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posted by martyb on Monday February 18 2019, @06:58AM   Printer-friendly
from the trying-to-engender-goodwill? dept.

U.S. Airlines to Offer New Gender Options for Non-Binary Passengers

Air travelers who want to will soon be able to choose a gender option other than "male" or "female" when buying their tickets.

The new "undisclosed" or "unspecified" options are meant to make things easier for travelers and airlines as a growing number of local, state and national governments issue identification documents with alternative gender choices, according to Airlines for America, a trade group that represents many major United States carriers.

"U.S. airlines value a culture of diversity and inclusion, both in the workplace and for our passengers," the group said in a statement.

The Transportation Security Administration requires that travelers have gender markers associated with their tickets that match the identification documents they present at agency checkpoints. The new standard will make it easier for passengers who are gender nonconforming to travel with documents that more accurately represent their identities.

Delta Air Lines, which left the Airlines for America trade group in 2015, will also offer the new options.

If you're even flying at all, I'd suggest picking "Undisclosed" or "Unspecified" simply as a way to mess with the TSA.

Also at The Daily Beast, MarketWatch, and USA Today.


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  • (Score: 4, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @07:14AM (1 child)

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @07:14AM (#802816) Homepage Journal

    It's probably for the best they didn't put a blank that you can fill in yourself. I don't think the FAA or TSA would look kindly upon that many Apache helicopters at the airport.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:20PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:20PM (#803110)

      As nice as Apaches are, i identify as A-10.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:24AM (28 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:24AM (#802820)

    Let's just omit the field for sex then as it now has no meaning.

    • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday February 18 2019, @08:54AM (15 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday February 18 2019, @08:54AM (#802848) Journal

      Why is this flamebait? He makes a point. If you can be anything you want to be, then the terms are meaningless bullshit. You will ALWAYS BE male or female. You might wear a disguise to avoid being identified, but when the victim of a crime gives the police a description of you, you will never be "Australian Dropbear" or "Apache Helicopter" or "scum at the bottom of the pool".

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @09:56AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @09:56AM (#802876)

        Now now.
        Pond scum is not a sex.
        Let's make this a bit more pc before someone gets sued for sexual vilification.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by coolgopher on Monday February 18 2019, @10:11AM (5 children)

        by coolgopher (1157) on Monday February 18 2019, @10:11AM (#802884)

        You will ALWAYS BE male or female.

        That's a very limited world view, even just speaking biologically. You might want to consider widening your horizons a bit.

        • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:33AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:33AM (#802894)

          Fiction has it's place. Science, civil society and aviation are not that place.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday February 18 2019, @10:58AM (3 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday February 18 2019, @10:58AM (#802900) Journal

          Even a true hermaphrodite is going to be male or female, depending on his mood, or whatever. It's pretty much a binary. There was Boy George, of course, but even he dressed as both when he couldn't decide which to be.

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @03:10PM (2 children)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @03:10PM (#802973) Homepage Journal

            How you dress or feel has nothing to do with whether you're male or female. We don't actually have any standards for how you must feel for either gender, only norms that almost nobody conforms all the way to. So, be as atypical as you like but I'm not going to think of you as anything but born male and still male, born female and still female, or an unfortunate mutant.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday February 18 2019, @05:39PM (1 child)

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday February 18 2019, @05:39PM (#803060) Journal

              How you dress or feel has nothing to do with whether you're male or female.

              If I'm to believe all the stuff I've read on the subject, there are some very small number of people with both sets of genitalia. Anybody's guess what happens when such a person is flooded with hormones at puberty. I did specify genuine hermaphrodites, as opposed to transgenders and such.

              I filtered through two pages of irrelevant hits to find this one - https://www.newhealthadvisor.com/Hermaphrodite-Human-Pictures.html [newhealthadvisor.com] It's enough to give you an idea, I think.

              • (Score: 3, Informative) by dry on Tuesday February 19 2019, @04:46AM

                by dry (223) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @04:46AM (#803343) Journal

                Actually Doctors surgically assigning sex at birth or shortly after is more common then most people realize, especially trimming the clitoris. Sometimes it seems to be done by coin toss. Heard interviews with a couple of them where both felt very strongly the Doctors made the wrong choice.
                Wiki has an interesting article, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex_medical_interventions [wikipedia.org] Things are much more complex then people are simply male or female, and that's not even considering the effects of hormones.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @11:53AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @11:53AM (#802912)

        Labelling an AC a “He”, is gender identification and is 0.66 probably wrong.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Monday February 18 2019, @01:34PM (3 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday February 18 2019, @01:34PM (#802929) Journal

          "He" is the gender-neutral term to use when you don't know whether it is a he or a she. Did you not go to school?

          • (Score: 4, Informative) by Thexalon on Monday February 18 2019, @05:46PM (2 children)

            by Thexalon (636) on Monday February 18 2019, @05:46PM (#803063)

            I did. The right pronoun when you don't know the gender of the person you're talking to has been, through most of the history of the English language, "they". And if you think that's wrong, invent a time machine, learn older forms of English, and go back to tell Chaucer, Thackerey, Lord Byron, Jane Austin, and quite a few other big-name authors that they were wrong.

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
            • (Score: 2, Disagree) by Runaway1956 on Monday February 18 2019, @06:28PM (1 child)

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday February 18 2019, @06:28PM (#803083) Journal

              "They" is plural, "he" is singular. If you think it is alright to assign multiple personalities to an unknown individual, no wonder so many women have split personalities. It's all your fault, you mysogenist!

              Wikipedia has some politically correct bullshit on their page, but even they admit that "he" is "acceptable". I won't even consider any of the queer pronouns, and as has often been observed, he/she can get unweildy.

              In six decades of speaking, "he" has never been wrong when used as a gender neutral pronoun. I'm not about to start speaking differently because some young pups failed to get an education. I don't get "offended" when I'm reading an article, and the author uses "she", why should you be offended when I use "he"?

              • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @09:10PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @09:10PM (#803185)

                https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/singular-nonbinary-they [merriam-webster.com]

                Language evolves, you go ahead and hold on to your stubborn ways so your grand kids can be embarrassed about your racism AND lack of basic human decency. It would be a shame if kids lost their anti-role models!

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by cmdrklarg on Monday February 18 2019, @05:39PM

        by cmdrklarg (5048) Subscriber Badge on Monday February 18 2019, @05:39PM (#803061)

        >> You will ALWAYS BE male or female.

        Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

        --
        The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
      • (Score: 2) by corey on Tuesday February 19 2019, @01:22AM (1 child)

        by corey (2202) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @01:22AM (#803298)

        What about if I am white or otherwise, or have blonde or dark hair? Most people have a penis or vagina, most people have light or dark hair, most people have 2 arms. Why don't we have tick boxes for the other features?

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by meustrus on Tuesday February 19 2019, @05:01AM

          by meustrus (4961) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @05:01AM (#803352)

          So why put up with the gender question at all?

          To borrow from another conversation, the "they" pronoun is "someone whose gender is unknown" [merriam-webster.com].

          Additionally, everyone should immediately declare their gender as "unknown", because it's none of your damn business.

          --
          If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Monday February 18 2019, @01:31PM (10 children)

      by Thexalon (636) on Monday February 18 2019, @01:31PM (#802926)

      It had no value before either: The only people who gain any value from knowing what kind of genitals you have are those that are considering interacting with them, i.e. potential sex partners and your doctor. It tells you absolutely nothing when making the decision about whether you should be allowed to board a plane.

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @03:12PM (4 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @03:12PM (#802974) Homepage Journal

        It does if they still do the women and children first thing in the event of an emergency that anyone actually survives. That's pretty fucking narrow as a reason though.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 4, Informative) by Thexalon on Monday February 18 2019, @04:23PM (3 children)

          by Thexalon (636) on Monday February 18 2019, @04:23PM (#803022)

          It does if they still do the women and children first thing in the event of an emergency that anyone actually survives.

          That concept hasn't really been part of any kind of professional rescuing operations for the better part of a century. Instead, the pros look for 2 things, in order:
          1. Can a rescue be attempted without a high chance of adding would-be-rescuers to the list of victims? If not, the right thing for rescuers to do is not attempt a rescue. Failing to do so can lead to depressing Darwin Awards [darwinawards.com].

          2. What difference will the rescue make in terms of whether the victim you're trying to help will survive? The "tri" in triage comes from dividing victims into 3 categories, and rescuing them in this order: Those that will die without prompt help but will survive with help, those that are hurt but won't die if they have to wait a while, and those that are dead no matter what the rescuers do. That's not precisely what they do now because triage has become more sophisticated, but it's still the basic framework.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @04:42PM (2 children)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @04:42PM (#803035) Homepage Journal

            You're correct on most of that with the stipulation that professional rescuers are several orders of magnitude less cowardly than your average human being. What they consider acceptable risk is not what most people would if it were their own lives on the rescuer end of the line. They would never have taken up their profession to begin with were they inclined otherwise.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday February 18 2019, @05:36PM (1 child)

              by Thexalon (636) on Monday February 18 2019, @05:36PM (#803056)

              My main source on how emergency response actually works is my sister, who started out as an EMT and now is an ER doc. It was also part of my much lower-level training in basic wilderness medicine back when I was responsible for leading backcountry trips with kids - you always check for the risk to yourself before just going in. For example, if someone was just electrocuted by a downed high-voltage electrical wire, your first goal is to talk to the power company, not to charge in to perform CPR.

              It's not cowardice to evaluate a situation, decide you have about a very low chance of even getting to the victims to do anything useful before succumbing yourself, and make the rational decision that going after the victims would be a bad move. As the saying goes, discretion is the better part of valor.

              --
              The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 0, Funny) by fakefuck39 on Monday February 18 2019, @03:22PM (4 children)

        by fakefuck39 (6620) on Monday February 18 2019, @03:22PM (#802982)

        look at the keyboard expert over here. you are absolutely correct - gender is not used to determine if you can board the plane, nor is that the reason they ask for it. hey buddy - how many international flights have you taken? do you even have a passport?

        gender, your place of employment, your address, as well as the other privacy-invading information they ask, are not used for boarding the plane. it's used to verify the person on the passport is the person holding the passport. the passport - something you should look into getting, uniquely identifies a person. that person can then be looked up in databases with information used to for boarding the plane. information that is completely useless if the passport and the passenger do not match.

        now that we've established what gender is for at the airport, and that you are an ignorant idiot spouting your dumb little theories - let me ask you. would gender be more helpful in its purpose if we had more gender categories? absolutely, so this is a very good idea. put down you're a hydrogen atom, as long as you do it in all aspects of your life in that database - employment history, rent applications, bank loans. there may be may be more than one Thexalon Faggot out there, but only one that identifies as a transgender platypus. This helps more accurately ensure you are the person handing border patrol your passport, if you ever get one. This is not a system that can be gamed by trolls either, since if you identify as a gay platypus on your passport but identify as "old unattractive loser incel" on you bank account, you'll be denied boarding.

        • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday February 18 2019, @04:43PM (2 children)

          by Thexalon (636) on Monday February 18 2019, @04:43PM (#803038)

          I have traveled internationally. So has all of my immediate family. At least where I've traveled, they're looking for a few things on your passport:
          1. Are you who you say you are? That's where the photo comes in, along with any other government-issued ID you might be carrying. They're also looking for signs that you respond readily to the name on the passport, anything you sign matches up, and that you aren't acting nervous. If you're named Mary but have sideburns and a mustache in your passport photo, the person holding that passport needs think they're named "Mary" and either have sideburns and a mustache or look like they can grow one.

          2. Are you allowed to enter the country you're traveling to? That's not affected by your gender or physical sex in any way.

          What they don't do without a damn good reason is grope your crotch to ensure that your genitals match what your passport says you should have. That makes "M" or "F" a less useful data point than height or weight.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
          • (Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday February 19 2019, @04:52AM

            by dry (223) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @04:52AM (#803347) Journal

            I thought crutch groping was now common before boarding a flight? Haven't traveled internationally in a long time.

          • (Score: 0) by fakefuck39 on Tuesday February 19 2019, @09:15PM

            by fakefuck39 (6620) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @09:15PM (#803676)

            way to miss the entire point there retard. the point is whether or not more gender categories would be helpful to match the person to the passport. the whole point is that if it didn't say "M" or "F" but instead said "transgender M" it would be more useful to identify you. Like when they pull up your mortgage info and it says "M" but on your passport it says "transgender M." That little computer they have, if you've ever been to secondary inspection, has a bunch of personal info on it - height, weight, eye color, place of employment, the highschool you went to, your bank information. They match that info to what is on your passport, and match it against your replies to their questions.

            If you'd like the experience of secondary, tell them "on a tropical island fucking your father in his loose asshole" when they ask you where you've been upon reentry. I do that when I have a couple of hours to kill and am dying of boredom.

        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @09:36PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @09:36PM (#803194)

          the passport - something you should look into getting, uniquely identifies a person.

          BZZT! Wrong. The MAC (and Real Soon Now™ IPv6) address on your government implanted tracking beacon uniquely identifies you.

          I find your lack of faith in our governmental identification implants disturbing.

    • (Score: 2) by richtopia on Monday February 18 2019, @09:00PM

      by richtopia (3160) on Monday February 18 2019, @09:00PM (#803176) Homepage Journal

      I agree. The only issue I can imagine is TSA, with their rule that groping must occur by members of the same sex. However, if the situation is ambiguous, they should ask on the spot, not consult your air ticket.

      I believe the historical reason is rapid identification of passengers and using the correct pronoun when addressing said customer.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by LVDOVICVS on Monday February 18 2019, @07:25AM (8 children)

    by LVDOVICVS (6131) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:25AM (#802821)

    I identify as a hydrogen atom; simple and unstable.

    • (Score: 4, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @07:35AM (5 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @07:35AM (#802825) Homepage Journal

      I identify as a perl script; simple, efficient, and most folks have a complete inability to understand me.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Monday February 18 2019, @07:54AM

        by krishnoid (1156) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:54AM (#802832)

        Might not be the best idea -- considering the grammar is a little context-sensitive and can't be handled solely via BNF, the TSA may have some problems with that [youtube.com].

      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:16AM (3 children)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:16AM (#803257) Journal

        That actually works very well; I've gotten output from /dev/urandom that's about as comprehensible as some Perl. And some of your arguments.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @01:34PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @01:34PM (#802928)

      Hydrogen atoms are stable. Of course if you don't leave them alone, they'll react violently.

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by LVDOVICVS on Monday February 18 2019, @06:36PM

        by LVDOVICVS (6131) on Monday February 18 2019, @06:36PM (#803086)

        How dare you! If I choose to refer to my volatility as instability that's my right as a hydrogen atom. You can just check your noble gas privilege and quit presuming my molecular properties.

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:36AM (28 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:36AM (#802826)

    We've crossed the line from compassion to enabling. Why just this one thing? We shouldn't be so limited...

    If you are 5'10" and weigh only 90 pounds, but you insist that you are obese, we should all accept your self-identification. It's so wrong to believe in anorexia. All obese people, even ones who don't "pass" very well, need our encouragement to lose weight. We should celebrate every weight loss milestone.

    If you think that the CIA is listening to your thoughts, we should respect that. We shouldn't suggest things like Zyprexia and lithium. We should confirm that the CIA really does listen to your mind.

    If you think your life has no value and it is time to kill yourself, we shouldn't challenge this. We should help, offering to loan things like rope and guns and cars.

    If you feel that you need more opiods, we should help you get some. Providing oxycontin or krokodil is what is right for you. Nobody else has a right to claim otherwise, especially if that would hurt your feelings.

    • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:48AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:48AM (#802829)

      These people suffer from gender dysphoria.
      It's a mental illness.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by FatPhil on Monday February 18 2019, @10:18AM (4 children)

        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday February 18 2019, @10:18AM (#802889) Homepage

        So are all the other body dysmorphias. The analogy was a good one.

        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @03:13PM (3 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @03:13PM (#802975) Homepage Journal

          Possibly but it wasn't a car analogy and should be discounted.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:42PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:42PM (#803128)

            My Toyota identifies as a Mercedes, except for the purposes of insurance.

            • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:12PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:12PM (#803145)

              My Honda Civic identifies as a Tesla Model S, and how dare those bigoted supercharger stations refuse to offer service!

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:30AM

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:30AM (#803268) Homepage Journal

              My Toyota identifies as a Toyota. It's got over three hundred sixty thousand miles on it, so it can hold its head high in any company.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by cubancigar11 on Monday February 18 2019, @07:54AM (21 children)

      by cubancigar11 (330) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:54AM (#802831) Homepage Journal

      All that is fine, but there are 2 questions that need to be asked:

      1. What is exactly an airline wants to know? Are they interested in knowing which genital you have? Do they want to know how "nice" they need to be while groping? Why do they want to know my gender in the first place? If it is a government requirement, why does the government want to know my gender while I am traveling? Depending on the answer to the above questions, one could argue if they need to provide 2 or more options.

      2. A simple option of 'Other' beside Male and Female is not a problem. 'Other' do exist. If you think there are people abusing that option, then the solution is not to remove 'Other'. So what should be done to stop it?

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Apparition on Monday February 18 2019, @08:19AM (14 children)

        by Apparition (6835) on Monday February 18 2019, @08:19AM (#802840) Journal

        A simple option of 'Other' beside Male and Female is not a problem. 'Other' do exist. If you think there are people abusing that option, then the solution is not to remove 'Other'. So what should be done to stop it?

        Change "Other" to "Ill." If you're a hermaphrodite, you're physically ill. If you identify as something other than male, female, or hermaphrodite, then you're mentally ill.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by cubancigar11 on Monday February 18 2019, @08:34AM (12 children)

          by cubancigar11 (330) on Monday February 18 2019, @08:34AM (#802843) Homepage Journal

          If you are born into it, is there any reason to call it 'ill' if you are well functioning? Mentally ill, I can fully understand. Physically ill? That is one hell of a slippery slope. We already have too many things being defined as illness. Apparently, if you aren't an ideal worker, you are ill. I would prefer if that is not the case.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @09:30AM (8 children)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @09:30AM (#802862) Homepage Journal

            If restless leg syndrome can be called an illness, anything can. I'd say being a hermaphrodite is more of a birth defect than an illness but it's really up to the person in question how they choose to look at it. They can consider it a superpower for all I care.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Monday February 18 2019, @10:12AM (1 child)

              by Magic Oddball (3847) on Monday February 18 2019, @10:12AM (#802885) Journal

              True, RLS isn't an illness -- it's a syndrome [wikipedia.org]. It's definitely a real physical condition, though, not just a case where someone is antsy, energetic, or lacking in self-control.

              • (Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Monday February 18 2019, @11:18AM

                by cubancigar11 (330) on Monday February 18 2019, @11:18AM (#802903) Homepage Journal

                True. In fact, I don't have a problem with calling something illness. A good friend of mine, I suspect, is suffering from RLS but he gets offended (rightly so) if someone repeatedly starts pointing that out while he is talking.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:32AM (5 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:32AM (#802893)

              I'd say being a hermaphrodite is more of a birth defect than an illness but it's really up to the person in question how they choose to look at it. They can consider it a superpower for all I care.

              So you're saying it's OK for a hermaphrodite to identify their gender-related condition as something other than "Male" or "Female"? What about other gender-related conditions? Congratulations, you're now a liberal.

              • (Score: 3, Interesting) by cubancigar11 on Monday February 18 2019, @11:31AM (3 children)

                by cubancigar11 (330) on Monday February 18 2019, @11:31AM (#802905) Homepage Journal

                I am neither liberal nor conservative. I hate identity politics. I haven't put any effort in figuring out which label defines me. I agree to most of what Jordan Peterson says, and I am open to people having character flaws.

                • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @03:19PM (2 children)

                  by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @03:19PM (#802980) Homepage Journal

                  I halfway-to-mostly agree with most of what I've been forced to listen to by him. He's extremely poor at conveying a message to anyone outside of academia (boring as fuck, long-winded, and uses words with entirely different meanings in academia than in general use) though and generally at least slightly off-base on any given topic.

                  --
                  My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                  • (Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Wednesday February 20 2019, @06:50AM (1 child)

                    by cubancigar11 (330) on Wednesday February 20 2019, @06:50AM (#803903) Homepage Journal

                    Yes, all those are traits that define academia. It is an indictment of our times that voices aligning with conservative ideas are ignored only because they don't sound academic enough. "Reality has a well-known liberal bias" - An ignorant comedian trained in acting.

                    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday February 20 2019, @11:53PM

                      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday February 20 2019, @11:53PM (#804296) Homepage Journal

                      I just wish he'd take up shooting pool at bars on the weekends. Maybe he'd learn how to communicate with people who aren't in academia without making them want to jab an ice pick through their eardrums.

                      --
                      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 4, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @03:15PM

                by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @03:15PM (#802976) Homepage Journal

                Identify as whatever you like. That's entirely your right. Expecting the world to make allowances for you being silly is not.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday February 18 2019, @04:34PM (2 children)

            by Thexalon (636) on Monday February 18 2019, @04:34PM (#803031)

            I know somebody who is intersex (that's the current technical term for it). That person uses female pronouns and name, and I've never seen nor cared about the details of her genitals, but she's very clear that they aren't one of the 2 more common packages.

            She's not what I would describe as "ill" or "sick": She was born with unusual genitals, yes, but that hasn't stopped her from holding down a job, having a by-all-appearances-happy long-term romance, or maintaining her physical and mental health, so what's the problem? She can't have biological kids, but lots of otherwise healthy people can't have biological kids.

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @04:45PM (1 child)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @04:45PM (#803040) Homepage Journal

              And a lot of healthy people shouldn't have biological kids. From a wisdom standpoint not a "there should be a law" standpoint.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday February 18 2019, @05:56PM

                by Thexalon (636) on Monday February 18 2019, @05:56PM (#803067)

                Alas, as per Idiocracy, a common phenomenon is those that should not have kids screwing up and having kids, while people who would make great parents go childless.

                --
                The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by takyon on Monday February 18 2019, @02:19PM

          by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Monday February 18 2019, @02:19PM (#802952) Journal

          That sounds like an inaccurate representation of "ill". Are people who grow an extra body part or get an arm amputated "ill"?

          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @09:28AM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @09:28AM (#802860) Homepage Journal

        Women and children first purposes, maybe? Beats the shit out of me.

        Nothing. If you find out someone's been playing silly buggers you necessarily have also found out their actual gender and the issue is moot.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:50AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:50AM (#802898)

        What is exactly an airline wants to know?

        So they can enable ignorant people who refuse to sit next to females, males-who-like-males, females-who-like-females, omnivores, people who are melanin-gifted, people who speak foreign languages, people who enjoy a different diet so smell different, people who don't have the same imaginary friends as themselves, or any other groups that their indoctrination system has taught them are, in some way, sub-human. (Don't be too quick to judge. Odds are you've been indoctrinated with some beliefs that others think are just as backward or ignorant but happen to be socially acceptable where you are.)

        • (Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Monday February 18 2019, @11:35AM (1 child)

          by cubancigar11 (330) on Monday February 18 2019, @11:35AM (#802907) Homepage Journal

          Which is to say, they want to provide better services depending on your gender - in which case they can add an option for 'apache helicopter' or NULL for all I care.

          • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @02:02PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @02:02PM (#802941)

            Look, twinkle toes, you know that you can't actually legally claim to be an Apache Attack Helicopter....

            ... until your rotary blades are complete, you have done at least 20 hours in your new flight (running around an oval making pew pew sounds) mode and at least have had your missile harness worn in if not actually test fired with live ammo.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 19 2019, @01:24AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 19 2019, @01:24AM (#803299)

        1. What is exactly an airline wants to know?

        To help identify the body when the face has been ripped off in the crash. E.g. "Oh, that must be Ron Jeremy!"

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 19 2019, @05:10AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 19 2019, @05:10AM (#803356)

          Just use their DNA
          The TSA can collect a "sample" at the gate.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by VeasMKII on Monday February 18 2019, @08:12AM (8 children)

    by VeasMKII (2271) Subscriber Badge on Monday February 18 2019, @08:12AM (#802839) Homepage

    At the end of the day, i don't generally see how knowing someones gender is going to make a blind bit of different to an airline.

    This information probably shouldn't be recorded in the first place. People just throw it into forms without thinking.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday February 18 2019, @08:58AM (2 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday February 18 2019, @08:58AM (#802849) Journal

      Good argument. Why do they want to know? Do females get more comfortable seats? Didn't think so. Do males always get the windows seats? Didn't think so. Some difference in the menu offered? Again, I didn't think so. I'm going to get precisely the same service, or lack thereof, whether I'm male or female, so they don't really need to know diddlysquat about me.

      • (Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Monday February 18 2019, @11:38AM

        by cubancigar11 (330) on Monday February 18 2019, @11:38AM (#802908) Homepage Journal

        I seriously think it is because they want to know how nice they have to be while groping your genitals. And which gender gets to grope you. I suppose female TSA groper might be uncomfortable groping a penis, and a male TSA groper would try to avoid knowing he gets aroused groping tits of a man. That's all I can think of.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by slinches on Monday February 18 2019, @03:56PM

        by slinches (5049) on Monday February 18 2019, @03:56PM (#803004)

        It's a bit morbid to think about, but it's likely for identification purposes in the event of a horrific crash. Burned and mangled bodies can still generally be identified as male or female by their bone structure. Knowing how many of each are on board can be helpful in determining the identity of the remains by excluding ~1/2 of the options.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @11:27AM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @11:27AM (#802904)

      I miss the days when they didn't care about your name, let alone what reproductive organs you had. As long as you had a valid boarding pass, you were welcomed aboard.

      Simpler times.

      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Monday February 18 2019, @02:22PM (3 children)

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Monday February 18 2019, @02:22PM (#802954) Journal

        You can still get on some trains without verification of your name (not sure about cross-country buses). I expect feds/Congress/TSA to ruin that in the coming decades. Probably if high speed rail takes off.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday February 18 2019, @02:48PM

          by isostatic (365) on Monday February 18 2019, @02:48PM (#802961) Journal

          > You can still get on some trains without verification of your name

          WTF? You have to have name verification on *trains*

          Land of the free my arse

          (no name verification on domestic flights in the UK, let alone trains)

        • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday February 18 2019, @06:15PM (1 child)

          by Thexalon (636) on Monday February 18 2019, @06:15PM (#803080)

          Part of the reason they don't worry as much about trains: It's a heck of a lot harder to hijack a train. For starters, there's the problem of getting to the controls and the engineer, which often isn't easy or obvious. Second, once you get there, what are you going to do, demand that the engineer take the train to Libya? Third, if you somehow got that far, the fact that the train is on the ground, has to follow the tracks, and exactly which tracks they're following is controlled outside of the train, means that it's much easier for appropriate authorities to respond to the threat you present. Sure, you might kill a few passengers or something, but you aren't going to be able to do any really serious damage.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:25AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:25AM (#802841)

    "Undecided"

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:03AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:03AM (#802882)

      Oh FFS just helicopter up and admit that you are an Apache Attack Helicopter
      We can see your rotary blades, you know.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @11:35AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @11:35AM (#802906)

    I am machine, you insensitive clod.

  • (Score: 2, Troll) by The Shire on Monday February 18 2019, @02:44PM (3 children)

    by The Shire (5824) on Monday February 18 2019, @02:44PM (#802960)

    Simply change the form to ask what the persons biological sex is and offer three options: Male, Female, Intersexed. It's that simple.

    These questions are for physical identification purposes, not psychological. No one should care who you "think" you are, only what you "physically" are.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @03:30PM (2 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @03:30PM (#802986) Homepage Journal

      Unless you live in Canada and are legally required to use whatever made-up-bullshit pronoun someone feels like using that day.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2) by The Shire on Monday February 18 2019, @07:19PM (1 child)

        by The Shire (5824) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:19PM (#803107)

        Did they actually pass that law? I thought Jordon Peterson helped stop that particular piece of insanity.

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