Google Assistant will soon be on a billion devices, and feature phones are next
As CES kicks off, Google has a massive presence: monorails, a booth that's three times larger than last year, and likely a giant pile of news to announce. But ahead of all the actual product news, the company wants to beat its chest a little by announcing some numbers. By the end of the month, it expects that Google Assistant will be on 1 billion devices — up from 500 million this past May.
That's 900 million more than the number Amazon just gave us for Alexa. But just like Amazon, Google's number comes with caveats. In an interview with The Verge, Manuel Bronstein, the company's vice president of Google Assistant, copped to it. "The largest footprint right now is on phones. On Android devices, we have a very very large footprint," he says. He characterizes the ratio of phones as "the vast majority" of that billion number, but he won't specify it more than that. Though he does argue that smart speakers and other connected home devices comprise a notable and growing portion.
[...] For Google, the next billion devices will come in emerging markets, specifically on feature phones.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 07 2019, @11:09PM (28 children)
Sitting here tickled pink to have not have any part of the gapps package installed on my phone at all.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Knowledge Troll on Monday January 07 2019, @11:13PM (26 children)
Go on. Is it not Android? If it is Android what about Play Services?
That thing needs to die. I've got it denied access to the sensors and it hates that.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 07 2019, @11:19PM (20 children)
I just made all my sensors (except orientation) lie. Saves worries.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Tuesday January 08 2019, @01:47AM (14 children)
How about the acoustic sensor aka microphone? Do you have a solution that keeps it not open all the time?
I'd love one of those.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 08 2019, @02:03AM (1 child)
I don't have any constantly running apps that even have the capacity to read from it, much less the permissions. The ones that are only occasionally open I grant or deny permission as I see fit.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Knowledge Troll on Tuesday January 08 2019, @03:37AM
Eh that's still software gating the microphone which I don't like. That all requires operating system security and those terms are oxymorons.
Though not having apps reduces the surface area of attack at least.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday January 08 2019, @04:03PM (11 children)
Install a normally-open pushbutton. Use it to interrupt one of the microphone's connections. For the mic to work, you'd have to hold it down.
--
If attacked by a mob of clowns,
go for the juggler.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Tuesday January 08 2019, @04:14PM (10 children)
Yes that is how physically the microphone can be electrically disconnected using a dirty cheap mass produced product.
How about fitting all of that into the phone case where there is no room? Where does it sit? On the back plate? How do you touch it? On the sides? Is there a micropushbutton small enough to fit there?
Naw you need something closer to a capacitive sensing element because that's just a conductive strip running along the edges so you can actually interact with it. Bonus points that it doesn't have any moving parts so won't wear out either.
But where is the driver for that going to sit again? If it was constructed that way it would fit on the motherboard in the phone but there isn't any space available in the modern phone.
I modify electronics. Just because I know how doesn't mean it's clear on how to do it for every device.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday January 08 2019, @04:24PM (9 children)
Why would you do that? It's an external thing: put it on the outside. Any little membrane switch would do. [amazon.com]
Well, it's your mod... put it where you want it.
...seems like a personal problem. Can't help ya there.
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No sense being pessimistic, it wouldn't work anyway.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Tuesday January 08 2019, @04:26PM (8 children)
Cool! I'm glad it's easy.
It wasn't but then you said I'm stupid and now it is. Yay.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday January 08 2019, @04:40PM (7 children)
Yes, well, except I didn't say that, nor did I imply it. But other than that, sure!
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Anything you say will be misquoted and used against you.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Tuesday January 08 2019, @07:50PM (6 children)
Oh then the personal problem I have is? I figured it was because I don't know what I'm doing and should just get better.
It seems you've got a larger problem I have in mind though. Now I'm all ears.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday January 08 2019, @08:30PM (5 children)
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
You said:
I said:
What I meant (and frankly, I thought this was obvious, but...) if it's not clear to you on how to do it on some specific phone, which was the subject matter at hand, then you should get after that. I wasn't saying it was beyond your flipping capacity, I was saying that's something you should be able to solve, and this:
...was simply a frank acknowledgement of the ball being in your court, not anyone else's, including mine.
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Yes sir, two copies of "Math For Dummies" at $16.95.
That'll be $50.00
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Tuesday January 08 2019, @08:57PM (4 children)
So basically at the end of this the information you contributed is at best a NOOP. What information do you have for the assertion that it's easy? You did say that or am I misunderstanding that too?
I was assuming you were just being a jerk and knew something I didn't know like you modified your phone to do this or you've read a howto on how to do this and you'd plop down a URL to make me look dumb. I was even looking forward to that because I wanted to see what all the hoops are to jump though that I haven't even thought of yet.
Here's my analysis of the best case to just sum it all up. Go ahead and falsify the assumptions if you can. If you can't, cool, because this isn't easy.
I can't figure out a way to do it with adding in new components that I'm certain won't fit. Maybe I could deadbug the circuits using very tiny surface mount components (not easy) then pot it in a bit of epoxy just to keep it mechanically stable (eh pretty easy) then slip it in and wire it up with 40 gauge wire (eh 40 gauge isn't that bad). But I have to find a place to put it (hard) because every last square micrometer of space was consumed by the manufacturer.
So "it's easy" but you can't help me and I'm not incompetent. Why did you say anything? Because you put together a circuit in your head where you interrupt the conductivity to the microphone and you think you are done?
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Wednesday January 09 2019, @12:23AM (3 children)
Here's how I would, theoretically, approach it, were this something I was trying to do:
That's necessarily hand wavy; the fine details will depend on the phone's interior, and that will simply take some exploring. I'd buy a couple of the switches to preclude failing due to a bad cut, etc. You'll need some small diameter wire, and likely some very good soldering skills, plus attaching to the end of the flat cable may be tricky.
Have fun.
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Autocorrect has become my worst enema.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Wednesday January 09 2019, @12:41AM (2 children)
Cool, you did it with out any of the components I'm worried about. As described that would probably fit. And you got water tightness which is a big concern. Long term results, which most people ignore, would have to be determined. Usually the first try will fall apart quickly and it takes refinement.
Does that membrane switch debounce? With out a debounce you'll hear crackling if you move your fingers while talking.
What about the problem with switching the microphone in and out of the circuit causing clicks and popping? That's because if the microphone isn't switched in when the voltage level it outputs is 0 (there is no signal) the "immediate" jump to that signal level is interpreted as a square wave and those are just nasty.
It'd be possible to coordinate with the operating system so it does not use the audio device until the button is pushed and that would be safe because it is advisory only. But I'm not sure how I'd pull that off either - maybe if I modified the OS image and found a free GPIO pin. Some kind of dedicated circuit could do it too but I can't fathom how to fit that in.
The debounce circuit I can wrap my head around and seems plausible. I don't want my phone clicking and popping if my fingers fall off the button though.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Wednesday January 09 2019, @01:05AM (1 child)
Doubtful. That's typically done with electronics. I'm thinking hold-to-talk is the most practical implementation for a momentary switch. A latched switch would doubtless be more bulky. Could still be done, but you'd have a lump somewhere, anyway. You could build a FET switch driven by a toggled latch on a somewhat flat stick-on PCB, and use those to switch the microphone with alternate presses; that'd both prevent the clicks of accidentally letting go of the switch and give you a way to switch softly by slowing the gate of the FET up a bit. But you really would have yourself a lump, and you'd need to run power out to it as well. It could be worse. Get a hard case, cut a hole out to accommodate the lump, and it'll at least be consistently thick and somewhat protected.
That will depend on both the mic and the (pre)amp it is driving. Have to cut and try to see. A softly switched FET as I described above is probably a good way to attack that if it is a problem.
Now you're opening an entirely new can of worms. Would you have to root the phone? I'm thinking they're not going to just let you at the audio input device without an argument. Plus, you need the phone to somehow be aware the switch was pushed, that "free GPIO pin" isn't a given on either the actual availability or programability fronts. If you find it, now you also need to find a way to tell it in software that doesn't break everything else, too.
The more constraints you put on this, the harder it will be. The basic task — making the microphone listen-proof under control of the OS and malefactors bonking the OS — isn't bad. Doing it in a "this is the way a great designer would have done it" fashion, that's probably something that will take a very significant effort.
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If you enjoy TV, you have a stake in a medium rarely well done.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Wednesday January 09 2019, @01:32AM
Not my current phone anyway. I already run a non-manufacturer OS on it.
I still think there is a chance such a circuit could be put together dead bug style and fit in the phone case, no lump. I definitely don't want a lump. Sounds like a fun challenge given enough patience. I'm sure people at the CIA are doing exactly the same type of work to get things as small as possible. :-)
The basic constraint is I want to live with it as my daily driver. No crackling. No clicks. No pops. Hopefully an externally exposed button lasts more than 6 months on the first try. I guess it's possible the pre-amp in my phone is tolerant of switching. Have you run into pre-amps that are?
Of course the manufacturers have beyond enough real estate on the board to fit all of this in themselves. Those bastards.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Tuesday January 08 2019, @02:02AM (4 children)
Can you do that on a non-rooted phone?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 08 2019, @02:05AM (3 children)
Thankfully, I have no idea. Why would anyone here buy a phone you can't easily root though?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by kazzie on Tuesday January 08 2019, @02:02PM
In order to have a hardware keyboard on it.
Blackberry make android phones with keyboards (that aren't out of my price range) but they also make a business out of ultra-securing their bootloader so you can't root them. I thought long and hard before eventually getting one.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @11:53AM (1 child)
because they had the phone I wanted, with physical buttons, right type, and I trusted the vendor.
I can't afford to brick it
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday January 09 2019, @12:03PM
Ah, so you're unhappy with the choice that you made then?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @11:36PM (4 children)
I use fdroid and used to be able to disable Google play completely, no more. What other mobile OS is there that will work with all carriers and doesn't have a backchannel to the Googleplex?
(Score: 2) by Apparition on Tuesday January 08 2019, @12:48AM
iOS.
(Score: 2) by zeigerpuppy on Tuesday January 08 2019, @01:20AM
SailfishOS - it's remarkably good but only runs on a few devices
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @10:44AM
BlackBerry 10 devices are available for all US carriers and are still functional. Android 4.3 compatibility, no Google services. Getting a little long in the tooth, BlackBerry World (application marketplace) has shutdown (not that it had much), some community support (GCC port, etc). Later releases (10.3 perhaps) did integrate Amazon App store.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday January 08 2019, @02:02PM
And of course my legacy Nokia N900 and N9.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @03:11PM
yeah and the "specifically on feature phones" is a threat to your and my desires to avoid this iteration of the borg menace. At least windows 10 is confined to pcs.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Knowledge Troll on Monday January 07 2019, @11:11PM
Jeff> Alexa, buy olives from Whole Foods.
Alexa> Ok. Buying all of Whole Foods.
The rest is history. [nytimes.com] Actually going through with it sure was an expensive way to cover up that automated transcription mistake.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @11:19PM (2 children)
I'm confused, is that really up? 500 Million sounds so much bigger...
https://xkcd.com/2091/ [xkcd.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 08 2019, @01:04AM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @09:39AM
Even worse, some use short scale and some use long scale values. Looking at wikipedia, it seems a almost a tie between pure long scale and pure short scale (just looking at the map, did not count the countries or population), but then there's a lot that use a mix, some use both and few that use another system.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @01:25AM (3 children)
Noooooooooooooo!
Bah. I got my feature phone because I didn't want to be plugged into Alphabet DBA Google's matrix. The cell network's matrix is good enough for me.
I just have it set up the way I want, okay?! [xkcd.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Tuesday January 08 2019, @01:56AM
We'll see. You might have a good year or two before they can push this, or longer if at least some phones targeted for developing countries do not pick up the feature. I'm guessing they will zero-rate any requests made through the service. They'll probably add more languages, too; it's currently available in English, Hindi, Indonesian, French, German, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, Russian, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Traditional Chinese, and Tamil.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Tuesday January 08 2019, @02:40PM
You just want the Alphabet matrix to pay your cell carrier to obtain it instead.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @03:10PM
I, too, thought I was safe.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Appalbarry on Tuesday January 08 2019, @01:55AM (4 children)
I have no interest in shouting commands at TVs, phones, or "smart" speakers. I am very happy to use buttons or type.
Plus, I've never found voice recognition to be more than half-ways reliable. Maybe I need a SoCal accent?
What I haven't managed to do is just kill off the endlessly popping-up Google Assistant screen. I even went so far as yelling "Fuck off Google! I hate you" at it, but it didn't work.
(Score: 4, Funny) by takyon on Tuesday January 08 2019, @01:58AM
I sense... a brainwave scanner in your future. :-)
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @05:37AM
An Albanian accent works best.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @09:42AM
I shout at computers and TVs and phones and i don't even have any kind of smart speaker or similar feature (atleast not enabled) in them.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @02:47PM
I get so sick and tired of Siri misunderstanding what I say, and I think it's because I don't speak in patterns that Siri really understands. (And don't get me started that it cuts me off mid-thought thinking I'm done). The other day I was sending a simple one sentence message (replacing the recipient and the message to protect the guilty.)
Me: "Text Mr. X"
Siri: "What do you want to say to Mr. X?"
Me: "Blah blah blah..."
Siri: "OK. I'll tell Mr. X Blah blah boom. Ready to send it?"
Me: "Change it."
Siri: "OK. What do you want to say?"
Me: "Blah blah blah..."
Siri: "OK. I'll tell Mr. X Blah bling blah. Ready to send it?"
Me: "Change it!"
Siri: "OK. What do you want to say?"
Me: "Blah blah blah"
Siri: "OK. I'll tell Mr. X Bibbidy bobbidy boo. Ready to send it?"
Me: "CHANGE IT YOU PIECE OF SHIT!"
Siri: "OK. I'll tell Mr. X You Piece Of Shit. Ready to send it?"
Me: Sigh.
Siri: "OK. There it goes!"
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @05:45AM
They are not expected to first buy and then carry around a personal tracking device for the rest of their lives ... yet.
Fuck google and the rest of the slave masters. We must fight them while we still have a theoretical chance to do so.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 08 2019, @07:16AM (1 child)
Google has been careless/greedy with my online data before. Fukem!
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Tuesday January 08 2019, @02:49PM
But there is no way for Google to make increased profits if they're careful with your online data and not greedy about whoring it out. And if they don't increase their profits they die.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday January 08 2019, @04:16PM
Yeah, but people bought Alexa on purpose, and large numbers actually use it, and Amazon makes a shitload of money from them using when they order stuff from Amazon.
Google's assistant is on the phone (including mine... I have a Galaxy S9), but I doubt it represents even a fraction of the financial mass that the Echos do. Potentially, eventually, perhaps, but in reality right now... not seeing it. Also, my SO has an iPhone, and she literally never uses Siri for anything, having come to the conclusion, and I am quoting carefully here, that Siri is "as dumb as a box of rocks."
OTOH, we use the various Echo devices around here constantly. We find them extremely convenient and useful. Sometimes I "okay google" to set a timer or make a hands-free phone call to someone when we're out and about, but that's really all the use I get out of it.
I think this is one of those apples-and-oranges situations.
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Sex on television won't hurt you.
As long as you don't fall off.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09 2019, @12:28PM
How can it be uninstalled?