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posted by janrinok on Monday February 18 2019, @06:54PM   Printer-friendly
from the it-makes-sense dept.

How streaming music could be harming the planet

Once vinyl or a CD is purchased, it can be played over and over again, the only carbon cost coming from running the record player. However, if we listen to our streamed music using a hi-fi sound system it's estimated to use 107 kilowatt hours of electricity a year, costing about £15.00 to run. A CD player uses 34.7 kilowatt hours a year and costs £5 to run.

Solution: Use a smartphone or laptop with headphones unless you are playing music for guests. Download the songs you play repeatedly.


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  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:00PM (19 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:00PM (#803090)

    1) Register each device capable of streaming content to a real person
    2) Track all content listened to on each device
    3) Tax each person based on how much electricity is used (give discounts for listening to educational materials though)
    4) Use the tax revenue to fight climate change by funding educational materials that raise awareness about the problem

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Monday February 18 2019, @07:14PM (6 children)

      by edIII (791) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:14PM (#803104)

      Some climate change deniers I speak with are skeptical of climate change because of the possible agendas of control behind the people pushing it. Meaning, one world government bullshit being forced down our throats in the form of controls to combat climate change.

      You're not fucking helping. It's ridiculous and offensive to promote entire platforms of control (register, monitor, tax) that give preferential treatment to some just to push your agenda. Regardless of whether it may, or may not, be correct or beneficial.

      I'm on the side of climate change, but fuck all if I'm going to give up my rights to privacy and peaceful enjoyment of music because you want to fucking regulate how much power I used to do it. Give discounts for materials you like, or worse, you meant propaganda that helps "educate" the others with goodthink?

      Lemme guess, do you want to call this division the SS? (Streaming Security)

      --
      Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:51PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:51PM (#803170)

        Those 4 steps are so ridiculous that I can only imagine it is from a Libertrollian.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @09:01PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @09:01PM (#803177)

          The list hits all the important points that stakeholders require for an idea to save us from climate change to get off the ground:

          Increase spying. Check.
          Increase taxes. Check.
          Increase propaganda/marketing opportunities. Check.
          Create more of the problem supposedly being solved. Check.

          Look at any "solution" to climate change that gains political traction and you will see it has at least half these qualities. Eg, nuclear power can only hit one at best (increase taxes) so that is a no-go.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:53PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:53PM (#803172)

        Mathematical models have proven the earth is going to mend in 11 years if climate change is not stopped. But you people "on the side of climate change" would rather stream music then do anything to help I guess.

        And fine, make the discount a rebate then. For every hour of noneducational material each device must play an hour of educational material to offset the emissions. Tax or rebate the difference, then people can get paid to learn if they only listen to educational streams.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:29PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:29PM (#803217)

          Maybe they can educate you not to fall for climate change hoaxes. Let me guess... you also don't want to vaccinate your child because of the autism.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 19 2019, @04:42PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 19 2019, @04:42PM (#803528)

        >Some climate change deniers I speak with are skeptical of climate change because of the possible agendas of control behind the people pushing it. Meaning, one world government bullshit being forced down our throats in the form of controls to combat climate change.

        The loonies who think that civilization and science are Marxist plots cannot be reasoned with. There's no point in coddling them either. The longer we coddle them, the longer they vote for the scumbags who feed their delusions.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 20 2019, @10:22AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 20 2019, @10:22AM (#803942)

          I think a major difference is that in the US many people have been waiting for the attempted mass murder purge of everyone who disagrees with some version of communism/socialism. It is not coming unexpectedly as it did in Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, and PRC. Everyone is very clear on what the next steps for you are going to be.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @07:21PM (3 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @07:21PM (#803111) Homepage Journal

      Solution to what, a modern standard of living? You're free to go off-grid and use only candles you made yourself for light if you like but you're no way in hell going to tell me I'm not allowed to do legal things that I can afford to do. Take a bath, hippie.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2) by sjames on Monday February 18 2019, @07:41PM (2 children)

        by sjames (2882) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:41PM (#803125) Journal

        Make sure the candles are pure bees wax so they'll be carbon neutral! :-)

        Personally, I support efforts to reduce carbon emissions, but the parent proposal is akin to fixing a leaky sink during a 500 year flood.

        • (Score: 2) by NateMich on Tuesday February 19 2019, @03:36PM (1 child)

          by NateMich (6662) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @03:36PM (#803492)

          Make sure the candles are pure bees wax so they'll be carbon neutral! :-)

          But what about the poor bees?

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by sjames on Monday February 18 2019, @07:26PM

      by sjames (2882) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:26PM (#803115) Journal

      Emit vastly more carbon regulating an extremely minor contributor than streaming ever could.

      Consider all those computers tracking all that streaming, all those forms filled out in triplicate claiming educational exemptions. All those investigators auditing the educational claims and all the paperwork that generates. Even if everyone involved telecommutes, they'll emit more carbon than streaming audio does. Then someone (probably a few someones) will have to go to court in person with all that driving internal combustion vehicles.

      Even banks eventually figured out that burning $1000 in overtime looking for the missing dime is a losing proposition.

      On the bright side, we will all get to laugh at the wild claims of detector vans that can not only sniff out a HiFi stereo but determine that it is streaming audio rather than playing a CD.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:30PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:30PM (#803118)

      My way...
      1) Call my entertainment manager on my cell phone to book a private concert in Bermuda and hire support staff
      2) Take my private jet to Bermuda, the support staff and bands are flown in on separate flights
      3) Start a large bonfire
      4) Enjoy my playlist
      HRC

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:38PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:38PM (#803122)
        Please specify what the said bonfire consists of. A necessary question when dealing with your family ;-)
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:50PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:50PM (#803134)

          iPhones, basement servers, and hard drives

          • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday February 18 2019, @09:18PM

            by Gaaark (41) on Monday February 18 2019, @09:18PM (#803189) Journal

            and lots of cloths.

            --
            --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:01PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:01PM (#803207)

          Don't worry, they'll light it up, but they won't inhale.

          Might be few dead bodies in there, but that's just part of doing business.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @11:52PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @11:52PM (#803236)

      Another four step solution:
      1. step to the left
      2. step to the right
      3. step forward
      4. pirouette

    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:20AM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:20AM (#803261) Journal

      Ah, so now we'll burn the house down buried in "educational material".

      Use the tax revenue to fight climate change by funding educational materials that raise awareness about the problem

      :-) Which will be streamed in 4K. I like that. Reminds me of that thing that said *Why do we kill people who kill people to prove that killing people is wrong?*

      --
      La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Snotnose on Monday February 18 2019, @07:01PM (3 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:01PM (#803091)

    When I listen to a CD I play it through an amp and speakers. The same amp and speakers I use when I stream music. The CD itself has been ripped and is on a NAS, which is always on. Just like the router I stream music through, always on.

    So explain to me how I save energy one way or the other.

    --
    Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
    • (Score: 3, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @07:23PM

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @07:23PM (#803112) Homepage Journal

      You save energy by not running a CD player as well as your tuner/amp/eq/speakers/etc...

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:41PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:41PM (#803126)

      And spotify saves energy by going bankrupt and powering down their huge-carbon-footprint datacenters.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday February 18 2019, @07:49PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:49PM (#803133)

      Story (or at least the summary) is an exercise in oversimplification.

      What's the lifetime energy impact of a CD that's manufactured, shipped, sold at retail, eventually landfilled? Remember, this is for all CDs manufactured, not just those that are listened to. Ditto for manufacture, use and disposal of CD players, including the ones that never or rarely get used. That (including the purchaser's trips to the CD shop both to buy and to browse, and the shipping costs for online shoppers) is the energy footprint that needs to be compared to the energy required to stream a song through the network over and over.

      Pirates are of course greener since they stream once on the global network, then play locally.

      After the signal is converted to analog from whatever source, how that's played via earbuds, bookshelf speakers, or stadium PA systems shouldn't enter into a comparison of streaming vs recorded music.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by urza9814 on Monday February 18 2019, @07:04PM (3 children)

    by urza9814 (3954) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:04PM (#803095) Journal

    Can't tell if this is among the dumbest things I've ever read, or a brilliant ploy to resurrect the dying concept of local music collections to "save the planet".

    Wonder what the carbon cost of a torrent is...although you'd probably have to chart that in multiple dimensions -- share ratio vs number of plays vs file size -- to find the lines (or plane?) where it breaks even...

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:10PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @07:10PM (#803099)

      I keep my local collection for one reason only.

      Streaming is *massively* more convenient. Like it is not even close.

      However, streaming is a form of DRM. It can just 'poof' go away. I do not like that at all. Hence my large pile of local that *I* control.

      • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Tuesday February 19 2019, @02:57PM

        by urza9814 (3954) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @02:57PM (#803472) Journal

        Yeah, personally I get most of my new music from Amazon on Bandcamp. Preferably Bandcamp, as they're both better quality files and give a better cut to the artist. I then keep it on an SD card in my phone and I have easy access anywhere I could want it....which is a large part of why I refuse to purchase any phone without an SD card slot and a headphone jack :)

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by pipedwho on Monday February 18 2019, @10:16PM

      by pipedwho (2032) on Monday February 18 2019, @10:16PM (#803213)

      With any torrent, assuming everyone that wants a copy runs to completion, the number of downloads equals the number of uploads. So the carbon cost of a torrent is equivalent to each client downloading the file exactly once. (Ignoring a small percent of lost packets, users aborting the download half way and starting again, etc).

      But, as the sibling poster mentioned, 'local' copies are not just to save energy, but to allow perpetual access if the streaming site 'goes offline', or decides to take _you_ offline with some DRM revocation or just by locking you out. No network, no access, no streaming music. Versus no network, no access, still happily playing and backing up my music collection.

      I find I listen to the same songs a lot more than once, and it makes sense to buy an album (either physical or online) and keep it around than pay in-perpetuity to listen to the material.

  • (Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Monday February 18 2019, @07:36PM (10 children)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:36PM (#803120)

    Since we are talking about "streaming". Let us talk about the power consumed by the servers storing all the data, the power used by all the telecommunications equipments between you and them, and the power consumed by the offices used by the companies that create and maintain these services. Remember most streaming is DRMed and therefore its very use is tethered to the existence of one or more companies.

    Now, let us compare this to the total power needed to obtain material for, assemble, create content for, package, ship, and sell, your CD or vinyl record. Once a CD/record is pressed it is not tethered to the company, so only a part of the power consumed here counts.

    How much power is used by record execs banging hookers and snorting coke anyway? :P

    "Solution: Use a smartphone or laptop" which is great if you already have those and a need to have them already that justifies the expenditure and power/resources used to create them. (Is this just another cell phone advertisement?)

    Real solution: Don't listen to music. Usage: 0 kilowatt hours. Bonus points that you deny some record exec some of their hookers and coke.

    • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Monday February 18 2019, @07:40PM (4 children)

      by acid andy (1683) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:40PM (#803124) Homepage Journal

      How many kilowatts does humming a tune to yourself eat up? What about whistling? These are important questions.

      --
      If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @07:52PM (3 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @07:52PM (#803136) Homepage Journal

        Irrelevant in my case. I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. I can learn to play anything on a guitar with enough practice but Row Row Row Your Boat is beyond my abilities if vocal cords are the desired instrument.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 3, Touché) by RamiK on Monday February 18 2019, @09:38PM (1 child)

          by RamiK (1813) on Monday February 18 2019, @09:38PM (#803196)

          I can learn to play anything on a guitar with enough practice

          K get back to us when you're done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fomb4YZC8x8 [youtube.com]

          --
          compiling...
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:50AM

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:50AM (#803283) Homepage Journal

            Pass. Can and want to are different qualifiers. I've taught myself enough to play a few songs over the years but as soon as I learn the song well that I wanted to learn, I stop playing. I don't want to actually do it, I just want to know that I could if I wanted to.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by pipedwho on Monday February 18 2019, @10:21PM

          by pipedwho (2032) on Monday February 18 2019, @10:21PM (#803215)

          Don't worry, I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket either. But, I can sing pitch perfectly without autotune anything in my 2 octave vocal range. Although, playing the guitar at the same time is much harder if either the vocals or guitar parts are really complicated.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday February 18 2019, @07:52PM (3 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday February 18 2019, @07:52PM (#803135)

      Hookers, dealers, mules and growers all have to make a living, too... put them out of their present line of work and they'll become a burden on society's welfare systems. /s

      Another thing that has to be taken into account on the physical media side of the spreadsheet is all the overproduced product, those bins full of Foreigner 4 LPs, the landfill full of Atari ET games...

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 18 2019, @07:55PM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 18 2019, @07:55PM (#803139) Homepage Journal

        Shit, I remember playing that. It kinda sucked compared to Adventure but at least you didn't get a blister in the palm of your hand like with Track and Field.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 3, Touché) by krishnoid on Monday February 18 2019, @08:55PM (1 child)

        by krishnoid (1156) on Monday February 18 2019, @08:55PM (#803174)

        Hookers, dealers, mules and growers all have to make a living, too... put them out of their present line of work and they'll become a burden on society's welfare systems. /s

        Probably by joining pharmaceutical companies. Wait, maybe you were *talking* about the pharmaceutical companies?

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday February 19 2019, @03:15AM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @03:15AM (#803320)

          Did you catch the story about the pharma rep doing lap dances to move opioids? Should be able to Google search for it, it wasn't a The Onion story.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:49PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:49PM (#803168)

      Let us talk about the power consumed by the servers storing all the data, the power used by all the telecommunications equipments between you and them, and the power consumed by the offices used by the companies that create and maintain these services.

      This story is about streaming music, not ad servicing companies and companies that track you and aggregate untold amounts of data about you that is sold to the ad servicing companies. ;-)

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Monday February 18 2019, @08:13PM (8 children)

    by fyngyrz (6567) on Monday February 18 2019, @08:13PM (#803147) Journal

    Give up music on a serious music system? Oh hell no.

    However: let's just turn out all the lights. ALL of them. You want light? Skylights, windows, or go outdoors. Just think of the carbon footprint reduction!!!

    And hey... no more heating, either. Wear warm clothes when necessary, all you special butterflies. Except for a box the reverse of a refrigerator where you can keep your water unmelted. No, heck with that, melt it in your mouth! HUGE savings! And of course, no AC. Anywhere. No such thing as "too hot." Get a white robe. Oh yeah, NOW we're saving!

    Monitors and phone displays must all be reflective LCD. They'll be slow, of course, so no more action games or animation, but hey, the SAVINGS! And... yeah, TV's too. Motion blur FTW.

    Cows gotta go too. They fart too much.

    Clearly, we're wallowing in unnecessary luxury. How else can I help? Discuss and Implement*.

    * You go first. I'll observe.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Monday February 18 2019, @09:04PM (7 children)

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Monday February 18 2019, @09:04PM (#803180) Journal
      • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Monday February 18 2019, @09:26PM (6 children)

        by fyngyrz (6567) on Monday February 18 2019, @09:26PM (#803192) Journal

        Nope. That's just profligate waste. No lights. Anywhere.* Unless it's carbon-neutral bioluminescence.

        * Still you first.

        --
        The pessimist: the glass is half full
         The optimist: the glass is half empty
         The engineer: the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
        The scientist: the glass is full; 50% water and 50% air.

        • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:05PM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:05PM (#803208)


          The pessimist: the glass is half full
            The optimist: the glass is half empty
            The engineer: the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
          The scientist: the glass is full; 50% water and 50% air.

          The cynic: I have the wrong size glass.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:30PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:30PM (#803219)

            The Buddhist: There is no glass.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:31AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:31AM (#803269)

              The Surrealist: How many glasses does it take to change a light bulb?

              • (Score: 3, Funny) by fyngyrz on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:44AM

                by fyngyrz (6567) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:44AM (#803276) Journal

                How many glasses does it take to change a light bulb?

                Depends on:

                • How you stack the glasses
                • How tall you are
                • How high up the lightbulb is
                • If OSHA is around

                ...and it's worth checking your insurance before trying. Just saying.

                --
                Dear life: When I said "This can't get any worse",
                it wasn't a freaking challenge

            • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:31AM

              by fyngyrz (6567) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:31AM (#803270) Journal

              will add :)

          • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:17AM

            by fyngyrz (6567) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:17AM (#803258) Journal

            will add, slightly modified :)

  • (Score: 2) by nobu_the_bard on Monday February 18 2019, @08:25PM (1 child)

    by nobu_the_bard (6373) on Monday February 18 2019, @08:25PM (#803150)

    Redefine the currency in use to be worthless and invent a new currency to use for everything else. Then it'll be free to run!

    I worked very hard on this solution.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:51PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:51PM (#803169)

      Bitcoin isn't worthless yet, but we're waiting.

  • (Score: 4, Funny) by Apparition on Monday February 18 2019, @08:35PM (4 children)

    by Apparition (6835) on Monday February 18 2019, @08:35PM (#803157) Journal

    A couple of years ago, the local electric company began including a chart with the bill each month of how much power my family used in comparison to the neighbors. Our power usage was significantly higher than the neighbors'. Why, I don't know, nor do I care. I took it as a challenge. Each month I try to outdo our previous month's power usage.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:40PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @08:40PM (#803162)

      It is because they showma average rather than the entire distribution. If a few "neighbors" have empty houses (for sale, on vacation, etc) that drags down the mean a ton. So pretty much everyone thinks they are using more than everyone else...

      • (Score: 2) by Apparition on Monday February 18 2019, @09:04PM

        by Apparition (6835) on Monday February 18 2019, @09:04PM (#803181) Journal

        That's pretty much what I figured. I mean, I do have at least one computer on 24/7 and my parents leave their television on 20 hours a day, but it can't be that much higher than the average portrayed. It's just a shame tactic to get people to kowtow to the environmentalists. I doubt they expected people like me to see it as a challenge. 😛

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @11:03PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @11:03PM (#803227)

      You try to use more electricity month on month? Wow.

      Oh I read your later post. You are a stupid kid that lives with your parents and doesn't pay the bills. Really cool bro!

      In your later post you state that your parents have a TV on for 20 hours a day and you run a computer (I assume desktop) 24/7, yet your idiot brain can't fathom why you use more electricity than your neighbors.

      I fear for the future of the human race if you are representative of the next generation. Hopefully your idiocy won't rub off on my kid.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Apparition on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:02AM

        by Apparition (6835) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @12:02AM (#803247) Journal

        Wrong. I was born in the '70s and live with my elderly parents because one of my parents has been physically disabled for the past twenty-odd years and needs help getting around the house and I'm the only family around as my sister and her family live several states away. Nice try though.

  • (Score: 2) by Hartree on Monday February 18 2019, @08:40PM (3 children)

    by Hartree (195) on Monday February 18 2019, @08:40PM (#803161)

    Yet another post about how your $presumed_innocent_activity is killing the planet, exploiting children and upsetting the little old lady down the street.

    To buy off your guilt, you just have to donate/conform_to_our_plan/think_right_thoughts/vote_the_proper_way.

    (We are equal opportunity. We offer left, right, faith based, and atheistic versions. You can choose your best fit to make you feel the most helplessly responsible.)

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:26PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:26PM (#803216)

      Meanwhile NASA is preventing people from reading their own literature supporting that global cooling is on the way:
      https://science.nasa.gov/earth-science/big-questions/what-are-the-primary-causes-of-the-earth-system-variability/ [nasa.gov]

      The Sun is the primary forcing of Earth’s climate system. Sunlight warms our world. Sunlight drives atmospheric and oceanic circulation patterns. Sunlight powers the process of photosynthesis that plants need to grow. Sunlight causes convection which carries warmth and water vapor up into the sky where clouds form and bring rain. In short, the Sun drives almost every aspect of our world’s climate system and makes possible life as we know it.

      Earth’s orbit around and orientation toward the Sun change over spans of many thousands of years. In turn, these changing “orbital mechanics” force climate to change because they change where and how much sunlight reaches Earth. (Please see for more details.) Thus, changing Earth’s exposure to sunlight forces climate to change. According to scientists’ models of Earth’s orbit and orientation toward the Sun indicate that our world should be just beginning to enter a new period of cooling — perhaps the next ice age.

      https://s3.amazonaws.com/jo.nova/debunk/us/nasa/nasa-climate-forcings-2010.gif [amazonaws.com]

      Here is someone quoted the page before it was hidden: https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/12/climate_change_its_the_sun_stu.html [americanthinker.com]

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:43PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @10:43PM (#803222)

        Because, idiots read that and think that it supports the denier community. When in reality, it has nothing to do with 'but the earth is cooling!! nasa said so!!'.

        As we expect the planet to enter a minor cooling phase, we see it warming up to a degree an order of magnitude greater than the estimated cooling effect. The responses to the Nasa quote are equivalent to saying "jeez it's hot in this burning house, but since it's snowing outside let's just sit around and not bother calling the fire department".

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @11:02PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 18 2019, @11:02PM (#803226)

          It doesn't say "minor cooling phase", it says "perhaps the next ice age".

  • (Score: 2) by Bot on Monday February 18 2019, @11:55PM

    by Bot (3902) on Monday February 18 2019, @11:55PM (#803238) Journal

    [laughs in hand crank gramophone]

    --
    Account abandoned.
  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 19 2019, @01:20AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 19 2019, @01:20AM (#803297)

    ) I have vinyl records going back to the 1950s and CDs going back to the 1990s. The environmental impact of anything that durable works out to approximately bupkis, unless it's made of plutonium.

    Articles keep claiming that CDs will deteriorate, but I've never had one die unless it physically broke. Vinyl records you have to be a little careful with not to damage, and cassettes are the least durable. The most common failure seems to be the glue that holds the little felt pad under the player's read head. Still, I have many cassettes from the 80s that still work well.

    It's true that the world's data centers consume a lot of energy, but it's not true that there is anything particularly bad, energy-wise, about music streaming. Music just isn't that big. A typical music file is on the order of 5MB, easily checked by looking at any mp3 (or whatever) that you might have around. This is approximately the same as a bloated, script-laden web page or one video ad. Since it takes longer to listen to music than look at a web page, music streaming is actually one of the lower-intensity uses of the internet today.

    Meanwhile, playing a CD or vinyl record requires spinning it with an electric motor. Not a significant use of energy to be sure, but neither is downloading 5MB of data. I don't really know which is more energy, but I do know that neither is very much.

    The article's claims are either made up, or some sort of ridiculous apples-oranges comparison. They didn't bother to explain where the numbers come from, so this is probably some of those 72% of statistics that are made up on the spot. Just more left-wing lies.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by mth on Tuesday February 19 2019, @02:14AM (1 child)

    by mth (2848) on Tuesday February 19 2019, @02:14AM (#803308) Homepage

    streaming an album over the internet more than 27 times will likely use more energy than it takes to produce and manufacture a CD

    I don't know it is was just left out of the summary or also out of the calculation, but transport and storage for physical media could be significant. Albums don't teleport from the factory to people's homes, they go through one or more distributors, who have to keep inventory. Probably this is less demanding than a server room, but still they would need some climate control to avoid problems with humidity. And most end users aren't going to be living next door to the factory, although if transport batches are large enough, it can be relatively efficient (never underestimate the bandwidth of a truck full of tapes).

    Also, 27 times is quite a lot. There are certainly a few albums that I've played more than that, but probably more that I haven't played that often. Over time, the average play count will go up, but at the same time data centers and networking become more efficient while a larger portion of energy will come from renewable sources. So the environmental impact of streaming is likely to drop faster than the play count rises, making the trade-off worse for physical media.

    • (Score: 2) by etherscythe on Thursday February 21 2019, @12:05AM

      by etherscythe (937) on Thursday February 21 2019, @12:05AM (#804305) Journal

      Consider, too: that CD being played isn't free energy, nor a perpetual motion machine. The motor spinning that plastic up is probably a lot more wasteful than the motor spinning the high-capacity hard drive in the datacenter, divided among all the users pulling data from it. Best efficiency is solid-state storage, but that's a significant $/GB overall cost difference; energy costing what it does, you'd take years just to break even on the hardware. Some people have critical illnesses to pay for with that money, right now.

      --
      "Fake News: anything reported outside of my own personally chosen echo chamber"
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