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posted by takyon on Friday January 04 2019, @01:38PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the flexitarians dept.

Submitted via IRC for SoyCow1984

Meatless 'Beyond Burgers' come to Carl's Jr. restaurants

The competition in lab-made veggie burgers is heating up. Beyond Meat has brought its burgers to more than 1,000 Carl's Jr. locations in the US, marking its Beyond's largest restaurant deal to date. Order a $6.29 Beyond Famous Star and you can eat a vegetarian (sorry vegans, there's American cheese) burg that tastes much like its conventional beef counterparts. You can also pay $2 to add a Beyond patty to other burgers on the menu. [...] You can already eat Impossible burgers of various sizes at White Castle, Hopdoddy, [and] Umami Burger

The veggie burgers won't be available at Hardee's (a nearly identical fast food chain operated by the same parent company). Sorry, "flexitarians".

Big Beef Prepares For Battle, As Interest Grows In Plant-Based And Lab-Grown Meats

The U.S. meat industry is gigantic, with roughly $200 billion a year in sales, and getting larger. But the industry faces emerging threats on two fronts: plant-based meat substitutes and actual meat grown in labs. Plant-based meat substitutes are a lot more, well, meaty than they used to be. They sear on the grill and even "bleed." They look, taste and feel in the mouth a lot like meat. Savannah Blevin, a server at Charlie Hooper's, an old-school bar and grill in Kansas City, Mo., says the vegetarian Impossible Burgers on the menu are popular with the meat-eating crowd. "I had a vegetarian actually turn it away, because it reminded them so much of meat, they sent it back," says Blevins. "It's delicious," she adds.

The industry that makes these products is taking off, growing 20 percent a year. "Business is booming," says Todd Boyman, co-founder of food company Hungry Planet. "We just can't keep up. We're actually having to expand our production facilities to keep up with the demand that's out there for this type of food."

[...] The meat industry is focused on shaping the regulatory environment for its new competitors, taking into account lessons learned from the rise of plant-based milks.

Previously: Would You Try Silicon Valley's Bloody Plant Burger(s)?
Impossible Foods Just Raised $75 Million for Its Plant-based Burgers
Inside the Strange Science of the Fake Meat that 'Bleeds'
FDA Approves Impossible Burger "Heme" Ingredient; Still Wants to Regulate "Cultured Meat"

Related: U.S. Cattlemen's Association Wants an Official Definition of "Meat"
Missouri Regulates Use of the Word "Meat" by Food Producers


Original Submission

Related Stories

Would You Try Silicon Valley's Bloody Plant Burger(s)? 49 comments

Several startups are trying to take plant-based meat alternatives to a new level. They include Impossible Foods, which has created a meatless burger that contains heme, a molecule that contributes color, taste, and texture to meat:

This summer, diners in New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles will get their hands on a hamburger that's been five years in the making. The burger looks, tastes and smells just like beef — except it's made entirely from plants. It sizzles on the grill and even browns and oozes fat when it cooks. It's the brainchild of former Stanford biochemist Patrick Brown and his research team at Northern California-based Impossible Foods.

[...] It's not the only faux meat company selling bloody plant patties. Last month, Los Angeles-based Beyond Meat made headlines when it released the Beyond Burger, its pea protein burger that sizzles like real meat and "bleeds" beet juice. The burgers quickly sold out after debuting at a Whole Foods in Boulder, Colo. Beyond Meat's investors include Microsoft founder Bill Gates. Gates is also backing Impossible Foods. So is billionaire venture capitalist Vinod Khosla and Google Ventures. All told, the company has raised some $182 million in seed funding. Last year, Impossible Foods turned down Google's offer to buy the company for $200 to $300 million.

The Impossible Burger is more than just peas and carrots smashed together: It's the result of some pretty high-tech research. Brown's team analyzes meat at a molecular level to determine what makes a burger taste, smell and cook the way it does. He wants his burgers to be squishy while raw, then firm up and brown on the grill. He believes everything from an animal's fat tissue to muscle cells can be replicated using plant compounds.

The true test? Making the plant-based substance carcinogenic.


Original Submission

Impossible Foods Just Raised $75 Million for Its Plant-based Burgers 44 comments

Impossible Foods, the six-year-old, Redwood City, Ca.-based company known for its "juicy" meatless burgers, quietly announced $75 million in funding late last week, led by Temasek, with participation from Open Philanthropy, as well as earlier investors Bill Gates, Khosla Ventures and Horizon Ventures.

The company says it isn't providing further financial details but the round brings Impossible's funding to nearly $300 million, including earlier rounds that have included GV, Viking Global Investors and UBS.

Impossible's burgers are made with  soy leghemoglobin, a protein that carries heme, an iron-containing molecule that occurs naturally in every animal and plant.

The company has said it wants to replace a number of animal products with goods engineered from plants, but for now, it seems squarely focused on getting more of its burgers into the world. Part of that strategy involved opening a factory in Oakland, Ca., in May, where it expects to be producing 1 million pounds of ground "plant meat" each month.

Thought the race was on to have us eat insects.


Original Submission

Inside the Strange Science of the Fake Meat that 'Bleeds' 42 comments

From Wired:

WIRED wants to take you on the deepest dive yet into the science behind the Impossible Burger.

Biting into an Impossible Burger is to bite into a future in which humanity has to somehow feed an exploding population and not further imperil the planet with ever more livestock. Because livestock, and cows in particular, go through unfathomable amounts of food and water (up to 11,000 gallons a year per cow) and take up vast stretches of land. And their gastrointestinal methane emissions aren't doing the fight against global warming any favors either (cattle gas makes up 10 percent of greenhouse gas emissions worldwide).

This is the inside story of the engineering of the Impossible Burger, the fake meat on a mission to change the world with one part soy plant, one part genetically engineered yeast—and one part activism. As it happens, though, you can't raise hell in the food supply without first raising a few eyebrows.

U.S. Cattlemen's Association Wants an Official Definition of "Meat" 80 comments

The U.S. Cattlemen's Association has asked the U.S. Department of Agriculture to develop an official definition for terms like "meat" and "beef", as plant-based alternatives to meats continue to grow in popularity and lab-grown/cultured meat may be coming soon:

Companies like Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat are combining plant-based ingredients and science, rather than animals, to create fake-meat burgers and other products that taste like the real thing.

Now U.S. Cattlemen's Association is looking to draw a line in the sand. The association launched what could be the first salvo in a long battle against plant-based foods. Earlier this month, the association filed a 15-page petition with the U.S. Department of Agriculture calling for an official definition for the term "beef," and more broadly, "meat."

"While at this time alternative protein sources are not a direct threat to the beef industry, we do see improper labeling of these products as misleading," said Lia Biondo, the association's policy and outreach director. "Our goal is to head off the problem before it becomes a larger issue."

[...] While these foods are commonly dubbed "fake meat," there's a little more to the meat-substitute market than that. The Good Food Institute, which advocates a sustainable food supply, breaks it down into two categories: clean meat and plant-based meat. Clean meat refers to "meat" grown in a lab from a small amount of animal stem cells. This kind of meat isn't on the market yet, but it's in development. Plant-based meat is anything that mimics traditional meat but is made mainly using plant ingredients.

Here's an idea: define "meat" for the Cattlemen's Association, then tax it with an exemption for "lab-grown meat".

Related: Lab-Grown Pork Closer to Reality
Lab-Grown Chicken (and Duck) Could be on the Menu in 4 Years
Inside the Strange Science of the Fake Meat that 'Bleeds'
Impossible Foods Just Raised $75 Million for Its Plant-based Burgers
Cargill, Bill Gates, Richard Branson Backed Memphis Meats Expects Meat From Cells in Stores by 2021
Meat Tax Proposed for Sake of Human and Environmental Health.


Original Submission

FDA Approves Impossible Burger "Heme" Ingredient; Still Wants to Regulate "Cultured Meat" 14 comments

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved soy leghemoglobin as generally recognized as safe (GRAS) for human consumption:

Last August, documents obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request revealed that the FDA hadn't stomached the company's previous GRAS application. The agency concluded that soy leghemoglobin—a protein found in the roots of soybean plants that Impossible Foods harvests from genetically engineered yeast and uses to simulate the taste and bloodiness of meat—had not been adequately tested for safety.

In the application, Impossible Foods argued that the iron-containing protein is equivalent to hemoglobin, an oxygen-carrying protein in red blood cells and commonly consumed in meat. Thus, the protein was safe, the company concluded. It went as far as conducting studies in rats to back up the claim. But the FDA noted that soy leghemoglobin had never been used as an additive before, and the organization wanted data showing that the protein was safe and not an allergen specifically for humans.

[...] At the time, the decision was a searing blow to Impossible Foods, which up until then had fired up the appetites of investors and top chefs alike and savored glowing publicity. Since the company's founding in 2011, big names such as Bill Gates and Google Ventures served up more than $250 million in startup funds, and the impossible patty sizzled on the menus of such high-end restaurants as Momofuku Nishi in New York and Jardinière in San Francisco. The soy leghemoglobin was a big part of that hype, with the company touting it as its "secret sauce."

But the FDA's gut check didn't knock Impossible Foods off the market; it just left a bad taste. In fact, the company wasn't even required to submit its GRAS application to begin with due to the controversial way in which the FDA oversees food additives and GRAS designations. Under the 1938 Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act and the 1958 Food Additives Amendment, the FDA allows food companies and their hired consultants to internally test and determine a GRAS designation of a potential new additive all on their own. They can start using it without getting approval from the FDA or even notifying the agency. The FDA only steps in after the fact if problems arise.

Impossible Foods' FAQ says "the heme molecule in plant-based heme is atom-for-atom identical to the heme molecule found in meat". Heme is a component of soy leghemoglobin consisting of an iron atom bound in a porphyrin ring.

Meanwhile, the FDA and U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) are continuing to fight over which agency will have jurisdiction over "cultured meat" (i.e. lab-grown animal cells for human consumption):

Missouri Regulates Use of the Word "Meat" by Food Producers 37 comments

Missouri has prohibited producers of meat alternatives, such as lab-grown/cultured meat and plant-based fake meats, from using the term "meat" to describe products not derived from harvested livestock or poultry:

On Tuesday, Missouri becomes the first state in the country to have a law on the books that prohibits food makers to use the word "meat" to refer to anything other than animal flesh. This takes aim at manufacturers of what has been dubbed fake or non-traditional meat. Clean meat -- also known as lab-grown meat -- is made of cultured animal tissue cells, while plant-based meat is generally from ingredients such as soy, tempeh and seitan.

The state law forbids "misrepresenting a product as meat that is not derived from harvested production livestock or poultry." Violators may be fined $1,000 and imprisoned for a year.

[...] The Missouri Cattlemen's Association, which worked to get the state law passed, has cited shopper confusion and protecting local ranchers as reasons for the legislation. "The big issue was marketing with integrity and...consumers knowing what they're getting," said Missouri Cattlemen's Association spokesman Mike Deering. "There's so much unknown about this."

Turtle Island Foods, which makes "Tofurky", has sued the state:

Plant-Based "Impossible Burger" Coming to Every Burger King Location 40 comments

The Impossible Whopper is coming to every Burger King in America next week

Burger King will start selling its meatless Whopper across the United States on August 8, the biggest rollout for Impossible's plant-based product.

The burger chain has been selling the Impossible Whopper, featuring a meatless patty made by Impossible Foods, in a few markets in the United States since April. It first tested the product in St. Louis before announcing in May that it would offer the Impossible Whopper nationally this year.

Interest in plant-based protein has surged as many people try to reduce their meat intake for health or environmental reasons. US retail sales of plant-based foods have grown 11% in the past year, according to a July report from trade group Plant Based Foods Association and the Good Food Institute, a nonprofit that supports plant-based businesses.

Previously: Meatless "Beyond Burgers" Come to Fast Food Restaurants
Burger King Adds Impossible Vegan Burger To Menu

Related: Impossible Foods Just Raised $75 Million for Its Plant-based Burgers
Inside the Strange Science of the Fake Meat that 'Bleeds'
FDA Approves Impossible Burger "Heme" Ingredient; Still Wants to Regulate "Cultured Meat"
Following IPO of Beyond Meat, Tyson Foods Plans Launch of its Own Meatless Products


Original Submission

Impossible Foods CEO Ponders Fake Imaginary Meat 60 comments

Impossible CEO says it can make a meat 'unlike anything that you've had before'

Plant-based meat products are bigger than ever, with the fast-food industry, grocery stores, and upscale restaurants coming on board. A recent Nielsen report found that plant-based meat alternative purchases went up 279.8 percent last week after Americans were instructed to stay home during the novel coronavirus pandemic.

Impossible Foods, a company that develops plant-based meat products, says its mission is to someday replace the incumbent meat industry entirely, stating that, from a mission standpoint, a sale only has value if it comes at the expense of the sale of an animal-derived product.

But what if plant-based meat wasn't just a substitute for an already-existing marketplace, and instead, it started to make meat that has never existed?

On this week's Vergecast podcast, Impossible Foods CEO Patrick Brown talks to Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel about how this impossible meat could be a possibility in the future, even if it doesn't make sense for the company right now.

https://dilbert.com/strip/1992-04-08

Previously: Impossible Burger Lands in Some California Grocery Stores
Burger King Grilled by Vegan Over Impossible Burger "Meat Contamination"

Related: 'Soylent' Dawkins? Atheist Mulls 'Taboo Against Cannibalism' Ending as Lab-Grown Meat Improves
Meatless "Beyond Burgers" Come to Fast Food Restaurants
Swedish Behavioral Scientist Suggests Eating Humans to 'Save the Planet'
Discriminating Diets Of Meat-Eating Dinosaurs
Meat Industry PR Campaign Bashes Plant-Based Meat Alternatives
Unilever Pushing for Plant-Based Meat
Judge Serves Up Sizzling Rebuke of Arkansas' Anti-Veggie-Meat Labeling Law


Original Submission

Burger King Grilled by Vegan Over Impossible Burger "Meat Contamination" 84 comments

Lawsuit claims Burger King's Impossible Whoppers are contaminated by meat

Burger King was sued on Monday by a vegan customer who accused the fast-food chain of contaminating its meatless "Impossible" Whoppers by cooking them on the same grills as its traditional meat burgers.

In a proposed class action, Phillip Williams said he bought an Impossible Whopper, a plant-based alternative to Burger King's regular Whopper, at an Atlanta drive-through, and would not have paid a premium price had he known the cooking would leave it "coated in meat by-products."

The lawsuit filed in Miami federal court seeks damages for all U.S. purchasers of the Impossible Whopper, and an injunction requiring Burger King to "plainly disclose" that Impossible Whoppers and regular burgers are cooked on the same grills.

[...] Its website describes the Impossible Burger as "100% Whopper, 0% Beef," and adds that "for guests looking for a meat-free option, a non-broiler method of preparation is available upon request."

Also at Boing Boing.

Previously: Meatless "Beyond Burgers" Come to Fast Food Restaurants
Burger King Adds Impossible Vegan Burger To Menu
Plant-Based "Impossible Burger" Coming to Every Burger King Location

Related: Inside the Strange Science of the Fake Meat that 'Bleeds'
FDA Approves Impossible Burger "Heme" Ingredient; Still Wants to Regulate "Cultured Meat"
Following IPO of Beyond Meat, Tyson Foods Plans Launch of its Own Meatless Products
Impossible Burger Lands in Some California Grocery Stores


Original Submission

McDonald's to Introduce Meatless "McPlant" Burger 57 comments

McDonald's unveils McPlant line, which includes meatless patty co-created by Beyond Meat

McDonald's will test a meat-free burger in several markets next year as it adds plant-based menu offerings, which it has coined "McPlant."

International President Ian Borden said that McPlant was created "by McDonald's and for McDonald's." Borden said that the McPlant line could also include chicken substitutes.

McDonald's has not yet disclosed the supplier for the line. A company spokesperson declined to identify their supplier but said that McDonald's will not be manufacturing the products.

But a spokesperson for Beyond Meat said in a statement to CNBC that the company co-created the plant-based patty that will be available as part of the McPlant line. Shares of Beyond rose as much as 4% in afternoon trading after falling as much as 6% earlier on Monday. The stock, which was briefly halted for volatility in both morning and afternoon trading, is currently down less than 1%.

See also: Beyond Meat shares rise on news that it collaborated with McDonald's on the McPlant options
Beyond Meat earnings miss big on declining food service and consumer demand

Beyond Meat's partnership with McDonald's to develop the McPlant burger wasn't enough to keep shares from collapsing after the company posted third-quarter earnings that fell far below analysts' expectations.

The big miss sent shares tumbling nearly 29% in after markets closed Monday after reporting it generated $94.4 million in revenues and a loss of 28 cents per share versus the $132.8 million in revenue and 5 cents per share loss that analysts had expected.

Previously: Meatless "Beyond Burgers" Come to Fast Food Restaurants
Following IPO of Beyond Meat, Tyson Foods Plans Launch of its Own Meatless Products
Plant-Based "Impossible Burger" Coming to Every Burger King Location
Meat Industry PR Campaign Bashes Plant-Based Meat Alternatives
Bot Orders $18,752 of McSundaes Every 30 Minutes to Find If Machines are Working


Original Submission

Meat Industry PR Campaign Bashes Plant-Based Meat Alternatives 58 comments

Plant-based burgers are "ultra-processed" like dog food, meat-backed ads say

A public-relations firm backed by meat producers has unleashed a savage marketing campaign that claims plant-based meat alternatives are unhealthy, "ultra-processed imitations" similar to dog food.

The campaign rolled out in recent weeks from the industry-funded firm Center for Consumer Freedom, according to The New York Times. So far, it has included full-page ads and opinion pieces in mainstream newspapers, including The New York Times, USA Today, and The Wall Street Journal. All the marketing material raises health concerns about trendy meat alternatives, such as the Impossible Burger and Beyond Burger.

One ad posed the question "What's hiding in your plant-based meat?" Another directed readers to take the quiz "Veggie Burger or Dog Food?"

In an op-ed, the managing director of the Center for Consumer Freedom, Will Coggin, labeled meat alternatives as "ultra-processed" foods and noted that a recent study led by the researchers at the National Institutes of Health linked ultra-processed foods to weight gain.

The negative marketing campaign comes amid soaring popularity of meat alternatives, which threaten to slice into the meat market's sales and profits. In recent months, big players in the meat industry had tried a different—some might say hypocritical—tactic to compete with the new comers—that is, they released their own lines of meat alternatives. Now, the industry wants consumers to think such alternatives are unhealthy.

Older stories:


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @01:54PM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @01:54PM (#782024)

    The nutritional profile looks nothing like meat, eg it has carbs but no cholesterol:
    https://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/beyond-meat-beyond-burger-674983745 [myfitnesspal.com]
    https://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/780241962 [myfitnesspal.com]

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday January 04 2019, @02:06PM (7 children)

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday January 04 2019, @02:06PM (#782026) Journal

      I wouldn't say "nothing" like meat. It has about the same amount of fat and protein, and the amount of carbs is modest (a lot less than what is added by a bun).

      I notice that the 4 oz. beyond burger has 30% DV of iron, vs. about 10-11% DV for 4 oz. of 70/30 or 95% lean ground beef (according to Google). The company must be going "HAM" with that blood-like "heme" substance. And while that stuff is supposed to make the burger juicy, the images I saw of the Carl's Jr. burger looked pretty dry.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday January 04 2019, @03:44PM

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday January 04 2019, @03:44PM (#782068) Journal

        Oops, I mixed up Beyond Meat [wikipedia.org] with Impossible Foods [wikipedia.org]. No heme in the former AFAIK.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @04:19PM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @04:19PM (#782083)

        There should be no carbs in meat, its like the whole point of eating it.

        • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday January 04 2019, @04:40PM (4 children)

          by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday January 04 2019, @04:40PM (#782096) Journal

          Then don't buy it. But 5g/4oz is not a lot of carbs and unless you are choosing not to eat the bun the burger comes on, it does not make a big difference.

          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @05:13PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @05:13PM (#782111)

            Yes, it is wise to skip the bun.

            • (Score: 2) by stretch611 on Saturday January 05 2019, @01:14AM (2 children)

              by stretch611 (6199) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 05 2019, @01:14AM (#782340)

              So eat meat that really isn't meat.

              Then skip the bun to avoid a bunch of carbs.

              Forget about the cheese to avoid pissing off the vegans.

              DAMN!!! I'd rather eat my sneaker.
              BUT!!! my sneaker is leather and thats going to piss off more people because now we slaughter all these cattle just for shoes and comfortable chairs while letting the meat rot away.

              GIVE ME BACK MY DAMN CHEESEBURGER WITH REAL MEAT!!!.

              --
              I think; therefore, I am vaccinated.
              • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @04:34AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @04:34AM (#782400)

                I was saying just eat real meat since they added bad stuff (carbs) and removed good stuff (cholesterol) from the fake meat.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @07:20AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @07:20AM (#782432)

                Wow! You just make up a lot of non-existent problems, don't you.

  • (Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Friday January 04 2019, @02:10PM (8 children)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Friday January 04 2019, @02:10PM (#782029)

    The U.S. meat industry is gigantic, with roughly $200 billion a year in sales,

    So how do production costs compare? You know the only thing big companies care about is profits. If verggie burgers are cheaper to produce and they can convince people to eat these instead, how much more profit is that?

    more than 1,000 Carl's Jr. locations

    Served with a delicious Brawndo beverage. It has electrolytes!

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday January 04 2019, @02:18PM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday January 04 2019, @02:18PM (#782035) Journal

      Served with a delicious Brawndo beverage. It has electrolytes!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2qpuB_stEU [youtube.com]

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Friday January 04 2019, @04:11PM (5 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @04:11PM (#782078) Journal

      For those who prefer real meat I would point out that Soylent Green is made from all natural ingredients!

      --
      This Christmas season is the most likely to see Missile Tow instead of large artillery pieces being toed.
      • (Score: 2) by insanumingenium on Friday January 04 2019, @04:54PM

        by insanumingenium (4824) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @04:54PM (#782103) Journal

        How are we gonna Make Room for all these soy and lentil steaks?

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by fyngyrz on Friday January 04 2019, @05:32PM (3 children)

        by fyngyrz (6567) on Friday January 04 2019, @05:32PM (#782121) Journal

        For those who prefer real meat I would point out that Soylent Green is made from all natural ingredients!

        Only in that Hollywood-damaged movie adaptation. In the original source, the book "Make Room, Make Room" by Harry Harrison, Soylent Green was made out of algae, and the idea that they were feeding X people to Y people was not even on the table.

        And I have to tell you, the book was way, way better than the movie.

        But that's Hollywood for you. The penultimate cinema moment that cops to this is in the film "The Majestic", where the writer is sitting at a meeting, and some (unfortunately not a caricature of a) film executive is saying something like "Let's add a dog! Everyone likes dogs!"

        --
        Hollywood: Where good books go to be abused.

        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday January 04 2019, @06:47PM (2 children)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @06:47PM (#782170) Journal

          The movie version of soylent green's ingredients is much more likely, IMO, to become reality.
          Disclaimer: saw movie several times, have not read the book.

          Simple economics. It creates a market demand for the, er . . . um . . . "harvesting" of the poor in order to feed the rich who can pay.

          If you think that sounds too callous, just look at
          * the currently increasing wealth divide
          * human organ transplants and the temptation to prioritize the wealthy
          * overpopulation
          * how big corporations and their directors behave
          * how rich people behave, especially towards people slightly less rich

          --
          This Christmas season is the most likely to see Missile Tow instead of large artillery pieces being toed.
          • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday January 04 2019, @08:22PM (1 child)

            by tangomargarine (667) on Friday January 04 2019, @08:22PM (#782219)

            * human organ transplants and the temptation to prioritize the wealthy

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong#Organ_harvesting [wikipedia.org]

            The Kilgour-Matas report[187][190][191] was published in July 2006, and concluded that "the government of China and its agencies in numerous parts of the country, in particular hospitals but also detention centers and 'people's courts', since 1999 have put to death a large but unknown number of Falun Gong prisoners of conscience." The report, which was based mainly on circumstantial evidence, called attention to the extremely short wait times for organs in China—one to two weeks for a liver compared with 32.5 months in Canada—noting that this was indicative of organs being procured on demand. It also tracked a significant increase in the number of annual organ transplants in China beginning in 1999, corresponding with the onset of the persecution of Falun Gong. Despite very low levels of voluntary organ donation, China performs the second-highest number of transplants per year.

            --
            "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
            • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday January 04 2019, @09:45PM

              by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @09:45PM (#782248) Journal

              Capitalism will catch up. It always does. The problem is with humans, not the economic organization.

              Oh, didn't you read about 2/3 of the way through your mobile phone contract on page 229 it says that AT&T or its authorized agents can sneak in the middle of the night and harvest your and your family's organs -- unless your ISP has already gotten them first.

              --
              This Christmas season is the most likely to see Missile Tow instead of large artillery pieces being toed.
    • (Score: 3, Funny) by tangomargarine on Friday January 04 2019, @04:35PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Friday January 04 2019, @04:35PM (#782092)

      Carl's Jr: Fuck You, I'm Eating

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday January 04 2019, @02:38PM

    by jdavidb (5690) on Friday January 04 2019, @02:38PM (#782041) Homepage Journal
    I used to enjoy Subway's meatless patty, which I always thought was very good and reminded me of a fast food chicken fried steak. This was as far back as 1998. Unfortunately the availability got worse and worse until most individual Subway franchises had never even heard of it.
    --
    ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
  • (Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @02:38PM (14 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @02:38PM (#782042)

    I long for the days when we only had simple words for people like this; "twat" for example.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday January 04 2019, @02:52PM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday January 04 2019, @02:52PM (#782043) Journal

      "Marketers".

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Friday January 04 2019, @02:59PM (1 child)

      by PiMuNu (3823) on Friday January 04 2019, @02:59PM (#782047)

      As far as I can tell, flexitarian just means does not adhere to fads.

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by Gaaark on Friday January 04 2019, @04:42PM

        by Gaaark (41) on Friday January 04 2019, @04:42PM (#782099) Journal

        Fads? I've already moved on to Beyond Tide Pods!

        Moist AND filling!

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @04:33PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @04:33PM (#782091)

      like "cis", now we have a word for "normal person"

      • (Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Saturday January 05 2019, @02:48PM (2 children)

        by bobthecimmerian (6834) on Saturday January 05 2019, @02:48PM (#782503)

        The term 'flexitarians' is a joke. But there's a valid reason for 'cis'. Calling someone that identifies with their birth sex 'normal' automatically implies that a trans or non-binary person is 'abnormal'. So it's implicitly an insult to them. Using 'cis' instead removes the normal vs. abnormal connection.

        There's no similar justification for 'flexitarian'. A person that eats meat sometimes and veggie burgers other times is still simply an omnivore.

        • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Saturday January 05 2019, @05:17PM (1 child)

          by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Saturday January 05 2019, @05:17PM (#782553) Journal

          Sorry, but while flexitarian is often used as joke, it actually identifies a very common and arguably important philosophy about eating.

          There are all sorts of reasons to cut down on meat consumption -- environmental reasons, moral reasons, health concerns, cost concerns, etc. You may or may not agree with such reasons, but lots of people have them. I know a lot of people who deliberately consume mostly vegetarian diets but occasionally eat meat rarely or in specific circumstances (e.g., if it's humanely raised or on special occasions or only with unusual/special dishes or whatever). Arguably there are good health reasons for trying to consume a mostly plant-based diet without demonizing meat.

          (For long stretches of my life I only tended to eat meat a couple times per week -- or as a garnish or added flavor element rather than a main dish. This started out because of budget concerns but then I realized I actually like vegetarian food. Then I read nutritional and health arguments that seemed to also be valid reasons to keep doing it once my budget was no longer a concern. I don't personally use the word "flexitarian" because it sounds stupid... But I guess I probably have been one at times.)

          We don't have a word for someone whose diet is mostly plant-based but occasionally supplemented with meat. "Omnivore" doesn't connote this. Flexitarian sounds a bit silly, but given the number of people with such diets we should have a word for it.

          • (Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Monday January 07 2019, @06:14PM

            by bobthecimmerian (6834) on Monday January 07 2019, @06:14PM (#783276)

            Well, I understand and support cutting back meat consumption for environmental, health, or ethical reasons. I'm just a little uncomfortable with terms that mean 'mostly vegetarian' because it is difficult to quantify. I can call myself a vegetarian and I might be lying. But if I'm not lying, you know exactly how much meat I consume. If I call myself a flexitarian maybe I switched from eating meat 14 times a week to eating meat 10 times a week - but maybe the woman in the next apartment has a taste for spaghetti or bean salads or something, and she doesn't even identify as a flexitarian but she eats meat 5 times a week.

    • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by FatPhil on Saturday January 05 2019, @01:58AM (6 children)

      by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Saturday January 05 2019, @01:58AM (#782356) Homepage
      It's just a long way of spelling "frauds". Wannabee vegetarians who don't have the conviction of actually eating vegetarian, but want some of the cachet they perceive is available from a claim of so being.
      --
      I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday January 05 2019, @03:24AM (4 children)

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday January 05 2019, @03:24AM (#782374) Journal

        There's nothing wrong with eating both meat and meat substitutes.

        Even if you aren't eating fried tofu patties, you might eat tofu in a Thai salad [itdoesnttastelikechicken.com], for instance. Foods such as black bean burgers are good in their own right (IMO), even if they don't taste like meat. Does some madman out there enjoy a Beyond Meat or an Impossible Foods plant-based burger more than a real hamburger? Possibly. And if they do, they could still eat chicken, pork, fish, etc.

        It would be easier to sympathize with "flexitarians" if the food was cost competitive when compared to meat, e.g. in terms of dollars per kilogram, calories per dollar, and grams of protein per dollar. That doesn't seem to be the case with this $6.29 burger. But if production of these meat substitutes is scaled up, maybe the prices will drop and there won't need to be any more talk about the cachet.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 1, Redundant) by FatPhil on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:22AM (3 children)

          by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:22AM (#782460) Homepage
          > There's nothing wrong with eating both meat and meat substitutes.

          The mother of all counter-arguments, as it's undeniably true. I'd just trying to work out what it's a counterargument to. Which of my statements do you think you are countering?
          --
          I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
      • (Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Saturday January 05 2019, @02:43PM

        by bobthecimmerian (6834) on Saturday January 05 2019, @02:43PM (#782500)

        The term 'flexitarians' is absurd. But as I wrote elsewhere, I think the real value of these meat substitutes is as a transition food. I have friends and relatives that have been vegan for decades, and none of them care for vegan or vegetarian foods that mimic real meats. But for someone accustomed to eating a lot of real meat, this is a ways to make the switch into a vegetarian or vegan diet less of a shock. I have my lentils, nuts, potatoes and onions, etc... etc.. but when I miss the taste of real meat I grab a product like this - provided it doesn't suck. I had my first Beyond Meat burger in November and was impressed.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Arik on Friday January 04 2019, @03:23PM (2 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Friday January 04 2019, @03:23PM (#782057) Journal
    Carl's bought Hardees (from someone else that didn't really know what to do with them) and when it was announced it made perfect sense. Hardees covered areas Carl's didn't, and had a similar, but better, menu. They were going to merge the menus and cover the country. And they did, sort of.

    But the gem of the Hardees menu were always the steak biscuits. And for whatever reason, Carl's brought over 'Hardees biscuits' but not those. Pretty stupid of them, and pretty lame.

    And now? A veggie burger, but only at Carl's, not at Hardees. Another facepalm. Yes, I'm sure the demand is higher for this in the west than the east, but that's not the point. There IS a market in the east, and even if it's a smaller portion of the regional market it's also underserved. Put it on the menu back east too, and you'll attract customers that otherwise wouldn't come in the door, and on top of that the regulars will slowly start giving it a try and some will like it.

    Assuming it isn't completely awful, at least, and if it is it won't do too well in the west either.
    --
    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday January 04 2019, @03:42PM (1 child)

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday January 04 2019, @03:42PM (#782065) Journal

      Carl's was founded in California and has a lot of restaurants there. Beyond Meat was also founded in California.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 2) by Arik on Friday January 04 2019, @03:47PM

        by Arik (4543) on Friday January 04 2019, @03:47PM (#782071) Journal
        Yes, Carl's was founded in Cali and grew out from there, while Hardees comes from North Carolina and grew (further) from there.

        Carl's still covers a lot of western area where steak biscuits would sell very well, if they offered them.
        --
        If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
  • (Score: 2) by Snow on Friday January 04 2019, @03:43PM (7 children)

    by Snow (1601) on Friday January 04 2019, @03:43PM (#782067) Journal

    It's called Beyond meat too. Maybe from the same producer?

    I've heard from a couple people that have tried them. They all say they are really good.

    Still kinda freaks me out though.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by takyon on Friday January 04 2019, @03:50PM (4 children)

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday January 04 2019, @03:50PM (#782072) Journal

      What's going to freak you out more, a hyperrealistic plant-based burger (and Impossible Foods is probably closer to that than Beyond Meat) or cultured meat made from animal cell lines?

      Both have their place (and there are good plant-based burgers/patties that don't attempt to mimic meat closely), but cultured meat ought to eventually replace nearly all use of livestock, if it can be made cheaply enough.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @04:24PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @04:24PM (#782085)

        It should never replace real meat because they arent going to be able to help themselves and try to "improve it" by eg removing the cholesterol.

        • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday January 04 2019, @04:37PM (2 children)

          by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday January 04 2019, @04:37PM (#782093) Journal

          It's in all animal cells, and cultured meat is animal cells. Good luck to them.

          If there is no monopoly, you should be able to buy almost any kind of cultured meat that you want.

          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @05:17PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @05:17PM (#782115)

            Here it is, they claim the cultured meat is healthier because it is low in cholesterol:
            http://www.innocent-meat.com/ [innocent-meat.com]

            • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday January 04 2019, @05:30PM

              by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday January 04 2019, @05:30PM (#782119) Journal

              They are asking for cash for their startup, and don't provide any details about their process.

              For all we know, they could just be using a type of animal that is naturally low in cholesterol. Or they could not be including fat cells (a known problem for the very first cultured meat), or very few of them.

              Finally, low cholesterol does not mean zero cholesterol.

              --
              [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday January 04 2019, @04:58PM (1 child)

      by Gaaark (41) on Friday January 04 2019, @04:58PM (#782107) Journal

      I looove A&W and went to try the beyond meat, but they ran out quickly.
      Will have to try again.

      I love A&W because when I order a teen burger without a bun, they wrap it in lettuce (my burger becomes almost a salad!) and put it on a real plate with metal utensils and the fries go in a metal basket and I have my rootbeer in a frosted glass-- ALL reusable. When I leave, there is very little garbage. Put that against a McDonald's crap meal where everything is garbage (even the food).

      Go online and get coupons
      Awcoupon.ca

      Love them!

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:35PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @06:35PM (#782162)

        Love them!

        Little pushy today are we?

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @03:53PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @03:53PM (#782073)

    So, for those of us who remain true to our evolutionary roots and east as omnivores, do vegetarians count as prey animals like cattle? And if so, would eating them be cannibalism, or just distasteful?

    /ducks

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday January 04 2019, @04:12PM (1 child)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @04:12PM (#782079) Journal

      Soylent Green is made from all natural ingredients.

      --
      This Christmas season is the most likely to see Missile Tow instead of large artillery pieces being toed.
      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday January 04 2019, @05:00PM

        by Gaaark (41) on Friday January 04 2019, @05:00PM (#782108) Journal

        Whereas SoylentNews is people!
        Mmmmmmm......

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday January 04 2019, @04:30PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Friday January 04 2019, @04:30PM (#782089)

      So, for those of us who remain true to our evolutionary roots and east as omnivores

      I prefer to west as an omnivore

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @10:10PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @10:10PM (#782256)

      Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw recently: "Save an animal, eat a vegetarian."

    • (Score: 2) by stretch611 on Saturday January 05 2019, @01:03AM

      by stretch611 (6199) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 05 2019, @01:03AM (#782336)

      Sadly, sometimes youtube clips are horrible... (I was hoping to get the last two as a single clip.)

      All your vegan eating answers here...

      Lion that eats Tofu. [youtube.com]

      Lrrr eaes a hippie [youtube.com]
      That hippie is starting to kick in... [youtube.com]

      --
      I think; therefore, I am vaccinated.
  • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday January 04 2019, @05:50PM (1 child)

    by Thexalon (636) on Friday January 04 2019, @05:50PM (#782136)

    This is stupid, for 2 reasons:
    1. It still won't get me into a Carl's Jr voluntarily. I have standards when it comes to food.

    2. If they want to offer a veggie burger, there are lots of tastier (and cheaper-to-make) options that aren't trying to pretend to be meat. As in, I'd much rather have a black bean burger that's being honest about not being meat than I would any of the meat-imitation products out there, and even some of the meat-eaters I know will sometimes pick one of those over a beef burger. If you really want the flavor of beef, by far the most efficient way to get that flavor is to eat beef.

    --
    The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @02:36AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @02:36AM (#782363)

      I think there's room in the market for transition foods. The vegans and vegetarians I know that have been vegan or vegetarian for a few years or longer typically don't care, they'll go right for the black bean burger, falafel, stir fry of a bunch of different root vegetables, lentils, etc... They have no interest in something that tastes like roasted animal flesh.

      But for people like me that are accustomed to having real meat at two meals a day, sevent days a week, then meat-like substitutes make the switch to vegetarianism easier. I've had some tasty black bean burgers. But the Beyond Meat burger tastes genuinely good to someone who likes beef - maybe not as good as the best beef burgers I've had, but flat out better than the beef burgers from any fast food restaurant and most chain restaurants and diners. Right now my freezer has a mix of black bean burgers, quinoa and roast vegetable burgers, and Beyond Meat burgers so I can get a meat-like taste when the mood strikes. Unfortunately at the moment the Beyond Meat burgers are far more expensive than their meat cousins at $12 per pound. I'm lucky enough to be able to fit that into my budget, but I understand that many other people can't. But hopefully as the product gets more popular it will get cheaper.

      Most of the other attempts at meat-like vegetarian and vegan products I've seen from Morningstar, Boca, Gardenburger, and a few other brands are horrid. Their veggie burgers that don't pretend to mimic meat range from adequate to great, but their attempts at meat substitutes are horrid. Beyond Meat passes muster. (Sorry if I sound like a shill. But I discovered the things in late November and have been eating at least two a week since.)

  • (Score: 2) by digitalaudiorock on Friday January 04 2019, @07:57PM

    by digitalaudiorock (688) on Friday January 04 2019, @07:57PM (#782209)

    I'm pretty sure that Arby's cracked the whole "meatless" thing many many years ago...

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @10:19PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 04 2019, @10:19PM (#782261)

    If the khazar jews were left to it they would rename everything the opposite of what it really is. Left is right, up is down, less is more, war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.

    Thankfully it is not up to them and will never be. They will be the burger patty long before that happens.

    But those satanic khazar jews are sure going to try.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by FatPhil on Saturday January 05 2019, @02:07AM

      by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Saturday January 05 2019, @02:07AM (#782358) Homepage
      That's not how you spell "seitan", you ignoramus.
      --
      I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
  • (Score: 2) by ilsa on Friday January 04 2019, @10:29PM (1 child)

    by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 04 2019, @10:29PM (#782265)

    A&W started carrying them. I tried one out of curiosity. You can definitely tell it's not real meat, but it's pretty close and actually tastes good.

    • (Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Saturday January 05 2019, @02:43AM

      by bobthecimmerian (6834) on Saturday January 05 2019, @02:43AM (#782365)

      I wanted to try vegan foods so I tried one at the closest vegan restaurant. I thought it wasn't as good as a top quality beef burger, but it was better than almost any fast food burger, diner burger, or Applebees, Ruby Tuesdays, etc... burger I had ever eaten. I went out and bought some at the grocery store.

      My experience before was that veggie burgers that don't try to be meat-substitutes are often good. But all the other meat substitute veggie burgers I've ever had were awful.

(1)