from the Tractors-and-combines-are-just-iphones-on-wheels dept.
Farmers have been getting screwed by a combination of DRM linked to DMCA legalisms that effectively make farmers into criminals if they modify their own farming equipment, forcing them to choose between breaking the law or paying extortionate fees to equipment manufacturers for both hardware and software fixes.
Elizabeth Warren recently announced a new broad policy agenda focused on helping farmers. But buried in it is something everybody here can get behind too - the right to repair:
Consolidation is choking family farms, but there’s a whole lot of other ways in which big business has rigged the rules in their favor and against family farmers. I will fight to change those rules.
For example, many farmers are forced to rely on authorized agents to repair their equipment. Companies have built diagnostic software into the equipment that prevents repairs without a code from an authorized agent. That leads to higher prices and costly delays.
That’s ridiculous. Farmers should be able to repair their own equipment or choose between multiple repair shops. That’s why I strongly support a national right-to-repair law that empowers farmers to repair their equipment without going to an authorized agent. The national right-to-repair law should require manufacturers of farm equipment to make diagnostic tools, manuals, and other repair-related resources available to any individual or business, not just their own dealerships and authorized agents. This will not only allow individuals to fix their own equipment — reducing delays — but it will also create competition among dealers and independent repair shops, bringing down prices overall.
Related Stories
A while back, retired journalist and octogenarian, Chris Biddle, had an excellent interview with author and digital rights activist Cory Doctorow about digital restrictions. They speak in particular about digital restrictions technologies which have been spread within agricultural equipment through the equipment's firmware. Their conversation starts out with mention of the use of network-connected firmware to brick the tractors which were looted from dealership sales lots in Ukraine by the invading Russian army. Cory gives a detailed overview of the issues hidden away by the mainstream press under the feel-good stories about the incident.
But was the bigger picture more worrying? I speak with Cory Doctorow, author, Guardian journalist with a special interest in protecting human rights in this digital age.
He says that whilst 'kill-switches' used to disable the machinery provide a security benefit, it is possible that widely available 'hacking' technology could also be used to disrupt the world's agricultural infrastructure by those with more sinister motives.
All of which feeds into the Right to Repair cases currently going through the US courts. It is also all about who owns the tractor, who owns data, and who owns the rights to the embedded software?
Deere contends that a customer can never fully own connected machinery because it holds exclusive rights to the software coding.
Some US farmers have attempted to unlock the embedded by purchasing illegal firmware –mostly developed by sophisticated hackers based in Ukraine!
The interview is just under 45 minutes.
Previously:
(2022) New York State Passes First Electronics Right-to-Repair Bill
(2022) John Deere Remotely Disables Farm Equipment Stolen by Russians from Ukraine Dealership
(2022) A Fight Over the Right to Repair Cars Turns Ugly
(2021) Apple and John Deere Shareholder Resolutions Demand They Explain Their Bad Repair Policies
(2021) The FTC is Investigating Why McDonald's McFlurry Machines are "Always Broken"
(2020) Europe Wants a 'Right to Repair' Smartphones and Gadgets
(2019)
New Elizabeth Warren Policy Supports "Right to Repair"
(2016) Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 27 2019, @07:12PM (7 children)
Opening the box voids the warranty...
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday March 27 2019, @07:30PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43724348 [bbc.com]
As to farm equipment, the obvious answer would (if it ever passed) be to make sure the software protects against non-OEM parts, and OEM parts need equipment to install that no random shop would invest in for lack of volume.
Is it really JD's fault if their equipment is "too complex" ? That excuse worked for the asshole banks in 2008...
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday March 27 2019, @08:30PM (3 children)
The law can change that. Back in the day, taking your TV to the TV repair shop probably did not void the warranty. Or if it did, that could be the subject of a nice lawsuit. Especially if it were provable that there was a genuine defect in materials or workmanship.
(I just opened a box of twinkies, hoping it did not void the warranty and they are still guaranteed fresh until January 2139)
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday March 27 2019, @09:19PM
In the event of nuclear holocaust, twinkies will outlast cucarachas.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday March 28 2019, @01:08AM (1 child)
they are still guaranteed fresh until January 2139
So, they will outlast Unix?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday March 28 2019, @03:10PM
Unix - yes.
Linux - no.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 27 2019, @10:36PM (1 child)
> Opening the box voids the warranty...
The US has the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which was passed to prevent car manufacturers from cancelling warrantees if an independent mechanic (or owner) worked on the car. But it applies to all products, not just cars. The problem here is that megacorps have perverted the intent of the DMCA to add another layer of lockout beyond the protections of Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. They still can't cancel your warrantee, but they can arrest you...
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Thursday March 28 2019, @02:21AM
They can, and do, make fake warranties. To get warranty coverage, they stipulate that you must take the item to one of their approved shops, which charges inflated prices for labor. And, what do you know, the warranty only covers the cost of parts. Labor is not included. The labor costs more than a new item. Viola! Throwaway economy!
Oh, and, not all parts are covered. One part will have a lifetime warranty, another part will have a 10 year warranty, and still another part will have no warranty at all. LG's so called warranty features all that stuff.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by SpockLogic on Wednesday March 27 2019, @07:33PM (13 children)
Screw John Deere.
Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
(Score: 4, Touché) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday March 27 2019, @07:41PM (3 children)
There, fixed.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday March 27 2019, @08:56PM (2 children)
Absolutely, this is playing to a very specific (and powerful) political group. Farmers are politically organized and have much larger influence than their dwindling population numbers would suggest.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Acabatag on Thursday March 28 2019, @01:49AM (1 child)
I repair agricultural equipment (mostly Planter/Drill Monitors and Scales) for a living. Believe me, many farmers are very skilled and capable. Part of the ethos of farming includes a do-it-yourself mindset. Of course, sometimes they open the box up and just screw things up. But that's not common.
The John Deere monitors that I service are mostly pretty old. Some planter monitors still in use are really old. Like old enough that a 12 row monitor sometimes has about 15 transistors total inside the box.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday March 28 2019, @01:58AM
I think farmers are great people, and it's a shame that "progress" continues to shrink their numbers. Most of the land-owning farming families who still work their own land have plenty of time to get smart about their equipment, and their politics. I think it's a much better lifestyle than working 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year for 30+ years, hoping to win the IRA lottery and retire before you're too crippled by age to do anything.
Making do with old equipment is pretty much a badge of pride around all the farm-country-folk I've ever known. If the new equipment really is better, it will be at least as maintainable by the owner-operators as the old stuff was.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Funny) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday March 27 2019, @07:54PM (8 children)
John Deere screws are proprietary, you'll need to get them from the dealer and purchase the keyed screwdriver for $2857.34, unless you're an authorized service center in which case the keyed screwdriver cost to you is $3.50
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Wednesday March 27 2019, @09:22PM (6 children)
That's very funny, but I'm both laughing and crying. In fact, many screws and bolts are safety critical and to maintain warranty and safety, you _have_ to use expensive factory bolts, and you're frequently not allowed to re-use bolts.
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Wednesday March 27 2019, @10:10PM
Bolt DRM when?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday March 27 2019, @10:53PM (2 children)
There is virtually no screw or bolt that cannot be adequately spec'ed from the McMaster Carr catalog. Part of right to repair should include multiple vendors for common parts.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 28 2019, @04:33AM
> adequately spec'ed from the McMaster Carr catalog.
Good luck finding high strength connecting rod bolts at McM-C...the kind that are installed with a spec on bolt stretch.
More generally, the variety of custom/specialized high performance fasteners is much wider than any supplier could hope to stock. Some might be designed in perversely to force factory replacements, but often the particular properties are required to get the desired performance from the part.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday March 28 2019, @04:56PM
In case I'm yet again being misunderstood, I do all my own repair work, including rebuilding V8 car engines, automatic transmissions, differentials, welding, body work, appliances, tractors and all types of outdoor machines (including large wood chippers), all the way down to component-level electronic repair (tiny stuff). I'm the first guy to substitute parts.
However, right to repair, which I'm 100% in favor of, does NOT mean right to wing it. If you don't follow the written factory procedure, and something breaks, and someone gets hurt, 3 guesses on what happens next?
My Chevy repair manual lists many many bolts which _must_ be replaced with new. From connecting rods and flexplate to crankshaft to differential to body and suspension. It is probably overkill / CYA on the manufacturer's part, but I'm just saying that if you don't have a receipt showing you bought that new factory-spec. bolt, and something bad happens, you might be in a whole world of trouble.
And there's no question it's a slippery-slope: manufacturers already make things too difficult to repair, requiring a ridiculous array of crazy specialized tools. People like me don't want to / can't invest thousands of dollars, so we improvise, and maybe don't do the repair correctly, or unknowingly damage something, or even get hurt. (of course surviving all of the above is the fun of accomplishment, right? :)
American Airlines Flight 191, the crash of which killed some 273 people, was originally blamed on a reused / overstressed bolt. Further investigations revealed incorrect maintenance procedures which caused a sequence of failures which stressed the bolt, but IIRC there was thought at the time that the bolts were re-used, and/or not torqued properly, broke, and horrific disaster ensued. As far as I know, they were never sure about the bolts, but it certainly drew attention to bolt strength, using new every time, etc.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Acabatag on Thursday March 28 2019, @01:52AM (1 child)
At the Tractor Supply in town, they sell the cheapest grade hardware, but also the higher grade bolts, by the pound. Bulk hardware is cool, because you can go in with your project in mind and piece together exactly the bolts/nuts/washers you need, throw it in a bag, and they throw it on the scale at the cash register. It beats the blister packs in the big box stores.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday March 28 2019, @05:10PM
Big box stores (which I hate but that's a very different problem / topic) have lots of bolts in the bulk bins, including grade 8. At least the ones near me do.
And there are some wonderful good old hardware stores not too far that have amazing fastener assortments.
I've only been in a Fastenal store a few times but they're awesome. I need one in my backyard.
And there are more and more stainless steel screws and bolts at all of the above.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 28 2019, @12:34AM
You may think this is a joke, but NCR cash registers 100 years ago were not standard for
precisely the same reason, to keep people from repairing them.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 27 2019, @07:42PM (13 children)
forced taxpayer funding to kill babies in the womb,
abolishing ICE
opening the border
lowering the voting age to 13 (oops...16) or was that survive an abortion, you get to vote
raising taxes
Unequivocal support for Israel's qualitative military edge (but not the US's)
reigning in that pesky 2nd amendment
Indian heritage for all!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 27 2019, @07:55PM
> forced taxpayer funding to kill babies in the womb,
You're just mad your momma wanted to abort you but couldn't afford the bus fare to the clinic so she took it out on you for the first 18 years of your life.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday March 27 2019, @09:59PM (11 children)
Yeah, her policies are generally as shitty as shitty can get but she's on the money on this issue. As much as I'd like the market to take care of it, it hasn't been doing so for too long.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 27 2019, @10:38PM (10 children)
> her policies are generally as shitty as shitty can get
Counterpoint: You are just another shitty fascist and captain america would have punched you in the fucking face.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday March 27 2019, @10:45PM (9 children)
Cap's always been a libertarian. I offer every word he's ever spit into a speech bubble as evidence of this.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 27 2019, @11:30PM (8 children)
You calling yourself a libertarian is as laughable as North Korea calling itself the Democratic People's Republic.
Stever Rogers would have fucking pound your dissembling ass into the ground. And no, he was no libertarian either, he was a New Deal liberal literally drafted by FDR. For fucks sake he was invented by a pair of socialist jews.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday March 28 2019, @01:56AM (7 children)
Read a comic instead of wikipedia. You might know what you're talking about next time.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 28 2019, @02:12AM (6 children)
> Read a comic instead of wikipedia. You might know what you're talking about next time.
Hahaha. You are so weak. So utterly ignorant of american history. I didn't have to read wikipedia to know the history of captain america, true fans got fucking pissed when the movies tried to turn him into a koch-bro a few years back. But it is fucking hilarious your only rebuttal is the comics equivalent of "go google it! nyah!!!" You're such a sniveler. I mean fuck, you don't even know what libertarianism is, you just dunning-kruegerd yourself into a rationalization for having anti-social personality disorder.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday March 28 2019, @02:18AM (2 children)
When you know not whereof you speak, your mouth is best used for chewing. Read a Cap comic. I've got plenty within five feet of me if you want to borrow one.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 28 2019, @12:57PM (1 child)
> "Read a book!"
> "Google it!"
> "Read a comic!"
You've got all those comics within five feet of you but you can't cite a single example because you are just full of shit, all you can do is double down on the classic unaccountable appeal to authority tactic. And that's after claiming that "every word" he's ever said is proof.
You don't even read comics. Yeah, you have comics. But you don't *read* comics, you just look through them searching for affirmation that your social malfunction isn't actually your problem and ignoring anything that says otherwise. Its Everybody else in the world who are the idiots and you, the guy who has admitted that he can't even get laid without paying for it, is the one who truly understands people. You've been missing the actual message and you are so blindsided by the truth that the comics you've turned to for comfort have been criticizing your racism and misogyny the entire time that when someone spells it out for you, all you can do is make simpering denials and accuse them of reading wikipedia.
You should stick with the shit that Frank Miller puts out, he actually believes that mewling little fascists like you are the good guys. His 'heroes' would give you the cuddles you so desperately want.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday March 28 2019, @01:23PM
Citing a single example of Cap standing for liberty would be like pointing out the wetness of a single drop of rain. It's blindingly obvious to anyone but you. Unless, do you think I actually care about your opinion and you're getting me worked up? Doesn't work that way. I argue because it's my hobby and I enjoy it not because what you think matters to me. You'd have to have some actual effect on my life to get me angry.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 28 2019, @02:44AM (2 children)
He literally told you not to google it, just RTFM. Are you stupid or just trolling?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 28 2019, @03:47AM
Yes.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday March 28 2019, @04:45AM
You say it like it's a bad thing.
Why not both?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 27 2019, @08:14PM (2 children)
Hell is frozen and pigs are flying. As they say, a broken clock can be right twice a day: Elizabeth Warren recently announced something that isn't horrible.
Now, about that Green New Deal she supported until asked to vote on it. Hmmm... well, voting "present" is better than voting "yes". She could be worse!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday March 27 2019, @08:56PM
I would hold off on cheering until it becomes an actual law. I'm just a bill. Yes, I'm only a bill. Or maybe not even a bill -- just a pep rallying cry.
If this becomes law, then I'll worry about whether the FAA has certified those pigs as airworthy.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 29 2019, @04:55AM
You realize the Democrats voted "present" as a form of protest, right?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Farkus888 on Wednesday March 27 2019, @09:05PM
A few years ago I decided to always try to fix things. No risk, it is already broke anyway. I have found that the easier repairs were the longer that thing lasted. Glued shut and no parts available is a sure sign it will break. That is why I was reflexively happy to see a parts diagram and order sheet in the box with my new aircat impact wrench. If John Deere didn't make junk they wouldn't worry so much about getting a bigger cut of repairs. How many tractor design improvements could be made with that lawsuit money?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Osamabobama on Wednesday March 27 2019, @09:45PM
This looks like it could set up a big lobbying battle in congress with the Right-to-Repair faction facing off against the copyright and DRM faction. Yesterday, I would have assumed copyright would win out, as it has for decades, but hearing that Senator Warren is behind the right to repair side, I will adjust my expectations accordingly. She seems tenacious and principled (we can debate the quality of her principles later), so she should add some firepower to DRM opponents.
Realistically, though, Big Copyright will likely cede this territory to avoid a battle that will lose much more.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 27 2019, @10:00PM
no secrets.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Wednesday March 27 2019, @11:31PM (4 children)
I don't own, nor will ever own, a John Deere product. But lets look at the stuff I've thrown away because I couldn't replace the battery:
1) Kindle Fire, 2 years old, just out of warranty, battery took 8 hours charge for 1 hour usage before I tossed it.
2) Cellphone. 3 years old, worked fine, battery wouldn't charge.
3) Electric razor, 5-6 years old. Sucks as I'd bought a spare set of blades for it based on my last razor (replaced the blades twice), but the battery died before the blades needed replacing.
This is beyond annoying. What's missing? My PS3 controller. Never had a battery crap out in one of those, but the hardware crapped out so I took one apart. I could replace the battery in 5 minutes. My PS4 controller? Haven't taken one apart yet.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Unixnut on Wednesday March 27 2019, @11:56PM (3 children)
In all your thrown away items, the source of failure was not the complex machinery itself, but the battery.
That tells me that:
(a) battery technology sucks, so we should try to have as few things as possible running on batteries, and
(b) if your thing must have a battery, you should only buy things where the batteries are easily replaceable.
I don't get the obsession with things that don't need to be portable, being battery powered. My shaver has a power cord, I plug it in when I need to use it, and that is it. Never have to worry about batteries. I never felt an urge to shave in the garden or somewhere else not near a power socket either. So why are 95% of modern shavers on the market battery powered?
My biggest headache is having to remember to charge my phone, and laptop. There are people who now have to charge their laptop, their tablet, their smartphone, their watch, their earbuds, and their car, pretty much every single day. Just keeping track of the the "to charge" list is crazy, not to mention for a lot of the above, the ability to just replace the battery is not there. So rather than paying £3.50 or equivalent for a new smartphone battery, you got to pay £400 for a whole new phone and chuck the entire old one out.
When you think about it, it is so wasteful and environmentally unfriendly that I am surprised that (in these hyper-eco-friendly times) nobody has thought about the wasted energy, resources and pollution generated by building these complex devices only to have them fit for the landfill in a year or so, just because the battery has worn out (Even if they actually end up recycled, that requires even more energy to do).
The right to repair should be for all devices, including making core wearing components (like the battery) removable and easily replaceable.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Snotnose on Thursday March 28 2019, @12:20AM (2 children)
You 100% miss my point. In the past few years I've tossed 3 devices not because they were obsolete, but because the battery died. I shave while driving, the battery is both a time saver and vital to my workflow. The phone worked fine until the battery died. The Fire worked just fine until the battery died.
You seem to think I should live my life within 3 feet of an electrical outlet. Do you own a flashlight? Do you keep it within 3 feet of an outlet? How about your kid's Barbie doll? Got a cordless drill?
Not to mention your garage door. Do you really think it's OK to replace the garage door mechanism because your opener's battery died?
How about your I say you're a fucking idiot who's commentary should be ignored.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 28 2019, @02:49AM
Most flashlights take batteries that are disposable/replaceable or rechargeable standard (usually a 18650 or 26650 from what I've seen). Why can't your shaver just use a standard battery? Tablet form factors are different, but there's little reason they couldn't use a standard battery either (it would just have to be a flat one).
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Friday March 29 2019, @12:50AM
How is this flamebait? The last person I know who would possibly buy a John Deere product died last November at the ripe old age of 83. Last time I saw him, 10-12 years ago, his 1 kid had no intention of farming. He had 3 grandkids, one was about 10 at the time, who wanted Uncle Bill to keep farming until he was old enough to take over. I have no idea how this turned out, they live 2500 miles away, I never really got along with my cousin (my age, saw him every 2 years growing up, last time I saw him he had a crush on my youngest sister (4 years younger than him), and he thouroughy pissed me off enough I never forgave him).
That said, how is my wanting to be able to easily change the battery in my phone applicable to distant relatives wanting to fix their tractors?
And how is my not wanting to toss my $300 device in the trash because I can't fix it comparable to a farmer not wanting to throw his $30,000 tractor in the trash because reasons, where reasons makes it cheaper to buy a new tractor than to pay to have this one fixed?
Oh, it's only a $60,000 tractor you say? Yeah, but it's bringing in $200k in crops. Crops that will rot in the field if not harvested Right Fucking Now, not Take A Number, We'll Get To You RSN.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by GlennC on Thursday March 28 2019, @12:07AM
It's all just a show, anyway.
I don't believe that any Congresscritter, from either side of the Party, views this as anything other than a tool for pandering to potential voters.
Sorry folks...the world is bigger and more varied than you want it to be. Deal with it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 28 2019, @12:41AM
The main culprit on small farmers being squeezed is explicit government policies.
It's a long story, but the government has been looking for efficiencies, and on the mantra that bigger is better, they've been squeezing down small farmers for decades. This is why small private dairy farms were everywhere in the '60s, and they're almost extinct today. Among many other cases.
She's just playing a populist card in a perceived populist time. The hell with her.