Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by Fnord666 on Thursday December 27 2018, @09:59PM   Printer-friendly
from the man-with-two-brains dept.

Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

In a step that could change the definition of death, researchers have restored circulation to the brains of decapitated pigs and kept the reanimated organs alive for as long as 36 hours.

The feat offers scientists a new way to study intact brains in the lab in stunning detail. But it also inaugurates a bizarre new possibility in life extension, should human brains ever be kept on life support outside the body.

The work was described on March 28 at a meeting held at the National Institutes of Health to investigate ethical issues arising as US neuroscience centers explore the limits of brain science.

During the event, Yale University neuroscientist Nenad Sestan disclosed that a team he leads had experimented on between 100 and 200 pig brains obtained from a slaughterhouse, restoring their circulation using a system of pumps, heaters, and bags of artificial blood warmed to body temperature.

There was no evidence that the disembodied pig brains regained consciousness. However, in what Sestan termed a "mind-boggling" and "unexpected" result, billions of individual cells in the brains were found to be healthy and capable of normal activity.

[...] Today in the journal Nature, 17 neuroscientists and bioethicists, including Sestan, published an editorial arguing that experiments on human brain tissue may require special protections and rules.

They identified three categories of "brain surrogates" that provoke new concerns. These include brain organoids (blobs of nerve tissue the size of a rice grain), human-animal chimeras (mice with human brain tissue added), and ex vivo human brain tissue (such as chunks of brain removed during surgery).

They went on to suggest a variety of ethical safety measures, such as drugging animals that possess human brain cells so they stay in a "comatose-like brain state."


Original Submission

Related Stories

Scientists Restore Some Functions in a Pig's Brain Hours After Death 22 comments

Scientists Restore Some Functions in a Pig's Brain Hours after Death:

Circulation and cellular activity were restored in a pig's brain four hours after its death, a finding that challenges long-held assumptions about the timing and irreversible nature of the cessation of some brain functions after death, Yale scientists report April 17 in the journal Nature.

The brain of a postmortem pig obtained from a meatpacking plant was isolated and circulated with a specially designed chemical solution. Many basic cellular functions, once thought to cease seconds or minutes after oxygen and blood flow cease, were observed, the scientists report.

"The intact brain of a large mammal retains a previously underappreciated capacity for restoration of circulation and certain molecular and cellular activities multiple hours after circulatory arrest," said senior author Nenad Sestan, professor of neuroscience, comparative medicine, genetics, and psychiatry.

However, researchers also stressed that the treated brain lacked any recognizable global electrical signals associated with normal brain function.

"At no point did we observe the kind of organized electrical activity associated with perception, awareness, or consciousness," said co-first author Zvonimir Vrselja, associate research scientist in neuroscience. "Clinically defined, this is not a living brain, but it is a cellularly active brain."

[...] researchers in Sestan's lab, whose research focuses on brain development and evolution, observed that the small tissue samples they worked with routinely showed signs of cellular viability, even when the tissue was harvested multiple hours postmortem. Intrigued, they obtained the brains of pigs processed for food production to study how widespread this postmortem viability might be in the intact brain. Four hours after the pig's death, they connected the vasculature of the brain to circulate a uniquely formulated solution they developed to preserve brain tissue, utilizing a system they call BrainEx. They found neural cell integrity was preserved, and certain neuronal, glial, and vascular cell functionality was restored.

Journal Reference:
Vrselja, Z. et al. Restoration of brain circulation and cellular functions hours post-mortem. Nature, 2019 DOI: 10.1038/s41586-019-1099-1

Also at The New York Times, National Geographic, and NPR.

The article in The New York Times explores some of the medical ethics of this experimentation and what it may hold down the line. Consider, for example, current policies and practices concerning organ donations from "dead" people.

Previously: Researchers are Keeping Pig Brains Alive Outside the Body


Original Submission

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by looorg on Thursday December 27 2018, @10:17PM (3 children)

    by looorg (578) on Thursday December 27 2018, @10:17PM (#779134)

    During the event, Yale University neuroscientist Nenad Sestan disclosed that a team he leads had experimented on between 100 and 200 pig brains obtained from a slaughterhouse, restoring their circulation using a system of pumps, heaters, and bags of artificial blood warmed to body temperature.

    So they are not really alive then, they are dead but they are preventing decay? There does seem to be some damage tho from the whole slaughterhouse procedure and that it might be some time passing between the slaughterhouse and the laboratory at Yale. I guess this is how Disney will keep extending copyright on their cartoons, their creators will never be allowed to die -- their brains will be kept "alive" at Disneyland for eternity.

    That said it seems that Futurama is coming with each passing breakthrough, next stop the Head museum.

    https://theinfosphere.org/Head_Museum [theinfosphere.org]

    Leonard Nimoy's head: Welcome to the Head Museum, I'm Leonard Nimoy.
    Fry: Spock?! H-hey, do the thing!
    Leonard Nimoy's head: [laughs] I don't do that anymore.

    • (Score: 2) by Murdoc on Saturday December 29 2018, @12:29AM (1 child)

      by Murdoc (2518) on Saturday December 29 2018, @12:29AM (#779531) Homepage

      So they are not really alive then, they are dead but they are preventing decay?

      FTFS:

      However, in what Sestan termed a "mind-boggling" and "unexpected" result, billions of individual cells in the brains were found to be healthy and capable of normal activity.

      • (Score: 2) by looorg on Saturday December 29 2018, @03:19AM

        by looorg (578) on Saturday December 29 2018, @03:19AM (#779578)

        Yes I did read that line to. Still considering that the brain is supposed to have ~180 billion cells, give or take a billion or a few, finding a billion cells or so that are still "working" after the induced massive trauma might not be what I would consider to be "alive", healthy and functional. As previously noted, something that goes to the slaughterhouse and gets decapitated and then prepared to become a science experiment in a brain-jar have sort of left the definition of what would constitute being "alive", at least as far as I'm concerned. But sure if you want to call that being alive then fine, I just wonder how many new things just got elevated to "alive" status now then if that is the new definition of being alive.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30 2018, @04:46PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30 2018, @04:46PM (#779990)

      Leonard Nimoy's head: It's a life of quiet dignity.
      Museum Worker: It's feeding time!

  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @10:30PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @10:30PM (#779139)

    Brain outside of body ?

    Check.

    ~

    Pig = cop ?

    Check !

    ... I'll be here all week. Try the ravioli, it's to die for !

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @10:47PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @10:47PM (#779147)

      "Try the ravioli, it's to die for !"

      Ravioli?!? Surely you meant pork roast.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:58AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:58AM (#779245)

      "We put one cop brain in a jar,
      Why can't we put them all there?"

    • (Score: 2) by Kell on Friday December 28 2018, @08:28AM

      by Kell (292) on Friday December 28 2018, @08:28AM (#779285)

      I'd buy that for a dollar!

      --
      Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:02PM (5 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:02PM (#779154) Journal

    Once this is mastered, there is no hope that the Clintons, or Obama, or Bush, OR Trump will ever die. Most of the rest of us will have to wait for the same techniques to be developed for humans.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:06PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:06PM (#779156)

      Might as wrll freeze humanity at the peak of perfection.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:36PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:36PM (#779163)

        Chelsea Clinton?

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:40PM (2 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:40PM (#779164) Journal

          The piglet doesn't fall far from the sow.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:17AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:17AM (#779253)

            Son of Runaway, Head of pig, Some bacon, SoylentNews

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:58PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:58PM (#779399)

              i'm sorry but I got a little ill thinking of the 'peak of perfection' being chelsea.

              i dont know what she is doing as a grown up, but i was sort of glad they hid her as a kid. Pippa Middleton, she is not.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:07PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:07PM (#779157)

    Can they put the brain back?

    When they can do that, I will finally be able to get you some programmers who have regular menstruation. Now, as everybody knows, we're not going to be able to do a 1:1 swap between trans guys and gals, since there's 3 trans gals for every guy. So, we will need some lucky TERFs to provide the remainder of the womb-equipped bodies. The way I see it, it's win-win-win!

  • (Score: 2) by Hartree on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:12PM

    by Hartree (195) on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:12PM (#779160)

    "And you can be the first ones on your block
      To have your boy's zombie head in a box!"

    Interesting, but I hope they get the neural interface technology working better, or it's gonna be a very frustrating existence.

  • (Score: 1) by anubi on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:23PM (5 children)

    by anubi (2828) on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:23PM (#779161) Journal

    If there is no body, can the brain be in agony?

    --
    "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:36PM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:36PM (#779162) Journal

      "I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream"

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:41PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:41PM (#779166)

      Just imagine a quadriplegic Helen Keller. No pain. The brain might be in a comatose state too.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:42PM (2 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:42PM (#779167) Journal

      Ghost pains. You lose a foot, or a leg, an arm, it might "hurt" forever. No reason the brain wouldn't "feel" pain in the whole body.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by looorg on Friday December 28 2018, @02:11AM (1 child)

        by looorg (578) on Friday December 28 2018, @02:11AM (#779197)

        But where would it get sensory input from? It's not connected to anything. No nerves, no spine, no skin. If it has ghost pains can't they just be numbed with drugs. After all it's a brain in a jar with warm liquids being pumped around it.

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by Immerman on Friday December 28 2018, @03:30AM

          by Immerman (3985) on Friday December 28 2018, @03:30AM (#779220)

          Some painkillers *may* relieve ghost pain - but there are no guarantees. After all, you're talking about the brain imagining an expected pain signal into existence when it's not actually getting any input. As such, I expect that even though most painkillers work directly on the brain, the brain is perfectly capable of imagining sufficient pain to overwhelm the numbing effect of the drugs to experience the expected amount of pain.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:52PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 27 2018, @11:52PM (#779169)

    "enquiring brains in jars want to escape."

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @01:03AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @01:03AM (#779179)

    Here comes World War VI.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Snotnose on Friday December 28 2018, @01:13AM (16 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Friday December 28 2018, @01:13AM (#779181)

    Imagine. You get killed, then you have no sight, sound, feeling, nothing. Yet you are alive. You probably feel pain, be it phantom or real . You stay that way for you have no idea how long, in the real world 2-3 weeks. Oh, the "researchers" say you aren't conscious? Tell that to the hospital workers taking care of comatose patients who say "they know you're here", "they can hear you", etc etc.

    This sounds like the horror movie to finally displace the original Alien.

    --
    Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
    • (Score: 3, Disagree) by takyon on Friday December 28 2018, @01:32AM (10 children)

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday December 28 2018, @01:32AM (#779186) Journal

      A lot of cruelty has been inflicted on animals. Torture, killing for sport, livestock raised in cramped conditions and slaughtered for meat. But inflicting pain on animals for medical research is the most noble pursuit of them all. Let them do it to a million pigs if they want.

      As for the specifics of your comment:

      "You get killed" = highly debatable, which is kinda the point of this research.

      "You probably [don't] feel pain, be it phantom or real" = FTFY. Prove me wrong.

      "in the real world 2-3 weeks" = 36 hours. I'll give you a pass since they should be able to increase it.

      "researchers" = nice scare quotes, "buddy".

      "Tell that to the hospital workers taking care of comatose patients..." = a mixed bag of alluded-to anecdotes. Not all comas are equivalent.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @02:43AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @02:43AM (#779205)

        Felines were the subject of choice for some time due to the similarities they share with humans

        • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Friday December 28 2018, @05:32PM (1 child)

          by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 28 2018, @05:32PM (#779391) Homepage Journal

          I think it's due to the similarities cats have with each other. Their brain maps were extremely similar.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30 2018, @04:33PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30 2018, @04:33PM (#779983)

            All narcissistic/sociopathic brains look the same? :)

      • (Score: 2) by canopic jug on Friday December 28 2018, @07:35AM

        by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 28 2018, @07:35AM (#779280) Journal

        a mixed bag of alluded-to anecdotes. Not all comas are equivalent.

        Some are gone. Some are just trapped. It is mainly the nurses and various assistants who spend enough time to have an educated guess about which patients are in which group. Every once in a while some patient recovers and can recall everything [syracuse.com]. Some bring themselves out.

        Others need a nudge or the right cue. One anecdote in a ham operators' magazine was about a teenager who hadn't come out of his coma and his family had more or less given up. However, a visitor heard that and tapped a Q-code on the kid's forehead and got the smallest of responses but a still response. It was enough to lead to his reawakening. fMRI [theguardian.com] can help a little to identify which patients are still mentally available, but time with the machines (and the relevant doctors) is considered a money-maker and unavailable in large blocks even at a high price.

        --
        Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
      • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Friday December 28 2018, @01:59PM (3 children)

        by acid andy (1683) on Friday December 28 2018, @01:59PM (#779335) Homepage Journal

        But inflicting pain on animals for medical research is the most noble pursuit of them all.

        I've been struck hard by Poe's Law here! Please, for the love of all that is sentient, tell me that's intended ironically. Contextually, it certainly seems that way, but with the prevalent attitudes towards animals I have to ask.

        --
        If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
        • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday December 28 2018, @02:08PM (2 children)

          by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday December 28 2018, @02:08PM (#779337) Journal

          No jokes, I'm all in. I want an aggressive pursuit of medical knowledge that we can all benefit from. I have little tolerance for whining about laboratory pigs and mice when global meat consumption is growing.

          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
          • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Friday December 28 2018, @02:25PM

            by acid andy (1683) on Friday December 28 2018, @02:25PM (#779339) Homepage Journal

            I have little tolerance for whining about laboratory pigs and mice when global meat consumption is growing.

            That logic only works against those that are comfortable with meat consumption. I'm not.

            Can you expand on what you think makes these studies "noble"? The possible future health benefits to humans are obvious but I don't accept that the abuse of another being to approach that goal is a noble or honorable pursuit. Do you think it's justified on the grounds that they're less intelligent than most humans?

            --
            If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
          • (Score: 0) by fakefuck39 on Saturday December 29 2018, @03:00PM

            by fakefuck39 (6620) on Saturday December 29 2018, @03:00PM (#779685)

            I guess you're someone who has not experienced extended hard pain. No, I'm not talking about some surgery you had when you were on a morphine drip.

            There's a difference between killing an animal in 2 seconds with an electroshock and torture.

            But I'm with you. In fact, we'll get there faster if we experiment on humans. Let's take convicts who are to be put to death, and instead use them for experiments - it's the same thing since they die at the end. Heil Hitler brother.

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30 2018, @04:30PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30 2018, @04:30PM (#779980)

        How about getting nobly beheaded and hooked up to one of these machines, and then after years of study, before they shut you down, we can reattach your throat so you can speak and you can give us feedback on how horrific or normal it actually was for you.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @02:59AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @02:59AM (#779213)

      This is the ultimate humiliation/torture for your defeated enemy; keep his live head on a trophy shelf

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:47AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:47AM (#779238)

        Why keep them? Just chop em off and throw them in the pig pen.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:27PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:27PM (#779372)

          found the guy who doesn't watch game of thrones

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday December 28 2018, @06:27PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 28 2018, @06:27PM (#779410) Journal

        There have been a number of sci-fi stories with preserved identities central to the story. One of them preserved the identities of defeated enemies. Keep them around for advice, reward and punish those dead enemies as required for good input. It wasn't good enough a story that I remember the name or the author, but it's still rattling around amongst the cobwebs in the back of my head.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 02 2019, @01:49PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 02 2019, @01:49PM (#781013)

      Isn't the movie "Johnny Got His Gun" based on this premise?

  • (Score: 1) by DmT on Friday December 28 2018, @08:59AM

    by DmT (6439) on Friday December 28 2018, @08:59AM (#779294)

    Cyberman!!!

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by FatPhil on Friday December 28 2018, @01:30PM

    by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Friday December 28 2018, @01:30PM (#779329) Homepage
    As someone else, this is just "stopping rot", or "preservation of tissues", not keeping something alive. At least not compared to these decapitated dogs: http://www.thinkartificial.org/videos/the-severed-head-of-a-dog-kept-alive/

    That was 70+ years ago now, some fields of science don't seem to have progressed much.
    --
    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 29 2018, @12:23PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 29 2018, @12:23PM (#779663)

    In anatomy as in Orwell novels.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenotransplantation [wikipedia.org]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm [wikipedia.org]

(1)