Civil rights group marks MLK Day with call for 'Trump card' national ID
A prominent civil rights group is marking Martin Luther King Jr. Day by pressing President Trump to honor his promise to create a national photo ID card for citizens.
Martin Luther King III, the oldest son of the iconic civil rights leader and a co-chairmen of the Drum Major Institute, met with Trump two years ago on MLK Day. During that meeting, the then president-elect endorsed the idea of a national photo ID. This year, the group is calling on Trump to follow through.
William Wachtel, co-founder of the Drum Major Institute, said the group sees the issue as critical to ensuring King's work to remove barriers to voting.
[...] The idea has invited controversy in the past, in particular over privacy concerns. In 2013, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) introduced a measure, the Protect Our Privacy Act, attached to a Senate immigration bill. The Paul amendment sought to prevent the creation of a national ID card, citing worries that it would make it easier for the government to track people. Wachtel sought to ease concerns about such an ID, saying it would not be mandatory and would only be an option for those who sought it.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @06:08PM (4 children)
“saying it would not be mandatory”. At least, not at first.
Wait until people get used to the idea, then the rules will change ever so slightly.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @11:21PM
That which is not forbidden is mandatory
(Score: 3, Insightful) by pipedwho on Tuesday January 22 2019, @03:58AM (2 children)
Even if it's not made mandatory by legislation, it may become de-facto so for anyone that wants to do anything of worth. For example if you're over 16/18/21/whatever and need to buy whatever product or visit whatever venues that have minimum age requirements, then the store/venue you may require your 'national ID' card be presented as proof of age. It may also become an easy requirement for anything else that currently requires some form of ID, like banking, credit applications, driver/gun/dog/fish licensing, student enrolment, etc. And as it becomes sufficiently ubiquitous, other players may start jumping in on the bandwagon like hospitals, hotels, public transport systems, retail chains, etc.
This could easily happen if driver's licensing and passports (the current methods of photo ID) start linking to this National ID. Which means if you have state or federally issued ID, then you by default end up being issued a 'National ID', or at best being required to have one in order to apply for other forms of ID.
By the time all the 'essential' private sector services start taking the easy road requiring this ID, then you're stuck with having one yourself or living like a hermit in a forest cabin and hunting for food.
And the federal government never needs to even legislate a single line to make it 'mandatory'.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @06:07AM (1 child)
Technically not even the Social Security Number is required. You don't have to sign up your kids for it. I remember hearing a RadioLab podcast about a girl whose parents never signed her up for one, and all the problems she had as an adult.
Heck, the Social Security Administration specifically doesn't guarantee that a person's SSN is unique. Sometimes the SSA erroneously assigns the same number to different people. I used to design databases, and had to explain this to people over and over again as to why you never make SSN a unique key. Yes, we (state government agency) caught multiple SSN usage; usually it was a typo, but legally all we could do is report the "problem" to the reporting parties. I always wondered how many people found out that way that someone else had stolen their identities.
(Score: 2) by RandomFactor on Sunday February 10 2019, @07:00PM
My original social security card had "Not to be used for identification" on the back. That worked out well.
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @06:10PM (3 children)
Trump should focus on repealing all the unnecessary and poorly written laws and regulations, not adding more crap.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @09:01PM (2 children)
When is he going to start doing that instead of pushing for the unnecessary walls?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @09:07PM (1 child)
I don't know. This whole wall thing looks like some sort of theatre. Why did he wait for democrats to have the majority in the house of representatives to do this? And since when do democrats care if the government pisses away $5 billion on some pork spending?
The whole thing looks like a distraction from both sides.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Monday January 21 2019, @11:01PM
Since... never.
So with that out of the way, it seems pretty clear that there is another motivation, or more than one.
But 5 billion? I agree. That's hardly noticeable WRT the financial levels congress normally operates on. It means a lot to the poor peons in the peanut gallery (that's us, BTW), and so it's worthy of grandstanding, but in terms of actual budget... nope.
--
Keep electing the rich.
Keep wondering why tax laws screw everyone else.
It's a mystery!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by digitalaudiorock on Monday January 21 2019, @06:45PM (63 children)
Wow...rather than this Orwellian approach, how about we just overturn existing "voter id" laws and all the other voter suppression efforts put through under the guise of preventing voter fraud that's never actually happened? How's that for a plan?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Monday January 21 2019, @06:57PM (14 children)
Well it's slightly less concerning given this quote from the article:
“A lot of people are against a national photo ID,” said Wachtel. “[Our proposal] is nothing more than affording every citizen, who already has a Social Security card, the option of having the photo put on the card so they can vote and get on airplanes and the like.”
I'm struggling to figure out what problem this is a solution to, though.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @07:12PM (3 children)
It is just another thing for the government to spend 10x more than necessary on.
I remember when I got my last drivers license update, the middle eastern guy in front of me was repeating "Jan x, 197x" over and over like he was trying to memorize his birthday. Then the cameraman burst out laughing saying "I can't believe it, another one!". The entire thing is security theater.
(Score: 3, Informative) by khallow on Monday January 21 2019, @07:36PM
Good chance he was doing exactly that. Different calendar and all that.
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Monday January 21 2019, @08:38PM (1 child)
A drivers license isn't meant to be a security document. It's primary and original purpose is to show that you passed some instructional classes and a written test showing you know how to operate a standard vehicle and know what most traffic signs mean.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @08:57PM
Its primary purpose is to prove you are old enough to buy booze and cigarettes.
(Score: 1) by hopdevil on Monday January 21 2019, @07:26PM (1 child)
"Now you can vote and get on airplanes and the like" -- You can't do that otherwise.
This is what someone would say a few years after they create these IDs. If you want to participate in this democracy you must register yourself and accept the terms and conditions. Having your ability to vote tied to the same ID used to board a plane or do "the like" is a great way to wrap it all up with a bow on top.
Double plus good: .gov gets a photo for their face recognition software. More problems solved.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @09:47PM
They already collect digital photos from DMV. Everyone who is not a child or a senior is in the database. Transition to digital ID will be primarily used to separate DL holders (anyone, with luck and money, primarily visitors from the south border) from citizens and legal residents.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by digitalaudiorock on Monday January 21 2019, @07:34PM (3 children)
If it exists, more and more things WILL require it, you can bet on that. I don't have or need one now and I don't want to.
Exactly, and that's my main gripe. It's a cure for which there is no known disease and does nothing more than give credibility to the voter fraud myth that the Republicans fabricated and Trump weaponized. Fuck that.
(Score: 2, Informative) by EEMac on Tuesday January 22 2019, @03:24PM (2 children)
San Diego county: 138% more registered voters than eligible citizens in 2016.
https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-warns-california-clean-voter-registration-lists-face-federal-lawsuit/ [judicialwatch.org]
(Score: 1) by EEMac on Tuesday January 22 2019, @03:26PM
Ghaaa, bad typing. 38% more registered voters than voting-age citizens.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @06:22PM
Mostly because anyone who tries to clean up their registered voter lists will get sued into oblivion by "progressives" who claim to be protecting people from being disenfranchised.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Monday January 21 2019, @08:40PM (2 children)
You have to show ID to buy a pack of smokes which are basically only self-harmful, but it's such a burden to produce an ID to vote?
I'm a lefty and I'm just not bothered by it.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @09:01PM (1 child)
Wasn't there a youtube video where they interviews a bunch of racists at berkely who said blacks were too dumb/lazy/poor/whatever to get IDs , and then went to harlem (in NYC) where everyone had an ID and even knew exactly where the nearest DMV was?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @12:04AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @11:45AM
The FBI doesn't have enough photos in its facial recognition database. They need absolutely everyone's photos.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 21 2019, @07:15PM (47 children)
Look, I'm against a national ID as much as the next anti-big-government guy. Saying having to present an ID to vote is suppressing minority voting is some epically racist bullshit to be saying on Dr. King's birthday though. Do you genuinely believe black folks are too stupid or poor to fill out a form and pay $15?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by DutchUncle on Monday January 21 2019, @07:23PM (2 children)
I believe that folks in hourly wage jobs have more trouble getting to the state DMV two counties over during banker's hours, especially if they don't drive and the DMV is on some highway with no sidewalks. On the other hand, my father, a lawyer born and raised in New York City, NEVER DROVE and NEVER HAD A DRIVER'S LICENSE, and would have had a problem showing ID to vote. (He had to get a special ID from the NY State Sheriff's Dept. when security was increased at NY federal courthouses.)
(Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 21 2019, @09:22PM
Two counties over? Where are you located, that some counties don't have a DMV office? All of the offices that I know of are located in downtown areas, accessible to wheelchairs, or whoever might come along. The hardest thing about getting to a DMV is learning where it is located. More conspicuous signage would help, for those of us who don't carry a surveillance device on our persons all the time.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 22 2019, @09:47PM
And yet hourly white folks seem to manage it just fine. What innate disability are you claiming black folks have that prevents them doing the same?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by digitalaudiorock on Monday January 21 2019, @07:29PM (25 children)
Holy shit. Do you genuinely believe that requiring $15 to vote is OK?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by shortscreen on Monday January 21 2019, @08:23PM
I don't know, even MDC can get his hands on $15.
I should also note that the Obamacare individual mandate (R.I.P.) was asking a lot more than $15, for a lot less than being able to vote.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Monday January 21 2019, @08:43PM (20 children)
The solution is to make the ID card (as distinct from a driver's license) free. I'm not going to do an exhaustive search of states with free ID cards, but here's how to get one in Wisconsin: https://www.bringitwisconsin.com/how-do-i-get-free-state-id-card [bringitwisconsin.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @09:03PM (5 children)
You could make the ID card a tax writeoff... It might be already anyway. It should be at least.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday January 21 2019, @10:43PM (4 children)
Tax write-off is not free of charge. if one is under the threshold to pay taxes, the one pays for it in full.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @11:06PM
And being over the (elevated) personal exemption. That was a real "let them eat cake" comment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @11:26PM (2 children)
Then add it to the refund check.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday January 22 2019, @01:29AM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @07:56PM
Somehow the federal government needs to be reimbursing the states if they are the ones who care.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by digitalaudiorock on Monday January 21 2019, @09:25PM (13 children)
First of all, a photo ID requires traveling somewhere and confirming you're ID which is very much not free, if even possible for some especially depending on where you live, or if you're elderly or extremely poor, etc etc.
Second of all...and I keep pointing this out I don't see anyone where trying to dispute it...you're suggesting a "solution" to a problem that never existing in the first place. This is NOT a drivers license where driving is a privilege. We're talking about voting which very much is a right. Yet so many here want to hinder it to solve a fabricated myth of a problem. I mean FFS anyway.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @09:36PM (6 children)
I know multiple people who don't drive. They all have state ids? Why?
(Score: 2) by digitalaudiorock on Monday January 21 2019, @10:46PM (5 children)
Yet more myths. Perhaps you're just from a screwed up state then. Mine has no such thing as a "state id", that is unless you have a drivers license. They sure as shit don't require either to fucking vote I can tell you.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @11:29PM (4 children)
Myth? They are available in every single state: https://www.dmv.org/id-cards.php. [dmv.org]
Sorry, but if you don't know anyone with a state id instead of a license you are either very privileged and in a bubble or not actually from the US.
(Score: 2) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday January 22 2019, @02:55AM (3 children)
I stand corrected on that. As it turns out, here (NJ) apparently you can get a NJ state id if you want one, but no, I've never met anyone who has one that I'm aware of...probably because there's very little need for one...you sure don't need one to fucking vote that's for sure. Anyone who thinks one should be required to vote in order to solve a problem that doesn't exist is seriously misguided or has ulterior motives.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @05:14AM (2 children)
It explains why on the site:
https://www.dmv.org/id-cards.php [dmv.org]
Not everyone drives, especially if they live in the city.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @11:54AM (1 child)
Yay for totally artificial, draconian restrictions created by government thugs. You should be able to pay cash and fly anonymously, but I guess most people in the 'land of the free and the home of the brave' and 'give me liberty or give me death' country would rather be groped and humiliated at airports in the name of security. Treacherous cowards, all of them.
(Score: 2) by Muad'Dave on Tuesday January 22 2019, @07:05PM
> groped and humiliated at airports in the name of security
Being groped and remaining anonymous are orthogonal. You can be known and groped, unknown and groped, known and ungroped, and unknown and ungroped.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Tuesday January 22 2019, @12:00AM (5 children)
Todler walks into a voiting booth and and digitalaudiorock says "leave the kid alone, don't ID". *eyeroll*
Simply being here is not enough to prove eligibility to vote. One must be a citizen, over a certain age, and in most states, not a convicted felon. So checking ID is integral to voting integrity.
(Score: 2) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday January 22 2019, @03:03AM (3 children)
You do realize that you have to register to vote right?
Since when? Most "voter id" laws have been pushed through by Republicans fairly recently. All I need to do is to sign my name in a ledger near my previous signatures going back decades.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @04:26AM
And I go into every polling station in the local area and vote as many times as I can get away with until they recognize me and say "hey you've already voted today".
I register under at least a dozen different names. It's great. No ID required, no way to verify fraud.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by hemocyanin on Tuesday January 22 2019, @05:28PM (1 child)
And?
Or are you claiming that Republican==racist?
(Score: 2) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday January 22 2019, @05:54PM
Nice spin. I'm saying that they know the demographics that do and don't vote for them, and they also know that this voter fraud is a myth.
For a guy who seems to claim to be a "lefty" and "not concervative" etc you sure do a good job of spouting right wing shit. I'm done here.
(Score: 2) by DutchUncle on Wednesday January 23 2019, @08:47PM
When you REGISTER to vote (it's not like you can just walk in at the last minute), you provide various proofs of ID for the citizen and age etc., and you SIGN the registration book. Then, each time you vote, you SIGN next to your old signature. That is your ID. Where I vote, they print out a new copy of the current registration list with signatures, so that each person can sign near their old signature. The person at the desk checks the signature. SIGNATURE has been the accepted form of ID on checks and contracts and wills and all sorts of things for hundreds of years (like those signatures on the bottom of the Declaration of Independence). And REGISTERING is how the government already put integrity checking into the system. It is abundantly clear that creating new requirements for new forms of ID are simply trying to put yet another stumbling block in people's way. Even mine - why is my Global Entry Trusted Traveler card, which means that the US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT trusts me to come back into the country, NOT ACCEPTED as ID in my state? Because this is all about different groups of would-be dictators getting their tentacles into controlling the masses.
(Score: 1) by EEMac on Tuesday January 22 2019, @03:29PM
An adult who can't scrape together $15 is going to vote for a lot of fiscally bad policies. After all, the government isn't spending THEIR money.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 22 2019, @09:49PM (1 child)
No, I believe any ID required to vote should be otherwise untrackable and free to its holder. I also believe saying that black folks are incapable of coughing up $15 and standing in line is racist as ten kinds of fuck.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday January 22 2019, @11:03PM
Your word...not mine. When the FUCK did I ever say that? Stop putting words in my mouth.
I love how all of you avoid the fact that this "voter fraud" doesn't exist in the first place. I guess that's be too tough to spin...(queue the fake statistics).
(Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Monday January 21 2019, @09:19PM (6 children)
The same reasons they would have problems showing up for jury duty, are the same reasons they have problems commuting two counties over, waiting in line for an hour, showing supporting documents, paying for transportation, and finding the time off work. Employers are fucking demons and don't give two shits about anything. For wage slaves, it most certainly is a hardship to deal with government, and even medical when your poor. Since you can be hired by McDonalds/Walmart and still be a "ward of the state", you must factor the logistics surrounding getting the ID.
It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with class.
If there was a 3-day Federal holiday (paid), with public transportation being free and augmented on those days, then I would be less likely to be concerned for the wage slaves. I think all of the voting that we need to do should occur within those three days, and every voting place should have mobile federal offices that can hand out IDs on the spot. You have to make it that easy, because the only thing left in America is service jobs, and many have to work more than one job just to survive. It's not like the lower classes own their own homes, have ample savings, and are not under constant duress.
When shit is that bad, getting IDs and dealing with government bureaucracy is truly a luxury many cannot afford.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 21 2019, @09:25PM (2 children)
So, the guy who juggles three jobs, can't find time to get to the DMV? Or to vote? I don't think you give him enough credit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @12:04AM (1 child)
It's shocking. They can find time to get to the polling place twice a year, but can't figure out how to get to the DMV once every four years. According to their masters, they're totally helpless when it suits them.
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Tuesday January 22 2019, @05:33PM
Polling places have more locations and are usually open longer hours than the DMV.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 22 2019, @09:51PM (2 children)
What aspect of that is unique to black people? Or are you saying they have a disability that keeps them from doing what white folks in their situation manage just fine?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by edIII on Tuesday January 22 2019, @10:45PM (1 child)
I DON'T think it's unique to black people, but pervasive among the rural poor.
That, and I don't recall being able to register to vote at the DMV. You have to get your ID first, then go to an entirely different building to register to vote. I believe some states automatically register you to vote when you get a driver's license, but that should be every state then.
You underestimate the amount of work required, and it is indeed a burden on the poor. Especially the rural poor that have to find significant time off and need to cover transportation costs. It's not like there is a mini-DMV for every single small town in rural America.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 24 2019, @12:35AM
Insightful? I don't think so.
In my state of Ohio which the idiot media seems to think is a voter suppression pit of Hell, you can register ONLINE or any of the following:
Board of Elections offices.
Ohio BMV deputy registrar office.
Ohio public library.
Any public high school or vocational school.
County treasurer office and other state offices
FFS, if you can't figure out how to register, you'll never figure out how to operate a voting machine. You lefty partisans seem to think everyone but you is incapable of even the most simple of tasks.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @11:55PM
That is precisely what the leftists believe. They also believe that they are entitled to an automatic "D" vote for every "stupid or poor" black person that they can encourage to vote. The funny thing is that some of the poorest people in the US are in the rural Appalachia areas and these hypocrites, always whining about how voter ID laws unfairly target the "urban" poor, never seem to remember that.
Somehow, we are supposed to turn a blind eye to the obvious glaring hole in their failed logic that IDs are required to start a job, open a bank account, purchase alcohol, purchase tobacco, cash a check, get on a plane, rent most apartments and myriad other things we do everyday. Anytime I hear anyone crying about how voter ID laws "suppress" voters, I immediately ignore them as the ignorant, partisan twits they obviously are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @01:22AM (3 children)
Buddy of mine (in his mid-50s), born in Louisiana, doesn't have a birth certificate. I think born poor is more relevant, but yes, he is black. How does he get that ID again?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @01:41AM
By claiming he is an asylum seeker from Honduras?
(Score: 2) by Oakenshield on Tuesday January 22 2019, @02:36PM
My father didn't have one until he was ready to file for Social Security. You can go back and get one after the fact. It requires a lot of legwork and sworn statements, but it can be done. If my father could do it, then your buddy can do it.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 22 2019, @09:52PM
That's a legit pain in the ass but it has nothing to do with his race.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by captain normal on Tuesday January 22 2019, @07:00AM
Wonder what happened to the "real ID" driver's licence I paid extra for last year when I had to renew on my birthday? Supposed to get me on airplanes and other necessary stuff.
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @04:47PM (2 children)
I genuinely believe there should never be a requirement which ends up costing a voter one cent to be able to vote. (Gas prices and bus fares are not requirements, especially with easy early balloting).
I believe that there should not be a literacy requirement to vote, and requiring forms to be filled out challenges that.
I genuinely believe that the way I currently vote, required signature compared to my signature on my voter registration card, is sufficient to identify that I am who I am. I believe that myself, and any other voter, can be found and verified.
I believe that electoral fraud in any significant numbers has not been proven sufficiently and that this is therefore a solution in search of a problem, and that the reason that the solution is proposed is consonant with an explanation of racism.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 22 2019, @09:56PM
There isn't a literacy requirement. Poll workers will assist you if you can't read.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 22 2019, @09:57PM
Bleh, premature Submit.
Electoral fraud will never be proven sufficiently as long as any sort of means of checking for it is rabidly opposed by the left.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by AndyTheAbsurd on Tuesday January 22 2019, @06:12PM (1 child)
Remove "stupid" and the answer is "yes".
11.8% of households in the US were food insecure in 2017 according to the USDA [usda.gov] - and $15 buys a lots of rice and beans, so requiring a fee makes this problem worse. Now you've got people deciding "do I eat or do I vote?" Guess which one is going to win.
Also having to go to a place where the official picture can be taking (often a DMV) can be onerous...especially when voter suppression efforts often focus on making it more difficult for these people to get to such a location [al.com].
Please note my username before responding. You may have been trolled.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 22 2019, @09:54PM
Anyone in that situation already has ID. You can't sign up for government aid without it.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Kalas on Monday January 21 2019, @06:50PM
FUCK NO!
(Score: 2) by DutchUncle on Monday January 21 2019, @07:16PM (7 children)
There already IS a national ID, called a "passport", which SUPERSEDES state ID like a driver license. It might be convenient to have a passport-level-of-trust ID that was good EVERYWHERE in the country - ALL states, ALL purposes - and was also a wallet-sized card instead of a booklet. (Hint: Global Entry is such a card.) Since it is FEDERAL, it should be available at the same level of convenience as other FEDERAL access, like every single post office (where they take passport applications right now), and if it is going to be so important and so widespread, then maybe the certification of application materials (information and photo) must be supported at more levels; every single town hall, or even every justice of the peace (if they can certify a marriage, they can certify your documents, right?). One of the problems with state voter ID laws has been that the states simultaneously limit what constitutes a valid ID, and where people can get valid ID (including location, hours open, weekend access, etc.). If EVERYBODY is supposed to be able to get this ID, and it is made more conveniently available without fear or favor, then it becomes the counter to the exclusionary goals of insisting on presenting an ID.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @07:22PM
So like a wallet sized version of a passport? It exists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Passport_Card [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @07:31PM (3 children)
Which would beg the question: Why is it the Federal government's job to issue any kind of ID? (Hint: the first sentence here [wikipedia.org] might give the reason why they exist.) Maybe a Federal identification used for purposes other than international travel would be the next step along the lines of enabling fascism. (Kind of like the failed promise that a Social Security Number would ever be used as an identity number outside of the Social Security program.) Especially since one can right now pay to obtain a passport and use that if one needed to, as unnecessarily expensive as it is.
So, how about NO!!!!
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @09:10PM (1 child)
No, it would not beg the question. [begthequestion.info] Phrasing your point incorrectly undercuts your effectiveness. Please avoid this error in the future. I beg of you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @04:11PM
Except that my actual question was prompted by the conclusive assumptions that the purpose of a Federal ID is to be usable everywhere and that it is the Federal government's job to issue an ID that is usable everywhere including intra-nationally instead of one primarily for international use. Neither assumption is correct. So my question was indeed begged by the parent's pre-assumed conclusions to disprove them, even though my dispute took the literal form of a question.
But I thank you for the review - it was indeed worthwhile.
Any questions? Begged or otherwise?
(Score: 3, Informative) by fyngyrz on Monday January 21 2019, @09:14PM
It prompts the question.
Check it out: "begs the question" [wikipedia.org]
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Government: Designed to provide you with "service" and...
...the Media: Designed to provide you with Vaseline.
(Score: 4, Funny) by krishnoid on Monday January 21 2019, @10:11PM
Well, maybe not everywhere [youtube.com] ...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @11:14PM
Passports currently don't have an address that can 1) serve as proof of residency for voting purposes, and 2) provide the government with a current address to send the SWAT team to at 4am.
If I move, I do not have to get my passport updated. I am required to update my state record. If I didn't drive, I could probably live with just a passport.
(Score: 3, Informative) by EvilSS on Monday January 21 2019, @07:45PM (5 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @08:38PM
Presumably a national ID card would state whether you are a citizen or not. Some states, like California, will give their state drivers' licenses out to non-citizens, so possession of a state ID card proves nothing as far as citizenship goes.
The reason this may be considered a civil rights issue is that as voting fraud by non-citizens is easy, the votes by citizens who are in minority groups are thus diluted. If voting required an ID that actually stated citizenship status or lack thereof, voting fraud would be more difficult.
(Score: 2) by stretch611 on Monday January 21 2019, @08:55PM (3 children)
While I am usually against anti-privacy things, I actually like the idea of a National ID card.
But, for my support, it needs to replace the others. Get rid of State Drivers Licenses, State/County IDs, and even social security and medicare cards. Replace them all with this one single entity. As for passports, maybe... If it works well enough, after all don't passports require stamping at the border which would not be feasible with a laminated National ID that was modeled off of current state driver's licenses?
If you think that you are not being tracked already, you are clueless.
Also, these databases are already linked together whether you realize it or not.
The National ID card should be/needs to be free as well. People should not have to pay just for identification (especially if it is ever used for voter verification as alluded to in other posts.)
States can still enact charges for driving privileges... but instead of issuing separate cards, they can just electronically attach driving status to the id... After all, when you get pulled over now the first thing the cops do is run your plates through a database and figure out the most likely driver (and any possible threat) when you hand them your Driver's License, they scan and check that it is valid as well... Nothing that can't be done with a national ID instead.
Since all the laws passed after 9/11 and the patriot act dealing with identification, it is actually a pain in the ass to get a driver's license renewed. you need to bring proof of id like a birth certificate or passport, as well as a separate proof of address like a utility bill or bank statement. (and how easy is the latter in this day and age of online bill pay.) How many times do you want to subject yourself to that? At least with it being done federally, you only need to subject yourself as required by the feds and not based on a hodge-podge of various local laws.
Also, replacing state driver's licenses with a single card linked together would help accuracy... When I last renewed my driver's license, and dealt with the above mess of paperwork, my current state said that I was fine and ok to drive... BUT, a state I lived in back in 1995 said that my driving privileges were revoked. My current state said that the renewal would not go through until I clear up the issue in the other state.
The only information I was given was a phone number to the prior state's DMV. That state gave me a citation number and the local municipality that issued it and said deal with that city than call us back. I called the city court and they told me it was a parking ticket. I could pay it in person, on-line, or by mail with a 2 week processing delay. BUT I could not pay it online without a license plate number and they refused to tell me any other information... not even that my name was on the citation or type of car. Even if I could remember my license plate number from 20 years ago(which I can't), I still didn't know because I had 2 cars back then. Fortunately, I still have friends and relatives in the area and was able to get them to go, but they forgot to even check if the information on the citation was for one of my cars at the time. (Not that I could effectively fight a 20 year old ticket from 1,000 miles away.)
Once the citation was paid, I still had to deal with the old state dmv. They verified that it was paid, and then they wanted a separate $100 restoration fee. (f-ing crooks) On top of that they said I needed to file paperwork to clear up a problem with their records. I had not one, but two driver's licenses issued by the state and I needed to fix that. (It turns out the difference was one said I had green eyes, the other said I had blue eyes; and both with the same prior address.) They said they did not know how long it would take, that it takes in state residents about 4-6 weeks to clear it up and no idea how long it would take by mail. Due to the problem, I was unable to pay online...(f-this!!!) Once they got their money, I checked with my current state (and shocked that they did not enact their own surcharge) got my license renewed and have not even bothered to fix the prior state's flaw.
So what part of multiple databases and bureaucracies do you want to keep around on the ill-conceived notion that they don't already track you now?
Note: While the prior state has the "Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV)" as a separate top level state agency... My current state has it as a division within the top level agency "Department of Revenue." That is truly what most states think of driving privileges... Revenue.
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 21 2019, @09:38PM (2 children)
I've never had to show supporting documentation to renew my driver's license. I walk in, show my expired or expiring DL, slap some cash on the counter, wait a few minutes, step in front of the photo screen, and five minutes later, I'm out the door with a still warm laminated card in my wallet.
I also have one of those. I was ticketed for speeding, license was eventually suspended with the stipulation that they wouldn't be renewed until I attended classes. I laughed at them - I had important stuff to do, like a Med cruise. Years later, I learned that my "privileges" were STILL suspended in that state. Fek 'em. There is little to no chance that they'll ever catch up to me since my newest home state has severed the DL number/identity from your social security number. If I'm ever stopped in that state, and asked for SSN, I'll make one up on the spot.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @10:22PM
I'm sure your state still collects SSNs, even if they don't put them on their licenses. Plus, how did you get your current license without presenting your old one?
If you haven't gone through what GP went through yet, you're lucky your old state forgot - for now. There's no statute of limitations for government demands, and I doubt you'll find a lawyer that would help you even if the other state had errors in their records. May be hard getting to legal advice by bus also.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @12:42AM
Only requires a birth certificate for your initial id or license (id can gotten at 15 or 16 regardless of driver's permit status, although almost nobody does), and a thumbprint (pre-9/11 fraud prevention, also required at banks for more than a 100 or 1000 dollar deposit now.) Even my last passport 10 years ago only required a birth certificate plus state id photocopy for certification. Maybe this has changed in the years since, but if it has it is not because the need for more security has increased. As an alternative, go read Nevada's state id requirements. They have the same requirements as a federal employee or commercial transport worker id, which is full handprints and a bunch of background checking.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @08:14PM (8 children)
Only about 40% of americans even bother to vote, and of those, half deliberately choose the most disgusting, psychopathic, degenerate piece of shit candidate, just for the lulz or to stick it to the "establishment", whatever the fuck that is.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Monday January 21 2019, @08:34PM (2 children)
I can tell you what good it would do: Those who voted for Trump are generally government-distrusting people. That is, people who are the least likely to get such an ID card. If such an ID card is required to vote, then it would remove those voters. ;-)
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 21 2019, @09:41PM (1 child)
That seems contrary to what Dems are always telling us. An ID card will supposedly remove the Dem voting base: illegals, blacks who are too ignorant to get to the DMV, and ????
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @11:31PM
Damn you're stupid. Impressive levels you've reached, really!
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @08:46PM
I agree. Clinton voters are gross.
(Score: 3, Touché) by stretch611 on Monday January 21 2019, @09:01PM (1 child)
Well, degenerate... and POS... Didn't over 90% of the people in the last presidential election vote for that type of candidate?
Admittedly, disgusting and psychopathic did tend to make me think more of Trump than Clinton... only because she hides it better.
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @12:53AM
Clinton was the forerunner for worst candidate for tech rights, far and away above Trump even after making Pai FCC head.
Most people forget her husband supported the DMCA and since her time in congress she has supported some of the most heinous pro-copyright, pro-surveillance, and anti-tech freedom legistlation to have passed through the halls of congress.
The true problems we had were Bernie signing on with the Dems followed by the people who wouldn't have voted for Sanders choosing to vote for Clinton or Trump instead of voting Stein or Johnson. I personally think Johnson had an even crazier platform than Stein, but either of them would have been a better president than Trump or Clinton on account of their minority political status in DC, and more importantly the erosion of voter support from both the Democrats and Republicans would've shaken up the lobbying establishment, who would no longer be able to devote their largest donations to a few key candidates with the expectation of one of them winning. Combined with the federal funding the third parties would have recieved from their 5+ percent of voters, even if their bids were unsuccessful we could have 3-5 candidates recieving the federal advertising support which would make it harder for the media to leave them out in televised debates during the following election cycle, which would further erode the duopoly in politics we have in America.
Don't forget John Jackson and Jack Johnson from Futurama! They perfectly caricatured american politics... before mecha Nixon won the election in a clean sweep of the candidates :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 21 2019, @09:03PM
Look, if people want to vote for Hillary, that's their right.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 22 2019, @12:07PM
Just half? Please. The vast, vast majority of voters simply vote for 'the lesser evil.' You might think that one candidate is less evil than the other one, and that's fine, but make no mistake that the establishment candidates are evil. And Trump is an establishment candidate, seeing as how he tries to super-serve the elites.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Monday January 21 2019, @08:44PM (1 child)
A Federally issued photo ID that
So, in other words a standard passport?
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday January 22 2019, @10:15AM
The question in my mind is "why do you want a national ID card, when all you need is a state ID card?". Anything at the national level will have way more beaurocracy than anything at a state level - why is a more inefficient, less responsive, and more expensive system desireable?
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves