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posted by chromas on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:33AM   Printer-friendly

USB 3.2 Gen 2×2 isn't even my final form:

Fulfilling its 2017 promise to make Thunderbolt 3 royalty-free, Intel has given the specification for its high-speed interconnect to the USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF), the industry group that develops the USB specification. The USB-IF has taken the spec and will use it to form the basis of USB4, the next iteration of USB following USB 3.2.

Thunderbolt 3 not only doubles the bandwidth of USB 3.2 Gen 2×2, going from 20Gb/s to 40Gb/s, it also enables the use of multiple data and display protocols simultaneously. We would expect the USB4 specification to be essentially a superset of the Thunderbolt 3 and USB 3.2 specifications, thus incorporating both the traditional USB family of protocols (up to and including the USB 3.2 Gen 2×2) and the Thunderbolt 3 protocol in a single document. Down the line, this should translate into USB4 controllers that support the whole range of speeds.

Lost? Frightened? Confused? Good!

Also at AnandTech, The Verge, and Engadget.


Original Submission

Related Stories

USB 3.2 is Going to Make the Current USB Branding Even Worse 35 comments

People already get the names wrong, so the USB group has doubled down on bad naming.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/02/usb-3-2-is-going-to-make-the-current-usb-branding-even-worse/

USB 3.0 was straightforward enough. A USB 3.0 connection ran at 5Gb/s, and slower connections were USB 2 or even USB 1.1. The new 5Gb/s data rate was branded "SuperSpeed USB," following USB 2's 480Mb/s "High Speed" and USB 1.1's 12Mb/s "Full Speed."

But then USB 3.1 came along and muddied the waters. Its big new feature was doubling the data rate to 10Gb/s. The logical thing would have been to identify existing 5Gb/s devices as "USB 3.0" and new 10Gb/s devices as "USB 3.1." But that's not what the USB-IF did. For reasons that remain hard to understand, the decision was made to retroactively rebrand USB 3.0: 5Gb/s 3.0 connections became "USB 3.1 Gen 1," with the 10Gb/s connections being "USB 3.1 Gen 2." The consumer branding is "SuperSpeed USB 10Gbps."

What this branding meant is that many manufacturers say that a device supports "USB 3.1" even if it's only a "USB 3.1 Gen 1" device running at 5Gb/s. Meanwhile, other manufacturers do the sensible thing: they use "USB 3.0" to denote 5Gb/s devices and reserve "USB 3.1" for 10Gb/s parts.

USB 3.2 doubles down on this confusion. 5Gb/s devices are now "USB 3.2 Gen 1." 10Gb/s devices become "USB 3.2 Gen 2." And 20Gb/s devices will be... "USB 3.2 Gen 2×2." Because they work by running two 10Gb/s connections along different pairs of wires simultaneously, and it's just obvious from arithmetic that you'd number the generations "1, 2, 2×2." Perhaps they're named for powers of two, starting with zero? The consumer branding is a more reasonable "SuperSpeed USB 20Gbps."

-- submitted from IRC


Original Submission

DisplayPort Alt Mode Updated for USB 4, Allows Uncompressed 8K @ 60 Hz HDR Video Over a USB-C Cable 11 comments

DisplayPort Alt Mode 2.0 Spec Released: Defining Alt Mode for USB4

As the tech industry gears up for the launch of the new USB4 standard, a few more parts first need to fall into place. Along with the core specification itself, there is the matter of alternate modes, which add further functionality to USB Type-C host ports by allowing the data pins to be used to carry other types of signals. Keeping pace with the updates to USB4, some of the alt modes are being updated as well, and this process is starting with the granddaddy of them all: DisplayPort Alt Mode.

The very first USB-C alt mode, DisplayPort Alt Mode was introduced in 2014. By remapping the USB-C high speed data pins from USB data to DisplayPort data, it became possible to use a USB-C port as a DisplayPort video output, and in some cases even mix the two to get both USB 3.x signaling and DisplayPort signaling over the same cable. As a result of DisplayPort Alt Mode's release, the number of devices with video output has exploded, and in laptops especially, this has become the preferred mode for driving video outputs when a laptop doesn't include a dedicated HDMI port.

If you're willing to accept Display Stream Compression... New DisplayPort spec enables 16K video over USB-C

VESA press release.

Previously: Forget USB 3.2: Thunderbolt 3 Will Become the Basis of USB 4
DisplayPort 2.0 Announced, Triples Bandwidth to ~77.4 Gbps for 8K Displays
Speed-Doubling USB4 is Ready -- Now We Just Have to Wait for Devices


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 4, Funny) by takyon on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:33AM (3 children)

    by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:33AM (#810115) Journal

    USB 5G, and even 6G.

    --
    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:48AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:48AM (#810123)

      We are going 10G.

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @01:31PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @01:31PM (#810230)

        10? mine goes to 11

    • (Score: 2) by driverless on Wednesday March 06 2019, @01:36AM

      by driverless (4770) on Wednesday March 06 2019, @01:36AM (#810530)

      I don't really care about 5G or 6G or 20G or 150TB/s, for anything like that I'll use mSATA/M2/whatever or ethernet and not some serial port on steroids. What I really want in USB is a single connector and the ability to plug A into B and it'll just work. I'd actually go back to 12Mbps USB just to have the ability to plug things in and have them work without having to piss around with drivers and cables and different settings and adapters and converters and hubs and then half the time it still doesn't work.

      In other words, to the USB consortium, concentrate on making what you've already got actually work properly before you start wanking around with USB 3.2.4.1 revision 2 patchlevel 4 with mustand and anchovies.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Apparition on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:38AM (4 children)

    by Apparition (6835) on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:38AM (#810116) Journal

    Basing a whole new USB standard on Thunderbolt 3... What could possibly [soylentnews.org] go [lightbluetouchpaper.org] wrong [thunderclap.io]?

    • (Score: 5, Funny) by aristarchus on Tuesday March 05 2019, @05:18AM (1 child)

      by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday March 05 2019, @05:18AM (#810142) Journal

      I have a bad feeling about this, and I am not even Han Solo!

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @10:40AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @10:40AM (#810199)

        Right. You're Greek Soylo.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @05:42AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @05:42AM (#810145)

      Will this make it easier to jailbreak future iPhones? (When they switch to USB C)

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Tuesday March 05 2019, @07:05AM

      by c0lo (156) on Tuesday March 05 2019, @07:05AM (#810161) Journal

      What could possibly [soylentnews.org] go wrong

      That's not a bug, that's a feature.
      I mean, look, you really like FBI to waste you tax money on Cellebrite instead of buying them cables straight from ebay [soylentnews.org] at Chinese prices?

      (grin)

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
  • (Score: 5, Funny) by Booga1 on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:45AM (4 children)

    by Booga1 (6333) on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:45AM (#810119)

    The new designation will be "USB 4.0 gen 1x40" SuperHyper USB Totally Not Thunderbolt Stop Calling It That Speed.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by Mykl on Tuesday March 05 2019, @05:15AM

      by Mykl (1112) on Tuesday March 05 2019, @05:15AM (#810141)

      Championship Edition

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @06:27AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @06:27AM (#810153)

      Lightning USb External Root

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @08:28AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @08:28AM (#810181)

      Now with added blockchain!

  • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:45AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:45AM (#810120)

    Let's go back to Rs232, at least we know the god damn things can transmit/receive.

    "Universal", they said. Uni-fucking-versal.

    Fuck.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by RandomFactor on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:50AM

    by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:50AM (#810126) Journal

    when Benson Leung [google.com] started testing USB C cables, now we'll have a whole new crop of equipment destroying shortcuts manufacturers can take.

    --
    В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:54AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @03:54AM (#810129)

    Isn't Thunderbolt basically PCI, with all the DMA transfer capabilities to run behind the CPU's back? Is iommu isolation going to be mandatory part of the spec?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @08:36AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @08:36AM (#810187)

      Isn't Thunderbolt basically PCI, with all the DMA transfer capabilities to run behind the CPU's back?

      Yes.

      Is iommu isolation going to be mandatory part of the spec?

      Of course not. The Feds, KGB, Mossad, the mob, every blackhat and neighborhood prankster absolutely requires unfettered plug'n'play access to all your hardware...

      For the uninitiated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMA_attack [wikipedia.org]

  • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday March 05 2019, @05:24AM (1 child)

    by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday March 05 2019, @05:24AM (#810143) Journal

    USB4 is not, and is in no way related to, USB 4.0. Yes,versioning conventions suck, which is always true, but more when they are used to lie through the teeth of tech companies, like Intel, or Motorola, or Samsung, or Peter Thiel. 4g, anyone? Does anyone actually have 4g? Not the 4g that is 4g-lte, which is only 3g, with some fixes. So 40 gps, eh? On "compliant" hardware"? As in "proprietary compliant hardware"! Shit! This is HDMI and Blu-ray all over again! Not a standard! Reject! Will not accept! No Apple machines! Exterminate! Exterminate!! (Well, that degenerated quickly!)

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @08:28AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @08:28AM (#810182)

      "well, that degenerated quickly!"
      being so old, I thought you'd gotten used to yourself by now.

  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @08:31AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 05 2019, @08:31AM (#810185)

    usb 33 1/3
    usb 45
    usb 78

    • (Score: 2) by AndyTheAbsurd on Tuesday March 05 2019, @02:46PM (1 child)

      by AndyTheAbsurd (3958) on Tuesday March 05 2019, @02:46PM (#810257) Journal

      Hey! I got that reference!

      --
      Please note my username before responding. You may have been trolled.
      • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday March 05 2019, @06:51PM

        by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday March 05 2019, @06:51PM (#810362) Journal

        But 78's were not even vinyl! It is where we get the "breakage" fee taken out of artist's royalties, even for vinyl, CDs, and Mp3s.

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