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posted by takyon on Monday January 07 2019, @09:11AM   Printer-friendly
from the groped-into-it dept.

Hundreds of Transportation Security Administration officers, who are required to work without paychecks through the partial government shutdown, have called out from work this week from at least four major airports, according to two senior agency officials and three TSA employee union officials.

The mass call outs could inevitably mean air travel is less secure, especially as the shutdown enters its second week with no clear end to the political stalemate in sight. "This will definitely affect the flying public who we (are) sworn to protect," Hydrick Thomas, president of the national TSA employee union, told CNN.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:27AM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:27AM (#783091)

    The security theater is not performing, what shall we do now...

    • (Score: 5, Funny) by driverless on Monday January 07 2019, @09:44AM (2 children)

      by driverless (4770) on Monday January 07 2019, @09:44AM (#783097)

      Improv security theatre! The passengers can screen themselves, and will be rated by applause levels from other passengers.

      • (Score: 5, Funny) by Thexalon on Monday January 07 2019, @02:26PM

        by Thexalon (636) on Monday January 07 2019, @02:26PM (#783180)

        "Welcome to Whose Bag Is This Anyway?, where the rules are made up and the X-Rays don't matter!"

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:41PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:41PM (#783261)

        I think he did a great job. He was really entertaining. But, well, I don't want to touch that wand after he, well, you know ... after what he did. So no, just no. I'll wait for the shutdown to be over.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:46AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:46AM (#783098)

      good time to travel

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by SpockLogic on Monday January 07 2019, @01:47PM (3 children)

      by SpockLogic (2762) on Monday January 07 2019, @01:47PM (#783162)

      When did calling in sick become calling out sick?

      --
      Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
      • (Score: 1) by kryptonianjorel on Monday January 07 2019, @01:50PM

        by kryptonianjorel (4640) on Monday January 07 2019, @01:50PM (#783164)

        I guess its how you read it. 'Calling in, sick' vs 'Calling, out sick'

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday January 07 2019, @02:29PM (1 child)

        by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Monday January 07 2019, @02:29PM (#783182) Journal

        It's not so much "when" but rather "where" -- "calling out" is a regional variant, most popular in the greater New York area [quickanddirtytips.com].

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:36PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:36PM (#783231)

          of course it had to be yankee propagandists.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @05:29AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @05:29AM (#783565)

      Be scared, be very scared. If anything happens, Trump will declare an "emergency" and he is mad enough to declare martial law. We will need a military coup to stop and remove him.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:36AM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:36AM (#783093)

    Have the passengers walk by an explosive sniffing dog, say hello to someone as they show their boarding pass, and then through a metal detector. It is 10x faster and just as safe.

    • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday January 07 2019, @09:48AM (4 children)

      by isostatic (365) on Monday January 07 2019, @09:48AM (#783099) Journal

      What are you trying to guard against?

      • (Score: 2, Touché) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday January 07 2019, @11:27AM

        by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Monday January 07 2019, @11:27AM (#783120) Homepage Journal

        Fuck MDC

        --
        Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
      • (Score: 5, Touché) by Spamalope on Monday January 07 2019, @01:34PM

        by Spamalope (5233) on Monday January 07 2019, @01:34PM (#783156) Homepage

        What are you trying to guard against?

        Security theater implemented by tinpot dictators.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:44PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:44PM (#783262)

        What are you trying to guard against?

        Obviously, they are looking for exploding dog treats.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @08:06PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @08:06PM (#783342)

        People carrying explosives, knives/guns, and/or who are exceptionally nervous. I am confused as to why that is not obvious to you.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:48AM (#783100)

      well if you standing near the dog you probably dead.

    • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:51AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:51AM (#783101)

      I, for one, prefer to be sniffed by non-explosive dogs. Rigging a dog to explode is animal cruelty! Call the ASPCA on the TSA!

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @02:17PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @02:17PM (#783172)

      A few months ago I was at the Seattle airport and security was really backed up so they just ran a dog past everyone and skipped all the other BS.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Monday January 07 2019, @09:38AM (9 children)

    by PiMuNu (3823) on Monday January 07 2019, @09:38AM (#783095)

    This exposes a structural weakness inherent in the US system.

    • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @11:19AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @11:19AM (#783117)

      That we waste money on useless things?

      • (Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Monday January 07 2019, @12:42PM (1 child)

        by PiMuNu (3823) on Monday January 07 2019, @12:42PM (#783138)

        I meant the potential for deadlock. I should have been more clear.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:56PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:56PM (#783294)

          > I meant the potential for deadlock. I should have been more clear.

          Let me 'splain something to you. When the US Gov't is deadlocked is the best time. They dick around with themselves in Washington DC and for the most part leave the rest of the country alone. We can usually take care of ourselves without their help (scary words, "I'm a Fed, I'm here to help you").

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 07 2019, @12:14PM (2 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @12:14PM (#783128) Journal

      Well, yes, we've been saying that for about 17 years now. Homeland Security and TSA provide ample evidence that government is broken. Given that our airlines were insecure, we should have just gone to El Al, and copied their methods.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Monday January 07 2019, @12:38PM

        by PiMuNu (3823) on Monday January 07 2019, @12:38PM (#783136)

        TSA is an implementation feature, but potential for deadlock is rather more structural, dont you think?

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by zocalo on Monday January 07 2019, @03:34PM

        by zocalo (302) on Monday January 07 2019, @03:34PM (#783202)
        El Al's approach works, but it's invasive and time consuming as hell. You queue and get your travel papers screened first, then you queue again and get your bags screened (all of them), and your checked luggage will almost certainly be opened and inspected on its way to the plane. You then get your travel papers checked and carry on bags screened (and probably opened) again before you actually board the plane, just in case someone passed you something in the terminal, I guess. El Al are fine with this because they don't really give a crap about whether or not you have time to spend money in the terminal rather than just spend all your time in one queue or another and absolutely care about their aircraft landing in one piece. Airports - that rely on that revenue to turn a profit - are going to fight tooth and nail against mass adoption though, or just pass the lost retail revenue straight back onto the airline in the form of gate fees that will then get passed down to the passenger. Ultimately, it's all still security theatre, albeit one that fewer people seem willing to test. Pick your poison...
        --
        UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Monday January 07 2019, @02:17PM (1 child)

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Monday January 07 2019, @02:17PM (#783175) Journal

      Yes, it is broken. The more unavoidably obvious that is made to everyone, the greater the need to start again. In that process of starting again, we can look at everything in the American republic 1.0 and assess whether it's worth keeping, chucking, or modifying.

      I, for one, would like to see the TSA chucked, and its parent organization, the Department of Homeland Security, repudiated (as a proponent of America's original moniker, "The Land of the Free, Home of the Brave," I find the mere act of typing "Homeland" extremely offensive and distasteful). I eschew flying almost entirely in favor of driving because I hate them that much.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:39PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:39PM (#783234)

        they wanted to use Dept of Faderland security but it did poorly in focus groups

    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday January 08 2019, @05:37AM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday January 08 2019, @05:37AM (#783566) Journal

      Yep, it's the voters.

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:58AM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:58AM (#783102)

    Look up US Code Title 22 Chapter 38 Section 2656f(d) and tell me how far (apart from actual violence) this shutdown is from an act of terrorism.

    Then do the same for 18 USC Par. 2331.

    Bonus points if you manage to also do it for any or all of the affected state laws.

    • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @10:40AM (8 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @10:40AM (#783108)

      Definitely grounds for impeachment, or a general strike.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 07 2019, @12:15PM (3 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @12:15PM (#783129) Journal

        But, how do we impeach all of congress?

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by epitaxial on Monday January 07 2019, @02:17PM (2 children)

          by epitaxial (3165) on Monday January 07 2019, @02:17PM (#783173)

          Its called voting. Never vote for the incumbent.

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by HiThere on Monday January 07 2019, @04:38PM

            by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @04:38PM (#783233) Journal

            The problem is that voting for the only other party likely to win is only a small improvement. This feature is inherent in the "plurality wins" electoral system. Other systems have their own problems, but plurality wins was only chosen because the monarchists had no chance of winning, and the alternatives weren't clear. That said, the original constitution left most power to the states, who each had their own constitution. Most power definitely included the right to levy taxes, and pay for a standing army. So as originally designed the flaw was less important.

            --
            Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:03PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:03PM (#783297)

            That doesn't help. The "problem" is that there is a big country with diverse interests. People typically like their local representative because their local representative is like them. They just don't like "the other guy."

            For example, imagine there is a Congressman Smith in California who is for gun confiscations, for no-questions-asked abortions, and wants a more strict EPA. Further, imagine there is a Congressman Jones in Texas who is for no-questions-asked gun purchases, wants to ban abortions, and wants to defund the EPA.

            The people in California love Smith, the people in Texas love Jones, but both of them hate Congress as a whole because they end up in a weird hybrid state which nobody likes.

            I fail to see how voting against the incumbent helps that fundamental situation.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:41PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:41PM (#783288)

        Mobilize the working class against the US government shutdown [wsws.org]:

        The population as a whole will be affected by delays in income tax refunds and other federal stipends, by the disruption of air travel as payless paydays drive air traffic controllers and security screeners from their jobs, and by the loss of many other services and facilities.

        Even more ominous is the threat to democracy posed by Trump’s declaration that, as president, he has the power to declare a national emergency and order the military to build a wall along the US-Mexico border using Pentagon funds, in defiance of Congress. Trump reiterated the threat on Sunday morning, saying that he would decide “in a few days” whether to take that drastic step.

        American democracy is collapsing under the weight of mounting social antagonisms, above all the colossal increase in economic inequality, as a financial aristocracy of unprecedented wealth controls all levers of political power while the vast majority of working people, struggling to survive, are excluded from any influence over government policy.

        The rival claims of the two sides in the dispute over the border wall have no credibility.

        If left in the hands of Trump and the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives, the outcome will be more repression of immigrants, lost paychecks and jobs for federal workers and contract employees, further erosion of social programs, and potentially an open breach with constitutional norms and the emergence of an outright presidential dictatorship.

        Federal workers must take the initiative. They should form rank-and-file committees to prepare protests and demonstrations, sickouts and strike action, organized independently and over social media rather than through the bankrupt and reactionary unions, to demand an end to the shutdown and the restoration of jobs and paychecks to all federal workers and contractors.

        This must be combined with appeals for support from other sections of workers coming into struggle, including the 40,000 Los Angeles public school teachers set to strike next Thursday [wsws.org] and auto workers organizing against mass layoffs [wsws.org]. In fighting for their interests, workers must demand a halt to the savage persecution of immigrants on the US-Mexico border and throughout the country.

        The last demand is not an afterthought, but a core principle. American workers must recognize that what is being done to refugees and asylum seekers at the border—jailing without trial, separation of parents and children, tear-gassing and other violence, and the building of internment camps—is a preparation for similar attacks on the entire working class. This is how Trump and the Democrats will deal with any movement in the working class in defense of jobs, living standards and social benefits.

        Links are mine.

        Workers must draw the necessary political conclusions from the crisis. By threatening to shut down core functions of a modern society, from air travel to health care to public services for the needy and the most oppressed, the ruling class is demonstrating that it is unfit to rule.

        Additionally, this struggle is an international struggle; globalist capitalism can only be overcome on an international basis. See also Growing “yellow vest” protests defy French police repression [wsws.org].

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:03PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:03PM (#783372)

          The working class should want the US government to be "shut down". The only people getting tax refunds are those who overpayed their taxes, that is a personal choice that has nothing to do with being "working class".

          And the united states is in like 30 states of emergency (most of them for many years), with about half of them allowing the president extra powers over the military. This has nothing to do with trump.

          That entire post is wrong in every way.

          If you want to help the working class, fight for lower housing/food/fuel prices (ie, price deflation) to match with wages. They have been screwed over because wages have lagged price inflation for a long time, but it was especially extreme recently due to the 2008-2016 ZIRP policy of the federal reserve. That policy was used to prop up the stock market at the expense of the working class.

          In short, your reasons are wrong, your understanding of the context is wrong, and your solution is wrong. I couldn't come up with a better way to screw over the working class than what is suggested there. It reminds me of how the early rise of socialism/communism was supported by the wealthy industrialists/bankers, because they knew centralizing power just made it easier for them to control.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @01:02AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @01:02AM (#783494)

            I feel I should at least attempt a response.

            And the united states is in like 30 states of emergency (most of them for many years), with about half of them allowing the president extra powers over the military. This has nothing to do with trump.

            Yep. Trump is absolutely not the cause of all this. That cannot be repeated enough, so go on repeating it. He's just the PT Barnum character we get to see on the lamestream propaganda leading the next two years' hit reality TV show, The Incumbent.

            2008-2016 ZIRP policy of the federal reserve. That policy was used to prop up the stock market at the expense of the working class.

            wswswswsws came to the same conclusion.

            Your ideas about deflation fail to take into consideration the effect deflation would have on debt at all layers of society from the top to the bottom. But deflation would be a helluva way to get the revolution started.

            The only people getting tax refunds are those who overpayed their taxes, that is a personal choice that has nothing to do with being "working class".

            Everybody I know is aware of this. Did you just find this out or something?

            It reminds me of how the early rise of socialism/communism was supported by the wealthy industrialists/bankers, because they knew centralizing power just made it easier for them to control.

            In what way does the ICFI calling for independent rank-and-file committees in opposition to the unions, which are controlled by the wealthy industrialists/bankers, remind you of this?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @02:41AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @02:41AM (#783531)

              Everybody I know is aware of this. Did you just find this out or something?

              So then why is it presented as a "working class" problem? Paraphrasing "The government shutdown is bad (for us) because people wont get their tax refunds" was the first thing quoted.

              In what way does the ICFI calling for independent rank-and-file committees in opposition to the unions, which are controlled by the wealthy industrialists/bankers, remind you of this?

              It doesn't, that one sounds great. It would probably also work out better while the government is "shut down".

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @08:01PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @08:01PM (#783336)

      Hilarious. Later this year: Unless you vote to increase the debt limit, you are a treasonous terrorist. And the real reason behind all this (enriching the rich and powerful) finally comes out.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by richtopia on Monday January 07 2019, @11:13AM (5 children)

    by richtopia (3160) on Monday January 07 2019, @11:13AM (#783115) Homepage Journal

    I am sitting at gate A70 now. Perhaps as the traffic increases security will slow, but for now I did not see any difference in the TSA experience.

    I am nervous for my flight home Friday; another week without pay and a Friday evening departure sounds like a recipe for no TSA agents.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @11:21AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @11:21AM (#783118)

      Now you see these guys will grope you even for no pay – they just love their work.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 07 2019, @12:20PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @12:20PM (#783131) Journal

      Is that a typo? DTW should be DFW? Or, maybe not - duckduckgo search for "US airport DTW" gives me Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport. I learned something!!

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by SomeGuy on Monday January 07 2019, @02:10PM (2 children)

      by SomeGuy (5632) on Monday January 07 2019, @02:10PM (#783169)

      I am nervous for my flight home Friday; another week without pay and a Friday evening departure sounds like a recipe for no TSA agents.

      Why? You have a fear of NOT being groped, prodded, scanned, tracked and inconvenienced?

      People used to fly all the time before the TSA. The few bad things that happened back then are unlikely to happen today due to other changes that have nothing to do with the TSA.

      Fuck TSA.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:06PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:06PM (#783298)

        Wooosh!
        He has a fear of the TSA line being around the block (due to low TSA headcount), and missing his flight because of spending hours in the security line.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @08:04PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @08:04PM (#783339)

          That isnt what they do. They just do sane security screening like described above (dog + metal detector + short convo). Some airports do this by default and there is no difference in your safety.

  • (Score: 4, Funny) by shortscreen on Monday January 07 2019, @11:13AM (7 children)

    by shortscreen (2252) on Monday January 07 2019, @11:13AM (#783116) Journal

    They aren't really sick, that's just a cover story. The truth is that they have gone to build the wall, and for that they will be paid in MAGA hats.

    • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Monday January 07 2019, @12:06PM (2 children)

      by bzipitidoo (4388) on Monday January 07 2019, @12:06PM (#783127) Journal

      They are sick. Lack of money is a serious illness, don't you know?

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Monday January 07 2019, @03:03PM (1 child)

        by fyngyrz (6567) on Monday January 07 2019, @03:03PM (#783194) Journal

        Lack of money is a serious illness

        So is doing a phony-baloney job that accomplishes nothing it is advertised to accomplish, while at the same time serving as a form of agitprop designed to put inappropriate fear into the minds of the citizens it abuses.

        It would have been lovely if they'd simply armored the cockpits, provided an in-cockpit bathroom, a separate entrance to the cockpit from outside, replaced the passenger-area-to-cockpit area doors and passenger-area-to-cockpit comms with a solid bulkhead and a couple of buttons that fired off "in-flight-emergency, land now" and "passenger area good to go" indicators.

        Because that would have (a) solved the actual problem that 9/11 brought to the fore (hijackers using passengers as hostages to force the plane to go wherever and/or the pilots otherwise being compromised), and (b) not turned into an ongoing labor and financial drain on the country.

        But no. We got these useless, fear-inspiring drones instead.

        --
        Deceiving the young "to make them happy" conditions
        them to deceive others "to make them happy."

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:56PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:56PM (#783332)

          That should tell you something about the true purpose of what is actually done, no matter what pretenses the gaslighting assholes sell it under.

          When it comes to the gaslighting asshole masters of the universe, never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice.

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @02:51PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @02:51PM (#783191)

      is the currency for MAGA hats sort of like the credit one gets for having a PC that earns a lot of bogomips?

      seems that the bogus aspect would be a common currency between them.

      make linux on the desktop great again!

      also why did they remove the minimize window icon in gnome; i just installed debian 9.6.0 and it was a fresh install of anything nix with a gui in a long long time

      i had to find out what file to edit to restore that, but it seems very... forced tablet os behavior. on a server.

      overall i think i cant stand the new guis on linux, too. maybe I should just focus on my bogomips.

      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:21PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:21PM (#783279)

        Agreed. Linux is a never ending dumpster fire of an OS (distribution, whatever!)
        If only they could stick to making it the best, stablest command line oriented OS ever.
        Linux dorks actually managed to "innovate" a *worse* GUI than they had in the year 2000, for God's sake!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:44PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:44PM (#783263)

      I'm doing my part to build the wall. I'm sending one lego brick to POTUS.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:11PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:11PM (#783299)

        > I'm sending one lego brick to POTUS.
        Send a brown one.

  • (Score: 0, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Monday January 07 2019, @12:17PM (8 children)

    by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Monday January 07 2019, @12:17PM (#783130) Homepage Journal

    Some magnificent Tweets from Tyler Q. Houlton @SpoxDHS [twitter.com] about the Fake News coming out of CNN, a long, proud member of the Opposition Party. We love our TSA and they're doing a beautiful job. TOTALLY INACCURATE STORY!!!

    By the way, my FABULOUS MILITARY has delivered justice for the heroes lost and wounded in the cowardly attack on the U. S. S. Cole. We have just killed the leader of that attack, Jamal al-Badawi. RIP Jamal. Our work against al Qaeda continues. We will never stop in our fight against Radical Islamic Terrorism. WINNING!!!!

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 07 2019, @12:26PM (7 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @12:26PM (#783132) Journal

      Is justice delayed, really justice? That's a LIFETIME ago!

      A criminal is sentenced to death, and occupies a cell(s) on death row for 20, 30, 40, maybe even 50 years. Everyone who was affected by the crime is long dead, and those people's children are grown up with children of their own - maybe even grandchildren of their own. FINALLY, the convict is executed. Is that supposed to be "justice"????

      Now, when are you going after the criminals who attacked the USS Liberty? That was - what - 33 years prior to the Cole?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @02:10PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @02:10PM (#783170)

        The Obama/Hillary photo op around the mission to take out Bin Laden was hailed as "justice served" and it had been far longer since the tower attacks. So yea, I guess justice served late is still justice.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @03:53PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @03:53PM (#783214)

          Obama looked like a basement dweller clutching his Nintendo controller in that picture.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Monday January 07 2019, @03:05PM (2 children)

        by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Monday January 07 2019, @03:05PM (#783196) Homepage Journal

        Big delay, that's so true. But, not because of your favorite President! I've always always said, I want toughness & vigilance on radical Islamic terrorism. We must be smart. My first full week as President, I did the Muslim Ban. Otherwise known as Travel Ban. To keep the terrorists out of our wonderful Country. And now, after not even 2 years, I'm still in my 2nd year, my brave soldiers have killed Jamal. Very proud that Jamal's dead. This major, major terrorist. Obama's soldiers didn't kill him. Bush Jr.'s soldiers didn't kill him. And my good friend Bill Clinton didn't kill him.

        And by the way, I wasn't President when that horrible attack on the U. S. S. Cole happened. It was my buddy Bill. Who, he plays a mean game of golf. And he's a great husband, from what I hear, he's great. But as President, maybe not the best. He sent so many ships to the Middle East. To protect the Oil Tankers. And where was the payment for that? Very little payment. Look, if they want us to do the fighting, they also have to pay a price. And sometimes that's also a monetary price. So we're not the suckers of the world. We're no longer the suckers, folks. And people aren't looking at us as suckers.

        U. S. S. Liberty, that's another one. Where, we had a Dem President. Known as L. B. J.. Who was trying to "win" in Vietnam. Very hard one to win, and maybe it wasn't even possible. As everybody in the Deep State knew -- Sigma I-64. But they told L. B. J., "oh, hang in there, and we'll get so much respect from those other countries!" He kept his military in there and it became an absolute disaster. As everyone knows.

        So the Vietnam thing is going on, so much military in there. And the Deep State were wondering, "oh, what about the Middle East, what's happening in Egypt & Israel?" And they sent a very small Spy Ship. With very small Guns. And no Escort. The Navy guys always do the Escort, right? They had so many ships, you'd think they could do the Escort. But, Vietnam. So we had another horrible attack, even worse than the Cole. Because the Cole made it. But U. S. S. Liberty, they scrapped that one. They looked at, how much will it cost to fix that one up. And the damage was just too much. And it was also a tremendous loss of so many of our beautiful, and very brave Sailors & Spies. Some incredible men on that one. Which also happened with the Cole. But, at least the Cole was worth repairing. A lot of damage to that one too. But, it was a much newer ship. And, it wasn't captured. The Liberty was captured. So they had to smash all the cyber. They smashed the digital and threw that in the water. It was some of the wettest we’ve ever seen from the standpoint of water. Cole, they kept the digital. And they saved that one by fixing up the hole. There was a loss of life, and may God be with them and their families. And it certainly is not good. But they kept the expenses down. And we're looking very closely at, how much is it costing us to send our Military to all these places. And, how much are we getting paid for it. We send too many of our guys & gals around the World to die. Without getting the BIG MONEY we need and deserve. Not for long, believe me!!!

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 07 2019, @03:55PM (1 child)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @03:55PM (#783215) Journal

          But, not because of your favorite President!

          It wasn't the fault of either of my favorite presidents. Both Eisenhower and Kennedy were underground long before 9/11/01.

          And, BTW, Liberty was no "small ship". It's much larger than the destroyers I served on - comparable to a WW2 battle cruiser, for size. The escort was available, but it seems that Admiral McCain denied the Liberty an escort. And, help was available for the Liberty almost immediately after the attack started, but help was bungled. (They sent two nuclear armed jets to "help", then called them back when someone higher up realized how badly they were fucking up.) The SOVIETS were the first people to arrive on scene, and to make a credible offer of assistance. (The Israelis did ask if Liberty needed help, after they shot her up, but the reply was "go fuck yourselves".)

          And, finally, no, the Liberty was not captured. The ship remained under the command of United States Naval officers for the duration of the incident. IF the Israelis had sent a boarding party of perhaps 25 men, they MIGHT have captured the ship. It would have been pretty difficult to defend the ship with the entire crew lying around, doing a credible job of bleeding to death.

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:50PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:50PM (#783395)

            I doubt 25 men could have boarded the ship. Even though they took pretty good losses, wikipedia says they have a crew of 300. Plus they have automatic rifles, pistols, cannons and crew serve weapons. The crew is having a pretty bad day .These guys have been fighting fires and stopping floods and maybe after seeing enough of better men getting killed, they've convinced themselves they're probably going to die today anyhow so they might happily take a few rounds or something else suicidal.
            Not to mention the dangers associated with running around in a ship that's on fire and taking water, plus if you're not running DC-central you have no idea what's actually safe, what's a boobie trap, and what's turned off because it's busted. It would have to be a pretty well planned operation with a lot of supporting ships.
            US Sailors get killed onboard scuttled ships with some regularity and these are barely armed merchant ships staffed by old men and fat lardos with no combat training. For comparison US Sailors are rarely killed by those who attempt to engage boarding teams with firehoses or small arms, such fights are usually comically one sided.

      • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday January 07 2019, @03:23PM

        by NotSanguine (285) <NotSanguineNO@SPAMSoylentNews.Org> on Monday January 07 2019, @03:23PM (#783199) Homepage Journal

        A criminal is sentenced to death, and occupies a cell(s) on death row for 20, 30, 40, maybe even 50 years. Everyone who was affected by the crime is long dead, and those people's children are grown up with children of their own - maybe even grandchildren of their own. FINALLY, the convict is executed. Is that supposed to be "justice"????

        Yes. It is. In fact, I'd consider 30-50 years of being in a 6x9 cage to be a much, much harsher punishment than a quick death. As they know they will never again know the taste of freedom and that those four, close walls are the only things they're going to see as long as they live.

        --
        No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
      • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Monday January 07 2019, @07:38PM

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Monday January 07 2019, @07:38PM (#783319) Homepage

        I'm starting to think that Trump might have his Osama moment with the killing of the Cole Bombing mastermind -- everything about the Cole bombing smelled funny and reeked of being a false-flag because the same guys who bombed the Cole were arrested trying to bomb The Sullivans only months earlier (and they would have succeeded if they didn't load their dinghy down with too many explosives, causing it to sink), then they were let right out of jail to try their plot again.

        People on the inside of the U.S. Government, likely Neocons, knew this was coming and coordinated it with one or both of Mossad and Yemeni security services. The Cole bombing will be one of the crimes the Bushies will be charged with in the upcoming tribunals.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by bradley13 on Monday January 07 2019, @12:54PM (6 children)

    by bradley13 (3053) on Monday January 07 2019, @12:54PM (#783142) Homepage Journal

    Airline security should have been left in the hands of the airlines. They have no particular desire to see their passengers knocked out of the sky, and they would handle security without the bureaucratic empire-building inherent in any government effort. Heck, they handled security well for decades - 9/11 was a fluke, and anyway, would not be prevented by anything that TSA actually does during screening. There have been plenty of tests that show TSA is ineffective; in my personal case, I have - entirely accidentally - boarded a plane with a pocketknife in my backpack.

    If TSA would just shut down, the airlines would pick up the slack, and the US could be rid of this stupid, ineffectual agency.

    --
    Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @01:26PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @01:26PM (#783153)

      The purpose of TSA is to train the public to normalize living in a police state. Being groped would be normal daily occurrence for most people who get out of their residences. Movement would be controlled and you would have to apply before attempting to move. Welcome to City 17. If you've chosen or been chosen...

      And then the whole system falls and those hook-nosed khazar jewish rats responsible will be punished adequately.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:44PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:44PM (#783236)

        obvious agent. says many true things that are inconvenient to the establishment criminals and then taints his speech (on purpose) with talk of "khazar jewish rats". fuck off pig.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:12PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:12PM (#783302)

          makes me wonder if the whole militia movement isn't guided by agents and pigs

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @07:41PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @07:41PM (#783813)

            the documentary "a noble lie" will give some kind of idea as to the feds involvement with these things.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Monday January 07 2019, @02:27PM

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Monday January 07 2019, @02:27PM (#783181) Journal

      Yes but the sheep were quickly and easily herded into the creation of the TSA after 9/11. Cheney was given carte blanche to realize all his long-held totalitarian desires. Thus we got the TSA, and the Department of Homeland Security, because why should Nazi Germany get to be a "fatherland" and the USSR a "motherland" while America, a mighty empire itself, had no such thousand-year reich capstone? We also got the Total Information Awareness program, which, though initially rejected for its branding, was absorbed into the federal government's DNA and became what Snowden exposed and which our lovely government still uses to oppress us.

      It's the danger of the herd mentality, and why we must all fight it every day, especially now. If somebody shows up and says, hey, let's all do this thing, that should sound as a loud, loud, loud alarm to stop and carefully consider the proposal, because it all too often turns out the idea is "let's jump off this cliff!!"

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday January 08 2019, @03:10AM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 08 2019, @03:10AM (#783540) Journal

      Private security didn't seem to work real well in the 1900's. Hijacking seemed to be a popular sport, with almost routine hijackings to Cuba, and less routine hijackings to other destinations. The industry standard response was "Meet the hijacker's demands, and we'll recover later."

      Another issue, at least somewhat related, is the banking industry's attitude that cameras constitute "security".

      As much as I mock the TSA, I think that government had to get involved. I just don't know what would have worked, in that regard. We definitely needed something more imaginative.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 07 2019, @01:39PM (3 children)

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday January 07 2019, @01:39PM (#783158) Homepage Journal

    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @02:23PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @02:23PM (#783179)

      I agree with the sentiment, but we need to come up with a better way of saying it since that quote isn't relevant:

      https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century [npr.org]

      "It means ... much closer to the opposite than to the thing that people think it means."

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 07 2019, @02:44PM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday January 07 2019, @02:44PM (#783186) Homepage Journal

        Why? Its original meaning was specific to a discrete situation, the context of which is now mostly forgotten dust. They're still perfectly good words whose most obvious interpretation is quite useful though. It really doesn't matter much to me if Benji gets erroneous credit for wisdom this long after he died.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Monday January 07 2019, @02:46PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @02:46PM (#783188) Journal
        There's no need. The quote remains quite relevant and it's not "closer to the opposite".

        A non-democratic entity, here, the Penn family's ownership of the Pennsylvania charter attempted to bribe the state legislature to continue the non-democratic relationship. It's not that different from a non-democratic security apparatus promising security in exchange for a little essential liberty. They both promise some reward in exchange for a permanent relinquishment of freedom with no guarantee that the reward will continue once the freedom has been relinquished.

        I think it's telling that the Ben Franklin quote is framed as "a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security." which is "misused" to defend a right to privacy rather than as a quote with broad generality.

        Does anyone believe that Franklin wouldn't see the ineffectual TSA security theater or the far more serious, unconstitutional mass surveillance of the US government as a huge target to which this quote can be applied?

        The quote is quite relevant.
  • (Score: 0, Troll) by Username on Monday January 07 2019, @01:43PM (8 children)

    by Username (4557) on Monday January 07 2019, @01:43PM (#783160)

    They'll get paid, saying they wont is fake news. Congress can pass the budget themselves, but they wont. Have to make orange man bad.

    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday January 07 2019, @02:33PM (6 children)

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Monday January 07 2019, @02:33PM (#783183) Journal

      No matter how hard I try, I can't find any tears to shed for TSA employees who don't get paid. Neither can I bring myself to cry for anyone in the federal government, outside troops in the military, who don't get paid. They live large on our backs. Let them suffer. In fact, they should all suffer much, much more, so that they will at least have some sense what it is to walk a mile in our shoes, thanks to policies born of their corruption and incompetence.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 2) by Oakenshield on Monday January 07 2019, @04:37PM (3 children)

        by Oakenshield (4900) on Monday January 07 2019, @04:37PM (#783232)

        While I'd not put it quite as hatefully as you, I'd have to agree in part. We've all been in positions where we did not get paid in a timely fashion. The difference is that the TSA agents know with absolute certainty that they will receive their pay in full, eventually. There are far too many of us that have been screwed out of our pay and left to hold an empty bag forever. At worst case, it is an inconvenience for them. It is all part and parcel of the risk working for the Federal government. It's a pretty sweet job 99% of the time as long as you are prepared for the 1% it is not.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:55PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:55PM (#783267)

          Knowing you'll eventually be paid does not help pay the bills that are due. I've been through a number of government shutdowns and the added stress does not help.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:31PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:31PM (#783316)

          What I'm having trouble with is an employer expecting staff to work for free, and then compounding that by the staff thinking that they need to squander sick days to refuse to work without pay. Fark that noise. If the employer expects staff to accept effective slavery, there should be no surprise when nobody shows up for their shift.

          We've all been in positions where we did not get paid in a timely fashion.

          WTH? No, we absolutely haven't. What kind of person is willing to work for no compensation because "oops, we can't pay you", in hopes that the employer will eventually come up with some money to pay them? We're not slaves.

          The difference is that the TSA agents know with absolute certainty that they will receive their pay in full, eventually.

          So you're saying that the government shutdown is just more theatre? What's the point bothering with the shutdown, then?

          A lot of those people don't have the necessary savings to last through their employer withholding pay. When the whiny turd at the top is telling everyone that he's prepared to maintain the shutdown for months or years, only an idiot wouldn't seek employment elsewhere.

          • (Score: 2) by Oakenshield on Monday January 07 2019, @09:51PM

            by Oakenshield (4900) on Monday January 07 2019, @09:51PM (#783396)

            We've all been in positions where we did not get paid in a timely fashion.

            WTH? No, we absolutely haven't. What kind of person is willing to work for no compensation because "oops, we can't pay you", in hopes that the employer will eventually come up with some money to pay them? We're not slaves.

            You've been a very lucky guy then. My mother got screwed out of her last paycheck at one employer when the S&L crisis of the 80s caused the bank that her employer used to shut their doors. She had a paper paycheck that nobody would cash. The business ended up closed and bankrupt because they couldn't get access to their money and pay creditors while waiting months for the regulators to sort through the mess. I've had friends miss out on timely pay. I myself had my employer at the time miss payroll due to a clerical problem and the direct deposit was delayed by two days. It wasn't an issue for me, but I had colleagues and friends that were sweating. They had written checks they couldn't cover and already mailed them. I carried enough balance to pay my mortgage and bills on time, so I was safe. This was a state agency too.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:13PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:13PM (#783275)

        You are a microencephlic ninnyhammer.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @01:54AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @01:54AM (#783514)

        Why do you give "troops in the military" a free pass? For one, these are the federal employees who are _most_ likely to be getting free food and lodging, so are less likely to be evicted, starve etc if they don't get paid. Secondly, this isn't the Vietnam war - they are not conscripts. They signed up willingly, and presumably they understood when they signed up that in the military, far worse things can happen than "not getting paid for a while." Whereas other government employees (eg NASA, NOAA) probably didn't make the same choices when they applied. There are ways to serve your country that _don't_ involve killing.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:10PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:10PM (#783273)

      Contractors won't be paid, but Trump is okay with that as usual.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Thexalon on Monday January 07 2019, @02:41PM (14 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Monday January 07 2019, @02:41PM (#783184)

    The GOP has been running on wanting to eliminate the entire federal bureaucracy for decades. Shutting down the government completely is the fastest way to do this. They thought about shutting down the government for a long period during the Obama administration as well.

    Trump, on the other hand, has been trying since the start of his presidency to replace civil servants with people who he believes are loyal to him personally. So he hopes that the civil service employees will quit, and when the government re-opens he can hire a skeleton crew of people who profess loyalty to himself. This is exactly what presidents of third world countries do all the time, and what US presidents did before the establishment of the civil service system.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:03PM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:03PM (#783220)

      This is exactly what our constitution prescribes. The president is the single leader of the executive branch, and with limited exceptions, has full authority to hire and fire as he wishes.

      Where do bosses tolerate subordinates undermining their strategies?

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:25PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:25PM (#783250)

        The president is the single leader of the executive branch, and with limited exceptions, has full authority to hire and fire as he wishes.

        No, he doesn't, dumbass! I work for DoD. As a civilian employee, I am sworn to defend the Constitution, not the yutz who sits in the Oval Office, regardless of whatever party they belong to. On the other hand, the President does more or less have authority to fire at will any of his political appointees. Next time, know what you are talking about before spouting off.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:40PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:40PM (#783259)

          I'll refer you to US const art II sect 1 for proof.

          You swore to uphold the constitution, did you? Well, if the president has no more need for your, I'm sure indispensable, services, you can continue to uphold it in your mom's basement.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:59PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:59PM (#783270)

            We also swore to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:49PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:49PM (#783326)

            I'll refer you to US const art II sect 1 for proof.

            I just looked. Nowhere in Article II, Section 1 does it mention hiring and firing of civil servants. I didn't find anything in Section 2 through 4 either. Perhaps I am a bit thick. Could you please show me where in the Constitution you think the President has been given authority to hire/fire civil servants, outwith Congressional approval? Please be specific. You do realize that the President can't do anything regarding funding of the government without Congressional approval, right? I eagerly await your response.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Thexalon on Monday January 07 2019, @07:23PM

        by Thexalon (636) on Monday January 07 2019, @07:23PM (#783308)

        No, the president doesn't have the power to hire and fire as he wishes. He never has:
        - The president cannot on his own hire the vice-president. Early on in the country's history, prior to the 12th Amendment, the vice-president was whoever got the second-highest number of votes in the Electoral College, which meant that the early vice-presidents were often political opponents of the president. Now, the Electoral College does 2 rounds of votes, and they choose the vice-president on a second ballot. The president cannot fire the vice-president, either: The only way to remove a VP is for Congress to impeach and remove him, or for the VP to die, or for the VP to resign his office.
        - The president doesn't have the power to hire Cabinet officers either: He needs Senate confirmation of his choices, per the "Advice & Consent" clause. Without that, his cabinet consists of "acting" members, who have most but not all of the powers of confirmed members.
        - In 1883, the president lost his power to hire and fire low-level employees with the creation of the US civil service system. As far as any claims that the civil servants are working against the president, they've been barred from on-the-job political activity since 1939, so if there was evidence that they were trying to, say, help the Democrats win as part of their official duties, the people involved could be fired and otherwise punished for their activities. They haven't been, which means that the grand conspiratorial claims about them are basically pure fiction and should not be taken seriously. There are similar rules about what military members are and are not allowed to do while on duty, which Stanley McChrystal learned all about the hard way. As the rules currently stand, the president cannot legally fire or punish any civil servant or military member for refusing to break the law or current regulations. This shutdown is basically the Milton Waddams Maneuver writ large: They aren't being fired, they just won't be receiving a paycheck anymore, so it will all "work itself out naturally" without any confrontations (so management thinks).

        All of this has one big message built into it: The order of whose rules count is supposed to be The Constitution, the laws duly passed under the Constitution, the regulations currently in place, and then the president and his political appointees. That way, if the president is a crook, there are still people not involved in the president's crimes around to do boring but useful stuff like ensuring that the latest airplane repair requirements get published promptly and enforced, managing fishing catch limits to prevent over-fishing, and adjusting drawbridge schedules to compromise well between the needs of road and shipping traffic. It also means that a president can't simply declare the laws null and void by directing the executive branch to ignore them. In short, if you don't believe in the concept of civil and military service independent of the president's whims, then you don't believe in a democratic republic but instead believe in some form of authoritarian government.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by TheFool on Monday January 07 2019, @04:10PM (2 children)

      by TheFool (7105) on Monday January 07 2019, @04:10PM (#783223)

      I am not a Republican, but yes, this seems to be the closest to what I want.

      The federal budget should be as close to $0 as possible. If we set it exactly to $0 and negotiate up, especially with congress being as dysfunctional as it is right now, we might find out what we really need in a federal government.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:31PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:31PM (#783283)

        If you think Congress is dysfuntional now you should try working for them.

      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday January 07 2019, @10:21PM

        by Thexalon (636) on Monday January 07 2019, @10:21PM (#783408)

        The lowest possible federal government budget is $0. It means there isn't a federal government, at all. No courts, no presidency, no White House, no Congress, no FBI, nothing. Presumably, no such thing as US dollars too in fairly short order, since the Federal Reserve and the Department of the Treasury both go away in this scenario.

        The US tried something like that for the first few years after independence. It was called the Articles of Confederation, where the state governments were extremely independent and each sent a representative to the national government to coordinate the few things they were actually coordinating. We replaced it with the Constitution because the Articles of Confederation turned out to be pretty dysfunctional: The state governments didn't feel like contributing funds to the national government, so they didn't, which meant that the national government couldn't do things like establish a military sufficient to protect the nation from foreign invasion (from Native American nations, Brits, French, and Spanish) or internal rebellion (most notably that of Daniel Shays).

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 07 2019, @05:10PM (3 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @05:10PM (#783244) Journal

      Shutting down the government completely is the fastest way to do this.

      Except that it's not since back pay still happens. Costs are still incurred.

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by Thexalon on Monday January 07 2019, @07:26PM (1 child)

        by Thexalon (636) on Monday January 07 2019, @07:26PM (#783310)

        Assuming that back pay ever happens. Given Donald Trump's history of not paying people, I think it's fair to question whether the people currently working without pay will ever actually be paid for their time, even if doing that is completely illegal.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @08:14PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @08:14PM (#783347)

          While I agree that Trump has a terrible history of (illegally) not paying people for services rendered, I have a hard time believing that people will not eventually get paid. Even those on furlough. Remember that any deal to reopen the government must go through Congress as well. Congresscritters must eventually face angry constituents. Yes, even those who are federal employees who are on furlough.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @08:19PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @08:19PM (#783348)

        Shutting down the government completely is the fastest way to do this.

        Except that it's not since back pay still happens. Costs are still incurred.

        That's right! In fact, it's even worse than this because...wait for it...it actually costs money to shut down and reopen the government. Consider it a tax on political partisanship!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:55PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:55PM (#783331)

      If the GOP didn't want the TSA, then why did they make it in the first place?

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Whoever on Monday January 07 2019, @04:06PM (1 child)

    by Whoever (4524) on Monday January 07 2019, @04:06PM (#783222) Journal

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/01/clock-tower-at-trump-international-hotel-is-open-staffed-with-rangers-despite-shutdown.html [slate.com]

    Park Rangers are still staffing the clock tower in the building that houses the Trump International Hotel.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:04PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:04PM (#783271)

      I don't understand why furloughed employees aren't picketting all of trump's properties. They only way he is going to stop this BS is if it starts to cost him money.

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