
Uber Shutting Down Self-Driving Truck Division
Uber Allegedly Ignored Safety Warnings Before Self-Driving Fatality
Will Car Ownership Soon Become "Quaint"?
Uber Freezes Engineering Hires Amid Mounting Losses
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @07:12PM (12 children)
This is how we lost the space shuttles also. They knew the o-rings and tiles were shit.
That's just the way social power structures work. Whaddya gonna do, eh?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @07:31PM (10 children)
What you have to do is regulate the industry. It's pretty simple, the safety of society is the purview of government.
So:
Government, stop shirking your duty
Industry, stop whining about Government
As long as everyone follows the rules it will still be a level playing field (and anyone breaking the rules stands a good chance of getting caught if there is a fatality or two involved).
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Wednesday December 12 2018, @08:00PM (5 children)
I have the following defects with your solution.
1. The government is bribed not to do its duty.
2. Industry doesn't want to stop whining about government.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @08:17PM (4 children)
History lesson: When regulation first came to the auto industry, the "big three" in Detroit did everything in their power to resist being regulated. They fought for at least 20 years (depending on how you count). Then, after years of grudging recalls, Detroit got the message, it's cheaper to own up to your mistakes, work out the safety recall and then get on with business. The alternative of years of courts and lawyers wasn't really cost effective, and when details came out it was also bad public relations. Through (approximately) the 1990s and maybe a little longer, there was grudging respect between Detroit and D.C. and safety regulation actually worked quite well.
Then, the next generation came in (probably on both sides) and it was right back to a contentious relationship.
My take: Regulate and keep on regulating, eventually people will come around.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by legont on Thursday December 13 2018, @02:52AM
Regulations are actually helping companies; it just takes time for them to realize. The main reason (there are others) is that without regulations it is always run to the bottom - one has to make cheaper things than the others and cutting corners is the easiest way. Eventually the industry falls. Regulations prevent this by setting a common bottom.
It's true for everything made by humans and all the exceptions are temporary.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 13 2018, @03:38AM (2 children)
So, when did "regulation first came to the auto industry,"? You realize that looking back in time, there wasn't a "big three"? It had to be mid-fifties before it was "big three". Jeep, AMC, Rambler, DeSoto, and so many more have gone belly up and/or been bought out. I suppose we can point to some arbitrary regulation, and say, "This is the point at which regulation first came to the auto industry!" At what point in time was that? 1980, maybe?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:38PM (1 child)
> So, when did "regulation first came to the auto industry,"?
A case could be made for the creation of the US DOT and NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Admin.),
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highway_Traffic_Safety_Administration#History [wikipedia.org]
Same link mentions an earlier start in Europe on harmonizing auto regulations worldwide.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @08:30PM
Same AC, responding to myself. The more I thought about this history, this could also be the origins of what I think of as a "nanny mentality" -- the mindset that it is possible to eliminate all risk and make things completely safe. Given the car-centered culture in the USA (possibly even more so in the 1960s than today), this first step of establishing a national Dept of Transportation and the regulatory arm, NHTSA could have been the first step onto the slippery slope?
Was this the step that led to helicopter parents, kids that aren't allowed to walk home from school and the rest of the "softening of America?"
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:06PM (2 children)
Government, stop shirking your duty
Tell it to the voters. Oversight is their obligation. They are the only ones that can put the dog out when it craps on the carpet.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2, Interesting) by nitehawk214 on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:50PM (1 child)
Which is exactly why the government keeps the voters in the dark about everything it can. Whistleblowers are the only way we get any information.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday December 13 2018, @12:13AM
Whistleblowers are the only way we get any information.
The more the merrier. It's up to the voters to take the initiative to get at the truth. They shouldn't expect it to be spoon fed, unless they vote for an FOIA with teeth.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Immerman on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:18PM
Or alternately, remove the corporate veil of immunity. Throw executives in prison. Claw back bonuses and salary. Penalize stock-holders for the crimes of their company.
Basically, give the people with power some incentive to be responsible, instead of having incentive structures designed to profit them when they cut corners, and protect them from any consequences of the inevitable problems they create.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by takyon on Wednesday December 12 2018, @07:42PM
Uber's entire "success" story has been based on bending and breaking the rules. Why would their approach to driverless be any different?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Funny) by SomeGuy on Wednesday December 12 2018, @07:14PM (6 children)
System indiscriminately starts going "kill all humans". See attached logs.
---
Confirmed, but higher ups at corporate say this will cost too much money to fix. Marking as WONTFIX.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @08:04PM (5 children)
Found logs attached to car bumper. Decided it was safest not to review.
CLOSED: could not reproduce.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Wednesday December 12 2018, @08:55PM (4 children)
Feature request: bumper wipers with high pressure washers.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 3, Funny) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:11PM (3 children)
Wipers and washers priced. Cost deemed too high.
Engineering counters with offer of thick red/brown metal bumpers
Marketing proposes Insta-Swap Bumpers! Now Availble In Many Colors To Suit Daily Moods!!
Legal is still pricing whether injuries are cheaper than kills, and whether attempting to reduce injuries is admission of anything.
Management is planning an extended executive retreat in Bali to discuss the matter.
(Score: 3, Funny) by MostCynical on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:22PM (1 child)
New option at point of sale: discount bumperswap (tm).
Free, if you return the bumper with body parts attached.
(Note: not all colours will be available at all dealerships, please phone ahead)
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday December 13 2018, @01:12AM
Free, if you return the bumper with body parts attached.
Would that be the fender, or the femur?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Thursday December 13 2018, @08:23AM
Maybe they should rewatch those old episodes of the Little Rascals. If I recall, they have all sorts of devices on their vehicles to clear pedestrians out of the way. Bumpers that swung out, boxing gloves that popped out, et.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @08:07PM (5 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @08:19PM
No surprise, what you are really saying is that Stanford has better AI programmers than Carnegie-Mellon...
Google raided Stanford and Uber raided C-M.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Wednesday December 12 2018, @08:38PM (3 children)
Before going on public streets, their car should run a test course where the obstacles are replaced by members of Uber's board and executive management. If they don't believe in their technology enough to stake their lives on it, why should I allow them to stake MY life on it?
(Score: 2) by Fluffeh on Thursday December 13 2018, @12:30AM (1 child)
Why do you think you actually get a say in this? You vote in someone who says they will do what you want them to do... right up until the point they don't. Then if they think you will buy it, they tell you they will next time - or if they don't think you will stomach that, they'll say that they had to vote that way, but look, we agree on many other things. The problem is, the next guy on the ticket does exactly the same thing.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday December 13 2018, @01:26AM
They're my rocks, I'll throw them where I want to.
(Score: 2) by legont on Thursday December 13 2018, @02:55AM
Unfortunately, the main driver of western dominance was and still is *limited liability*, which is, in a nutshell, an ability to make new things without too much consequences.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Wednesday December 12 2018, @08:44PM
Just a day or two after Lyft did so.
These are so far are anonymous leaks as the forms they each filed with the SEC are kinda sorta confidentially used to start the process.
While most regard the stock market as perfectly calculating each stock's value because "everyone has complete information" I assert that is not even remotely true because there is far too much relevant information, much if not most of which the financial community does not follow.
I've been convinced since 2013 I can predict the movements of a certain industry by watching an important leading indicator that is followed only by the kinds of people who don't invest.
That I haven't acted on my claim is only due to my being perpetually busted. The only time I had many Samoleons to burn I burned it all on crypto and a $2,050 LiteCoin Mining Rig that now sells for $52.
As I am wont to say: I Am Absolutely Serious.
You sorry lot just received free subscriptions to my very own investment newsletter:
When Uber IPOs sell short as most who will buy it right then are the "thank goodness for the stupid people!" as a certain certified investor was wont to say.
When Lyft IPOs these stupid people will have never heard of it as only Uber makes the press. You'll know what to do.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:56PM (14 children)
One of those Uber death machines was driving on a sidewalk? I walk along the pothole-strewn road they drive on most often (River Ave), there is a paved trail that runs parallel that could easily be mistaken for a road if a car managed to get on to it.
Now that it is dark when I leave work, it is harder to see which cars are Ubers and apparently impossible for them to see me. Though you can usually tell a self-driving car from a distance, they are the only ones that respect the speed limit on River Ave.
(Score: 3, Funny) by MostCynical on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:24PM (3 children)
Differences between self-driving Uber and normal Uber:
Self driving cars are doing the speed limit, using indicators, and have functioning brake lights.
Normal Uber slightly less likely to be on sidewalk.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @12:55AM (2 children)
You forgot, self-driving Uber has a safety driver who is filling out paperwork on a tablet computer.
(Score: 2) by The Archon V2.0 on Thursday December 13 2018, @04:05PM (1 child)
> paperwork
I didn't realize they'd renamed Bejeweled.
(Score: 3, Funny) by bob_super on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:17PM
It's like the local dive bar named The Office or My Desk.
Or that folder on your computer named "Totally Boring Work Stuff, Really"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @12:53AM (9 children)
If you don't already have one, the blinky LED lights that clip to your outer clothes go a long way toward making a pedestrian visible at night. Available online from bicycling suppliers and probably many other sources.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @01:18AM
Oh yeah! That would be like, totally fly!
Make you a target in Detroit...
(Score: 2) by legont on Thursday December 13 2018, @03:00AM (7 children)
Blinking lights, for bicyclists at least, are illegal in many European countries. http://bikeshed.johnhoogstrate.nl/bicycle/light/blinking/ [johnhoogstrate.nl]
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by lentilla on Thursday December 13 2018, @03:43AM (6 children)
Now, that is an interesting article. Personally, I love my blinking bicycle lights. For starters, they use less power, which means I don't have to be constantly charging them or changing batteries. By flashing; they stand out from the rest of the visual noise.
Like the article mentions; a blinking light makes it harder for other road users to judge distance; and as far as I am concerned... this is a brilliant thing. Instead of turning in front of you (or into you) a motorist will pause and wait for you to pass first - this avoids the need to emergency brake, or worse - in the cyclist T-boning the car or vice-versa. People see a bicycle and think "slow" but fail to comprehend just how fast they often travel.
So despite that article's findings, I think I will keep using my flashing lights. Red on the rear, and white on the front. I even run the front light during some daytime excursions because it really does cut down on the frequency of unpleasant situations. (And blinking lights aren't illegal where I live.)
(Score: 2) by legont on Thursday December 13 2018, @04:24AM (5 children)
Let me give you a different example. In the US drivers are taught to blink their tail lights to warn cars behind or perhaps to complain about tailgating. At least I was by an actual police officer who was off duty teacher of motorcycle riding. Before that I thought that locals brake too much while they in fact did not brake at all. The result is exactly the opposite from intended as I learned to completely ignore brake lights. I simply continue going the same way and speed I was before and make my decisions based on actual car speed which is way more difficult. I actually caught myself that I can't tell sometimes if a car in front of me has lights working. I literally don't see them.
What does it do to safety...
Back to blinking lights, motorists will learn that bicyclists are always way too far to be dangerous and will learn to ignore the lights be they blinking or not. This is a perfect example of regulations being necessary even though they are making your immediate life more dangerous. Unfortunately, one has to be sacrificed sometimes for the common good.
Having said that I do what you do. In fact a friend of mine got a light so powerful that it would be illegal on a car and I am considering it as well.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by martyb on Thursday December 13 2018, @12:27PM (1 child)
=)
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:47PM
Pro tip -- many windshield squirt nozzles are little ball-in-socket assemblies. With a paper clip wire stuck in the hole, you can re-aim them. If you are constantly bothered by tailgaters, aim the squirt on your passenger side to squirt right over your roof...
(Score: 2) by Oakenshield on Thursday December 13 2018, @04:54PM
Interesting. Blinking lights seem to be more common around here for rear bicycle lights and I personally feel they are much better for me to register as a bicycle on the road at night. Steady red (bicycle) lights never appear very bright and seem to blend in with the large number of red lights that show up everywhere at night. When I see a blinking red light I immediately slow down and start watching for a bicycle. I never ever trust any bicyclist at night not to do something stupid and I make sure I am very aware of where they are at all times. I have run up on dim steady red lights at night and not realized there was a bike there until the last second. In fact, the clue more often in those cases is the reflectors on the bike pedals moving that catch my eye first.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:22PM (1 child)
The US needs to learn what works and mandate orange (heck, yellow, since we have LEDs) turn/warning lights.
The ambiguity of red for tail lights, and brake lights, and turn signals (even when they all work, and are used) has caused me enough aggravation, that I'm pretty sure it's cost quite a few lives.
(Score: 2) by legont on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:42PM
The whole light color system needs improvement simply because 10% of men have issues seeing red/green. They are not color blind, mind you, but have different color perception while the system is built for the most common vision case. I am sure adjusting brightness for example will make it more visible for most, including minority, perhaps at the expense of being less pleasant for the current majority. Hollywood does this successfully with vivid colors. And while at it, Hollywood also plays with sound making background unnaturally quieter when conversation is going on, which helps partially deaf people. They did their homework.
Anyway, these little details are not that little and they also make professional presentations well better than amateurish stuff on internet.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.