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posted by Fnord666 on Friday February 22 2019, @01:23PM   Printer-friendly
from the disco-is-back dept.

Methanol—a colorless liquid that can be made from agricultural waste—has long been touted as a green alternative to fossil fuels. But it’s toxic and only has half the energy as the same volume of gasoline. Now, researchers report they’ve created a potentially cheap way to use sunlight to convert methanol to ethanol, a more popular alternative fuel that’s less harmful and carries more energy.

The new report is “great work” says Zhongmin Liu, a chemist at the Dalian Institute of Chemical Physics in China who was not involved with the research. If the process can be optimized and scaled up, he says, “It has the potential to change the world.”

The notion of converting methanol to ethanol isn’t new. Companies already have a trio of chemical processes that do so. But these require adding heat, pressure, and toxic additives, such as carbon monoxide. Companies can also make ethanol directly by fermenting corn kernels or sugarcane. But growing those crops requires precious farmland that could otherwise grow food. Researchers and companies have also come up with ways to convert agricultural wastes into ethanol. So far, however, these have proved too costly to be competitive.


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  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @01:25PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @01:25PM (#805008)

    So this means our cars will soon be Ethanol-fueled?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @02:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @02:29PM (#805037)

      For $1 an hour to push it from behind with his bird scooter rental.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @03:01PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @03:01PM (#805051)

      They already are. Most gas has 10% of ethanol in it unless you want to pay extra.

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday February 22 2019, @07:30PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday February 22 2019, @07:30PM (#805262) Journal

      So this means our cars will soon be Ethanol-fueled?

      It'll manage to not blindly smash into walls, but only about once a month?

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @02:50PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @02:50PM (#805045)

    from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol [wikipedia.org]

    Methanol acquired the name wood alcohol because it was once produced chiefly by the destructive distillation of wood.

    from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_fuel [wikipedia.org]

    Pure methanol is required by rule to be used in Champcars, Monster Trucks, USAC sprint cars (as well as midgets, modifieds, etc.), and other dirt track series, such as World of Outlaws, and Motorcycle Speedway, mainly because, in the event of an accident, methanol does not produce an opaque cloud of smoke. Since the late 1940s, Methanol is also used as the primary fuel ingredient in the powerplants for radio control, control line and free flight model aircraft (see below), cars and trucks; such engines use a platinum filament glow plug that ignites the methanol vapor through a catalytic reaction. Drag racers, mud racers, and heavily modified tractor pullers also use methanol as the primary fuel source. Methanol is required with a supercharged engine in a Top Alcohol Dragster and, until the end of the 2006 season, all vehicles in the Indianapolis 500 had to run on methanol. As a fuel for mud racers, methanol mixed with gasoline and nitrous oxide produces more power than gasoline and nitrous oxide alone.

    Beginning in 1965, pure methanol was used widespread in USAC Indy car competition, which at the time included the Indianapolis 500.

    Safety was the predominant influence for the adoption of menthanol fuel in the United States open-wheel racing categories. Unlike petroleum fires, methanol fires can be extinguished with plain water. A methanol-based fire burns invisibly, unlike gasoline, which burns with a visible flame. If a fire occurs on the track, there is no flame or smoke to obstruct the view of fast approaching drivers, but this can also delay visual detection of the fire and the initiation of fire suppression. A seven-car crash on the second lap of the 1964 Indianapolis 500 resulted in USAC's decision to encourage, and later mandate, the use of methanol. Eddie Sachs and Dave MacDonald died in the crash when their gasoline-fueled cars exploded. The gasoline-triggered fire created a dangerous cloud of thick black smoke that completely blocked the view of the track for oncoming cars. Johnny Rutherford, one of the other drivers involved, drove a methanol-fueled car, which also leaked following the crash. While this car burned from the impact of the first fireball, it formed a much smaller inferno than the gasoline cars, and one that burned invisibly. That testimony, and pressure from The Indianapolis Star writer George Moore, led to the switch to alcohol fuel in 1965.

    Methanol was used by the CART circuit during its entire campaign (1979–2007). It is also used by many-short track organizations, especially midget, sprint cars and speedway bikes. Pure methanol was used by the IRL from 1996-2006.

    In 2006, in partnership with the ethanol industry, the IRL used a mixture of 10% ethanol and 90% methanol as its fuel. Starting in 2007, the IRL switched to "pure" ethanol, E100.[14]

    Methanol fuel is also used extensively in drag racing, primarily in the Top Alcohol category, while between 10% and 20% methanol may be used in Top Fuel classes in addition to Nitromethane.

    Formula One racing continues to use gasoline as its fuel, but in prewar grand prix racing methanol was often used in the fuel.

    Methanol is also used in Monster Truck racing.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday February 22 2019, @07:37PM

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday February 22 2019, @07:37PM (#805267) Journal

      This is not race car fuel.

      TFA said GREEN fuel. Isn't race car fuel transparent?

      --
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  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday February 22 2019, @04:36PM (1 child)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday February 22 2019, @04:36PM (#805117) Journal

    The obvious application for this is to build solar power plants, preferably concentrating solar (mirrors and salt tank) and then construct some sort of value-adding facility right next to it to take advantage of the power. Desalinization, or this methanol to ethanol conversion plant, maybe even some sort of clean industrial incinerator.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Saturday February 23 2019, @02:08PM

      by VLM (445) on Saturday February 23 2019, @02:08PM (#805566)

      In the long term maybe.

      In the medium term its another pathway in the methanol economy.

      Most methanol comes from extensive processing of natgas today, although in theory its an option for coal to liquid via making "towne gas" as an intermediary.

      methanol is a horrible general public joe6pack fuel, very toxic, etc. Cheap conversion to ethanol makes it useful, or more useful, as a general public fuel.

      You can do a lot of cool chemical plant stuff with methanol as a feedstock; its also a pretty good liquid fuel for electrical fuel cells.

      We've "always" had a cheap and easy methanol to diesel-alike, its some ester I forget, but diesel cars not so cool outside Europe (and especially post-VW psuedo-scandal)

      So... "MeOH to EtOH cheap and easy" is kinda a plug to connect the current and proposed methanol economy to very realistic general public liq fuel for vehicles and whatever.

      We have plenty of interesting alternative energy transports for many decades; we've burned up the simple ones and now its a puzzler to implement the trickier ones in a form that doesn't involve moron end users killing an entire city block via misuse.

      Your cogeneration plant proposal is realistic and likely, although in summary the more popular use will be as an expensive stack at a refinery that is one of the last processing steps for general purpose liq fuel production. Essentially your mass produced E15 mogas will "come from natgas" instead of "come from corn farmers". How this will impact the political landscape WRT E15 only existing as a mandated product BECAUSE of corn farmers who are soon to be cut out of the loop is interesting to consider.

      I just looooove researching investing in the energy sector, its a cool and interesting corner of capitalist technology, darn near more fun than stuff closely related to EE/CS which is too much like work. F google I'm sick enough of their bullshit they cause at work; energy sector is relaxing and invigorating to invest in as a spare time hobby.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by bzipitidoo on Friday February 22 2019, @04:38PM

    by bzipitidoo (4388) on Friday February 22 2019, @04:38PM (#805120) Journal

    I've been banking on the electric car replacing the gasoline powered car. But the combustion engine could get a new lease on life with an economical way to create fuel from biomass.

    From personal experience, the all electric car is vastly superior, with the one big exception of the limited range and/or long recharge times. They're quieter, smoother, more reliable, and much lower maintenance. Oh, and more economical.

    I find the old habits of gasoline car ownership still alive. It's been almost a reflex to take mental notes of gas station prices as I commute, so I know who has the best deal on gas today. Find myself still thinking about routine maintenance that's no longer applicable, such as the oil change, and while at it, the radiator and transmission fluid, and maybe the air filter. With the electric, all that just goes away. There's still the power steering and A/C, but those are not belt driven, and so are lower maintenance. Possibly the top source of leakage in an A/C system is the seal on the shaft of the compressor, which has to be present so that the compressor can be driven by belt. In an all-electric, the A/C system has an internal electric motor, no more shaft with high maintenance, leak prone seals.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @04:59PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @04:59PM (#805142)

    Butanol has even higher energy density than ethanol,
    and it also doesn't suffer the historical stigma of a speak-easy on every street the way ethanol does.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @05:49PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @05:49PM (#805183)

      True, but the majority of butanol used right now comes from the same source as gasoline or diesel.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @06:19PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @06:19PM (#805201)

        True, but the majority of butanol used right now comes from the same source as gasoline or diesel.

        Not until one of my neighbours buys a butanol powered car it doesn't!

    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Saturday February 23 2019, @02:16PM

      by VLM (445) on Saturday February 23 2019, @02:16PM (#805569)

      Its toxic and smelly so the existing infrastructure of open tanks and pumping hoses has to go away into something more like CNG/propane airtight stuff.

      Given the toxicity I would not want to breathe anywhere near the exhaust of vehicles without working cat convs.

      Using yuckier fuels means we're going back to the good old days of leaded gasoline and "that stuff gonna rot yer brainz". Eco-friendly fuel is a luxury good of a rich petroleum based civilization; not a poor post-petroleum civ. We're going back to putting stuff in the tank that kills people, not eco unicorn glitter that saves the earth.

  • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday February 22 2019, @05:08PM (5 children)

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday February 22 2019, @05:08PM (#805151) Homepage Journal

    Not at toxic as Carbon Dioxide is.

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by HiThere on Friday February 22 2019, @05:33PM (4 children)

      by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Friday February 22 2019, @05:33PM (#805171) Journal

      Sorry, but Methane is worse than Carbon Dioxide. And it degrades over around a decade into Carbon Dioxide. Methanol is basically Methane, but it degrades much more rapidly.

      That's as a atmospheric pollutant. As a "have a swig of this" ingredient, it's the thing that caused cheap whiskey to make people blind, where Carbon Dioxide is what makes the bubbles in soda drinks.

      --
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      • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday February 22 2019, @07:32PM (3 children)

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday February 22 2019, @07:32PM (#805264) Journal

        Methane: There's a reason we flare that stuff off....

        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday February 22 2019, @07:39PM (2 children)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday February 22 2019, @07:39PM (#805268) Journal

          If someone says it's toxic, the magical response to that is to reply that it is All Natural.

          --
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          • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday February 22 2019, @08:02PM (1 child)

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday February 22 2019, @08:02PM (#805288) Journal

            If someone says it's toxic, the magical response to that is to reply that it is All Natural.

            Yep, just like cyanide!

            • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday February 22 2019, @08:07PM

              by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday February 22 2019, @08:07PM (#805291) Journal

              You only give them cyanide if they say: "I learned to write SQL by reading SQL Antipatterns!"

              --
              To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
  • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday February 22 2019, @05:11PM (1 child)

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday February 22 2019, @05:11PM (#805152) Homepage Journal

    The energy density of the liquid phase is all that really concerns economists, bean counters as well as Harry The Homeowner.

    Recall that smaller carbon chains have proportionally more hydrogens, and therefore my potential chemical energy per molecule.

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @07:19PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @07:19PM (#805252)

      isn't methanol half-assed oxidized methan?
      a good logo would represent methan as a whole apple whilst methanol would be a apple with a bite taken out of it ...
      anyways, the "good" thing about having half oxidized methan is that it "falls together", that is that methan, being a gas turns liquid by adding one oxygen?
      'tis a curious thing in the universe: having a bunch of hyrogen and combining it either with carbon, which when pure is a solid brick, or oxygen, which when pure is a gas goes in reverse:
      adding the "solid" carbon to the hydrogen makes a gas (until you make longer chains) but adding oxygen to hydrogen turns the whole combo into a liquid.
      this whole oxygen thingy is a good "compressor" eh?

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @05:13PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 22 2019, @05:13PM (#805156)

    There are people who will pay $100/lb for coffee beans that have been pooped out by weasels [wikipedia.org]. Now we're going to have people spending $100/liter on whiskey made from converted cow farts.

    • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday February 23 2019, @09:57AM

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Saturday February 23 2019, @09:57AM (#805521) Journal

      "Why is this whiskey so expensive?"
      "It's from a really old fart."

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
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