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posted by martyb on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:10PM   Printer-friendly
from the now-you-see-it-now-you-don't dept.

Wired Magazine has an article that some might find interesting.

I was at what should have been a farmers’ market in Berkeley, California, last year when a throng of black-clad antifascists tried to scrap it out with far-right ralliers in the middle of a park named after Martin Luther King Jr. I watched scrawny college students get pummeled by hulking, be-swastika-ed ex-soldiers and ex-law enforcement officers in motorcycle gear. The antifascists’ one reprisal was setting off a homemade smoke bomb, which promptly blew back into their own faces, drawing raucous jeering from the white supremacists. It was as close to a war zone as I ever hope to be, and it was unequivocally a win for the racists.

But then,

It was easy to imagine the Bay Area becoming an extremist battleground—each weekend an opportunity for the next rally turned riot.

That vision has not come to pass. In the long arc of American racism, 2017 saw a sudden spike in visibility, but it was not the beginning of a new era in which people routinely walk the streets advertising their white supremacy. This year has brought the opposite trend: 2018 has been a year of pushing the alt-right and other white nationalist groups back underground, and punishing them for misdeeds committed during their brief moment in the sun. That’s a testament to the strength of the backlash against 2017’s naked racism, and evidence of how costly being openly racist has become—especially on the internet, where it has doomed entire social media platforms to obscurity. This must be counted as a good thing.

Goebbels said, allegedly, "Even if we lose we will win, because our enemies have adopted our methods." Looks like the alt-right is losing.

Regardless of what scaremonger reporters might espouse, the alt-right, as we have come to know it over the last two years, has failed—as extremism researchers always knew it would. But in its place has come something shadowier and far older: an underground white supremacist movement operating on society’s fringes, and a culture that disavows the racists while quietly mainstreaming their ideas.

So here's the point:

The issue, though, is that while there’s satisfaction and schadenfreude in watching these public flounderings, the alt-right doesn’t have to be visible to succeed. In fact, going underground is a return to the status quo for American white supremacy.


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by ikanreed on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:34PM (44 children)

    by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:34PM (#781526) Journal

    Only one kind of good nazi.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:42PM (37 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:42PM (#781533) Homepage Journal

      Nice how you just made Goebbels' statement the truth. I needed a good laugh this morning.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by ikanreed on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:47PM (31 children)

        by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:47PM (#781537) Journal

        No, sorry, goebbels fucking died, shelled to death by commies near his sad little bunker.

        It's a loser ideology, and claiming they won because they died is fucking bullshit, and you fucking know it. They're only martyrs to the worst, lamest people on the planet, and no one cares.

        "Haha made you kill me by being evil" is only a victory for comic book villains.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by HiThere on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:15PM (25 children)

          by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:15PM (#781555) Journal

          That depends on which part of the message you consider important. If you think intolerance is the important part, they won...not perfectly, but society has been a lot less tolerant of a lot of things since then. If you think of them as proponents of centralized control, they won. They're dead, and I sure don't mourn them, but many of the ideas they championed flourish.

          (OTOH, there are reasonable arguments that society was headed in that direction anyway, what with the closing of the frontier, improved centralized communication, faster transport, etc.)

          --
          Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:48PM (13 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:48PM (#781577)

            That depends on which part of the message you consider important. If you think intolerance is the important part, they won...not perfectly, but society has been a lot less tolerant of a lot of things since then.

            Yes, but WHAT things?

            We're less tolerant of people in power raping, assaulting, and harassing women. Check.
            We're less tolerant of racists being racist against our fellow citizens of color. Check.
            We're less tolerant of false equivalencies so often touted by the right. Check.
            We're less tolerant of false dichotomies, also so often touted by the right. Check.
            We're less tolerant of billionaires buying our government and then fucking us over (usually, but not exclusively, through the auspices of the Republican Party). Check.
            We're less tolerant of retrograde republicans trying to force us back into the dark ages of pre-Roe-v-Wade and pre-civili rights laws. Check.

            All of which lead for a far more tolerant society for everyone except ... oh, yeah, the poor, poor racists. Whatever will they do, when the rest of us won't let them bully our fellow neighbors?

            Tolerating this shit is what got us into this mess. While not tolerating it won't be enough to get us out, it's a damn fine first step, and good inoculation against further assaults against our civil society in the future. The racists belong in the closet, long may they rot there.

            • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @06:09PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @06:09PM (#781591)

              We're less tolerant of people in power raping, assaulting, and harassing women. Check. [vox.com]
              We're less tolerant of racists being racist against our fellow citizens of color. Check. [dailywire.com]
              We're less tolerant of false equivalencies so often touted by the right. Check. [wgbh.org]
              We're less tolerant of false dichotomies, also so often touted by the right. Check. [themoderatevoice.com]
              We're less tolerant of billionaires buying our government and then fucking us over (usually, but not exclusively, through the auspices of the Republican Party). Check. [capitalresearch.org]
              We're less tolerant of retrograde republicans trying to force us back into the dark ages of pre-Roe-v-Wade and pre-civili rights laws. Check. [cnn.com]

              What are you?

            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:24PM (7 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:24PM (#781634)

              We're less tolerant of billionaires buying our government and then fucking us over (usually, but not exclusively, through the auspices of the Republican Party). Check

              Yeah, well we are less tolerant of your obvious partisan (equally tribal) bullshit and projection. As far as the deceitful democrats go, the old cliche applies perfectly: With friends like them, who needs enemies? Wittingly or not, the democrats handed the presidency over to this man. I find it very disappointing to see people still support them. Their little billionaires club is no better than the republicans, an fact they are the very same people. So please, save your breath, you're only making it easier for the people and ideas you claim to oppose.

              • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @08:25PM (6 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @08:25PM (#781663)

                Their little billionaires club is no better than the republicans, an fact they are the very same people.

                No, they're not. The Murdochs, DeVosses, the Kochs, the Wynnes, and the rest of the current scum who have taken over our executive branch, and for whom Trump is currently playing bitch, are quite different from the Buffets, Gates, and Soroses.

                Yes, there are billionaires who play both sides (read: "bribe" both sides with campaign contributions), but they're a far cry from the likes of the Kochs et al. Equating the two is another in a plethora of examples of right-wing false equivalencies.

                ,you're only making it easier for the people and ideas you claim to oppose.

                You seem to be doing that job just fine.

                • (Score: 1, Insightful) by bobmorning on Friday January 04 2019, @12:51AM (4 children)

                  by bobmorning (6045) on Friday January 04 2019, @12:51AM (#781808)

                  She lost, get over it.

                  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @02:02AM (3 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @02:02AM (#781844)

                    Alternatively: they are the good cop bad cop routine of the uniparty, get over it.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @05:23AM (2 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @05:23AM (#781915)

                      Exactly! This is what the dumbass liberals that support democrats don't want to understand. Tell them they're being taken for a ride, and they only dig in. Ol' Bernie Sanders fished 'em in real good.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:41PM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:41PM (#782164)

                        I'd take Sanders in a heartbeat over being suckered by Trump :P

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @09:14AM

                          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @09:14AM (#782448)

                          Eh, whatever, everything changes once they get the power. They always find a way to disappoint or enrage. That's how you keep the pendulum swinging. Over and over we repeat the same old bullshit expecting different results.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @05:31AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @05:31AM (#781918)

                  This is the expected boilerplate response from not so smart, so-called "liberals" that believe what's in front of the camera is real. They've never been on a set before. They don't know the directors and producers and their minions, only the actors, and only when they're acting.

                  My billionaires will kick your billionaires' ass! Nyah!

                  Dude, please...

            • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @08:32PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @08:32PM (#781666)

              You tolerate censorship.
              You tolerate prejudice.
              You tolerate collective responsibility.
              You tolerate discrimination.

              If you dunno what I am talking about, it is grave. If you know what behaviors I might be referring to and dismiss it, it is worse.

              Now, don't get me wrong, I think you are just one of the two barking dogs used to keep sheep in check, the other side is indeed as bad as yours. But at least they tend to admit more openly that might makes right, while your hypocrisy shows every time you deny that the right is totalitarian as you are, but with a national granularity instead of an international one.

            • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @01:46AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @01:46AM (#781835)

              > We're less tolerant of racists being racist against our fellow citizens of color. Check.

              And your words ooze with all that you've been brainwashed by. Neomarxist racism against Whites. Only Whites are your enemy. You are the next generation of Nazis. How much truth has to slap you in the face before you see the evil you are part of?

              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @04:57PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @04:57PM (#782541)

                the truth is always a "troll"...

            • (Score: 2, Informative) by Sulla on Friday January 04 2019, @06:08PM

              by Sulla (5173) on Friday January 04 2019, @06:08PM (#782146) Journal

              We're less tolerant of retrograde republicans trying to force us back into the dark ages of pre-Roe-v-Wade and pre-civili rights laws. Check.

              Yeah but we only got there by being more tolerant at defining limits of what makes a human being, ie a person with less than 6 months of development

              We're less tolerant of billionaires buying our government and then fucking us over (usually, but not exclusively, through the auspices of the Republican Party). Check.

              You are blind to the injustices of both sides. The ACA was a huge bailout for the medical corporations who paid billions to Dem politicians. All sides are corrupt here, one side just pretends not to be. So in reality you are more tolerant to corruption as long as its on your side.

              --
              Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by khallow on Friday January 04 2019, @01:56AM (10 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @01:56AM (#781841) Journal

            but society has been a lot less tolerant of a lot of things since then

            Even with the PC police out in force, it's a better and far more tolerant world than it was in the 1930s.

            I wonder why this article is bragging about hypothetically driving a movement underground (even though it's not, of course) rather than years of more profound change, like say 1945? Nah, just kidding. I don't wonder, it's Wired, they've always been at war with Eastasia.

            • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday January 04 2019, @06:05AM

              by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @06:05AM (#781930) Journal

              Whether it's better and more tolerant depends on just which things you think are important. E.g., it's less tolerant of personal risk taking. It's more tolerant of centralized control. But it *is* a real question as to whether WWII had any effect on that or not, as it's a continuation of a trend that was in place before then. Should there be a law about seat belts? There are arguments both ways, but before WWII the idea of such a law would have been ridiculous.

              FWIW, racism in the US long predated the Nazis. They acted to put a damper on its public expression for decades by being such a horrible example, but we seem to be heading back to the "status quo ante".

              --
              Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
            • (Score: 2, Troll) by cubancigar11 on Friday January 04 2019, @09:57AM (8 children)

              by cubancigar11 (330) on Friday January 04 2019, @09:57AM (#781981) Homepage Journal

              No, it is not. It is just richer, has more convenience and the problems that 'trigger' people are less severe. But it is not only just as intolerant and bigoted and ignorant, but it is also a lot more dangerous because of globalization of every single fucking confrontation.

              • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Friday January 04 2019, @01:44PM (4 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @01:44PM (#782022) Journal

                and the problems that 'trigger' people are less severe/quote. Exactly. That for me is the number one sign that we'll improving greatly. They wouldn't be complaining about microaggressions, if there were far more real injustice out there.

                • (Score: 1, Troll) by cubancigar11 on Sunday January 06 2019, @03:54PM (3 children)

                  by cubancigar11 (330) on Sunday January 06 2019, @03:54PM (#782766) Homepage Journal

                  There are plenty of real injustices out there, though a lot less are losing lives over it. But it has not been due to politicking over those injustices and more due to WW2 showing what it is like to just go all-in, so to say, over identity politics. And make no mistake - these SJWs and libtards and feminists are the real Nazis out here. Anybody who has studied any history knows that people who participated in Nazi atrocities weren't anything special - they were regular people - just unequipped to handle any attack on their belief system and manipulated enough to hate a subclass of their own society, just like the rioters in any riot. There is no difference between a swastika wielding German in 1940 and ikanreed. Plenty people used the opportunity of failing economic might of Germany to heat their own hearth of hatred, fully pushing for economic demise and censorship of the so-called inhouse-enemy, and plenty people are there to do the same in America in a world that is slowly regaining its pre-war position.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 06 2019, @04:49PM (2 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 06 2019, @04:49PM (#782783) Journal

                    There are plenty of real injustices out there

                    To the contrary, microaggression hysteria indicate that there's not enough real injustices for some people. IMOH it's like autoimmune disease and allergies. These get more common when the human body has less exposure to foreign proteins and such. When the usual suspects are complaining about trivial problems rather than big ones, it indicates to me that we have a lot less big problems than we used to.

                    But it has not been due to politicking over those injustices and more due to WW2 showing what it is like to just go all-in, so to say, over identity politics.

                    Cause is irrelevant here. Sure, I'd rather that injustices were settled via rational people just deciding to stop rather than killing 100 million people. But the outcome is what we're discussing not the meandering and bloody path that got us here.

                    There is no difference between a swastika wielding German in 1940 and ikanreed. Plenty people used the opportunity of failing economic might of Germany to heat their own hearth of hatred, fully pushing for economic demise and censorship of the so-called inhouse-enemy, and plenty people are there to do the same in America in a world that is slowly regaining its pre-war position.

                    While that's amusing, I grant that there might be some differences. Still some of the eventual Nazis of the past (Vidkun Quisling being a notable example) hopped around from one authoritarian ideology to another, often for very frivolous reasons, until they happened to pass through the Nazi-space. It may well be that some of these present day, virulent anti-Nazis will switch over to the pure religion once they get insulted or attacked by their fellow travelers, significant other wrecks their car, brain chemistry change, or whatever.

                    I'm not sure what we should do about this at-risk group of proto-Nazis. ikanreed after all may stay good and never become a Nazi. One can never tell until the clock runs out.

                    • (Score: 1, Troll) by cubancigar11 on Sunday January 06 2019, @05:23PM (1 child)

                      by cubancigar11 (330) on Sunday January 06 2019, @05:23PM (#782795) Homepage Journal

                      Microaggression hysteria isn't actually an issue in the black community, for example. They have got real problems. This shit is just a mating dance between conservatives and feminists and they both don't care about the real issues. You would think that under 2 terms of Mahatma Obama he would have fixed at least some basic issue but no, he was a lawyer chose to run it exactly the way it was being run.

                      The microaggression hysteria is just like the hippy era, really, which is to say that it is largely irrelevant for the ruling class. The undercurrent to that, though, much like the undercurrent behind the hippies, is very real. The latter happened due to the sudden economic abundance of resources just after WW2 when the whole world needed rebuilding and USA was the only country in the position to do it. At that time it was possible to fix a transistor and raise a family. I digress...

                      Today, on the other hand, there is extreme competition everywhere. Government is cutting the education budget every now and then, forcing universities to open fraudulent degrees and courses. Then the people who teach these fraudulent courses such as 'women studies' etc. are spreading their mental illness and moral bankruptcy (which is why they became professors anyway) to the students leading to the microaggression hysteria.

                      Then there is a large amount of female workforce that thinks it is competent because they got good grades for being more obedient than boys come to job market and find that nobody is hiring them, and they are bitching about wage-gap and patriarchy and men instead of bringing about some change in themselves.

                      And then there are men who are losing their jobs, find that their whole city is going to become a ghost town because coal mining is on its way out, and they don't know what to do besides joining the most locally connected political group they know - the local Nazi.

                      As far as ikanreed and his/her ilk are concerned - if you wish death upon someone because of their political standing you are a Nazi. It doesn't matter if you are a communist or not. You are a fucking Nazi. Ask yourself, why were Nazis bad? Were they bad because they opposed socialism or because they killed innocent people? Believe me, the only reason Antifa hasn't killed someone yet is because they are still in power.

                      PS: I am surprised by the discourse here. It is definitely not the group of slashdotters I grew up with. I never thought an attack of freedom of speech will get so much support on slashdot. And I am flabbergasted by the idea that Nazis learning to hide the swastika sign is somehow a good thing according to the liberals. How fucking stupid is that?

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 06 2019, @06:31PM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 06 2019, @06:31PM (#782812) Journal
                        It's still less objectively as I noted in my first post. Feminism has gained a lot of grounds. Even the US black community is much better off than it was before. Existence of problems is not a sign things are worse -unless there were no problems in the past!

                        As far as ikanreed and his/her ilk are concerned - if you wish death upon someone because of their political standing you are a Nazi. It doesn't matter if you are a communist or not. You are a fucking Nazi. Ask yourself, why were Nazis bad? Were they bad because they opposed socialism or because they killed innocent people? Believe me, the only reason Antifa hasn't killed someone yet is because they are still in power.

                        Good point.

              • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by cubancigar11 on Saturday January 05 2019, @06:40PM (2 children)

                by cubancigar11 (330) on Saturday January 05 2019, @06:40PM (#782579) Homepage Journal

                Modded troll - awww!!! My personal stalker!

                • (Score: 1, Troll) by cubancigar11 on Sunday January 06 2019, @08:27AM (1 child)

                  by cubancigar11 (330) on Sunday January 06 2019, @08:27AM (#782705) Homepage Journal

                  Hehehehe. TRIGGERED!!! :D

                  • (Score: 1, Troll) by cubancigar11 on Sunday January 06 2019, @03:44PM

                    by cubancigar11 (330) on Sunday January 06 2019, @03:44PM (#782765) Homepage Journal

                    Just in case anyone was wondering if I was wrong and intolerance HAS actually decreased, here is your "on-topic" proof.

                    LOL, enjoy your tiniest amount of power. May it help you relax.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:31PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:31PM (#781565)

          He committed suicide like the other nazi cowards.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:54PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:54PM (#781581)

            Yet, Europe is well on it's way to the Third Reich Federation. So uhm.. Next up a Third Reich army. Sadly not as much occult stuff as in the good Nazi stories of Wolfenstein, just a bunch of selfimportant suits running the place. So a correction to the theory could be that any ideology will be met with an anti-ideology re-affirming the same methods and independently of the winning ideology the suits end up running the place.

        • (Score: 0, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 03 2019, @08:43PM

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday January 03 2019, @08:43PM (#781670) Homepage Journal

          s/Nazi/Jew/ on your initial post. You still won't see that the unthinking hatred to exactly the same ends is the same but any sane person should.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 04 2019, @08:00AM (4 children)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday January 04 2019, @08:00AM (#781961) Journal

        You might want to go back underground, Uzzard. That little remark makes me think I've somehow overestimated you. If you're with those goose-stepping fucks you can go right to Hell with them.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:07PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:07PM (#782144)

          Sad little mixed up girl, returns to her fears of the afterlife as a rebuttal.

          • (Score: 2, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 04 2019, @07:21PM

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday January 04 2019, @07:21PM (#782194) Journal

            I'm not the one who ought to be afraid, "friend." And why? Because I'm making it a point to live a decent life here and now. Are *you* hiding something in your conscience...?

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:49PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:49PM (#782173)

          I hate to defend the shitbird but he had a point, ikanreed is advocating genocide of nasty people which is what the Nazis themselves did.

          I think Goebbel's statement is stupid anyway because "genocidal maniacs should not be allowed to live" is pretty different from "jews, blacks and gays should not be allowed to live" but I don't think advocating genocide is ever a good solution. We must push back against the neo-nazi shitheads but please avoid violence.

          Shirtbird does seem to always be defending the worst of the worst while remaining silent on other acts of shittiness. Guess he's only concerned about the oppression of white conservative males

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @08:45PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @08:45PM (#782225)

            Nazism is not a race, or any other thing like it. It is a choice. And it is a choice to die for, and many Nazis already did, and we seem to have a few more who require the same services. Executing "nasty people" is not genocide, it is justice. Nice try at a false equivalence, shissen nazi!

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @11:09PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @11:09PM (#781756)

      Problem is Nazis were socialists. They label all conservatives as Nazis nowadays while antifa is running around like the brown shirts hitting old men over the head with bike locks.

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @03:51AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @03:51AM (#781891)

        They were socialists in name only.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @09:57AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @09:57AM (#781980)

          The "It wasn't real socialism" argument eh?

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 04 2019, @06:08PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @06:08PM (#782145) Journal

          That may be true, but the US liberals are liberal in name only.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @04:07AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @04:07AM (#781897)

        Does not pass smell test of working class control of means of production.

        In other news, the North Korean government is run by the Democratic Party of the USA, and the Chinese government is run by the Republican Party of the USA.

        And other standard rebuttals. Not even obvious ones. They've been repeated ad nauseum. However, it is natural for fascists of all stripes to seek to eliminate socialism, so even guilt by way of occultist "true name" reasoning is to be expected. Fascism and socialism are two possible ways forward from terminal capitalism, and they both offer competing solutions to the objective social conditions inevitable in terminal capitalism.

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @01:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @01:07PM (#782010)

      Only one kind of good jew.

      There, fixed that for you.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:34PM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:34PM (#781527)

    going underground is a return to the status quo for American white supremacy.

    I think most people would be happy if the white supremacists went about six feet underground. Not trolling, just stating a fact. Don't forget that WWII was about stopping the German white supremacists. Tens of millions of people died in that effort. Hopefully we don't have to make that large of a sacrifice next time.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:46PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:46PM (#781536)

      Actually, WWII was about stopping German conquest, and only reluctantly for America, which only entered the war after it was attacked by Japan. The actual ideas of racial supremacy and eugenics were quite popular in America, and the full extent of the Holocaust was not widely known until after the war.

      The end result of WWII was that America got to dominate the Western world by setting up institutions it controlled, achieving a greater conquest than Germany could have ever dreamed of. A fine prize in return for the millions of patriot losers thrown into the meat grinder.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:17PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:17PM (#781626)

        Summary: World War II was not about the Jews.
        If you were Jewish, it was bad, but it was not a factor in the West entering the war.
        GP poster shows the propaganda has left him misinformed.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @03:34AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @03:34AM (#781884)

          GP poster shows the propaganda has left him misinformed.

          Sorry, but no. If you think the atrocious against the Jewish people were the only thing that made the nazis "alt-right" then you are misinformed.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:16AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:16AM (#781939)

          And the American Civil War, oh, sorry, the War of Northern Aggression, was not about slavery, either. And "Wrecking Ball" was not about Miley Cyrus. So there.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by meustrus on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:45PM

        by meustrus (4961) on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:45PM (#781644)

        Then America and the USSR entered a cold-war whose only safe front was a war of propaganda. Only after that happened did America start cleaning out its own evils, and only because racial violence and poverty were being used in Soviet propaganda to show that the west was a terrible place.

        --
        If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @01:20PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @01:20PM (#782015)

      "Don't forget that WWII was about stopping the German white supremacists."

      Re-writing history, are we?

      WW2 was about stopping jewish marxism virus from invading, pillaging and corrupting healthy society.

      But the jewish marxists won, thanks to you 'murricans and misinformed victims of marxist jewry.

      Now they give you financial crisis after crisis and death in faraway lands and your president fellates them daily.

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @04:01PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @04:01PM (#782076)

        If by Jewish Marxism you mean movements influenced by Leon Trotsky and Rosa Luxemburg, then you're objectively wrong. The Freikorps captured and executed Rosa Luxemburg after the Sparticist Uprising failed (after the November Revolution failed), Stalin betrayed the October Revolution and purged the Trotskyists, and that was that. They're tenacious, though, and the Trotskyists and views sympathetic to Luxemburg can be found over at wswswswswsws [wsws.org].

        If by Jewish Marxism you mean neoliberalism, then drill baby drill!

        (But I think you do not know what you mean.)

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @09:39PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @09:39PM (#782244)

          Jews (khazar) are responsible for all the ills of this world.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:39PM (26 children)

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:39PM (#781531) Homepage Journal

    You could have had them out where you could keep track of them and openly mock their foolishness. What do you have now?

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 5, Informative) by ikanreed on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:51PM (19 children)

      by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 03 2019, @04:51PM (#781542) Journal

      Fewer people getting run over or murdered at their temple by radicalized psychos. Less publically disseminated talking points for Might Buzzard to waste our time by posting here.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:04PM (17 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:04PM (#781613)

        You're right. Everything we hear must be filtered.
        Why do people give the Chinese govt such a hard time? They are just trying to prevent disorder in their society. Common people need someone better than them to tell them what to think. Free speech is a menace to harmonious society.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:10PM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:10PM (#781616)

          No one in the US has had their freedom of speech infringed, if you don't like being a social outcast because people think you're a racist piece of shit then stop being a racist piece of shit or keep it hidden from society. Come back with your complaints when someone's free speech is actually violated.

          • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:21PM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:21PM (#781629)

            The rightwing people you dislike so much would give you the same retort back in the day if you complained about abuses heaped on you.
            Are you really such a blind zealot? Do you have no sense of history? Are you just too stupid to imagine what happens when you jettison being a country of laws?

            • (Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:11PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:11PM (#781693)

              Hey clueless person, no laws are being broken and going unpunished as far as I have seen. Are you too stupid to understand that? Come back when you have a valid complaint about laws being jettisoned, until then you are just a nazi apologist and therefore a piece of shit. No one is stopping the alt-right from spewing racist garbage, and any violence to do so is already illegal.

              You alt-right supporters and other adjacent positions are just so dumb. So so so dumb, and it is because you have a belief (racism) that simply does not mesh with reality so you end up being stupid stupid stupid trying to defend such beliefs.

              At this point in time the best complaint you've got is getting deplatformed by Twitter and web hosting companies. Maybe go ask some minorities if they would trade in their daily experiences with racism for getting banned by Twitter. The answer may surprise you!

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @11:05PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @11:05PM (#781753)

                No one is stopping the alt-right from spewing racist garbage, and any violence to do so is already illegal.

                At this point in time the best complaint you've got is getting deplatformed by Twitter and web hosting companies.

                An excellent example of doublethink - the ability to hold true two opposing ideas at the same time.

                • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @02:22AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @02:22AM (#781854)

                  No dumbdumb that is the epitome of the conservative / libertarian "free market" ideal. Business will hurt if people associate their product/service with lite Nazis so they choose to not do business with the little racist jerks. I don't agree with that decision and think we need to roll back ISPs to being "dumb pipes" like you, but until that happens the racist fuckers are just gonna have to deal with the fact that no one wants to do business with them.

                  Nice attempt at pushing a logical fallacy that doesn't exist, you do realize that such accusations have to be true in order to have any value right?

            • (Score: 0, Troll) by jbruchon on Saturday January 05 2019, @05:47PM

              by jbruchon (4473) on Saturday January 05 2019, @05:47PM (#782564) Homepage

              How quickly people forget about McCarthyism.

              --
              I'm just here to listen to the latest song about butts.
        • (Score: 2) by ikanreed on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:40PM (10 children)

          by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:40PM (#781643) Journal

          No, see, it doesn't need to be filtered if we kill all the nazis. You're not thinking hard enough.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:06PM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:06PM (#781724)

            After we're done killing the nazis can we start on the communists too?

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:39PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:39PM (#781735)

              You never get done killing the nazis. There's always more nazis. Always.

              You say there are no more nazis? That's the kind of thing a nazi would say. Come to think of it, you kind of look like a nazi....

              There are always more nazis.

            • (Score: 3, Disagree) by ikanreed on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:46PM (3 children)

              by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:46PM (#781738) Journal

              You can't just kill people cause you disagree with them.

              • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @12:41AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @12:41AM (#781804)

                You can't just kill people cause you disagree with them.

                Yes you can. Happens every day, just not on a large scale. People have killed over disagreeing who will get to split the wishbone at Thanksgiving.

                It's not right to do so. It probably won't achieve whatever you think your actual goal is. But to say people can't kill people over a disagreement is silly.

                Perhaps you meant they shouldn't?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @05:56PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @05:56PM (#782138)

                Funniest comment + moderation this year.

              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 04 2019, @06:19PM

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @06:19PM (#782153) Journal

                As AC has already pointed out, you can actually kill people for any reason, or even for no reason. There may, or may not, be consequences, but you can kill all you like.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVZtf1oJLK8 [youtube.com]

                Dance hall girls were the evenin' treat
                Empty cartridges and blood lined the gutters of the street
                Men were shot down for the sake of fun
                Or just to hear the noise of their forty-four guns
                And there's fire on the mountain, lightnin' in the air
                Gold in them hills and it's waitin' for me there

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by crafoo on Thursday January 03 2019, @11:53PM (2 children)

            by crafoo (6639) on Thursday January 03 2019, @11:53PM (#781778)

            Always one murder away from Utopia, eh?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @02:36AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @02:36AM (#781861)

              https://soylentnews.org/politics/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=29442&page=1&cid=781542#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] was a slightly trolling mostly serious comment from what I could see, the response was a trolling bunch of crap and ikanreed then rolled with the troll game.

              So I guess this is the pinnacle of alt-right debate? Troll people into saying something stupid then pretend it was something they meant seriously?

            • (Score: 3, Funny) by Sulla on Friday January 04 2019, @06:14PM

              by Sulla (5173) on Friday January 04 2019, @06:14PM (#782149) Journal

              https://www.theonion.com/report-suggests-stalin-was-just-one-great-purge-away-fr-1825691925 [theonion.com]

              BALTIMORE—Challenging decades of mainstream academic thought, a group of Johns Hopkins University researchers released a report Tuesday indicating that the late Soviet Union leader Joseph Stalin was only one great purge away from creating a communist utopia. “Our research demonstrates that if Stalin had shipped a mere 100,000 more people to Siberia, the whole communist experiment would have worked out perfectly,” said historian and report co-author Franklin Morrison, adding that all of the USSR’s corruption, hunger, and disease would have disappeared overnight if Stalin had simply been able to let a few million more Ukrainians starve to death. “It’s a shame, because in 1953 the Soviet Union was really on the precipice of becoming a perpetual workers’ paradise devoid of all poverty and want. Unfortunately, Stalin passed away before he could round up just one last group of intellectuals and make them dig their own mass graves.” Morrison also noted that Stalin likely came closer to creating a communist utopia than any other leader in world history besides China’s Mao Tse-tung, who actually achieved it.

              --
              Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @01:28PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @01:28PM (#782017)

            Exactly something a leftist extremist communist jew would say.

            You are a jew. Amirite?

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday January 03 2019, @08:46PM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday January 03 2019, @08:46PM (#781672) Homepage Journal

        Give it up. Even your head-up-your-ass vision can't be clouded enough to spout nonsense like that.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @08:03PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @08:03PM (#781655)

      1) They're not nearly as dangerous.
      2) They can't rope in new recruits with a bunch of toned down "race realist" moat and bailey bullshit

    • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday January 04 2019, @06:19AM (3 children)

      by aristarchus (2645) on Friday January 04 2019, @06:19AM (#781940) Journal

      What do you have now?

      We'll always have Paris, Mighty Buzztard. You wore blue, the Germans wore gray. The fundamental things apply, as time goes by.

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday January 04 2019, @11:09AM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday January 04 2019, @11:09AM (#781991) Homepage Journal

        I am shocked - shocked - to find that trolling is going on in here!

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 04 2019, @06:22PM (1 child)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @06:22PM (#782155) Journal

        Uhhhh, the Union wore blue, and the Confederates wore gray. In Paris? I think we wore green. I'm pretty sure it was green. All my toy soldiers when I was a kid were green. And, the Germans were brown.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @08:37PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @08:37PM (#782222)

          Not Paris, Texas, Runaway, you idiot!

          (pro-. . ., oh hell, clue to the clueless: ari was referencing Casablanca, just in case you missed it. Seems like Buzzy got it. Could be the start of a beautiful friendship.)

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:02PM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:02PM (#781549)

    > That’s a testament to the strength of the backlash against 2017’s naked racism, and evidence of how costly being openly racist has become—especially on the internet, where it has doomed entire social media platforms to obscurity. This must be counted as a good thing.

    First it's something like the Daily Stormer, maybe a few right-wing black metal labels, but then it's more harmless right-wing wingnuts like Alex Jones, then it starts moving closer to the center for the likes of Sargon of Akkad.... It's a good thing until the day the deplatforming juggernaut comes for you or someone you care for. But you say the right things, they'd NEVER put you in the gulag! They only put bad people in there!

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday January 03 2019, @06:46PM (8 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday January 03 2019, @06:46PM (#781606) Journal

      I didn't realize that being kicked off Twitter by the invisible hand of the Free Market was the exact same thing as being worked to death in a Gulag.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:22PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:22PM (#781630)

        My favorite part is how this persecution of the alt-right brings all the self-righteous outrage from a certain segment of SN users. However, some alt-right turd murders people with his vehicle and gets appropriately sentenced and these DEPLORABLE fucks defend him by saying he was threatened and all the cops shooting unarmed black people is somehow their fault for looking like "thugs".

        Fuck off you racists shits, your bullshit is going the way of slavery and you should be THANKFUL the rest of the US is NOT fascist otherwise you would be getting put into camps based on your twatter and gab feeds. Instead we choose freedom even though that means letting you fucks advocate anti-freedom, so you're welcome!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @05:32PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @05:32PM (#782559)

          It's only dumb ass white people who think racism is going away while they help racists destroy their own. You are a brainwashed race traitor.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:25PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:25PM (#781635)

        What free market? Those deplatformed fugures had a lot of verified followers, the closest analog to customers.
        Deplatforming them was anti-free market by unilateral political action.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @12:13AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @12:13AM (#781791)

          Wedding cake bakers are deplatforming gays!

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @02:30AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @02:30AM (#781858)

            I honestly now appreciate that whole baking debacle, the discrimination against one gay couple has totally paid off in the amount of obvious hypocrisy.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:34PM (2 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:34PM (#781640) Journal

        Only *bad* people get kicked off Twitter, but nice diversion, again

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:21PM (1 child)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:21PM (#781702) Journal

          They didn't get kicked off because they were bad or good. They got kicked off because they're UNPROFITABLE.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @01:15AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @01:15AM (#781824)

            No, because advertisers were pressured. Twitter can just as easily flag the accounts as objectionable content and refuse to serve ads. Many on the left openly call for violence but there's rarely censorship there.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by meustrus on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:39PM

      by meustrus (4961) on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:39PM (#781641)

      Oh no. Republicans are being screwed by corporations that have grown too big to be accountable. If only there were some bigger source of power we could use to put them back in their place.

      Let me get out the world's smallest violin and play them a sad, sad song.

      --
      If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by mobydisk on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:16PM (42 children)

    by mobydisk (5472) on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:16PM (#781556)

    I was genuinely scared when Trump took office that this was going to become a real problem. So now that we can see that calling people out diminishes racist tendencies, can we start treating racism against all groups with the same kind of intolerance that we treat racism against blacks? I understand that, in America, racism against blacks is especially malignant because of the history of slavery. But we should treat all racism the same way. It is all equally abhorrent.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:31PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @05:31PM (#781567)

      Is this a genuine general feeling you are expressing or is there something in particular you are referring to? Or is this more of the same right-wing attacks on affirmative action to maintain the status quo? Or worse, the latest rage in pushing for government endorsement of specific religions under the guise of "religious freedom"?

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by exaeta on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:15PM

        by exaeta (6957) on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:15PM (#781697) Homepage Journal
        Two wrongs do not make a right. Attacks on affirmative action are attacks against racism. They are the same thing, affirmative action is racist.
        --
        The Government is a Bird
    • (Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:10PM (6 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:10PM (#781618) Journal

      There haven't been too many black folks shooting up white churches, lately. I say we focus on the violent assholes first.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:15PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:15PM (#781624)

        Egypt?
        To be fair though, they are more likely to kidnap Christians to force convert them to islam to be married against their will. Why kill your enemies when you can rape them for decades and force them to breed for you.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:24PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:24PM (#781633)

          That is a different country and most of the middle east is considered pretty backward when it comes to human rights. Sounds more like you're trying to throw a pity party because you don't want to address the actual problems.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:27PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:27PM (#782160)

            Careful who you're calling "backward", backward boy!

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:30PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:30PM (#781638)

        They commit plenty of violent crime on the daily.
        It doesn't get reported on the national news. In total, the amount of people they kill dwarfs the famed mass murderers. Simple crime, the tortoise that wins the race for killing instead of the hare of the mass murderer.

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by mobydisk on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:46PM (1 child)

        by mobydisk (5472) on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:46PM (#781739)

        How about we focus on the violent assholes first REGARDLESS OF WHAT COLOR THEIR SKIN IS. This focus on the race of the perpetrator is detracting us from what is important. I have no idea what particular shooting

        The press exaggerates race-on-race violence to stirs up ratings. [americanprogress.org] We even have a President who lies about racial violence. [politifact.com] The majority of murders in America are not racially motivated. But people get so stuck on the race aspect that they completely miss the real causes: we aren't educating kids, we aren't teaching them right from wrong, we aren't preventing the drug addictions, and we aren't holding fathers accountable to their marriages.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @05:37PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @05:37PM (#782561)

          "we aren't educating kids, we aren't teaching them right from wrong, we aren't preventing the drug addictions, and we aren't holding fathers accountable to their marriages."

          and let me guess: this is not governments fault and we need more government to fix these societal ills?

    • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:14PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:14PM (#781622)

      No. Blacks are the holy objects of worship and veneration. All must bow before their holiness.

      White is evil, horrible, wicked. White is not okay. To be born white is to be a white supremacist and a Nazi. Whites must be done away with, fast or slow, but done away with. Replaced by the holy Blacks and the slightly less holy Hispanics.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:22PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:22PM (#781631)

        the matrix has you

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:33PM (27 children)

      by Thexalon (636) on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:33PM (#781639)

      First off, you like a lot of people are mixing up your terminology. A quick primer on a bunch of related but different concepts:
      - Racism is the idea that says that we can divide the population up based on skin color and hair type and eye shape and sometimes language dialects and from nothing more than that draw useful conclusions about an individual's character and abilities. The concept of "race" as something that exists is part and parcel of this way of thinking. Lots of people who aren't burning crosses or wearing swastikas or saying racial slurs believe in racism. If you've ever put someone's apparent racial background into your description of somebody when their racial identity isn't relevant (e.g. "my black friend"), you're at least somewhat thinking in terms of racism.

      - Racial stereotypes are the (often false) conclusions drawn about the contents of individual's character and abilities based on their apparent race. If you find yourself thinking things like "Asians are good at math", you're engaged in racial stereotyping. Or if you look at a person who seems like they're black, and they tell you they're a musician, if you assume they're doing hip-hop or R&B rather than classical or country, you're thinking with racial stereotypes.

      - Racial discrimination is the making of decisions based on racial stereotypes. For example, when a cop sees a black person and in the absence of any evidence of criminal behavior assumes that that person is a dangerous felon and acts on that assumption, that's racial discrimination. Or when a company (which I quit shortly after this incident) refused to even consider a candidate for a programming position solely because he was Indian, that's racial discrimination.

      - Systemic racism is racial discrimination in an organized way. For instance, banks who had an unspoken policy of giving only subprime mortgages to black people even if they were qualified for prime-rate mortgages. Or Levittown contractually obligating all purchasers of homes agree to only sell their homes to white people. Or the renaming of cannabis to "marijuana" to make it sound more Hispanic and then making it illegal (specifically citing racial stereotypes in the push to make it illegal) while the more dangerous tobacco remains totally legal.

      - Racial terrorism is the kind of stuff the KKK, Neo-Nazis, and others under the "alt-right" sometimes do, namely kill and injure and threaten people based either on their race or their opposition to racial discrimination. This can include actions that are not explicitly violent: For instance, calling the cops on someone for totally legal activities because of their race can get the people you're calling about beaten or killed, and those calling the cops are often well aware of this. Racial slurs can also fall into this category: If some Good Old Boy from a small town in Mississippi calls somebody by the n-word, the person he's calling by that name will (probably correctly) interpret that as a threat of violence.

      Now to address the thing I think you're trying to insinuate without actually saying so is that you believe that affirmative action is racism against white people. It isn't, or at least isn't intended to be: The idea of affirmative action is that an institution attempts to counteract the effects of racial discrimination by actively choosing to factor in racial discrimination when evaluating people's character and actions. For instance, if racial discrimination in employment forced your parents to do nasty work for lousy pay, and racial discrimination in housing forced them to live in a bad part of town with lousy public schools, then it's no surprise that your SAT/ACT scores will be lower than somebody whose parents were able to get paid much better and live in the nice suburbs and/or send their kids to a nice private school, even if you're smarter and better than the suburbanite, so college admissions officers can and do factor that in when deciding who to admit. Those affirmative action systems could probably stand to be refined so that as racial discrimination gets reduced in other areas of life the degree affirmative action counteracts that also gets adjusted.

      As for "callout culture", it can combat racial stereotyping and non-systemic racial discrimination by shaming people who commit those acts. It does approximately nothing about racial terrorists (the racial terrorists know that's exactly what they are and don't apologize for it), systemic racism (which is more the product of organizational decisions than individual decisions and often can't be fixed by one person no matter how well-intentioned), or racism (because that's an ingrained pattern of thought).

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 0, Troll) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:52PM (3 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 03 2019, @07:52PM (#781647) Journal

        Let's simplify that a bit.

        Racism is an institutional system by the more physically powerful "race". Note the "-ism" in there. Individually, one is a bigot. Anybody can be a bigot.

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 4, Informative) by Thexalon on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:02PM (1 child)

          by Thexalon (636) on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:02PM (#781686)

          That is incorrect. Racism, like all "-isms", is a belief system. What you're talking about is "systemic racism" or "institutional racism".

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
          • (Score: 0, Disagree) by fustakrakich on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:37PM

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:37PM (#781714) Journal

            is a belief system

            Exactly! It is systemic, institutionalized. Racism is an institution. A victim of racism can still be a bigot, but he is not racist. That term applies the aggressive institution and the people who support it.

            --
            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:03PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:03PM (#781688)

          That's not the definition of racism, it's a left wing definition of racism that is used to justify their blatant racism. [npr.org]

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by exaeta on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:33PM (14 children)

        by exaeta (6957) on Thursday January 03 2019, @09:33PM (#781712) Homepage Journal
        You're actually completely incorrect about the meaning of racism and several related terms.
        • Racism is support of racial discrimination. This support can take the form of social or verbal discrimination (usually legal) or employment discrimination (usually illegal). Thus, a racist person supports racial discrimination of some sort.
        • Racial discrimination is different treatment where race is considered as a factor regarding that treatment. This can include making decisions based on racial stereotypes, but isn't limited to it.
        • Racial terrorism is terrorism based on race. You conclusion that calling some a "nigger" is a form of "terrorism" is fucking absurd. Rude, yes, but terrorism? No, it's not.

        Affirmative action is a form of racial discrimination and thus support of it makes you a racist. It is entirely possible to combat racial disparity without using racial discrimination as a tool, but you (like other racists) fail to escape the black and white fallacy. It's the sort of "us vs them" mentality that doesn't allow you to see there are a significant number of people who want to end racial discrimination who your party (the democrats) have alienated by supporting racist policies like affirmative action. You also fail to recognize the existence of poor white people and rich black people. My neighbor was a black lawyer, who drove fancy cars and everything. Do you think HIS kids deserve bonus points against a white trailer park kid? Do you think they had a harder time being educated? No, they don't. Why fall on racism when merit based selection would provide more benefits?

        --
        The Government is a Bird
        • (Score: 2, Troll) by Thexalon on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:07PM (8 children)

          by Thexalon (636) on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:07PM (#781725)

          The use of a racial slur on its own isn't the problem. The problem is using the word in context that suggests a threat of imminent violence. It's why Jim's name in Huckleberry Finn isn't something that should be censored: Mark Twain isn't likely to attack anybody. It's why Paul Mooney can say the same word without consequences: Everyone listening to him knows he's not likely to attack someone for being black. But if someone who's acting like a wannabe Ted Nugent says it, it's rational to be worried about it, and thus that use of the very same word is a threat. Especially if it's being used in a place where lynching used to be commonplace.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday January 04 2019, @11:23AM (7 children)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday January 04 2019, @11:23AM (#781992) Homepage Journal

            The hell it does. Racial slurs imply no violence unless preceeded by something like "Get the". You're just buying into the whole mean words are violence line of bullshit. At least I hope you're buying into it. If you're not you're deliberately being a disingenuous asshole.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday January 04 2019, @04:06PM (6 children)

              by Thexalon (636) on Friday January 04 2019, @04:06PM (#782077)

              So let's say you're in a neighborhood where almost everybody is black. You're walking down the street minding your own business, when a black guy you don't know who is hanging out on a street corner with a bunch of other guys gestures to you and says "Hey, cracka!" Do you:
              A. Walk right up to him and say "Hey, bro, what's up?"
              B. Cross the street to avoid him and his buddies?
              C. Turn around and hope to leave the area the way you came?
              D. Check to see if your gun is ready to use, if you're carrying?

              If your reaction isn't A or something similar, you responded to the word "cracka" as a threat. Not a high-level threat like pulling out a gun or something, but as a reason to be on your guard because something dangerous might happen.

              --
              The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:05PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:05PM (#782141)

                I'd pick A, but I don't live in your country and I have a friendly smiling attitude.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:18PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:18PM (#782151)

                in the situation you describe there's a whole lot of context you leave out

                the body language of the guy going 'hey cracka' and his group of friends is gonna determine if I consider the situation as a threat or not (do they act like gangbangers or not, are they surrounding me, are they invading my personal space, do they look like they're grabbing a knife/gun in their pocket, ...)

              • (Score: 2, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 04 2019, @06:42PM

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @06:42PM (#782165) Journal

                You seldom say anything outright STUPID but this time you've done it.

                a black guy you don't know

                If this were a black guy that I know pretty well, then A. would be the correct response. If this were a black guy whom I've seen around, but don't know well, then maybe A. is the correct response. But, this is some black guy I've never seen? I have no idea who he is, where he's from, or what he's about? D. is the appropriate response.

                Now, before you yell "DAS RACISSSSS!!!!" - let's put myself in the same position, but all the actors are white, or Hispanic, or Chinese, or (gasp) Native American/Indian. The guy on the corner calls me "asshole" or "sumbitch" or "Yankee" or any number of other insults. Guy I know, I walk up and insult him right back. Guy I've seen but don't know well, I walk up and insult him, or his grandmother, or something like. Guy I have never seen, I'm checking my weapon, and then it's "Yeah shithead, what do you want?"

                On yet another hand - if the guys on the corner are waving ANTIFA signs, there's no need to trade insults. Pull out the weapon, and start blazing away, when the mag runs dry, reload and continue blazing. Likewise, if they are waving NAZI signs - shoot first, leave the insults for their mothers at their funerals.

              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday January 05 2019, @04:04PM

                by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday January 05 2019, @04:04PM (#782527) Homepage Journal

                Depends on my mood. Some days I'd respond with "prairie nigger not cracka" and show them my tribal citizenship card. Other days I'd go with some variation on option one. I don't do "bro" though. They'd probably get something more along the lines of "mornin/afternoon/evenin". I ain't askeert of black folks just because they're black (Really difficult to be when half your town is black. That level of paranoia would be exhausting.) and I paid attention when my mom told me the old "sticks and stones" line.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 2) by exaeta on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:12AM (1 child)

                by exaeta (6957) on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:12AM (#782646) Homepage Journal
                Actually you could interpret "hey cracka" as a rudeness, not necessarily a threat. Maybe a taunt, but that doesn't count as a threat.
                --
                The Government is a Bird
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:46AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:46AM (#782731)

                  And definitely not murder, unless you accelerate, and drag the person from many yards, and flee the scene, because, "cracka". What the ferk is this more or less exaeta smoking?

        • (Score: 1, Troll) by Hawkwind on Friday January 04 2019, @05:23AM (4 children)

          by Hawkwind (3531) on Friday January 04 2019, @05:23AM (#781914)

          Affirmative Action does not require preference to be given. In fact when done well (granted, which is rarely) it can lift all workers. But more importantly, it does not require preference. A good place to start is DOL regs 41-CFR 60-2.

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday January 04 2019, @11:25AM (3 children)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday January 04 2019, @11:25AM (#781994) Homepage Journal

            You're thinking equal opportunity. Affirmative action, as stated directly in the name, requires affirmative actions.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 1, Troll) by Hawkwind on Friday January 04 2019, @08:51PM (2 children)

              by Hawkwind (3531) on Friday January 04 2019, @08:51PM (#782227)

              The affirmative action part under the DOL game is to come up with a plan to diversify. Heck, protected class status can't even be used as a tie-breaker. And it definitely doesn't allow preference.

               

              For labor practice in CA it's a big deal as CA is not allowed to take any action except where it's needed to comply with contractual terms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_California_Proposition_209 [wikipedia.org], the actual measure is a short read if interested). Meaning the most populous state only has affirmative action to the extent in the DOL regs. So yes, affirmative action does not necessarily mean preference.

              • (Score: 4, Insightful) by qzm on Friday January 04 2019, @10:43PM (1 child)

                by qzm (3260) on Friday January 04 2019, @10:43PM (#782272)

                Wow, so much attempt to use complexity to avoid the issue.

                Affirmative action is by definition putting a thumb on the scale to the benefit of the targeted class.
                This is by definition to the detriment of all other classes, and by definition to the detriment of the general population, as it means a LESS qualified applicant is selected, BY DEFINITION.

                Otherwise it would not be needed, you would simply need 'best applicant' protection, which is not affirmative action.

                But no, keep trying to avoid reality to push your racist agenda.

                • (Score: 2) by Hawkwind on Saturday January 05 2019, @03:30AM

                  by Hawkwind (3531) on Saturday January 05 2019, @03:30AM (#782377)

                  Life can be complex. It means in CA we can't give preference but we can create non-economic incentives. Also means we're chasing a limited good, and our wins subtract from the quality available to other states. Prop 209 has had some mighty interesting impacts.

                   

                  But yes, it's not all beautiful. It's amazing how humans with agendas will fight and look for loopholes. Not trying to be legalistic, just pointing out the assumption that AA equals preference isn't like death and taxes.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by mobydisk on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:19PM (4 children)

        by mobydisk (5472) on Thursday January 03 2019, @10:19PM (#781727)

        Now to address the thing I think you're trying to insinuate without actually saying so is that you believe that affirmative action is racism against white people

        WOW, that's not where I was going!

        I see racism against non-blacks all the time, and it's treated like it's socially acceptable. Here's some examples of racism I've seen recently:

        It's not okay to talk about Mexicans as though they are all illegal immigrants who sneak into American to mow lawns without paying taxes. My neighbor, who maybe is Greek(?), was mistaken for a Mexican and told to get out of his own neighborhood. He should not have to tolerate that.

        It's not okay to call black cops "oreos" because they are "white on the inside and black on the outside."

        It's not okay to say that white people are the source of all evil and they want to enslave everyone else in the world. A guy at a gas pump was doing that and as a white guy I hastily finished pumping gas and drove off because he was saying some scary stuff.

        It's not okay to yell "Allāhu akbar!!!" and pretend to throw a grenade.

        • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday January 04 2019, @02:50AM (3 children)

          by Thexalon (636) on Friday January 04 2019, @02:50AM (#781866)

          Sorry, your rhetoric sounded an awful lot like the alt-right guys in this discussion, so I was expecting something more along the lines of "woe is me, poor whitey".

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
          • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:24AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:24AM (#781942)

            If only he could be deplatformed before explaining his position, everything would be right in the world! ikanreed and azuma will get to fancy murder and all bad people will be Nazis.

          • (Score: 2) by mobydisk on Friday January 04 2019, @02:35PM (1 child)

            by mobydisk (5472) on Friday January 04 2019, @02:35PM (#782040)

            Yeah, I was a bit vague in my posting for fear that I would get flamed, and as a result my ambiguity was taken for veiled racism by a few posters, none as balanced or eloquent as yours though. I'm glad there was real discussion though.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:45PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:45PM (#782168)

              The road to hell is paved with good intentions and ambiguity.

      • (Score: 2) by BK on Thursday January 03 2019, @11:00PM (1 child)

        by BK (4868) on Thursday January 03 2019, @11:00PM (#781748)

        So, you had me... I might add religion to language as race components or analogs, but fundamentally ok. Until here:

        Racial terrorism is the kind of stuff the KKK, Neo-Nazis, and others under the "alt-right" sometimes do,

        I challenge you to try again and define Racial Terrorism in terms of the broad types of behaviors that are Racial Terrorism rather than 'Racial Terrorism is bad stuff that these bad people sometimes do'. Speak to the tactics of the KKK and their identity elsewhere. You managed this in your other definitions.

        To be clear: KKK members sometimes breathe. Neo-Nazis sometimes attend marches and rallies. Members of the "alt-right" sometimes "flip the bird" at bad drivers. And everybody sometimes poops [amazon.com]. If you poop, you MIGHT be a racial terrorist.

        You are better than this effort.

        --
        ...but you HAVE heard of me.
        • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday January 04 2019, @02:40AM

          by Thexalon (636) on Friday January 04 2019, @02:40AM (#781863)

          You either didn't read the entire sentence, or you're intentionally pretending that it didn't exist:

          namely kill and injure and threaten people based either on their race or their opposition to racial discrimination

          That is the main activity of these people. Preparing for it, engaging in it, cleaning up the mess afterwords. It's why they exist.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @05:42PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @05:42PM (#782562)

        "is that you believe that affirmative action is racism against white people. It isn't, or at least isn't intended to be: The idea of affirmative action is that an institution attempts to counteract the effects of racial discrimination by actively choosing to factor in racial discrimination when evaluating people's character and actions."

        are you 5 yrs old? no, it's retaliatory discrimination to pander to blacks for votes and it's working great b/c most blacks are racists just like most everyone is racist, even dumb asses who think they aren't.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @12:20AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @12:20AM (#781796)

      That's right!

      it's okay to be white!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @02:17AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @02:17AM (#781851)

        Black lives matter!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @03:10AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @03:10AM (#781873)

          Why?
          More than other people's?

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