Submitted via IRC for SoyCow1984
Microsoft begs you to stop using Internet Explorer
In a blog post, Microsoft senior cybersecurity architect Chris Jackson said continuing to use Internet Explorer is racking up companies a ton of "technical debt." Essentially, by continuing to use IE, organizations are creating additional costs down the line by selecting the easiest, most convenient solution now rather than the approach that is best for the long term. Jackson laid out a scenario in which a company, choosing the easiest possible route since Internet Explorer 6, goes to make a webpage today and ends up using a 1999 implementation of web standards by default.
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Microsoft Begs You to Stop Using Internet Explorer
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(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @02:18AM
Microscums can pry IE 6 off my cold dead fingers.
IE 6 for life.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @02:22AM (13 children)
I have worked for the United States federal government in a large three letter agency for nearly twenty years now. When I first started, we used Windows NT 4, Internet Explorer 4, and Microsoft Office 97.
The agency is currently rolling out Windows 10 Enterprise with some workstations still using Windows 7 Enterprise. I received a new notebook computer with Windows 10 Enterprise a few months ago. We still use Internet Explorer 11. All Intranet websites depend on it and simply won't work on any other web browser. I was informed by our local IT department head that we can use Microsoft Edge for external websites, but that seems to be half true. About every fourth external web page I peruse in Microsoft Edge is redirected and opens up in IE 11 instead. There must be some policy setting or something that mandates opening websites in Internet Explorer 11 and redirects traffic from Edge, or it gets tripped up by the firewall which is a local domain. Why it only periodically happens, I don't know. Anyhoo, Uncle Sam will keep using Internet Explorer for a long, long time.
Heck, we still have new submarines being commissioned which use Windows XP as the operating system.
(Score: 2, Informative) by ShadowSystems on Sunday February 10 2019, @04:23AM
In order to use Edge you have to be using Win10.
If you're using Win10 with a screen reader then MS warns you *not* to use Edge because it's not compatible; you're to use IE or a third party browser instead.
So which is it? Do we use IE in order to be compatible with our screen reader or do we use a third party browser in order to be compatible with the rest of the world?
"Good luck with that" indeed.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday February 10 2019, @04:49AM (8 children)
I hear from Navy and the VA that DOS text-mode applications are still in-use (though you can still run them on a modern version of Windows).
No surprise about the XP on the subs, because new technologies when it comes to military gadgetry are a fuckhuge pain in the ass of expense and red-tape to qualify. There is a case with us now where we are going to modernize a certain test rig for a picky defense contractor. One of the rules for qualification is, no joke, if you move the test stand more than 4 feet is has to be re-qualified and re-certified. That applies even if you just want to move the setup for efficiency reasons without changing the setup itself. I hear that with the contractor in question re-qualification usually takes around 2 years.
I'm all about improvising and band-aid fixes, and it was really tough to get used to stonewalling band-aid fixes in favor of trying to convince management that an upgrade was instead needed (fortunately that wasn't my decision to make, but it is still painful having to let a problem, which could be fixed with a patch or a couple hours of code, fester on the floor to coerce management to make the necessary upgrade).
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @06:35AM (5 children)
One of the applications that we use at least once a day is text mode. Drives me bonkers because it requires the use of the function keys, so on our modern computers we have to hold down the FN button to use them. On top of that, for awhile, IT was replacing our machines with ones that had keyboards that only went up to F10. It took over a year to get that one straightened out until the head of the department finally had his computer replaced and suddenly understood our complaints when he couldn't use the application which required pressing F12.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by acid andy on Sunday February 10 2019, @01:11PM (2 children)
FFS, if such a simple concept takes direct experience for them to comprehend it, they shouldn't be in management. Unless of course, as is more likely, they only care about it when it annoys them directly. That kind of sociopathy is counter-productive of course, because the business is losing money while employees have to work around crap like that.
"rancid randy has a dialogue with herself[...] Somebody help him!" -- Anonymous Coward.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday February 10 2019, @01:45PM
"Whenever we get a new computer, we have to wait six months for an expert to fly out from Washington, then another month for him to bless it."
-- Lt. Charles Russell "Russ" Crawford USN (Ret.)
While Dad was quite proud of his Top Secret Clearance, I am _dead_ _certain_ he was cleared to do Signals Intelligence work.
I'd rather not tell you more than what he _specifically_ told me one day, but I have really good reasons to believe he really did do SIGINT:
"Mike?"
"Yes, Dad?"
"Aboard submarines there are some black boxes."
(I have it on good authority that actually, they are grey.)
"And there are some quiet men who tend to those black boxes."
My father was a quiet man.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @08:27PM
He is an old-money political appointee. Other than being skilled at bullshitting and the ole' Wine and Dine, he can barely function. My desk partner literally had to show him how to unlock a car when the battery on his fob died, literally ever single virus breakout we've had starts with him, he routinely falls for phishing attempts, and he claims to be gluten-free, but has no problem eating the gluten-loaded wheat toast after using the "gluten-free" setting on the office toaster.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @06:02PM (1 child)
You could have simply looked up the alt code for the F12 key in the meantime.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @08:20PM
There isn't one. Modern computers don't emulate key presses anymore. Instead, the OS maps the sequence to the current code page, or it can be overridden by the target program (which is how Word has the same well-known sequences regardless of code page). The problem is that F12 doesn't exist as a sequence in the code page, and cannot be access by number.
(Score: 2, Funny) by pTamok on Sunday February 10 2019, @12:35PM
if you move the test stand more than 4 feet is has to be re-qualified and re-certified.
Hmm. Is there any rule against moving it in several 4-foot increments? Or is it more than 4-feet from a particular (fixed) location. If there is no rule against incremental movements, what is the minimum period of time between moves? What if you jack up the building it is in and move the building?
As it is (presumably) on the surface of the earth, unless it is precisely on the earth's axis of rotation, it is moving all the time at a tangential dependent on the distance from the earth's axis of rotation which could be quite large. Does that require continuous requalification and recertification?
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday February 10 2019, @01:13PM
"fuckhuge".
You Ethanol-fueled, are an Officer and a Gentleman.
May I offer you a reacharound?
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by canopic jug on Sunday February 10 2019, @05:10AM
I was informed by our local IT department head that we can use ...
Everyone seems to have confused IT staff with Microsoft resellers. You have the latter, probably even on the payroll. It's an all-too-common problem, and difficult if they've become embedded. But you know what you have to do [gao.gov].
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Joe Desertrat on Sunday February 10 2019, @12:16PM
I'm pretty sure most court systems also require IE to view documents.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @05:22PM
It's a shame the government is allowed to use proprietary software at all. But, with how bought and paid for our government is, I'm not surprised that no one sees it as a problem that it's entirely dependent upon corporations.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @02:30AM (3 children)
Standards are not standard.
I use 4 browsers today on windows 10
1) IE because old equipment - printer’s even new ones do not work with anything else
2) Edge best for hardware monitoring equipment & warehouse management
3) Firefox best for scan gun management
4) Chrime “basic” web and printer management software
Yup based on what you need to do I have to pick right browser. IE is best for “old”. I have one piece of hard that only works with 2003 java engines. All modern browser refuse!
Yes we have ME and XP in system still to manage large special hardware
(Score: 5, Insightful) by crafoo on Sunday February 10 2019, @03:02AM
Ahh the glorious cross-platform future smart web pages and web apps have brought us all! GUI elements changing look and behavior page-to-page! What will pressing the spacebar do in _this_ video player? Who Knows! You like surprises, everyone likes surprises. Press it and find out!
(Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 10 2019, @03:30AM
That's the second typo today to make me grin. Chrime browser. Or, was it a typo on Google's part? "We're going to commit a lot of crimes with our new Chrome browser!"
I'm going to buy my defensive radar from Temu, just like Venezuela!
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday February 10 2019, @01:21PM
- Idea.
I cannot print envelopes on $$$$ NedSpace's truly-high end HP Enterprise Printer because HP'S OWN SOFTWARE!!!!! does NOT support OS X.
The day after Soggy Jobs' Indiegogo Launch on Wednesday the 20th [soggy.jobs] $HINT_HINT I'm going to drop a few hundred pieces of direct mail to those of my listed companies that provide their street addresses on their sites. That means I MUST print envelopes. Even the very shittiest inkjet would do.
But I Am Determined Not To Be Beaten.
So I'll install Windows 7 in a VM, then print envelopes from there.
(Why the day after Indiegogo launch? So my cover letter can point out the - I Pray To Baby Jesus! - huge success of my launch day.)
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by choose another one on Sunday February 10 2019, @02:41AM (3 children)
Using 1999 implementation of web standards - so, like, less than 1Mb per page, page load tested at modem speeds, didn't require scripts to work, had buttons that looked like, well, buttons, tested and worked in multiple browsers, degraded nicely for text-only, html source that was readable and understandable, I could go on but jeez, the horror of it.
It's disturbing how primitive we were back then, and how far we've come, scuse me, must load a recent web page to block out the ancient imagery, must get fix of five a-page nested ad-syndicate divs around, behind and in front of the content (optional), must ensure network is properly loaded with 200+ background xmlhttp requests, oh no it's not loading, must... must... must open another tab and try to get my ads via another page, and another...
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Sunday February 10 2019, @01:17PM (1 child)
I thought that too but then I realized in IE there was always horrible behavior that wasn't standards compliant, so avoiding that is probably advisable. On the other hand I'm all for someone building a clean, lightweight web page that would work across all browsers from 1999 which I think is what you meant.
"rancid randy has a dialogue with herself[...] Somebody help him!" -- Anonymous Coward.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday February 10 2019, @01:31PM
The _only_ JS does the Tiger Striping - and yes, that's the correct Term Of Art - of my tabular listings.
The CSS is entirely unnecessary on the desktop.
The site presently does not use SSL, and will _never_ redirect automatically to HTTPS. Rather, there will be a completely identical but separate SSL site for those who aren't using CyberCafes in Mongolia, as well as for Mom and Aunt Peggy, who use Safari 3 to this very day because as Mom quite furiously shouted one day "APPLE SELLS COMPUTERS!" and she already has in iMac that looks quite cool in her lovely home.
Also damn near every rural public library in the United States.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday February 10 2019, @01:23PM
http://www.kindgirls.com/ [kindgirls.com]
There are only very minor differences between their design right now and their design from Y2K1.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday February 10 2019, @03:44AM (3 children)
15 years behind the way everyone else uses their computer :v
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @10:01AM (2 children)
Internet? Why would people want to connect computers together?
Mosaic? Netscape? Who cares what these little people do.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday February 10 2019, @11:12AM (1 child)
Why would anyone need more than 640K of memory?
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday February 10 2019, @01:09PM
It's not just Redmond.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @04:19AM (4 children)
Even at the beginning, the browser was a much more complex piece of software than the server. We chuckled at the fact that Netscape gave away the browsers for free, while selling the servers for profit.
Today, html/http/css/javascript/encryption/etc. has gotten so crazy complex, there are no piece of software comparable in complexity with the web browser other than the os/hypervisor. Even Microsoft gave up.
Maybe it's time to invent a better, simpler ecosystem. Because Mozilla will fail.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by jb on Sunday February 10 2019, @05:50AM
...gopher was much more fun anyway!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @07:19AM (1 child)
Aye, much more complex than the OS, and in the case of Chrime (love that typo), endless rewriting of everything. I guess that is one way to mitigate security holes: never leave any line of source remain for more than three months, so crackers can't rely on a static target.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @09:00AM
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday February 10 2019, @01:08PM
Recall that Cousin Chuck, despite coding in FORTRAN, having a Master's in Architecture from Harvard and having been his high school Valedictorian - yes, it's not just me, my whole entire extended family are smart guys and smart gals - teaches at a graduate school of architecture.
That school's entire website other than its homepage consist of nothing other than PDF documents. The Homepage just barely has enough markup and CSS to esthetically present the links to those Adobe Reader docs.
The Mind Simply Reels.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday February 10 2019, @01:05PM (1 child)
wget takes a custom user agent string.
I want you all to randomly select an IE6 user agent string - lots of versions, WfW or no WfW? - then, at your option, do either wget --resursion suckywebsite.com or wget --span-hosts bluewidgets.com.
With host spanning, you'll want to recurse two or three links from each page, so they credit you as an interested user.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday February 10 2019, @01:53PM
I Should Not Drink And Bot.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 10 2019, @01:20PM
That beautifully captures using any piece of proprietary software.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 11 2019, @05:47AM
They should just put a shortcut to edge called internet explorer in paver if the actual internet explorer and start Fielding big requests. Anything broken by this change shouldn't exist anyway, so we all win.