Submitted via IRC for takyon
In July, Disney fired Guardians of the Galaxy director James Gunn. Cause for termination: a series of offensive tweets, in most cases about a decade old, that were circulated by a right-wing media personality. Gunn’s tweets, many of which were about molestation or pedophilia, were indefensible. But the method in which they were dug up, as well as the people who circulated them — bad-faith conspiracy theorists who used old jokes made in poor taste to brand Gunn as a pedophile — are part of a larger trend in which problematic or out-of-context tweets are being ripped from the past to ruin their author in the present.
Trial by online fire isn’t new. Milkshake Duck, a term coined by Twitter user @pixelatedboat in 2016, gave a name to a cultural internet phenomenon. It goes like this: someone gains online fame for something innocuous, only for it to come out shortly after that the person holds repugnant or problematic views. After a presidential election debate in 2016, for example, the internet became obsessed with a sweater-clad man named Ken Bone. His reign as a viral darling quickly came to an end after people discovered that his Reddit history included comments about stolen celebrity nudes and the “justified” killing of Trayvon Martin.
In 2018, however, the concept of Milkshake Ducking became far more convoluted. Now it’s not just about present problematic views, but holding people responsible for comments they’ve made previously, in some cases years ago. Call it Gunn’s Law: everyone has a past.
[...] Tweet deletion is no longer a matter of curation, but a necessity. Our lives are lived online more each year. We shouldn’t excuse people who spout racist, misogynist, damaging views online in present day. But as we confront our younger, more problematic past selves preserved online, the line between personal growth and punishment deserves breathing room. Until we can accept that, deleting tweets is all we have.
[This concept goes way back in time. Let the one among you who has no sin, cast the first stone. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Is it just that things are more visible, findable and more easily promulgated, now? --Ed.]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @03:41AM (1 child)
Never had a twitter account, go ahead and dig up my past tweets, I dare you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @03:33PM
I have a Tweeter and FB accounts only to avoid identity squatting.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday December 28 2018, @03:42AM (13 children)
If we had stuff like this in high school, we would have called each other "faggotfucks" while questioning the sexual orientations of people around us like we were saying "hi" to each other. We would have referred to Black goths as "spooky." Later came MySpace, which was never all Nazi about free-speech.
There's a lot of attention on Athletes lately [boston.com] as well, and if you google search about problematic tweets from athletes, you will find a treasure trove of articles. Google is quite useful when your searches are congruent with their agenda.
This is really just another specific case of the generalization of having political blackmail on somebody. In most cases, it is harmless until you need an excuse to harm them -- like fire them from your team after a bad season, or hurt their chances in the elections.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by takyon on Friday December 28 2018, @04:48AM (12 children)
Kevin Hart joked about the gays. His black card no longer holds any value (Obama ended racism) and he needs to be destroyed. Ok, his jokes did seem more like the same tired fearmongering homophobia. But they were for the most part made years ago. His public flogging has struck fear in the hearts of many celebs, as it should. The James Gunn firing was more unwarranted. But despite the differences in each case, you can see a clear pattern emerging of people using social media as their stream of consciousness, and being destroyed for it. Good on you for pointing out athletes. I sometimes see that stuff in Google News but the stories tend to be more local. You have college kids getting punished as well as pros.
"Gay" and "faggot" were used as slurs all the time when I was a kid. I suspect that continues today even in the awokened world. Or maybe the kids are so woke that they call each other "trannies" instead. No matter what era, kids will be kids, and that means they will be vicious little shits to each other from about age 8 and onward.
On to the point. Kids are now completely exposed to the Internet. Hands-off, incompetent, or tech-illiterate parents are allowing their single-digit aged kids to access Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Xbox Live, etc. Just imagine how personal computers used to cost like $3,000, and now you can get a laptop fully capable of shitposting for a mere $100 (that's after inflation). And of course, more kids are packing full-blown smartphones. Not only do they have around-the-clock access to the Internet, but they can record or even live stream each other in school, or on the school bus, etc. The naive and dumb stuff that kids do in 2018 could easily become a viral sensation. Or come back to haunt them years later.
Public schools aren't going to teach kids how to handle this environment. Most parents aren't going to do it. So we will have entire generations of children growing up exposed in a hostile environment. They'll have to learn from the school of hard knocks. Survival of the fittest, or the luckiest (to not be noticed). And it's not just ***s they have to watch out for. If you say the wrong thing, you could get the attention of the local authorities or FBI. Fortunately, these kids will still have the opportunity to become successful in life... as high-scoring school shooters.
But wait, there's more. About 15% of Americans use psychiatric drugs such as antidepressants. And 8-9 million are using Ambien. They say Ambien doesn't cause racism. But it can cause hallucinations, abnormal thoughts, aggressive behavior, sleepwalking/driving, or suicide, so...
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday December 28 2018, @05:10AM (6 children)
The war against political incorrectness is a war against honesty, and facts are often politically-incorrect. And the people in charge of facts and political correctness are the same folks in charge of flooding countries with scum to lower wages for those on the bottom, and increase bonuses for those on the top. I'm not the only person in America who notices that. That's why Trump won, and Israel lost.
(Score: -1, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:23AM (2 children)
RIGHT ON.
You're one of the few here who has the courage to speak the truth.
The rest are just a bunch of SJW pussies who never had an original thought in their entire worthless meaningless lives.
(Score: 5, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:56AM
I've seen this type of post weekly, sometimes daily, here on SN. Ever had an original thought?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @06:15PM
Actually "SJW" types have historically much more original views than the regressives that want to punish anything different.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @12:08PM (1 child)
What ever happened to that good old Republican value of personal responsibility and accountability? If you said it, own up to it and take your punishment. What? Do don't think there should be consequences for things you say? Well, I guess you should go back to the first sentence of this comment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:34PM
You can push someone only so far before they pick up the bat you are beating them with and give you a good beat down with it. That is what you are seeing. You are seeing what you want to mock picking up your mocking tools and mocking YOU with it. Because frankly they ignored you long enough. Well you now have their attention. You do not seem to care for it. Perhaps you should take the advice you so glibly handed out and take on some responsibility and accountability?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:16PM
Way too stupid and way too typical.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:12AM (3 children)
Most people think faggots are disgusting, and there's nothing you can do about that, not now, not ever. Faggots are against the laws of nature. This is true because if the whole human race was faggots, the human race would CEASE TO EXIST.
If you're smart AND you have any instinct for self-preservation, you will avoid trying to force your weirdness on others. Instead, do what you like in privacy
and remember that no one HAS to accept your sick twisted preferences. The MAJORITY is fed up with being forced to tolerate things that make them want to
vomit, motherfucker, and the world doesn't owe YOU a goddamned thing.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday December 28 2018, @05:35AM (1 child)
Disagreed. Despite my comment above, homosexuality is well-documented in nature and as a libertarian, something I fully support. However, that does not mean that gay jokes should not exist, and in one of my favorite shows called Drawn Together there was a very good episode about Captain Hero and The Terminator both spouting gay jokes, or whatever, until they kissed each other at the end.
If you are slamming me about gay jokes, remember that everybody else also had their turn: Whites (disgusting cyclist douchebags who wear bumblebee spandex and disregard traffic laws), Mexicans (you know), Blacks (who loiter a lot), Asians (the men are mommas' boys and the women are even worse), Indians (funny from a distance, douchebags in the workplace), and sadomasochistic Slavs. Oh, yes, then there is the ultimate true stereotype: The Jews.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:18PM
The worst of the lot are the stupid people. And worst of the worst are stupid people that think they're smart.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by takyon on Friday December 28 2018, @01:34PM
The trend is for kids to support degeneracy™ more than their parents. Or at least be more tolerant of it. While that rate will never hit 100%, the opposition is fighting an unwinnable war unless shit hits the fan.
"Nature" doesn't require all members of the population to reproduce. In fact, Nature "expected" much of the population to die without passing on their genes. That doesn't happen as much anymore. Even people with severe disabilities or genetic disorders can live long enough to reproduce.
Gays and lesbians are just another portion of the population that probably won't reproduce. The proportion of gays and lesbians isn't going to hit 100%. And they can reproduce if they wanted to, by being bisexual, donating sperm, or acting as a surrogate.
Global population is on track to reach 10 billion, but it will probably end up even higher. While rich Westerners are having less kids, they also have access to unprecedented fertility techniques. In the coming decades, you will even see the "faggots" having their own genetic children together, or children being made from scratch with no biological parents.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @03:38PM
Using social media should never sit in the same phrase with consciousness
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Friday December 28 2018, @04:05AM (2 children)
online, I am sinless; nothing "bad" can be traced to any of my personae. However, I refuse to throw stones, as, in real life, the fact that I have multiple usernames, none of which is my "real" name (not even my rearely-used facebook identity) would be enough to convince someone (many someones) that I was up to no good.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday December 28 2018, @03:45PM (1 child)
I sorta feel a Freudian slip in that misplaced e
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Friday December 28 2018, @07:33PM
I blame tablet keyboard and incompetent typing, rather than deep-seated repressed urges.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:15AM (10 children)
I don't give a fuck who is bothered by what I say or write.
Anyone who gets upset can go fuck themselves.
And yes, I will tell anyone the same thing to his or her face.
Anyone who gets bothered by what another person says or writes is a pussy and a chickenshit coward. Anyone who has a backbone KNOWS this is true !
The quality of human beings is at an all-time low and the SJW crap and the "virtue signaling" crap undescores this truth.
We used to have large wars which cleaned up the mess at the bottom of the barrel of humanity. With the advent of nukes, that's become unthinkable.
However, I am confident that some biological agent will come along and clean up the mess, just as it has numerous times in the past. With the propensity of niggers in Africa to fuck monkeys, I expect it will be sooner.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:36AM
Sure, because you post as Anonymous Coward. Same as I, because there is no benefit to identify myself when shooting the breeze here. Only potential harm.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:50AM (3 children)
He forgot to login? No, he's just a bullshitter!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:02AM (2 children)
I didn't "forget" to log in.
I don't HAVE an account.
Any of you pussies who think you can come meet me and shut me up are welcome to try.
I live in Raleigh, NC. Just let me know you're coming and I will put the welcome mat out for you.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @06:00AM (1 child)
You forgot to post your street address. I don't have the time or inclination to knock on every door in Raleigh.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @07:01AM
Nuke Raleigh from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:05AM (4 children)
I won't get upset, I'll just break your fingers if you say that thing to my face. I mean really, unless there's someone holding a gun to your head forcing you to read from a card, it's prima facie evidence of murderous intent on your part.
You have internet access. Remaining ignorant about the direct connection between racist attitudes and genocide must be taken as a deliberate choice now.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:17AM (3 children)
"I won't get upset, I'll just break your fingers if you say that thing to my face."
.
.
No, you will discover that I am a person you should not have fucked with, if you try to hurt me, you virtue-signaling dipshit.
Go ahead and post your real name and address, asshole. If you're such a bad motherfucker you won't be afraid to do that.
I'll be waiting, and laughing, because we both know you're just a shit-talking loser.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @06:04AM (2 children)
I think your posts need a "Keyboard Warrior!" theme song to go with them. Something along the lines of the theme songs from "He Man and the Masters of the Universe" and "Thundercats".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @09:47AM
I point and laught at all keyboard warriors, except when they're wielding a ⌨ [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @03:31PM
Be careful of the Keyboard Warrior! [giphy.com]
(Score: 2) by legont on Friday December 28 2018, @04:24AM
All through the history leaders of all sorts would change history to their tastes. Difficult now and soon not possible. Not only twits should never be deleted, every single word on the internet should be put on blockchain forever ever - immutable and public.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:38AM (1 child)
Translation: Nobody found them offensive for a decade
Translation: Disliking pedophilia makes you right-wing
Translation: Suspecting something makes you a conspiracy theorist and finding evidence makes your suspicion bad faith
(Score: 3, Funny) by takyon on Friday December 28 2018, @04:51AM
Hitl... I mean, James Gunn did nothing wrong.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Funny) by FatPhil on Friday December 28 2018, @04:51AM (6 children)
L Lin Wood, a lawyer for Unsworth, rejected Musk’s defense, saying it would effectively doom all lawsuits over alleged false and defamatory attacks on reputation published online.
“Mr Musk does not let the facts or well-established law get in the way of his novel but inaccurate contentions in his motion to dismiss,” Wood said on Thursday. “I am confident the trial court will likewise reject this fanciful position.“
"""
Musk has, after deleting his offensive tweets (why - if he thinks he's done nothing wrong?) effectively said in his own defence in no unclear terms "I'm a shitlord who spouts crap - 1st!". Alas it might take a while to resolve.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday December 28 2018, @05:21AM (3 children)
Musk is a goddamn idiot. Think Ethanol-fueled but a billionaire and stupid enough to shitpost into the sphere of the public-at-large.
If I were a billionaire entrepreneur, I'd keep my fucking mouth shut and get my shitposting out on Soylentnews, but with an extra 10 abstraction layers between my terminal and theirs.
Musk is truly a bad stereotype of a Californian entrepreneur.
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Friday December 28 2018, @05:33AM (1 child)
If Musk can deliver BFR (aka Starship Super Heavy) and Starlink, then all's good. Once BFR is up and running, the cost of building moon bases, space stations, gigantic telescopes, etc. will plummet. Starlink ensures a big revenue stream. Musk could step away from the company and it could still duke it out with the beltway bandits since they will be 5-15 years behind on fully reusable rockets.
Tesla could help brute force the cost of batteries down, which is nice. His company managed to turn itself around this year, but it faces tweet-based peril [sfgate.com].
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Friday December 28 2018, @04:09PM
Tesla, no. The Chinese, yes. [reportlinker.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Informative) by nitehawk214 on Friday December 28 2018, @12:47PM
I wonder how much of his Tesla and SpaceX success is based on him being a highly visible social media darling. Media hype drives stock prices and gets government contracts these days.
There are plenty of people that have built empires on hype alone.
You live by the sword...
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @05:40AM (1 child)
Musk's self-proclaimed "defense" is the uneducated clueless raving of a narcissistic egomaniac.
Musk obviously has a profound ignorance of the law, and the court will give Musk an education which Musk could have had for far less money if he had used those mood stabilizers his friends told him he needed.
Musk is a raging prick who has milked the system for all it's worth ( tax breaks for Tesla, evasion of banking regs for Paypal ). Musk has produced little or nothing of value, and this will become increasingly apparent over time. Sorry, but a Tesla is not something of value, it is merely an artifact of Musk's Federal rebate scam.
Personally I hope Musk gets some godawful disease which kills him but causes him to suffer the tortures of the damned first. He's a piece of human garbage
the world would be better off without.
Did you read that, Elon ? KILL YOURSELF NOW AND AVOID THE RUSH.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:28PM
The irony is strong with you.
(Score: 3, Touché) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday December 28 2018, @06:20AM
-sent".
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday December 28 2018, @06:33AM (1 child)
I date most of my screeds.
I want to engender not so much as sympathy for us wingnuts, but true understanding. Part of that is that from time to time, the CIA taps my phone; it's even done so to the point that I picked up the phone to thank the CIA for looking after me.
Long after I'm gone, psychological researchers will be able to look over the dates of my various articles, essays, rants and manifestoes so as to be able to follow my path from reality, into batshit insanity then back out again.
I live my writing online now matter how embarrassing so that my historical record will be complete.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:03PM
Do not confuse being 'crazy' with just being a dick.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @07:16AM
I am Anonymous Coward.
I have no Twitter account. I have no Facebook account. I post nowhere on social media of any kind. I post anonymously, and if I can't post somewhere anonymously, I don't post. In this age of Disqus, that means in most places I don't post.
I learned back in Usenet days, when I was an FAQ maintainer for a newsgroup. I made it far too easy for anyone to connect my actual identity with my postings. I paid for that error in massive annoyance, although compared to what happens to people today, it was really nothing.
Yes, authorities could easily track me down, but I'm not posting anything even close to illegal. I do not fear the police, I fear the mad crowd who needs a fresh body each day.
I tried to tell people, back on Usenet, and on IRC, and then on web forums, and on each iteration of online communication, that all their words are recorded, and you never know what innocuous words today will come back to bite you ten or twenty years in the future.
Well, it's the future. Chomp chomp.
I am Anonymous Coward, and this is why.
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Friday December 28 2018, @08:39AM (3 children)
Why did Disney fire James Gunn? He didn't break a law, Disney simply decided to ignore his actual work and focus on his private life. People have a right to liberty and that includes their right to earn a living.
The fact that everyone is focusing on twitter instead of the larger issue here is a proof that Western society is just as immature as when it was burning witches, lynching blacks and firing homosexuals. Instead of devising ways to make sure the problem doesn't occur, western society likes to replace it with another problem - in this case, replacing old values with new ones but keeping on the
mobsocial justice.(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @03:34PM (1 child)
[Citation needed]
Why precisely does Disney owe James Gunn a right to be paid?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:22PM
Also the stones he chucked at others bounced and hit him. They used the very tools he was using against others on him.
Take for example the recent NPC fiasco. Massively censored for saying the same things the 'real NPCs' were saying. Why? They did not like being mocked. That was their toy to mock others with. 2016 was the year the 'right' picked up the narcissistic tools of the 'left' and used them against them. The 'left' does not like it. Why because they do things to the 'right' that they would really hate if others did to them.
But my guess they got rid of Mr Gunn because he had other issues and they were not personal. My guess he was not doing things management wanted and this was a convenient way to 'shake things up'. Take for example Star Wars 8. That thing landed like a wet turd on a porch. Yet Disney wants to blame everyone but the people who made it. No one wants to talk about the elephant in the room. Star wars just is not that good. The effects and 'look' is cool. The thing prints money. But story wise it is mostly a dumpster fire. People were expecting empire strikes back and got attack of the clones with awkward boring bits and talk about sand and economics. When you see a movie going through 2-3 directors that is a good sign of management meddling. If you are not willing to play that game they find reasons to 'remove you'.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @04:18PM
How has Gunn's right to make a living been infringed? Disney just decided that they didn't want to employ him anymore.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday December 28 2018, @08:41AM
The idea that one should moderate/filter their online communications is nothing new.
Back in 1994, when the Fortune 50 company for which I worked first connected to the Internet, the primary recommendation made to users was "don't say anything online that you wouldn't like to see on the front page of your local newspaper."
Despite the fact that many places no longer have local newspapers, it's still good advice.
Should folks be held accountable for stuff said/done in the distant past? It depends. Rather like statutes of limitation [wikipedia.org] on criminal acts.
But the truth is that the dirty tricksters will do their dirty tricks, which includes digging up dirt on their enemies. That's nothing new either.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 4, Interesting) by fyngyrz on Friday December 28 2018, @08:55AM
There's a deeper root, yet still relatively recent, to this than current social media. US society (can't speak for others) has for at least the past 50 years or so preferred retribution over rehabilitation.
Looking at the general trends of jurisprudence and so forth, we see the restrictions and roadblocks on those who have records have become pretty consistently more strict, culminating in today's forever felony records, lifetime no-fly, no-buy and various other lists, often dubious stories from long-past acquaintances, the digging up of random dirt in general, however otherwise unsupported it may be. In the age of information, information gets weaponized. Am I surprised? Hardly.
Old tweets strike me as pretty much just more of the same. Frankly, I'm very seldom concerned with such things on a personal level, but watching how society goes about leveraging them does concern me. It looks to me at age 62 like it's generally getting worse faster, with the occasional bubble of sanity smothered as quickly as possible by the pitchforks-and-torches waving masses.
What to do? No idea. Really. Sometimes I think it's one of the fairly late signs of a true failure of our (US) society. Perhaps others as well. Perhaps societies are like life: no one gets out alive.
I'm truly sorry for people who are legitimately attempting to rehabilitate themselves in the current environment. Without a seriously ironclad sense of self, some form of solid legal income, and support from at least some friends, that uphill looks to me to be so steep as to be outright terrifying.
--
I had the house child-proofed. But they must
have done it wrong. Kids still get in somehow.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @09:34AM
So stop complaining already.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 28 2018, @11:14AM
And again, the biggest winner is the one who has the biggest control over censorship. And people will want censorship. Doesn't matter that something neutral or funny became offensive last month just because some company wants to sell more stuff and spin another affair in a society lobotomized by ads industry.