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posted by martyb on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:21AM   Printer-friendly
from the It's-not-easy-being-white-supremacists dept.

Over at the CCN, Gab is having trouble even getting its bitcoin on.

The declaration by free speech social network Gab that the firm was still allowed on Square’s bitcoin-friendly Cash App after being banned on other platforms may have been premature.

This emerged after the social media platform that is occasionally referred to as “alt-right Twitter,” over its popularity with extremist right-wingers, disclosed that the personal Square Cash account of the firm’s founder and CEO, Andrew Torba, had been deactivated.

Things like this are just bad for business.

Earlier this month as CCN reported, Gab had posted a tweet that gave the impression that Square’s Cash App — which allows users to buy and sell bitcoin — had reactivated Gab’s access. According to Breaker magazine, Square might have unknowingly reactivated an account belonging to Gab but will continue to “pro-actively delete any new accounts that it learned were connected with Gab.”

[...] Besides Square, other platforms that have banned Gab in the recent past include cryptocurrency exchange Coinbase, online payment processing firm Stripe, bitcoin payment service provider BitPay and online payments system PayPal.

Currently, bitcoin, as well as money orders and checks sent to its post office address, are the only ways for Gab to process payments for its premium service, GabPro. On January 8, Gab announced that it had integrated with open-source crypto payment processor BTCPay Server.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:45AM (27 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:45AM (#785426)

    When a gay couple wants to buy a cake, how would the world react to them being banned from all forms of digital payment?

    There are certain types of business where you should have no control over who can use your service.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:58AM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:58AM (#785428)

      Yeah but, what if it was a gay nazis for jesus with a picture of mohamed cake?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:56PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:56PM (#785572)

        What flavor cake, and does it have rainbow frosting?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:30PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:30PM (#785696)

          Vanilla and yes [howtocakeit.com].

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:32PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:32PM (#785699)

            Ah, crap, ignore that comment.

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by jbruchon on Saturday January 12 2019, @09:16PM

        by jbruchon (4473) on Saturday January 12 2019, @09:16PM (#785672) Homepage

        Only on Tuesdays.

        --
        I'm just here to listen to the latest song about butts.
    • (Score: 1, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday January 12 2019, @08:37AM (3 children)

      by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Saturday January 12 2019, @08:37AM (#785432) Homepage Journal

      Masterpiece Cakeshop, that one went to SC. And SC said, he doesn't have to bake that cake. And Justice Kennedy said, maybe in another case where things are a little different, it can go the other way. But, I replaced Justice Kennedy. And I'm getting ready to replace Justice Ginsberg. MAGA!!

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @08:46AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @08:46AM (#785434)

        I'm not talking about the bakery. People talk about going to a cashless society, but then want to be able to control who is allowed to spend money based on their beliefs.

        There is no law that requires you to like your customers.

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:54AM

          by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:54AM (#785452) Homepage Journal

          You said cake. But you were talking about the money. And I knew you were talking about the money. And, I think everybody knew that. I don't speak for everybody. Unfortunately. But, I think they knew. They knew, I'm almost certain.

          The money. Does anyone remember WikiLeaks? They put out those very interesting Cables. From Crooked H's State Department. And, from her predecessors. Going back to the '70s (fabulous times -- Disco). And the Banks hated it. The Credit Cards hated it. They said, "oh, you can't say that, what you're saying has to be illegal!" MasterCard, Pay Pal and some others. They made it very hard to send money to WikiLeaks, right? And this went on for years. Very rough time for WikiLeaks.

          And, what about our 2nd. Amendment? You have your Citi Card, you want to buy a gun, great. Unless you're under 21. Because Citi won't pay for that one. And, they have some other rules too. Where, they'll block the payment. They're doing Gun Control through the card. They call it Corporate Responsibility. And I wish our big movie & video game Studios had it. Because that's where the biggest, biggest problem is!! youtu.be/0C_IBSuXIoo [youtu.be]

      • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:55AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:55AM (#785740) Journal

        The worst thing I ever did, was to appoint Ginsberg to the Supreme Court. - Abraham Lincoln

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @09:02AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @09:02AM (#785435)
      That also tells volumes about independence of cryptocurrencies from the state.
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Saturday January 12 2019, @11:54AM

        by maxwell demon (1608) on Saturday January 12 2019, @11:54AM (#785472) Journal

        Well, you don't really need to use Square's Cash App to transmit bitcoins. And of course as soon as you try to exchange bitcoins for state-issued money, the state gets involved.

        As long as as you stay in bitcoin, all you need is the ability of connecting to the bitcoin network. Of course in principle that part could also be regulated by the state (through specific blocking at the ISP level).

        --
        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @06:08PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @06:08PM (#785951)

        it tells shit all about that, you lazy minded jackass. it says that these dumb fuckers should have used square.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:07AM (8 children)

      by sjames (2882) on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:07AM (#785442) Journal

      Agreed. For anyone who doesn't care because they don;t like the alt-right (I must say, I don't like them), keep in mind that in the crazy world today there's no telling what sort of speech may fall into disfavor tomorrow.

      It's not much of a stretch to imagine financial institutions deciding they don't like people talking about a need to regulate financial institutions, for example.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:35AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:35AM (#785449)

        keep in mind that in the crazy world today there's no telling what sort of speech may fall into disfavor tomorrow.

        We already know: Whistleblowers, activists, and journalists who challenge the status quo. MasterCard and other companies banned people from giving money to Wikileaks, for example. Allowing financial institutions to do whatever they please is a recipe for disaster, and the people who are reveling in the fact that people they don't like are being destroyed at the moment are profoundly short-sighted.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @03:25PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @03:25PM (#785535)

          MasterCard and other companies banned people from giving money to Wikileaks, for example.

          That's why in EU, you can just send money transfer with SEPA transfer

          https://shop.wikileaks.org/donate#db7 [wikileaks.org]
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area [wikipedia.org]

          Actually I've rather rarely used my CC here in Germany. I pay for rent, taxes, etc., all with SEPA transfer. And it's even free.

          In US or Canada I could send transfers too, but only from business accounts, which is kind of annoying. And even then, people still use the antiquated cheques.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:23PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:23PM (#785691)

            There are alternatives until there aren't, because people stand by and do nothing as financial institutions take control over everything and work hand-in-hand with oppressive governments.

            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:58AM

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:58AM (#785741) Journal

              You do realize that very thing has been happening for as long as there have been financial institutions? The Bank of England is infamous for having financed Napoleon, as well as those fighting against Napoleon.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:26PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:26PM (#785890)

              There are alternatives until there aren't, because people stand by and do nothing as financial institutions take control over everything and work hand-in-hand with oppressive governments.

              Only if you have useless government. In EU banks didn't like the legislation to force SEPA either. Then they really didn't like the processing timelines for SEPA that keeps going down. Now I can send you a transfer that will get there in a few seconds, but banks don't like that either. So they charge fees for instant transfers.

              There was large opposition to free EU-wide roaming from the telecoms too. But now it's reality and somehow telcoms still here? Imagine that!

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @02:05PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @02:05PM (#785502)

        keep in mind that in the crazy world today there's no telling what sort of speech may fall into disfavor tomorrow.

        There is. They are going to ban any critic of Islam. [8ch.net] The people behind the mass bannings from social media have all been found to be on the payroll of Saudi Arabia or Qatar, or a step removed from someone who is. They control NATO's national security agencies so nobody is going to do anything about it. Trump is still trying to make a deal with them while they're lining him up for impeachment and execution.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @05:03PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @05:03PM (#785578)

        Aren't there "religious freedom laws" that allow de facto discrimination based on a customer's failure to meet the proprietor's litmus test of religiosity (e.g., the cake bakery)? If the financial institutions share a belief that "hate groups are bad" can't they use that litmus test to decide who they want to do business with (just like the cake bakery)?

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:08AM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:08AM (#785745) Journal

          Fail for two reasons.

          First, bankers religion is money. Their only reason for existing, is to make ever more money. It makes no financial sense to turn away worshippers of money.

          Second, that bit about "This note is legal tender for all debts public and private". The law of the land doesn't say "This not is legal tender for all debts, unless we don't like you." Such a law would justify all manner of discrimination, against any group, any time, or any place.

          When all is said and done, when a banking institution refuses to do buisness with any group, they are discriminating. Said institution is no better than either Antifa, or any white supremacist group. The only criteria that a financial institution should use in doing business, is whether that business is profitable, and whether the institution is risking any of their own money.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @02:10PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @02:10PM (#785507)

      Being gay is not a choice. Being a disgusting nazi racist mysoginist piece of shit is.

      Civilized societies do not discriminate against things people have no control over, like gender, sexual orientation, ethnic origin, etc.

      Civilized societies DO however discriminate against things civilization have been trying for centuries to eradicate, like slavery, tyranny, mysoginy, war, barbarism, savagery, hatred and bloodshed. That's the whole fucking point of civilization.

      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @03:37PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @03:37PM (#785540)

        Civilized societies DO however discriminate against things civilization have been trying for centuries to eradicate, like slavery, tyranny, misogyny, sodomy, kikery, adultery, premarital sex, war, abortion, barbarism, negro savagery, impiousness, hatred and bloodshed. That's the whole fucking point of civilization.

        Fixed that for you.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @04:03PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @04:03PM (#785921)

          negro savagery

          I think this suggests my next thing to study after the November Revolution and the Sparticist Uprising, perhaps where I should have started in the first place, and so it is time to turn my thoughts closer to home to continue to understand the nature of inequality, struggle, and revolution.

          For example, the Stalinist Communist Party USA [wikipedia.org] (CPUSA) was involved in defending the Scottsboro Boys [wikipedia.org] and in the early civil rights movement. The situation in the Democratic Republic of the Congo [consortiumnews.com] is looking to be a flashpoint for World War 3, based on my extrapolations and recent wswswswswsws reporting of USA military activity, but the ICFI doesn't seem to be much involved in DR Congo. (ICFI focus now is on GM workers and Tamils in India and Sri Lanka, with cheerleading for the teachers' strikes in the USA and the Gilet Jaunes in France.)

          There is much to be learned here to understand how... Things Fall Apart (Chinua Achebe), which is a novel I recommend everybody read (probably the only worthwhile thing I was exposed to in my government education). Our right-wing commentators and readers might find sympathy for the main character, Okonkwo, as invaders arrive in his homeland and proceed to tear his culture apart.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Tokolosh on Saturday January 12 2019, @03:48PM

        by Tokolosh (585) on Saturday January 12 2019, @03:48PM (#785545)

        And how do civilized societies progress? By free speech.

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @05:08PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @05:08PM (#785582)

        Being gay is not a choice. Being a disgusting nazi racist mysoginist piece of shit is.

        I don't recall marking the "disgusting" box on my Social Outcast form.

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:55PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:55PM (#785648)

      When a gay couple wants to buy a cake, how would the world react to them being banned from all forms of digital payment?

      The flaw in your comparison is that what's happening to Gab is the world reacting.

  • (Score: 2, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @08:41AM (12 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @08:41AM (#785433)

    Let's punch one!

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @05:27PM (11 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @05:27PM (#785589)

      In order to punch Nazis, you must be a socialist, because then you will understand the objective, historical reasons why we punch Nazis.

      When we get Nazis, it is a clear sign that capitalism has run its course and is nearing the end of its curve of development [marxists.org]. The ruling classes promote Nazis, because Nazis are the only means they know of containing socialism.

      It is also important to understand the 1917 October Revolution before we go around punching Nazis.¹ Punching Nazis is all well and good, but it is absolutely critical we understand the objective, material logic of punching Nazis, otherwise we get another Stalin. The Nazi tendencies are the historically proven forces the ruling classes deploy to counter the natural tendency towards working class control of the means of production, and the Stalinists are what happens when we go around punching Nazis without a clear political orientation focused on--this term is off-putting but nonetheless descriptive--dictatorship of the proletariat by democratic means. Personally I think we need to open our ears to the anarchists as well (but not the anarcho-capitalists, sorry to Mr. Vim) in order to create a sustainable system that does not evolve into Stalinist dictatorship of the bureaucracy.

      Just as the bourgeois revolutions were inevitable, leading to globalist capitalism, so too is an international proletarian permanent revolution. However, we are participants in these events, and the proletarian permanent revolution cannot happen until we take correct, carefully considered, philosophically and theoretically grounded action to bring it about. (Compare and contrast the "mytho-macho bullshit," as I called it, of the right-wing militia movements in Montana and Michigan.)

      When we go punch Nazis, there is a danger that we, ourselves, become Nazis. Only rigorous study of history and philosophy stands between our own transformation into Nazis and Stalinists and finally capitalist social-democrats. If this happens, then the curve of capitalism begins again. Thus, the proletarian revolution is patient. Capitalism seems to be able to renew itself, but only on the basis of world war, catastrophe, death, and famine. Only a sociopath could view such disasters and crimes against humanity as a reasonable component of any kind of system, even as it gives the terrible promise of lending a phoenix-like nature to capitalism.

      We will keep repeating this cycle, perhaps with eras spanning centuries of reversion to feudalism, followed by new bourgeois revolutions, until we get it right. It is in our best interest to get it right sooner rather than kicking the can down the road.

      ¹ This is a starting point for understanding the nature of the tasks before us when we punch Nazis. Perhaps more importantly, we must also understand the failures, which are many. A study of the October Revolution leads naturally to a study of the German November Revolution, the Sparticist uprising that cost us Luxemburg, the assassination of Trotsky, Hitler's rise to power over the ineffective KPD and SPD, and the Comintern's turning away from international revolution towards the bankrupt idea of "socialism in one country."

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by EEMac on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:05PM (8 children)

        by EEMac (6423) on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:05PM (#785602)

        In order to punch Nazis, you must be a socialist

        Or maybe you just want to punch people who disagree with you. Then you pretend they're Nazis to give yourself a socially acceptable excuse. This is definitely the case for one large activist group in America today.

        To be clear, "you" refers to "people who punch Nazis", not necessarily the AC poster I'm replying to.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:15PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:15PM (#785611)

          Yeah, I think you get it. Punching people we disagree with because we just can't stand letting their ideas fall on our virgin ears is the road to hell.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 14 2019, @08:20AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 14 2019, @08:20AM (#786353)

            Punching Nazis is itself an expression of free speech. Are you trying to censor my punching of Nazis? You authoritarian twat! Here, let me once again express myself, on your face!!!

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:15AM (5 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:15AM (#785750) Journal

          To punch Nazis, you must become Nazi. It matters little that the socialists take on a different name to distinguish themselves from the other group of Nazis.

          • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @08:53AM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @08:53AM (#785837)

            You know nothing about socialists, obviously. It's not very cool to bash something without knowing it. Please do some reading. I would suggest you start with Marx.

            Try it, you'll be surprised.

            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @10:09AM (3 children)

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @10:09AM (#785847) Journal

              Oh, please. Socialism has been around for a long time. It has been shown to work, many times, on small scales. As soon as socialism is scaled up beyond some limited point, it breeds corruption faster than almost any other known form of government. There is a list of nations that have adopted socialism - Russia (or the Soviet), China, Cuba, Venezuela. Cuba has done the best job with socialism, the others have all been rather dramatic and dismal failures.

              There is another list of nations that have adopted socialism to a limited extent. They range from moderate successes to failure.

              I have an idea: why don't you make a list of nations that have gone full-on Socialist, without any reservations, that have respected human rights (including the right to life) and have succeeded? I mean, resounding success. Show us when and where socialism has worked on a massive scale, better than any other form of government.

              It is pretty safe to say that communism or socialism is on par with Islamic governments. In fact, I could probably make the effort to demonstrate that those deist governments might actually work better than socialism.

              If you are going to claim that I am ignorant, you need to make at least a minimal effort to educate me - get to work, Comrade!

              Let me counter with - socialists know nothing of history and socialism.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:30PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:30PM (#785891)

                You know nothing about the world. And all you do is call everyone a socialist outside your radical-right circle. Fuck, you'll call Canadians socialist too for having universal healthcare coverage?

                It is pretty safe to say that communism or socialism is on par with Islamic governments

                Yeah, thought as much. Fuck you and your kind of small thinking idiots. You clearly know nothing how most of the rest of the world functions.

                • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @03:03PM (1 child)

                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @03:03PM (#785910) Journal

                  No, fuck you, sideways, with a rake. I invited you to point out any nation which had adopted communism/socialism, and succeeded, but you don't take the opportunity. Now, you pretend that I've lived all my life in a fucking village, and don't know how the world works outside that village.

                  No, I don't call everyone outside my circle a socialist. The world is even bigger than just my circle and socialism. For instance, I mentioned Islam, which is roughly on par with socialism when it comes to respecting human rights.

                  Your socialism is just about the biggest enemy of humanity. Twenty million corpses in China, another twenty million in Russia - but you and your ilk want another opportunity to prove yourselves right.

                  Once again, Castro's Cuba is the single best example of "socialism works" - and that example isn't especially great. Unlike some other examples, Castro didn't starve or execute huge segments of his population. Cubans did, however, suffer under Castro. Without Castro and communism, Cuba could have been as wealthy and up-to-date as any other Carribean country, and maybe even better than most others. 90 miles off of the Florida coast, tourism and trade, money just pouring in. Could have, but didn't.

                  Give us examples, numbnuts. You can't, so you get angry with me, and insult me.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 14 2019, @08:26AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 14 2019, @08:26AM (#786358)

                    Runaway is American, in the worst formulation of that attribute. Best to not read what he posts, it is either incoherent "old man" stuff, or the latest Islamophobe stuff from the usual sources, and Faux News. We all love Runaway, and we all want to remove his liver and bury him in a shallow grave down by Mine Creek.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:44PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:44PM (#785893)

        What Nazis need is a hug, not a punch.

        Nazis belief is that they stand against the "other" that will "kill them" or "oppress them". If you punch a Nazi, it just breeds more Nazis. The same with terrorists - if you kill terrorists you just breed more of them. The only solution is re-education, and a hug is a first step. You can only tear down the hate wall of Nazis through conversation.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4gly9n9RBo [youtube.com]

        Of course they may need to be put in some sort of a holding place until they stop being so paranoid about "others", but eventually it works.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @05:04PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @05:04PM (#785936)

          Yes, I like this. We can only turn to war when love and liberty have been exhausted, and only for so long as is absolutely necessary. Our own spiritual strength in love and liberty can make these nearly inexhaustible.

          Yet we must be aware. History indicates that as a Nazi movement progresses from quantitative to qualitative [marxists.org], war becomes necessary, for a limited time. I have vague hope that once a socialist culture [wsws.org] is able to emerge, war can become vestigial and fade away.

  • (Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @09:38AM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @09:38AM (#785436)

    Who cares?

    I saw a bunch of nazi bullshit propaganda torrents on The Pirate Bay [thepiratebay10.org]. Go get it, racist scumbags.

    So it's not like the scum don't have a way to distribute their hateful ideology.

    But again, who cares? The racist/anti-semitic/misogynistic assholes will find a new place to spew their hate.

    Soon there will be a bag.ia or similar, because some folks are too stupid to figure out what Derek Black did, although he had a lot of help.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday January 12 2019, @11:09AM (5 children)

      by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Saturday January 12 2019, @11:09AM (#785454) Homepage Journal

      Have you heard that poem, do you remember the poem? "First they came for the Nazis. And I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Nazi."

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @05:13PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @05:13PM (#785584)

        Have you heard that poem, do you remember the poem? "First they came for the Nazis. And I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Nazi."

        GP AC here.

        I have. In fact, I paraphrased it to a friend (about a completely different issue) just 8 hours ago or so.

        What's your point? In this case, "they" aren't the government. They are private entities who are exercising their own rights.

        And yes, I do get the irony, given that Niemoller's poem [wikipedia.org] was decrying the apathy of those who didn't stand up to the Nazis. Well, I'm standing up to the Nazis and their ilk, and they won't come for you because I do. You're welcome.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:13PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:13PM (#785609)

          You are my hero! Marry me and give birth to my pure anti-nazi child!

        • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:22AM (2 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:22AM (#785753) Journal

          You seem to have missed the lessons of Nazi Germany completely.

          In this case, "they" aren't the government.

          Neither were the Nazis the government, early on. It took time for the Nazis to become the government. You intolerant assholes who think that it's alright to punch Nazis are in the same place that the Nazis were around 1920 ro 1925. You are openly bigoted today, and you intend to use that bigotry to gain power over the people you don't like. Further, you intend to either use the government to enforce your bigotry, or you intend to take over the government so that you may directly enforce your bigotry.

          “Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”

          ― Friedrich W. Nietzsche

          You have, indeed, become the monsters that you fear.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @06:19AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @06:19AM (#785816)

            Same AC again.

            I never said I wanted to punch *anyone*.

            And I never said anyone shouldn't be able to express themselves either.

            But I can express myself too. And I choose to say that I think the hateful rhetoric of Nazis/Neo-Nazis/white "nationalists", etc are scum whose bigoted, hateful ideas are repugnant to me.

            I also specifically pointed out that despite gab.ai's current issues with payment processors didn't stop such folks from spewing their hateful ideology.

            So go back and read what I actually wrote.
            1. Did I advocate violence against anyone? Nope.
            2. Did I advocate censoring anyone? Nope.
            3. Did I suggest that I wanted/needed anyone else to share or support my disgust for hateful, violent scum? Nope.
            4. Did I attempt to suppress such hateful bigoted ideas? Nope. In fact, I posted a link to where you can find such things.

            What I did say is that I don't have much feeling one way or another (cf. meh [urbandictionary.com]) as to whether or not gab.ai can use (or not) any particular private enterprise.

            I support *everyone's* right to freely express themselves, including those who choose to distance themselves from speech/ideas they find repugnant.

            I did say that I find the bigoted/hateful rhetoric of Nazis/Neo-nazis/whatever those scumbags want to call themselves to be repugnant, uncivilized and personally offensive. I most certainly did not advocate violence or censorship against *anyone*.

            But I have free speech rights too. And I use them. As Justice Jackson put it [freedomforuminstitute.org]:

            “If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence.”

            And that applies to everyone. Including me. I even included a pretty good (IMHO) explanation [xkcd.com] as to why Square is within their own rights to do business with whomever they choose.

            So go ahead and say whatever you like, whenever you like. I have no issue with that. I will do the same.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @07:21AM

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @07:21AM (#785825) Journal

              Perhaps I confused you with another AC - you guys all look alike, you know. ;^)

              And I choose to say that I think the hateful rhetoric of Nazis/Neo-Nazis/white "nationalists", etc are scum whose bigoted, hateful ideas are repugnant to me.

              On that, we can agree. I might not say that they are all scum - some are just misguided fools, some are fearful idiots, some are scum, some may just "go along to get along". But, yeah, the whole thing sucks.

              So go ahead and say whatever you like, whenever you like. I have no issue with that. I will do the same.

              We agree 100% on that, as well.

              I well and truly despise any major platform that goes about censoring views that they don't approve of. At some point, an entity has so much power, that they should be blocked from deplatforming anyone or anything that isn't clearly illegal. It's fine for me to start a site, accumulate some small number of users, and censor their views. But, if I should reach a billion users, then censorship should be outlawed on my part. On Twitter, it's fine to have an account, with several hundred, or even thousands of followers, and to censor or block views that you don't like. But, Twitter itself is just too damned big to permit them to censor. Not only do they not have a right - they have an obligation to permit free speech.

              We are going wrong, somewhere here. When 90% or more of the tech community assumes some kind of authority to censor views that they don't like, we are pretty will fucked. The bastards WILL come for me next year, and for you the following year, and eventually get around to all Soylentils, because we all share a love of free speech.

              Well, they'll come for most of us.

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:13PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:13PM (#785608)

      We must allow the Nazis a platform to spew their filth. Once we begin down the road of censorship of ideas, it is next to impossible to turn back. We will have become fascists ourselves! Control and falsification of information was one of the central corruptions of the Stalinist bureaucracy after the October Revolution was betrayed.

      The narrative we seem to be given in the MSM is that the Nazis have comic-book like powers of rhetoric and animal magnetism, which is rubbish. The only thing that lends power to their lies are objective social conditions such as wealth stratification and the economic flattening of the working class, which makes it appear to historically privileged sections of the working class, such as white, heterosexual... you get the idea, that they are "losing ground" to other demographics, but they are only losing ground relative to the stagnation of other demographics.

      Yet the objection conditions are quite real. The Nazis are not wrong to point out that they are losing ground. Their failure rests in their tribal, unthinking search for scapegoats rather than examining the social forces causing their misery. Everybody is losing ground. That is simply how capitalism works.

      Let the Nazis vomit up the undigested barbarism of capitalism. We must have faith that the light of truth will win, and we must also work towards a society that prevents the objective material conditions that cause people to, out of desperation, listen to their bullshit.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by jbruchon on Saturday January 12 2019, @09:37PM (2 children)

        by jbruchon (4473) on Saturday January 12 2019, @09:37PM (#785682) Homepage

        My perspective on it is that people we don't like must be allowed to speak, but for two very different reasons. The first is because the core value of freedom of speech is crucial to the progress of humanity and the seeking of truth, and censorship in any form is a way to hide the truth and hold back our growth as humans. That sort of ties into the second: how do you define and deconstruct the things that aren't okay? You must have a point of reference to work from. The most vile speech on the internet being censored only drives it underground and makes it attractive (a fruit of the forbidden tree, if you will) to the young, the rebellious, the mentally handicapped, and the psychologically vulnerable. You can't steer people away from bad ideas if they are being exposed to them only through back room whispers. Your loss of steering is tripled by a strong interest in the forbidden concepts stemming from heavy-handed censorship.

        We have already seen this in the American attitudes toward sex, with an odd combination of hyper-sexuality and high-class eggshell-walking suppression of human sexuality in public and even most private situations, most recently exacerbated by the obscene excesses of #MeToo stifling even the most respectful sexual expressions such as asking someone if they'd like to go out for coffee with you. The end result is a lot of people who can't express themselves normally and develop serious behavioral aberrations as a result of such pressures. The behavioral sink [wikipedia.org] from the mouse utopia experiments [youtube.com] (on which the animated movie The Secret of NIMH was based) is a rather frightening example.

        If you try to sweep the Nazis under the rug, don't be surprised when your actions breed a fuckton more Nazis. It has happened before and will happen again. Entire civilizations have fallen because of the failure to realize this lesson fully. Will Rome fall again? [history.com] We shall see.

        --
        I'm just here to listen to the latest song about butts.
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by sigterm on Saturday January 12 2019, @09:39AM (9 children)

    by sigterm (849) on Saturday January 12 2019, @09:39AM (#785437)

    First, activists smear their opponents by calling them all racists and misogynists, usually without any evidence or even with made-up evidence.

    Then they start campaigns to have these horrible racists and misogynists deplatformed and deprived of income. Such campaigns do occasionally target some real far-right individuals, like Richard Spencer, but for the most part the victims of such craptivism are centrists and even moderate leftists, like the YouTuber Thunderf00t, who was recently labeled "alt-right", and the very much leftist professor Bret Weinstein who was basically hounded out of a job for not being sufficiently identitarian.

    All these deplatformed individuals will of course go looking for another platform that's a bit less intolerant of free speech, and once they sign up, the activists can use their mere presence on the platform to label it as "alt-right friendly", again based on the unproven and really quite absurd assertion that the "alt-right" is this huge movement comprising basically everyone not on the far left, and certainly anyone who doesn't express a burning hatred towards a certain orange-ish individual.

    Personally, I don't care about politics. At all. But I'm absolutely sick to my stomach of the abhorrent behaviour of these people who will gladly publicly harass anyone who dares to disagree with them on anything. They claim to fight against "oppression" and for "marginalized people", while simultaneously doing their utmost to oppress and marginalize anyone who dares to question their (in my opinion extremist) ideology.

    I've never used Twitter, but I've signed up for a Gab account. And I will be sending Mr Torba a check for a lifetime premium account that I'll probably never use.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by Gaaark on Saturday January 12 2019, @11:11AM (4 children)

      by Gaaark (41) on Saturday January 12 2019, @11:11AM (#785456) Journal

      But you won't send SoylentNews $20 to subscribe?

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 4, Funny) by sigterm on Saturday January 12 2019, @11:27AM (3 children)

        by sigterm (849) on Saturday January 12 2019, @11:27AM (#785460)

        >But you won't send SoylentNews $20 to subscribe?

        I might. But so far it seems I can have my comments modded "troll" entirely for free.

        But in any case, this is off topic.

        • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:30PM

          by Gaaark (41) on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:30PM (#785563) Journal

          Now, that's insightful! ;)

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:31AM (1 child)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:31AM (#785758) Journal

          Let me note that the (anti)fascists use a higher quality hatred in their troll mods when they mod me down. My troll mods have a much richer flavor than yours. ;^)

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:33PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:33PM (#785892)

            Wow, another stupid comment by Runaway. Imagine that! What's next from you? Equating the KKK and the Civil Rights Movement?

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by RandomFactor on Saturday January 12 2019, @12:42PM

      by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 12 2019, @12:42PM (#785479) Journal

      Nicely put.

      Opposed to censorship doesn't mean you are especially friendly to whackos, it means you are consistently neutral.

      GAB is just a more polite Twitter without the arbitrary enforcement and impossible to manage volumes of frothing spittle flying cray cray for me. YMMV depending on what channels and people you follow and what sorts you mute, obviously.

      --
      В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:47PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:47PM (#785894)

      I've never used Twitter, but I've signed up for a Gab account. And I will be sending Mr Torba a check for a lifetime premium account that I'll probably never use.

      That's rather ignorant statement. You should educate yourself about "Echo chambers" and the problem they cause before supporting one. Might as well send money to INCELs too.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:56PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:56PM (#785906)

        I once bought a Paul McCartney album, just because it was released as FLAC without DRM. Never listened to it.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @06:18PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @06:18PM (#785958)

      except richard spencer is, in fact, a mole that has been planted to cause this strife.

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by aristarchus on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:21AM (1 child)

    by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:21AM (#785447) Journal

    Not the aristarchus submission I would have pulled onto the front page! But then, I am not an editor, and they have weird and unpredictable ways.

    • (Score: 5, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday January 12 2019, @11:21AM

      by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Saturday January 12 2019, @11:21AM (#785458) Homepage Journal

      You made a Gift Sub, you put it in the Subs Queue. Thinking, "oh, they'll Torpedo this one, like so many others." Well, they didn't Torpedo it. They let it sail right through, very smoothly. But, you're unhappy. Very difficult person!!!!

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @12:35PM (34 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @12:35PM (#785477)

    Where are people who love freedom from oppression going to go to build the next meritrocracy? Seasteading and outer space seem like the only options. Maybe this time it can get done without bringing along baggage like human chattle too?

    Also, never forget that money in the bank/market is not yours. It will be taken from you if deemed "necessary". Here was a trial run: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Cypriot_financial_crisis [wikipedia.org]

    Is it a coincidence that there is about $20 trillion "saved" in 401ks, the US debt is about $20 trillion, the US military has about $20 trillion in unaccounted for spending, central banks have recently "injected" about $20 trillion, and US GDP is about $20 trillion?

    It looks like US savings *and* productivity are being used as margin by the government to fund itself.

    https://www.pionline.com/article/20130626/ONLINE/130629908/ici-us-retirement-assets-hit-record-208-trillion [pionline.com]
    https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124 [thebalance.com]
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff/2017/12/08/has-our-government-spent-21-trillion-of-our-money-without-telling-us/ [forbes.com]
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/stock-market-investors-its-time-to-hear-the-ugly-truth-2019-01-05 [marketwatch.com]

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @02:51PM (31 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @02:51PM (#785520)

      Some people just dont "get" why america worked

      And some people don't get that america didn't work.

      Sure, on the surface, it looks like the most prosperous, richest, fastest growing, most scientifically and technologically advanced country in the world.

      But dig a little deeper, and you find the bones of those it was built on. It started with a concerted, deliberate extermination campaign of those who were already there to steal their land, followed by a bloody, violent independance war. Those who worked the hardest to develop the land were slaves. The country was almost torn appart by one of the most vicious, violent and bloodiest civil war in the history of humanity, a war that still divides the country even today.

      Sure, the U.S. owns 50% of the world's wealth with only 5% of the population. But of all the western countries, it has the largest gap between rich and poor, the highest incarceration rate, the largest number of violent death, and one of the highest infant mortality rate. It is the most culturally violent and sexually repressed and disfunctional society of all the "civilized" nations. Americans are fat, ugly, unsophisticated, obnoxious, entitled, loud, and in poor health. Culturally speaking, they are superstitious, simplistic, predatory, isolationist, paranoid, and primitive. They are the only western country where the vast majority of the population speak only one language, and also the only one still practicing the death penalty. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

      On the surface, if you look at someone with terminal cancer, the cancer cells in his body are the most prosperous, fastest growing, well fed and oxygenated cells of all. Would you then say that becoming cancerous is the most succesful strategy for human cells, and that cancer "works" ? I think not.

      Now watch as hords of angry americans downmod this post to hell.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @03:21PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @03:21PM (#785532)

        one of the highest infant mortality rate.

        I didn't check the rest of your "facts" but happen to know this one is bs: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4856058/ [nih.gov]

        And your cancer analogy sucks because cancer cells appear deformed and ugly at a glance (look up cancer vs normal cell morphology): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Normal_and_cancer_cells_structure.jpg [wikimedia.org]

        So cancer cells are no more prosperous than a person is prosperous because they are mortally obese. Anyway, I just happen to know about bio. I suspect people with other expertise can debunk your other claims.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:05PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:05PM (#785550)

          So cancer cells are no more prosperous than a person is prosperous because they are mortally obese.

          So I guess you missed the part where I said that americans were fat, ugly, and in poor health...

          Americans are exactly like cancer. They multiply indiscriminately, spread/impose/force their culture/values to the entire world, monopolise all the resources of the planet for their own needs while letting the rest of the world deal with their rejects and polution, basically sucking the planet dry and slowly killing it, just like a cancer slowly drains and exhausts his host body to the death. Unfortunately, americans no longer have a monopoly on this behavior. It's been spreading for some time now to other "developping" nations, and in fact, to the entire human race in general.

          I suspect people with other expertise can debunk your other claims.

          This tells me all I need to know about you. I speak badly of americans, therefore I must be "debunked", regardless if my arguments have merrit or not.
          You have a primitive, tribal mind. Unfortunately, that's the case of the vast majority of people on Earth.

          • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:30PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:30PM (#785564)

            Originally, in your analogy cancer cells appeared to be "the best". Now they are simultaneously "fat, ugly, and in poor health":

            the cancer cells in his body are the most prosperous, fastest growing, well fed and oxygenated cells of all. Would you then say that becoming cancerous is the most succesful strategy for human cells, and that cancer "works" ? I think not.

            The analogy doesn't work, fix it or get over it.

            Unfortunately, americans no longer have a monopoly on this behavior. It's been spreading for some time now to other "developping" nations, and in fact, to the entire human race in general.

            Where are you getting your history from? You must have been exposed to something completely different to me if you think this behavior is new and "spreading", rather than being typical.

            This tells me all I need to know about you. I speak badly of americans, therefore I must be "debunked", regardless if my arguments have merrit or not.

            Not regardless. I regarded the couple of your arguments I had expertise in poorly. and then extrapolated to the others. It is just a heuristic, you could have responded with sources instead of saying I have "primitive mind"...

          • (Score: 1) by EEMac on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:13PM

            by EEMac (6423) on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:13PM (#785610)

            Americans are exactly like cancer. They multiply indiscriminately

            Fertility rate 1.7 [npr.org], below the 2.0 needed to sustain population. I'd say "try again", but really, don't bother.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:00PM (24 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:00PM (#785549) Journal

        It started with a concerted, deliberate extermination campaign of those who were already there to steal their land, followed by a bloody, violent independance war. Those who worked the hardest to develop the land were slaves.

        No, that's not how it started. It started with people fleeing religious persecution in Europe. They landed in a place that had already been depopulated by disease and conflicts between Indian tirbes. The Pilgrims weren't doing so well, and only made it because the local Algonquin Indians helped them. The Indians, for their part, were desperate to find new allies because the Iroquois were kicking their butts up and down the block. What ensued was a long period of Indians making alliances with various European powers, and with each other, and everyone jockeying for advantage. It was only at the end that the balance of power shifted against all the Indians of every tribe.

        Slaves did not do all the hard work in America. They did all the hard work in the South, on the plantations. People in the North did not own slaves. They did all the hard work themselves. Even in the South, 3/4's of the people owned no slaves and did the hard work themselves.

        It is the most culturally violent and sexually repressed and disfunctional society of all the "civilized" nations. Culturally speaking, they are superstitious, simplistic, predatory, isolationist, paranoid, and primitive. They are the only western country where the vast majority of the population speak only one language, and also the only one still practicing the death penalty. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

        Americans are more culturally violent than the Germans, Italians, and Japanese? They're more culturally violent than the French, British, Spanish, and Portuguese who depopulated, exploited, and colonized vast swathes of the Earth up until modern times? They're more culturally violent than the Russians who oppressed half of Europe for 70 years, and who violently suppressed democracy movements in at least three of their client states? They're more culturally violent than the Koreans who fought a vicious civil war in the 50's and in the 1980's were having massive battles in the streets in the South?

        Americans are fat, ugly, unsophisticated, obnoxious, entitled, loud, and in poor health.

        I see you've never been to England, Germany, France, Italy, any place in Central Europe, or even Australia. Germany has a far-right party called the AfD. France has Le Pen. Italy just elected a right-wing Prime Minister, Giuseppe Conte. Obnoxious? You've never seen Australians in Bali, Japanese in Thailand, Britons in Turkey, Germans in Mallorca, or French anywhere.

        Culturally speaking, they are superstitious, simplistic, predatory, isolationist, paranoid, and primitive. They are the only western country where the vast majority of the population speak only one language,

        Clearly, you've never studied history, and cannot be widely travelled. New York City is the acme of cultural refinement. There are towns in the midwest where people have never gone beyond a 100 mile radius. Paris is cosmopolitan, but those who live in the country's south are some of the most ignorant, provincial people you will ever meet. Tokyo is an ultra-modern city with every convenience, but go due west until you hit tiny fishing villages on the Sea of Japan and it's like travelling back in time.

        Speak one language? Well, as a former English teacher abroad I can tell you, my friend, that the vast majority of people in the West who study English (assuming that's not their mother tongue) learn it like Americans learn Spanish. That is, everyone "studies" it in school, but exceptionally few come to speak it. There are some outliers, of course, like the Dutch, but for them it's rather cheating calling learning English acquiring a second language since Dutch and English are only about a half step removed.

        In short, you're reflexively and ignorantly characterizing the entire country and everyone in it. The only thing you've revealed with your screed is that you know very little about history or geography. You've clearly not travelled widely and have a limited aquaintanceship.

        Do yourself a favor, and drop out for a couple years and backpack round the world. Avoid the cities. Stick to the small towns and countryside. Stick around for a while and learn the language and get to know the natives. Chafe against the differences when culture shock sets in. Then move on to the next place and do it again. You will come to have a far less simplistic perception of the world and its peoples.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:32PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:32PM (#785566)

          Germany has a far-right party called the AfD.

          AfD, like its English counterpart EDL, is not far-right. It is a single-issue party opposing the conquest of Germany by al-Qaeda [washingtonexaminer.com] which is passively or actively supported by every other German party. They correspondingly take elements from across the political spectrum, which will naturally include an imbalance of far-right nationalists who are the most interested in defending their homeland and culture from extermination.

          • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:23PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:23PM (#785613)

            A pack of lies that only seems true from within the warped view of right-wing ethno-nationalism.

            An injury to one is an injury to all. The "invaders" have more in common with white people in the working class in Germany and the United States than with any of the elites peddling the false promise of white exceptionalism. The international working class is the only social force with the objective capability to address the concerns that give rise to small-minded tribalism. Small minded-tribalism only serves the interests of those who are creating the desperate social conditions that make your bullshit seem rational.

          • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @08:13PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @08:13PM (#785655)

            If it looks like a Nazi, walks like a Nazi, and quacks like a Nazi ...

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:02PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:02PM (#785896)

            AfD, like its English counterpart EDL, is not far-right

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany [wikipedia.org]

            Quick, better correct the wikipedia then!!!

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Right-wing_populism [wikipedia.org]

        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:13PM (19 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:13PM (#785638)

          No, that's not how it started.

          Don't give me lessons about history, when it's very obvious that you learned history only from a very biased american point of view, and that you pick and chose very specific events and exceptions that counter my argument or prove yours. Once, the army of the United States massacred 300 native americans, women and children inlcuded, because they "dared" defy a new law forbidding the practice of indigenous rituals. Look it up, if you really care about history as much as you claim.

          Americans are more culturally violent than the Germans, Italians, and Japanese? They're more culturally violent than blah blah blah

          All civilizations had their savage periods. But even today, americans continue to promote in their movies, tv, music, etc, violence as an acceptable solution to resolve conflict, which is the perfect definition of barbarism. The typical image of a strong, manly american hero is a man with a gun in his hand. The bigger the gun, the better. Almost half the american population defend their right to bare arms more than their right to free speech.

          I see you've never been to England, Germany, France, Italy, any place in Central Europe, or even Australia. blah blah blah

          I've been to all these places, except australia. And a few others. You've only seen these countries through the bias of your american heritage. Americans stick out like a sore thumb in every single country they travel to, more so than any other tourist, precisely for the reasons I mentionned. And I also travelled extensively in to U.S, mostly east of the mississipi, and it's unbelievable the number of fat, obese, and unhealthy looking people you see in the streets of the average american town. Again, as an american, you probably don't see that, but as a foreigner, it's quite obvious.

          New York City is the acme of cultural refinement.

          New York is indeed as you say, but New York is but a fraction of the entire U.S. population. Again you cherry pick only what suits you. If all americans were like New-Yorkers, you wouldn't have a fucking disgusting wortless miserable sack of pus for president. And he is the one with the finger on the nuke button, not New-Yorkers.

          Do yourself a favor, and drop out for a couple years and backpack round the world.

          Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt.

          Avoid the cities.

          Yes, avoid places where most people live. Great idea.

          You will come to have a far less simplistic perception of the world and its peoples.

          The people with the most simplistic view of the world is the average trumptard. And clearly, they're the majority.
          I used to like travelling to the U.S. One thing I must say about the americans: They're nice people. Always smilling, always welcoming, always ready and eager to help. But after what happened two years ago, I lost all hope in them. And seeing what's going on in the world right now, I'm losing all hope in humanity as well.
          'Nuff said.

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:02PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @10:02PM (#785686)

            You're projecting. You're projecting HARD. The problems you are expressing are not actually problems with the parent poster nor with Americans, they're problems with YOU. Misery loves company.

            • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:26AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:26AM (#785756)

              Oh please, spare me the junk psychology. But since you seem to like it so much, I'll say to you that you're in denial, and you'd rather attack the messenger since you can't accept the message.

              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @03:43AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @03:43AM (#785778)

                Hahaha, junk psychology? Projection isn't something that someone came up with just to pick on you. It's a solid concept that just happens to explain your shitty behavior and makes you look like a fool on the internet. Cry all you want about it, but you're not some virtuous messenger with all the facts, you're just a whining jackass that wants to feel special and superior to others. Don't shoot the messenger, bro! I'm just giving you the truth!

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:11AM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:11AM (#785728)

            LOL, Trump gets elected and you lose your mind. That says a lot of really bad things about you. Let's completely ignore the fact that the President can't unilaterally do very many things, eh? He can't declare war, he can't pass laws, and he can't even re-negotiate treaties without the two houses of Congress involved. This is the sort of idiocy you get when you're infected with social justice cancer.

            • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:01AM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:01AM (#785743)

              Yep. I'm horrified by the fact that a majority of americans chose freely, willingly, and knowingly a well-established compulsive liar, narcissist, psychopath, con-man, sexual predator and child molester as their freaking president, and I'm the one who's lost his mind.

              If that says a lot of really bad things about me, I can't imagine what it must say about you Trump voters. Is that what you're all about ? Is that the message that you're trying to send to rest of the world ?

              "Here in America, land of the free, home of the brave, try to be the most disgusting, abominable, horrible, mysoginistic, xenophobic, sociopathic, miserable sack of pus you can possibly be, and we'll reward you by electing you president ! Murica Yeah !"

              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:32AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:32AM (#785760)

                How many of those allegations can you prove, and how many are "game of telephone" style repetition of bullshit you've been fed by your filter bubble based on a willfully and maliciously misinterpreted Access Hollywood tape from the 1990s? Stop being a fucking idiot sheep. I don't like Trump and didn't vote for Trump and I even voted straight-ticket Democrat in this last election because the Republicans had way too much control, but none of that was because of the appeal to emotion bullshit you just tried to pull. If anything, I wanted to vote for him just to spite dumb shit people who say dumb shit things like what I just read. You are the sort of sheep that hears someone is a -ist of some sort and blindly repeats it. Provide supporting citations for every single claim you just made or fuck off with your appeals to emotion, straw men, and red herrings. Furthermore, it's notable that you ignored most of what I wrote and only targeted Trump. Trump is all you can think about, eh? It seems Trump Derangement Syndrome is a real thing after all.

                • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:28PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:28PM (#785900)

                  Blah blah blah. You're so pathetic.

                  I wanted to vote for him just to spite dumb shit people who say dumb shit things like what I just read.

                  That's so mature of you. Ready to put in danger your future, your children's future, your country, your planet, just for the odd chance of pissing off some liberals. Captain Ahab at its finest.

                  You are the sort of sheep that hears someone is a -ist of some sort and blindly repeats it.

                  Oh shut up kid. Because that's obviously what you are, if not in age, clearly in mental age. I'm not repeating everything I heard someone else say, I've actually lived on Earth for more than five decades. And if you had too, you'd know full well what kind of trash Trump is, because you'd continuously heard about his antics throughout those years. The way he treats women around him, the way he treated the Miss Teen America pagent candidates, the fact that he doesn't pay his bills and drove numerous small businesses to bankrupcy because of that, the fact that he accumulated more than 1300 civil lawsuits in his carreer, the Trump University scam, etc, etc. I could go on and on, but I'm not going to do your research for you, pathetic lazy fuck.

                  As for your other points, it doesn't matter what real powers he has in the governement. What matters is that he's the democratically chosen president of the United States, that by electing him, americans declared to the world: "This is the man we want to speak on our behalf and to represent the american people to the rest of the world". In other words: "We want the world to think the american people are a bunch of classless, unsophisticated, uneducated, dishonest, lying, pussy-grabbing buffoons".

                  As for "citations", I'll leave you with this one:

                  "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot someone, and I still wouldn't lose any voters".

                  Yeah, even the orange clown himself thinks his suppoters are just a bunch of stupid morons, and he told them to their faces. And they still voted for him, proving him right.

            • (Score: 4, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday January 13 2019, @07:24AM

              by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Sunday January 13 2019, @07:24AM (#785826) Homepage Journal

              Trust me, I can do a lot. All by myself. Which, by the way, I'm by myself right now. Almost by myself -- the guy with the nuclear is in the hall. Waiting in the hall. And I'm wearing my pajamas.

              I can't declare War. That's so true. But, it really doesn't matter. At all. Because I can start a War, very easily. And I'm not the type of guy that would start one. Not unless I have to. But, I could very very easily start one. And if somebody else starts one, I can send my great, and very brave soldiers to protect our Country. They're fighters. Like Crooked H. But unlike her, they're very good at it. I've seen the map of, they're fighting ISIS. Very successfully. Two years ago -- it's not even 2 years, can you believe it -- there was Red everywhere in the Middle East. All over the map. And now, just a few little spots. Like somebody was reading the map, he had a bloody nose. And if Canada or the European Union wants a fight, we're ready. Any time. Any place.

              I love signing Laws, I've signed more in 2 years (not even) than other Presidents signed in their entire term. And more, in some instances, than they signed in 2, 3 or even 4 terms. And I've done so many Executive Orders. Muslim Ban, that was an Executive Order. Actually, more than one. Tariffs, I'm doing the Tariffs with Executive Orders. Very fast, I tell my people what I want the Tariffs on. The girl types it up, she hands me the Hard Copy. I put one of my beautiful signatures on it, and it's happening. Don't have to talk to Paul (remember him?). Don't have to talk to Mitch. Don't have to talk to Chuck & Nancy. I sign and it happens.

              Treaties, we have some beauties. Very one-sided Treaties that were written to benefit other countries. My very corrupt predecessors. Or some of our other very crooked politicians. No more. I've canceled many horrible Treaties. TPP. The Iran Deal. INF, the nuclear with Russia. You should have heard Flaky Crybaby Mikhail Gorbachev when I canceled that one! The Paris Carbon Treaty. I call it a Treaty, it's not a Treaty. That one's an Obama number, Congress never looked at that one. And I'm going to cancel many more. And I can negotiate with anybody. All agree I have COMPLETE power to negotiate. I can't do the Ratify. Congress does the Ratify. But, they don't do it too much anymore. It's like declaring War. We've had so many Wars. And Obama, I think at one point he had 7 Wars going on. Possibly 9. With the drones and the everything else. And out of those, Congress declared ZERO. Same thing with Treaties. A lot of those, they make a deal. They don't do the Ratify. But the deal happens. And I'm making the BEST deals for America. Because I'm a fantastic negotiator. I'm not doing for myself. I'm doing it for America. For the American people. America First!!!

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:53AM (9 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @01:53AM (#785738) Journal

            Don't give me lessons about history,

            It seems that you need some lessons.

            I'm not in love with all of the evils that the US has ever committed. I am embarrassed at some of the stuff we've done. But, despite all of our worst evils, pretty much everyone in the world wants to come to America. Maybe we're not quite so evil as you paint us to be?

            You appear to hate the US. Many of my fellow Americans are completely ignorant of any wrongdoing that the US has ever committed. How about you just admit that despite all of our wrongs, we've got some things right? Americans are neither demonic, nor saintly. We do right, and we do wrong - pretty much like any other country or government in the world.

            • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:17AM (8 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:17AM (#785752)

              Judging by your signature, you seem perfectly entitled to paint with the same brush an entire segment of the population of your country. And yet you critisize me for doing something similar.

              Many of my fellow Americans are completely ignorant of any wrongdoing that the US has ever committed.

              This is actually what I hate the most about americans: Not so much the horrors that their governements and corporations have commited throughout history, but the fact that most americans seem completely ignorant of it all, just like you said. This infuriates me to no end.

              I would expect such levels of ignorance from some god-forsaken shithole country, not from a country like the U.S. Education accessible to everyone is one of the fundamental pillars of civilization, and an absolute necessity for a free and healthy democracy.

              But when a con-man like Trump (and not a very good one at that) is able to con his way to the oval office, and with relative ease, something is horribly, horribly wrong with the level of education of the average voter.

              • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:43AM (7 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:43AM (#785764) Journal

                Yes, I am entitled. I am American. I need apologize to no one for being an asshole. Not only was my entitlement passed on to me by virtue of being born an American, but I served my country, thus earning my entitlements. Thanks for noticing all of that.

                I have expressed my utter contempt for American style "left" repeatedly here. Anyone who is the least bit familiar with my views knows that I am contemptuous of both of our political parties, but that I despise the "left" far more than I despise the "right".

                As for Trump - if the left had nominated a real human being, then the left probably would have beaten Trump. Unfortunately, all that they offered was Clinton.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @10:25AM (4 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @10:25AM (#785853)

                  Yes, I am entitled. I am American. I need apologize to no one for being an asshole.

                  A particularly ignorant and stupid asshole, entitle by the fact that he is >>, meaning Polack, not really an American at all, but spawn of anchor babies dropped by Babuskas in order to dilute the pure white (WASP) American blood! Bloody Catholic Slavs! With their stupid ideas and voting for anyone with a D in front of their name in Chicago. No need to apologize, Runaway the American Asshole, you just need to shut up, because you are not entitled to an audience. Especially since you are terribly ignorant, and old, and rural, and stupid, and thus have nothing to contribute to the conversation. So, squeal like a pig, Runaway! You sure have purty lips!

                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @10:38AM (3 children)

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @10:38AM (#785856) Journal

                    Why do you attempt to be anonymous? It doesn't work. Seriously, make an effort here. Try to understand how and why your posts are so very distinctive, and then swap things up a little now and then. Unless, of course, senility is setting in, and you are incapable of a little analysis.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @06:52PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @06:52PM (#785967)

                      Why is who trying to be anonymous, Runaway! Have you been reduced to trolling yourself, just so you will have someone to talk to? Seems legit!

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @08:44PM (1 child)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @08:44PM (#785999)

                      There are at least two socialist-tending ACs in this discussion. You seem frustrated, perhaps because your attempts to fit the history of the last few centuries into a simplistic mytho-macho narrative is insufficient.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 14 2019, @08:30AM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 14 2019, @08:30AM (#786360)

                        Runaway, part of the "We made America Suck, Again" Generation. You have my condolences, Runaway. Better luck in your next life, when your karma catches up with you.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @03:26PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @03:26PM (#785918)

                  You should never have to apologize for being an american. However, everyone should have to apologize for being an asshole. In fact, everyone should try his damnest not to be an asshole in the first place.

                  My God, has it come to this ? Was all the progress that civilization brought be trown out and forgetten ? Should parents stop trying to raise their children and let them become foul-mouthed, ill-bred, ignorant assholes ?

                  Should we give up on democracy, education, science, art, justice, peaceful coexistence, and revert back to tyranny, ignorance, superstition, barbarism, savagery, slavery, war and bloodshed ? Cause from what I hear and read here and from many other sources, it's starting to look more and more as if that's what a non-negligeable segment of the human population wants.

                  Those who bitch about school have never known a world ruled by ignorance and superstition. Those who bitch about vaccines have never witnessed the damages caused by smallpox and polio. Those who bitch about justice have never been woken up in the middle of the night by thugs weilding badges and seen one of their loved ones being taken away kicking and screaming, without reason or explanation, never to be seen again. Those who bitch about democracy have never lived the horrors of tyranny, bloodshed, and war.

                  I fear we live in a time when humanity will be willingly and joyfully running towards the chasm that civilization has spent countless centuries pulling it out of. And I fear I will see that happen within my lifetime.

                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @04:29PM

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @04:29PM (#785925) Journal

                    Awwww, you're not triggered, are you?

                    Tell us, how do you conflate my words for all of these calamities that you are making up?

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:45AM

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:45AM (#785765) Journal

            Don't give me lessons about history, when it's very obvious that you learned history only from a very biased american point of view, and that you pick and chose very specific events and exceptions that counter my argument or prove yours.

            You need lessons about history. You're throwing out generalizations and stereotypes like a brainwashed freshman at Antioch College. Go do some subaltern studies or get a degree (at least a minor) in history from a region other than your own; learn a couple of that region's languages and read source materials in the original. Then you can lecture other people about their grasp of real history.

            All civilizations had their savage periods. But even today, americans continue to promote in their movies, tv, music, etc, violence as an acceptable solution to resolve conflict, which is the perfect definition of barbarism.

            Gosh, I'd have to say the things you cite are incredibly mild by historical standards. I'll just toss out a few better claimants to "the perfect definition of barbarism" to drive some stakes in the ground: 1) The Golden Horde's invasion of every place they invaded (pyramids of human skulls and all kinds of animal skulls and executing Persian officials by pouring molten silver in their eyes) 2) Vlad the Impaler's impaling 10,000 of his own men, women, and children to scare off the invading Turks (it worked, BTW, which is pretty impressive since the Turks were no softies) 3) The Cultural Revolution in which the Chinese annihilated their own cultural heritage 4) The Spanish Inquisition torturing and murdering tens of thousands of people 5) The Nazi holocaust (of course) 6) Aztec human sacrifice 7) The Japanese rape of Nanking 8) The massacre at Amritsar by British soldiers. If you think that movies with exciting themes are more barbaric than any of those, then I submit that you have zero sense of perspective or scale.

            But while we're on the subject of popular entertainment, have you never seen Bollywood movies at all? Chinese kung fu movies? Thai? Japanese? Have you never watched the fucked up violent plots of Korean films (eg. "Oldboy," "The Man from Nowhere," etc)? Honestly, anybody that makes such a claim as you have can only rate as desperately ignorant.

            Americans stick out like a sore thumb in every single country they travel to, more so than any other tourist, precisely for the reasons I mentionned. And I also travelled extensively in to U.S, mostly east of the mississipi, and it's unbelievable the number of fat, obese, and unhealthy looking people you see in the streets of the average american town.

            And Russians stick out like sore thumbs in every single country they travel to, because the women all dress cheaply and provocatively. And Brazilians stick out like sore thumbs because they are a loud, boisterous, rolling ball of zero self-restraint. And Japanese stick out like sore thumbs because they move in packs, led by people with little flags. And Europeans stick out like sore thumbs on the streets of my town, NYC, because all of them, no matter where they are from, marvel at the big city.

            As for the relative weight and health of Americans, I call bullshit on that right there. Britons are heavy people, as are Canadians. Germans, too. Alcoholism is rampant across Scandinavia, and Russians die, last I checked, about a decade earlier than everyone else. If you want to see really large, obese people, go to the South Pacific. Damn, those people are big. But hey, despite all your travels it seems you only saw what you wanted to see.

            If all americans were like New-Yorkers, you wouldn't have a fucking disgusting wortless miserable sack of pus for president.

            Trump is a New Yorker, you ninny. And as to whether or not you think he's a "fucking disgusting worthless miserable sack of pus," well, who cares what you think? I don't care how mean he is, frankly, while I do care what he's doing for America's middle class. So far, things are looking up after 40 years of disastrous neo-liberal policies. I must confess I do feel a degree of schadenfreude at your anguish over him.

            The people with the most simplistic view of the world is the average trumptard. And clearly, they're the majority.

            Nah, really, I think you're a stronger contender for that title. Self-important, cocksure, ignorant, bombastic, dismissive, jejune, etc.

            But your worst quality is that you are a bigot. You take it as self-evident that Americans have no value and that American culture has no value, with the same certitude that a Klansman belittles blacks or Nazis do Jews.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:35PM (1 child)

        by Gaaark (41) on Saturday January 12 2019, @04:35PM (#785567) Journal

        "I could go on and on"

        and i'd be here 'listening'!
        Please... go on.... I love insightful viewpoints.

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday January 14 2019, @08:32AM

          by aristarchus (2645) on Monday January 14 2019, @08:32AM (#786361) Journal

          Shit! Gaark! No! Do not encourage him! Even in jest! He will not be able to tell the difference, and we will all suffer.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:36AM (1 child)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:36AM (#785761) Journal

      The human cattle problem will follow us into space. The story has been written again, and again, and again. Perhaps you should read The Expanse again, or watch the movies. The masters will be those who own and/or control spacecraft, and the cattle will be the laborers in the colonies, bases, and work sites.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @06:29PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @06:29PM (#785961)

        yep. there are more slaves now that during the pre civil war days. it's just that now the slavery takes different forms and isn't solely race-based.

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @12:46PM (16 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @12:46PM (#785480)

    No joy for wswswsws [wsws.org]:

    The American payment-processing corporation PayPal has blocked sales of the World Socialist Web Site pamphlet, The Struggle Against Imperialism and for Workers' Power in Iran [mehring.com].

    The effective banning of the sale of a book represents a dangerous new stage in the ongoing campaign to criminalize political expression and censor freedom of speech on the Internet.

    Mehring Books customers who attempt to purchase the pamphlet using PayPal currently receive the following message: "PayPal gateway has rejected request. This transaction cannot be completed because it violates the PayPal User Agreement (#13122: Transaction refused)."

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @12:59PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @12:59PM (#785484)

      Only an alt-right site would promote a racist book like that.

      • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Saturday January 12 2019, @03:30PM (1 child)

        by Sulla (5173) on Saturday January 12 2019, @03:30PM (#785537) Journal

        Maybe the payment processors just dont want them or their kids eaten in the next great communist inspired famine.

        --
        Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:27PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:27PM (#785615)

          On the contrary, the payment processors do not want their exorbitant wealth and disproportionate, anti-democratic, oligarchical control of society questioned.

          They have much in common with the Stalinist bureaucracy.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday January 12 2019, @02:45PM (10 children)

      by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Saturday January 12 2019, @02:45PM (#785516) Homepage Journal

      At least 800,000 Muslim Uyghurs are tormented - and often tortured or even killed - in China's concentration camps, possibly as many as three million.

      The World Socialist Web went on a visit then cheerfully reported that the Uyghurs are "learning Chinese laws".

      I used to actually read the World Socialist Web but for them to be such an enthusiastic promoter of epic-scale genocide really turned put me off.

      --
      Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:03PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:03PM (#785634)

        This is just how it goes, whether your socialism is nationalist (Nazi) or globalist. People won't be good little socialists, sharing everything and accepting poverty, without a bit of slaughter.

        I have to admit, socialism's violence might be the only viable opposition to Islam's violence. So there's that. I'm still not a fan.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:42PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:42PM (#785644)

          A twisted interpretation of history. As has been said a million times, if the NSDAP is a socialist party, then the DPRK is run by a democratic party and the PRC is run by a republican party. Hitler, Kim, and Mao do not represent socialist, democratic, or republican tendencies. You also smear the billions of Muslims in the world who are not violent. You ignore the role of Western imperialism in the creation of poverty, the overthrow of legitimate democratic governments, and the promotion of violence in the Middle East and Africa.

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @12:04AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @12:04AM (#785714)

            Compare Nazi/fascist stuff with conservative/republican/right and with liberal/democrat/left to see what it looks like.

            Hitler preached class warfare, agitating the working class to resist “exploitation” by capitalists , particularly Jewish capitalists, of course. Nazi programs called for the nationalization of education, health care, transportation, and other major industries. They instituted and vigorously enforced a strict gun control regimen. (how else could they round up the undesirables?) They encouraged pornography, illegitimacy, and abortion, and they denounced Christians as right-wing fanatics. Nazis loved identity politics.

            It is what it is. If you are socialist, own it.

            Modern socialists in the USA would only disagree with a few things. They prefer globalism, and they would select different groups as the chosen people.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @05:42PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @05:42PM (#785940)

              You clearly need to study 1920s and 1930s Germany in more detail, so that you may understand the failures of the SPD and KPD and how the NSDAP used that to its political advantage.

              Socialism and fascism are very different. There are no chosen people in socialism. I will not own something simply because some uneducated idiot in the internet tells me I must.

              They instituted and vigorously enforced a strict gun control regimen.

              This one in particular bugs me. Please read this section (The Picket Line, Defense Guards/Workers’ Militia and The Arming of the Proletariat) [marxists.org] of Trotsky's The Transitional Program. It is only the pseudo-left, in their political collaboration with capitalism, that suggests disarming the populace. That right there should tell you gobs about the difference between Trotskyist socialism in its drive to arm the populace and Nazi fascism in its drive to disarm the populace.

              I was, and remain, a Second Amendment person, even as the "Second Amendment people" make the Founders of the USA spin in their graves.

              However, next I'm sure that, in your quest to equivocate socialism and fascism, you will tell me that Trotsky's worker's militia is no different whatsoever from the Montana and Michigan militias. Your view of the world is hopelessly superficial.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:33PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @07:33PM (#785641)

        I used to actually read the World Socialist Web but for them to be such an enthusiastic promoter of epic-scale genocide really turned put me off.

        I think we must be reading different World Socialist Web Sites. I'm reading the one at wsws.org that as much to say about the failures of Maoism and Stalinism.

        From 2001. China’s stake in the US "war on terrorism" [wsws.org]:

        Whatever the involvement of the Afghani-based Al Qaeda in training Uyghur fighters, the source of the unrest in Xinjiang is resentment over social inequality and decades of religious and cultural repression by Beijing. Spurred on by the victory of the Afghani mujaheddin against the Soviet Union, Islamic separatism gathered support in Xinjiang in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

        Large-scale unrest against Chinese rule was brutally suppressed. In the mid-1990s, it is estimated that China deployed up to 300,000 troops into the province, backed by paramilitary units among Xinjiang’s eight million ethnic Chinese. In May 1997, according to Amnesty International, hundreds were executed and thousands imprisoned after major demonstrations in the city of Yining. In the last four years, there have been scattered reports of ongoing guerilla operations, bombings and assassinations by Uyghur extremists.

        Beijing has welcomed the collapse of the Taliban regime, which has both deprived Uyghur separatists of a safe haven and opened up the possibility of China securing a stake in Afghanistan. Beijing is calling for a role in the UN transitional administration in Kabul, to provide political, technical and financial assistance to rebuild the country.

        More recently, US push for sanctions of China over treatment of Uyghur minority [wsws.org]:

        China, in its submission to the UN committee, said “there are no such things as re-education centres or counter-extremism training centres in Xinjiang,” adding that claims of a million Uyghurs being held in such facilities were “completely untrue.” Such declarations are certainly false. Beijing has cracked down ruthlessly on any protests or expressions of separatist sentiment in Xinjiang and heavily censors news reports.

        As the westernmost province of China, Xinjiang is a focus for many of the land routes and pipelines planned to Central Asia and on to Europe. The congressional letter to the Trump administration seeks to encourage Washington to exploit Uyghur separatism to disrupt the Belt and Road Initiative and potentially fracture China itself.

        The CIA and other agencies of US imperialism have long-standing ties with various Uyghur and Tibetan separatist organisations around the globe. Funds have been funnelled through the US-financed National Endowment for Democracy to the Uyghur American Association and the World Uyghur Congress based in Munich, which has close connections to the US propaganda arm, Radio Free Asia. These US activities are used by Beijing as another justification for their own repressive measures.

        Neither Beijing nor Washington has the moral upper hand. Both only offer exploitation, repression, and suffering to the Uyghurs. In fact, Washington I believe has a systemic track record of offering such things in Faustian bargains to Muslims.

      • (Score: 2, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:46AM (4 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @02:46AM (#785766) Journal

        It must be noted that Islam is incompatible with any form of government which is not Islamic.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @05:47PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @05:47PM (#785941)

          You mean political Islam. The same could be said of political Christianity. Look at Israel for an example of another Yahweh religion as a political power. This is why the Founders of the USA ultimately decided on the necessity of the First Amendment and Jefferson's separation of church and state.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @05:59PM (2 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @05:59PM (#785946) Journal

            I take it, then, that you live in Rome. That is about the only Christian government that I'm aware of. Salt Lake City? Tell us more about your home.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @06:17PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 13 2019, @06:17PM (#785955)

              *snort* lol!

              Do you even history bro?

              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday January 13 2019, @07:02PM

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 13 2019, @07:02PM (#785971) Journal

                No, it would be politically incorrect to tell or even to listen to his story. It's her story now.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @05:45PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @05:45PM (#785596)

      I'd love to believe that the ctrl-left is also getting burned by censorship, but probably the issue is two words in the title. PayPal is prohibited from doing business in Iran. The title literally says "in Iran".

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:31PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 12 2019, @06:31PM (#785616)

        Not the ctrl-left. The authentic left is being burned by censorship. The ctrl-left appears to have full support of the state apparatus to operate with impunity in academia. See Soylent's coverage of the Grievance Studies affair.

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