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posted by martyb on Friday April 19 2019, @08:11PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the Death-is-cheap-life-is-expensive-dept dept.

Have you ever wondered what it costs to keep a person alive when they are on the brink of death? Thanks to a post by a suicide survivor who started a rash of posts concerning hospital costs for the mortally challenged we know that the hospital bill for suicide management can be from 10K to 100K. Oliver Jordan clocked up 25,000 likes and hundreds of responses to his post with some people saying it cost them 10K to 20K for a US emergency room visit. Once a patient enters a hospital they can racked many charges often without realising what the end bill will be.

In memory of MDC.


Original Submission

Related Stories

This Day in SoylentNews History: Anniversary of Michael David Crawford Passing Away 31 comments

Maybe the eds or someone already have something planned for the anniversary of MDC's death, or maybe the Coronavirus pandemic has overshadowed everything. I checked the subs queue and didn't see anything about MDC.

I'm sorry I don't have anything proper to submit, just a link to last year's article:
Michael David Crawford Passes Away.

His wish was not to be forgotten to be remembered through his works.

FWIW, I'm not the same AC who submitted that one; just a long-time /. & SN reader who was sincerely saddened by the news of MDC's death.

[Ed. addition follows. --martyb]

As a token of respect and thanks for his active participation on SoylentNews, staff updated our Subscribe page to facilitate making a site subscription in his memory. From Meta: Site News: Holiday Weekend, Staffing, Outage, Finances, Submissions, and Moderations (emphasis added):

When you subscribe, some of the site limits are relaxed and you get a shiny star next to any comments you post. For the humble, you can turn that star's display off in your preferences.

If you wish to help out, click on Subscribe and select whether you want the subscription to start/extend your own subscription or you wish to make a gift subscription. If it is a gift subscription, specify the UID for the recipient. The default of UID==6 is that of Michael Casadevall (another nick NCommander used when setting up the site) or you may replace the UID with 2339 in memory of Michael David Crawford, or any other UID that you want.

Penultimately, select a subscription duration and amount (the suggested amount is a minimum; any in excess of that is greatly appreciated), and click on the Continue button. NOTE: Javascript needs to have been enabled for the following step to work. Lastly, choose your payment method of either Paypal or Stripe, fill in the requested details, and submit.

As I have mentioned before, this site has real expenses with server hosting fees, domain name registration, paying for a CPA to file our taxes, and the like. Those who support us financially help "keep the lights on." Thank You!

Many years ago I came upon a definition that I believe embodies how MDC lived his life: "Honest is the absence of the intent to deceive." He set a very high bar that, though I try, do not know that I will be able to maintain the openness that I saw him exhibit.

Lastly, I find it timely that a fortune I saw on our site this morning seems apropos to his life:

So live that you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.

He may not have been faultless (who is?), but I am sure he would have no fears about what might be revealed by selling "the family parrot."

Previously:
Meta: Site News: Holiday Weekend, Staffing, Outage, Finances, Submissions, and Moderations
'This is how expensive it is to attempt suicide': Patient's bill goes viral
MDC Fortunes
Michael David Crawford Passes Away
Depression Strongly Correlated with Taking Three or More Common Drugs Simultaneously


Original Submission

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(1)
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @08:31PM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @08:31PM (#832275)

    Has some sage advice [youtube.com] on this troubling issue.

    • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday April 20 2019, @01:59AM (8 children)

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday April 20 2019, @01:59AM (#832400) Homepage

      What is that, be a bum so that nobody but the taxpayers are accountable? In spite of that insult, at least he regaled us with entertaining stories. Illegals don't have entertaining stories and end up costing us all way more in the long run.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:08AM (7 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:08AM (#832407)

        I know. Fuckin' illegal scum! [wikipedia.org]. That piece of shit is just a burden on society [earnthenecklace.com].

        Filling the the fucking country up with kids he can't afford! I bet he's stealing my hard-earned money with food stamps and welfare!

        Trump needs to deport his illegal alien ass right quick!

        • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:16AM (6 children)

          by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:16AM (#832413) Homepage

          Jews have this thing called "Righteous among the Gentiles."

          Gentiles such as myself have this thing called "Righteous among the Jews." Billy Joel was one of them, Noam Chomsky is another. Would any other Gentiles like to add to the list?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:27AM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:27AM (#832421)

            You don't click the links, either in my first or second posts, so the irony is lost.

            Oh well. You're tick on a pile of shit anyway. Never mind.

            • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:46AM (2 children)

              by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:46AM (#832429) Homepage

              I don't understand what point you were trying to make.

              My best guess is that you trying to compare the success of Billy Joel to Bernie Sanders? Both of them made a lot of money. But one is running for president.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @03:21AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @03:21AM (#832436)

                Actually, I was trying to share a pretty good song, whose chorus is apropos to this thread.

                The loss is yours, jackass.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @05:10PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @05:10PM (#832632)

                "I don't understand"

                Finally something at least accurate. I guess people are finally realizing you ARE just a racist twat and not some master troll.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @09:02AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @09:02AM (#832487)

              Can you not be a dick and just tell people it's "Get It Right the First Time" ?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @10:28AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @10:28AM (#832500)

                Why spoil the surprise?

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @08:32PM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @08:32PM (#832276)

    The government would provide you a clean and sure fire way to end your days.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:45PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:45PM (#832313)

      Especially for millennials.

    • (Score: 2, Touché) by realDonaldTrump on Friday April 19 2019, @10:43PM

      by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Friday April 19 2019, @10:43PM (#832342) Homepage Journal

      So true. We have to bring back the Death Penalty!!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @10:47PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @10:47PM (#832347)

      True. You only need to know the number of the self-SWAT hotline (aka 911). Just remember to give the correct address.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @10:50PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @10:50PM (#832350)

      In the book The Giver, government-provided suicide was called "happy release" iirc.

      However, an exit bag doesn't sound too expensive and sounds fairly foolproof. If/when I decide that it's time for me to initiate discorporation instead of waiting for my body to give out, I'll be using an exit bag. I would hate to leave a mess, and exit bag sounds like the most responsible and most painless method out there with almost no chance of survival.

      Problem with suicide is people watch too many movies, and then they think that taking a bunch of sleeping pills, a gunshot to the head, or cutting the wrists is going to be effective. Sleeping pills = very good chance you're waking up in a suicide ward with a $10,000 hotel bill. Cutting the wrists is like lolwut. Gunshot to the head sounds like it ought to be pretty final, but as it turns out, it's not. The brain is remarkably resilient organ! That means there's a decent chance that you'll not just wake up in a suicide ward with a $10,000 hotel bill, but you'll wake up brain damaged and only a fraction of the person you were before!

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @11:06PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @11:06PM (#832356)

        If you shoot yourself in the head correctly, it's 100% fatal and fast. The problem is that people do it wrong and wind up seriously brain damaged for life.

        Similarly, people frequently shah their wrists incorrectly and wind up in the suicide ward.

        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:13AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:13AM (#832411)

          Yes, too many people put the gun up to their temple. A more sure method is to stick the barrel in your mouth and point it upwards a bit, towards the base of back of your skull where the cerebellum and brain steam are. Also, going to a remote area where you won't be found soon will help, as even if your aim is off a bit you're quite likely to bleed out anyway.

          Personally I've toyed with the idea of committing suicide by strapping my entire gun collection all over myself, and then hanging myself. Leaving them to ponder if it counts as a gun-related death or not. But then in college I minored in non-verbal sarcasm.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by Bot on Saturday April 20 2019, @09:45AM

      by Bot (3902) on Saturday April 20 2019, @09:45AM (#832494) Journal

      That's exactly what they are doing.

      - where am I?
      - in hospital, you botched your suicide attempt
      - oh
      (time passes)
      - how you feel?
      - maybe it's the painkillers talking, but I feel ace doctor, I dunno what was I thinking when i tried to snuff myself
      - fine, your bill is 67000 dollars, are you insured?
      - ummm doctor do you have some arsenic handy?

      --
      Account abandoned.
  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @08:34PM (16 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @08:34PM (#832278)

    Had an ultrasound. Standard Price $5800.

    'negotiated' price with provider adjustment: final price: $151

    They just make these 'charges' up..

    Hospital "corporations" ought to be illegal..

    This country sucks...

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @08:50PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @08:50PM (#832287)

      Even including the liquid helium expenses, they are only a couple grand in the 2nd-3rd world, as opposed to the 10-50k they are here. And the turnaround is generally much faster too, since they are running them constantly rather than with a lot of idle time like here in the states.

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by pTamok on Friday April 19 2019, @09:01PM (4 children)

        by pTamok (3042) on Friday April 19 2019, @09:01PM (#832290)

        Cost of Private (i.e. not subsidised by the state) MRI scans in the UK.

        https://www.privatehealth.co.uk/conditions-and-treatments/mri-scan/costs/ [privatehealth.co.uk]

        • (Score: 2) by captain normal on Friday April 19 2019, @10:00PM (2 children)

          by captain normal (2205) on Friday April 19 2019, @10:00PM (#832320)

          MRI imaging is a different critter than ultrasound .

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday April 19 2019, @10:09PM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 19 2019, @10:09PM (#832329) Journal

          I knew it! UK is in the 2nd-3rd world. (large grin)

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
      • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Saturday April 20 2019, @04:22AM

        by bzipitidoo (4388) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 20 2019, @04:22AM (#832443) Journal

        For a CT scan the hospital list price: $9107. Medicare price: $189.

        For a 1L bag of saline solution the hospital charges $306, and Medicare charges a bit less than $2.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:38PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:38PM (#832306)

      You can group with a large group of potential users and buy the damn machine.

      • (Score: 2) by NewNic on Friday April 19 2019, @09:52PM

        by NewNic (6420) on Friday April 19 2019, @09:52PM (#832317) Journal

        You can group with a large group of potential users and buy the damn machine.

        Unless you pay off the local doctors, you won't get any referrals.

        --
        lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @10:12PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @10:12PM (#832333)
        The machine is useless without a doctor with special training who interprets results. Physicians who order scans are not interested in images as much as in the executive summary.
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 19 2019, @11:01PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 19 2019, @11:01PM (#832355) Journal

          The machine is useless without a doctor with special training who interprets results.

          Or someone who knows what they're doing. Certification cuts out the competition.

      • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:25AM

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:25AM (#832419) Homepage

        We already bought it. It's called the American Medical Establishment. People from the Baby-Boomer generation, ancestry disregarded and many of them in congress, realized that by focusing and legislating the anger of younger disenfranchised generations away into hatred for another scapegoat, could continue to live in fat city at the expense of everybody else by drawing the fire and using their command of the media apparatus as their "bazooka."

        It's a technique used by Hitler and many others over the course of time.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by edIII on Friday April 19 2019, @09:43PM (1 child)

      by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 19 2019, @09:43PM (#832310)

      The other side of that coin is when they're not making the charges up......

      • Standard sized computer monitor today? $500
      • Exact same monitor with maybe a few additions to make it "Medical Grade"? $23,000
      • Cost of medical specific upgrades like different housings? Less than $1,000
      • The INSURANCE policy the manufacturer purchases to protect themselves? $20,000 per monitor

      Those costs are approximate, but I read that in an article detailing why insurance costs for medical malpractice increases the costs of most regular products by several thousand percent. It's how a single band-aid can be $15.

      This is why medical in general needs to be practiced differently and more like Starfleet Medical. Disallow ALL lawsuits of any kind against the medical providers, and move towards a justice based approach. Meaning, if the medical community reviews the doctor's actions and determines he was a bad doctor, then remove him from his position. Have him undergo more training and certification before being allowed to touch somebody again. The victim does need to go for a $250 million dollar penalty because medical is already free. Any compensation would clearly include healing them of the damage, and continuing to provide the healthcare regardless. In other words, the citizen is already protected the social safety nets and does need to go for punitive damages. If the doctor fucked up too badly, then criminal charges should also be on the table, providing actual justice. If the doctor is convicted of that crime, then, and only then, can the victim start their own civil lawsuit, and can only name the doctor directly. This would preclude billions of dollars annually in costs, if not more.

      In the US, maybe upwards of 40c on the dollar is spent on you. The fact of the matter is that medicine could be practiced with a fraction of the budget achieving greater results. Proof of that can be found just be looking at Cuban health care. Double sanctions for over 60 years, and they're leaders in the medical community widely recognized as providing quite excellent medical care under their conditions. They're even capable of saving a diabetic's foot whereas the US just cuts it off.

      American health care costs are not stupid. They're based in cruelty and greed in a system not designed to provide medical care. It's entirely for profit with a sister market called Big Pharma that is dangerously for profit and entirely willing to risk thousands of deaths as a mere statistic to achieve ever greater profits. The Sacklers are a cancer on our society, and just one small corrupt evil cog in the meat grinder that is the American Dream™.

      --
      Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
      • (Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:29AM

        by linkdude64 (5482) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:29AM (#832422)

        No more points can be given, but this brought up many interesting points.

    • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:31AM

      by hendrikboom (1125) on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:31AM (#832425) Homepage Journal

      Last private MRI I had here in Montreal was $550.

    • (Score: 2) by darkfeline on Saturday April 20 2019, @04:06AM

      by darkfeline (1030) on Saturday April 20 2019, @04:06AM (#832440) Homepage

      Even better, there's an entire industry around making these charges up. Figuring out the right billing codes to use is an entire job, hospitals hire people whose entire job is figuring out the right charges to make up.

      --
      Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
  • (Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Friday April 19 2019, @09:01PM (42 children)

    by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Friday April 19 2019, @09:01PM (#832291)

    He only had to pay US$2,850 thanks to his insurance.

    From the article I get the vibe that he is one of those people who tried to opt out because they wanted the attention. And now he has it.

    If anyone knows more background on this case that indicates I'm wrong please let me know. Thanks

    --
    "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Friday April 19 2019, @09:20PM (40 children)

      He only had to pay US$2,850 thanks to his insurance.

      I see your point. At the same time, the double-dealing and sometimes outright lies about what things "cost," especially in hospital environments is way out of control.

      Back in 2009, I was admitted to the hospital (a doctor --incorrectly-- theorized that I might have MRSA [wikipedia.org]) for testing and intravenous antibiotics.

      After three days, the tests came back negative for MRSA and I was discharged.

      I had to pay something like USD$150-200 in charges, but I nearly fell on the floor when I saw the "explanation of benefits" (EOB) for my hospital stay.

      The total "cost" was ~USD$10,000.00. However, those costs included stays in two separate hospital rooms *at the same time*, as well as a pap smear [wikipedia.org].

      Given that I have only one body and, more interestingly, as a male, no cervix, I was rather surprised at such charges.

      I contacted the insurance company and they hemmed and hawed about it, finally telling me not to worry since I didn't have to pay for it. I persisted, saying that this was outright fraud and healthcare was already too expensive to allow this to happen.

      Finally, I was invited to a conference call with the insurance company and an accounts payable person from the hospital. The insurance person and the hospital person talked about the contract and its term in code for a while, until I demanded an explanation.

      It turns out that the contract between the insurance company and the hospital stated that regardless of condition, hospital admissions were reimbursed by the insurance company at USD$1,500/day.

      All the stuff on the EOB was just there to obscure the fact that the actual costs weren't 500% more than was claimed. Claiming such costs gives the hospital cover when outrageously overcharging the uninsured and gives the insurance company cover to say "look how much money you saved!"

      It's a huge scam. Which is why we need single-payer* health care in the US.

      *Note that single-payer does *not* mean "the government pays everything." It means that there's single entity that pays healthcare providers and collects premiums. Sure, there will be those who are subsidized, but we already have that and it's called Medicaid.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
      • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday April 19 2019, @09:32PM (14 children)

        Oops. My math is bad today.

        All the stuff on the EOB was just there to obscure the fact that the actual costs weren't 500% more than was claimed. Claiming such costs gives the hospital cover when outrageously overcharging the uninsured and gives the insurance company cover to say "look how much money you saved!"

        That 500% figure was 10,000 divided by 1,500 (per diem) rather than 10,000 divided by 4,500 (per diem * 3). So I should have said "more than 100% more" instead of 500%. My apologies for any confusion or annoyance caused.

        --
        No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
        • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:36PM (13 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:36PM (#832305)

          "Your bill will be thaaat many dollars, if you could just stick your tattoo in that shit hyuhyuhyuh."

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:43PM (12 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:43PM (#832308)

            "Your bill will be thaaat many dollars, if you could just stick your tattoo in that shit hyuhyuhyuh."

            What? Perhaps you could post again when you sober up, as I have no idea what you're blathering on about.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @10:10PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @10:10PM (#832331)

              Where's your tattoo? Why come you don't have a tattoo?

              You're an unscanable.

              UNSCANABLE!

              (I'm not the previous AC...)

            • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @10:47PM (10 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @10:47PM (#832345)

              It's a quote from a documentary about the future of the USA.

              • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday April 19 2019, @11:13PM (9 children)

                It's obviously not a documentary. At best, it's speculative fiction.

                Are you going to tell me next that Harrison Bergeron is a "documentary of the future" too?

                --
                No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
                • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:47AM (5 children)

                  by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 20 2019, @02:47AM (#832430) Journal

                  I always describe it as "If Nostradamus wrote a sci-fi"

                  --
                  В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
                  • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Saturday April 20 2019, @03:17AM (4 children)

                    Since no one else has bothered, care to share what "it" might be?

                    Thanks

                    --
                    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
                    • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:14PM (2 children)

                      by deimtee (3272) on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:14PM (#832519) Journal
                      --
                      No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
                    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @03:09PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @03:09PM (#832594)

                      The movie is called "Idiocracy". A sadly close approximation of where we could be in 500 years.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @05:13PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @05:13PM (#832633)

                  Jesus christ lighten up. That is the name of my new movie about the real rapture. Jesus was a hippy in the 60s but there were too many long haired bearded dudes. I will tell his story!

                  • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Sunday April 21 2019, @11:26PM

                    Jesus christ lighten up.

                    Firstly, that's not my name.

                    Secondly, I'm about to eat a heavy dinner, so that's not happening tonight either.

                    But I do appreciate your suggestion. Thank you!

                    --
                    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
                  • (Score: 3, Funny) by NotSanguine on Sunday April 21 2019, @11:29PM

                    Damn it! You added useful information after the first sentence! Argh!

                    What is wrong with you? You're a sadist, I tell you! Making people read stuff in order to understand things. You should be ashamed of yourself!

                    --
                    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
      • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:54PM (8 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:54PM (#832319)

        Are you a millennial? They may have done the cervix exam to see where you were on the gender spectrum that day. This is why it is better to select either Male or Female on the admissions paperwork instead of writing "gender is a social construct".

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 19 2019, @10:43PM (7 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday April 19 2019, @10:43PM (#832343) Journal

          Wasn't it the professors in the 70s who started that line? That would make it a Boomer thing, maybe a Gen-X thing, but not a Millennial thing. Just a friendly (for me...) reminder from your local cisgender lesbian :)

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @11:22PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @11:22PM (#832363)

            Professors may have developed this nuttiness, but millennials put it into production.

            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday April 19 2019, @11:59PM

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 19 2019, @11:59PM (#832375) Journal

              Professors may have developed this nuttiness, but millennials put it into reproduction.

              FTFY.
              The professors of the '60-'70-ies developed contraceptives and allowed abortions as a way to deal with the nuttiness [wikipedia.org].
              The health system in US made that expensive and the religious nuts (almost) made it illegal - don't blame the millenials.

              (large grin)

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @09:09AM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @09:09AM (#832489)

            <sarcasm>
            Now, dear, how can you be sure you are a lesbian?
            You could be confused.
            Maybe you need to experience straight sex with a man to put you right.
            Surely a few goes in the sack will just sort this out.
            </sarcasm>

            (note for the sick people in the crowd: they use to do this to lesbians to 'fix' them)

            • (Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:37PM

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:37PM (#832530) Journal

              "They" STILL do it, and worse, in plenty of places. As to how I know...I tried with a guy. It didn't work. It wasn't even gross so much as "wait, what? this is like kissing a building or something why the hell am I doing this?"

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
            • (Score: 2) by Webweasel on Saturday April 20 2019, @01:54PM (2 children)

              by Webweasel (567) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 20 2019, @01:54PM (#832567) Homepage Journal

              Have you actually met or seen any real lesbians?

              The MAJORITY are that way because they are so damn ugly no one will fuck them. Have actually watched a chick over 10 years (facial deformity) beg men for sex. Eventually she gave up, got fat and is now a lesbian.

              Bring it on lesbians. You can insult me all you want, you know its true.

              --
              Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @05:30PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @05:30PM (#832641)

                Here is poor little me who has met more than a few lesbians I wished were straight. Ah well, we can't all be hateful shits so I opted against murdering them for not giving me the sex I deserved!! /s cause this is SN

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 22 2019, @05:00PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 22 2019, @05:00PM (#833452)

                I have known lesbians of varying levels of attractiveness. Some of them were downright hot.

                ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THEM ACT LIKE HAZUKI.
                I don't think hazuki is trans or lesbian.
                Hazuki acts like a teenage virgin trying to catfish a lesbian in some totally inappropriate space

                "Hey everyone I'm a lesbian!! LESBIAN OVER HERE!!! Lesbian searching for k00l-space-GIRL-friend for a GIRL. Btw I am the GIRL your mother warned you about. Unless you are a guy... because uhm I'm the GIRL your mother warned you about... if you came out to your mother and you are ALSO A GIRL LIKE I AM. (With a vag like me.. because i like to eat vag)
                But uhm I am a good upstanding and moral person too. Moral enough to moralize to random internet strangers all day. But also your mother warned you about me, if you're a lesbian, because I... uhm do too much good in the world!!!!! Watch out world!!! Good person... Ahem GOOD LESBIAN WITH A SWEET VAG COMING THROUGH! Anyone need some do gooding because I am such a good person that it makes your mama jealous!!

                Make up your fucking mind you asshole.

                I'm not the only one who thinks this:

                https://soylentnews.org/~Azuma+Hazuki/journal/4143 [soylentnews.org]
                Genre: Informal
                    Female = 741
                    Male = 2736
                    Difference = 1995; 78.68%
                    Verdict: MALE

                https://soylentnews.org/~Azuma+Hazuki/journal/3949 [soylentnews.org]
                Genre: Informal
                    Female = 540
                    Male = 1483
                    Difference = 943; 73.3%
                    Verdict: MALE

                https://soylentnews.org/~Azuma+Hazuki/journal/3790 [soylentnews.org]
                Genre: Informal
                    Female = 1064
                    Male = 1641
                    Difference = 577; 60.66%
                    Verdict: MALE

                ---FOR COMPARISON---

                Arnold Schwarzenegger
                https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/11/opinions/arnold-schwarzenegger-fitness-takes-work-dont-give-up/index.html [cnn.com]
                Genre: Informal
                    Female = 1306
                    Male = 1630
                    Difference = 324; 55.51%
                    Verdict: Weak MALE
                (lol yes it really called arnold a weak male match. Next I’ll do Donald Trump but all of his larger bodies of text appear to be written by other people than his shorter works that were more consistent. I’m sure these were proofread so I’ll use a random collection minus covfee)

                Donald Trump Sample 1
                Genre: Informal
                    Female = 984
                    Male = 1715
                    Difference = 731; 63.54%
                    Verdict: MALE

                Donald Trump Sample 2
                Genre: Informal
                    Female = 265
                    Male = 342
                    Difference = 77; 56.34%
                    Verdict: Weak MALE

                Donald Trump Sample 3
                Genre: Informal
                    Female = 189
                    Male = 150
                    Difference = -39; 44.24%
                    Verdict: Weak FEMALE

                Donald Trump Sample 4
                Genre: Informal
                    Female = 116
                    Male = 160
                    Difference = 44; 57.97%
                    Verdict: Weak MALE

                So far the formal writing results have been pretty boring. I think this is interesting because even though the algorithm is totally confused it knows only a dude would publish something like this in a formal forum.

                Donald Trump Sample 4 (Formal)

                Genre: Formal
                    Female = 5
                    Male = 76
                    Difference = 71; 93.82%
                    Verdict: MALE

                Rosanne Barr Sample of short quotes
                Genre: Informal
                    Female = 237
                    Male = 331
                    Difference = 94; 58.27%
                    Verdict: Weak MALE
                (lol)

                Ellen Degeneres
                Sample 1
                Genre: Informal
                    Female = 510
                    Male = 235
                    Difference = -275; 31.54%
                    Verdict: FEMALE
                Sample 2
                Genre: Informal
                    Female = 596
                    Male = 202
                    Difference = -394; 25.31%
                    Verdict: FEMALE

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Friday April 19 2019, @10:47PM (13 children)

        by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Friday April 19 2019, @10:47PM (#832346)

        "It's a huge scam. Which is why we need single-payer* health care in the US."

        I'm in 100% agreement with you on this matter with the caveat that the health care also needs to be affordable by everyone. One of the major problems with the current system in the USA is that there are huge numbers of people who can't afford coverage even with the Affordable Care Act.

        --
        "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Friday April 19 2019, @11:10PM (11 children)

          I'm in 100% agreement with you on this matter with the caveat that the health care also needs to be affordable by everyone. One of the major problems with the current system in the USA is that there are huge numbers of people who can't afford coverage even with the Affordable Care Act.

          You won't get any argument from me. I currently pay more than USD$700/month for health insurance on the ACA exchange in my state. I receive no subsidies, either.

          With a deductible at USD$600, it's not too terrible.

          However, there are many providers who just refuse to accept my insurance plan. When I changed insurers at the end of 2017 (as they were raising the premium by more than 50% up to more than USD$1,200/month), I had to stop physical therapy early after a surgical procedure, as the PT provider didn't accept my new plan. Even before I went on an ACA plan, my employer changed the insurance company they were using. I called my (then) GP's office to make sure they accepted the new plan and the first words out of the medical office person's mouth were, "Is that an ACA plan? We don't accept any of those!"

          That's despite the fact that the same insurers whose plans they did accept were also offering ACA plans. Which is because the insurers have attempted to sabotage the ACA from within by reducing reimbursements to providers for ACA plans, even when premiums were comparable.

          The worst part of the ACA was that thanks to Max Baucus [wikipedia.org] the "public option" was removed from the plan before it even got to the floor of the Senate.

          As for "affordable," removing the profit motive from the health insurance business is a great place to start. In Germany, for example, they have private insurers, but those insurers are *required by law* to operate as non-profit entities.

          By all objective measures, single-payer is more efficient, cost-effective, and leads to better health outcomes than the system we have now.

          The whack jobs screaming "socialism!", "government takeover!" and "let the market decide!" are either woefully misinformed or just being disingenuous.

          --
          No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @11:39PM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @11:39PM (#832370)

            > those insurers are *required by law* to operate as non-profit entities.

            That sounds like a good start, but before you relax, take a look at what the top brass makes at some of the large non-profit organizations in USA. It's can be similar to C-suite wages in other big companies, many many times what the average worker makes.

            • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:04AM (4 children)

              That sounds like a good start, but before you relax, take a look at what the top brass makes at some of the large non-profit organizations in USA. It's can be similar to C-suite wages in other big companies, many many times what the average worker makes.

              Relax? WTF are you going on about? I wasn't even suggesting that the US go in that direction, was I? I advocated for *single-payer* not a system like Germany's.

              But you're right! Going with something like that, we should have all the executives *pay us* for the privilege of working at such a company. Otherwise it's just more of the same old capitalist exploitation, right?

              It's not like dividends paid out are many times the total compensation of a whole c-suite. amirite?

              Out of curiosity, do you have an actual suggestion as to how to make things better, or are you just part of the peanut gallery?

              --
              No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
              • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday April 20 2019, @06:44PM (3 children)

                by dry (223) on Saturday April 20 2019, @06:44PM (#832661) Journal

                Even with single payer, there's going to be insurance companies. Covering things that aren't covered by single payer such as here, optometrist, dental, drugs in many instances and traveling. Lots of commercials here about the dangers of traveling to the States without insurance.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 21 2019, @01:52AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 21 2019, @01:52AM (#832819)

                  Everything should be fully covered. I don't understand why health problems in your mouth or eyes aren't covered, but health issues that affect other parts of your body are. Come on now.

                  • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday April 21 2019, @04:18AM

                    by dry (223) on Sunday April 21 2019, @04:18AM (#832850) Journal

                    Not disagreeing but it all costs though some decisions are stupid. Optometrist used to be fully covered, then it was cut back to once every 2 years (in my case with a genetic disposition, once a year), now, only for under 19 yrs. Dental was also covered for a short while, when the government changed to the right side, it was removed.
                    Perhaps the dentist lobby is bigger, or more likely, had better timing. When single payer was brought in, the Doctors were not happy at all as single payer includes price fixing. All prices are set by the government, at least here in BC, with negotiations. The Doctors actually came out better then they expected as billing is so simple.
                    Another benefit, not sure if by law, is that all prices are published, even at the dentist, though the dentist is more free to negotiate with the patient over price. Doctors are basically limited, even with the non-covered though they can charge less or get you on the exchange rate if you whip out a couple of American 20's.

                • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Sunday April 21 2019, @11:36PM

                  Yes. You are 137.8% correct, sir.

                  If I implied otherwise, I certainly didn't intend to do so.

                  --
                  No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:34PM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @12:34PM (#832528)

            I pay 2% of my income*, it covers 90 to 100% of every bill. Every legit provider doesn't get a choice about accepting it, and the only things it doesn't cover are unnecessary cosmetic surgery and dental. Also, our procedure prices aren't massively inflated with bullshit, and almost all drugs are $2 - $20 per prescription.
            My recent chest Xray :
            - GP visit for referral - Bulk-billed** - no out-of-pocket charge
            - X-rays at clinic - $200 - Refunded $170 - Cost me $30
            - Follow up visit with GP to discuss - Bulk-billed - $0
            - Prescription $15 for one month supply.

            Total $45

            Oz medicare FTW.
            -----------------------
            *it's 2% if you earn less than $100,000 P/A. 3% if you earn over that and don't take the optional private insurance.

            ** bulk-billing - The practice of signing the rebate over to the doctor/clinic in exchange for the bill being exactly the rebate. You pay nothing, the doc makes it up by not having tp worry about getting paid and by cutting her accounting costs.

            • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Saturday April 20 2019, @01:24PM (3 children)

              Thanks for the breakdown.

              As you may or may not know, in addition to the millions in the US who have *no* coverage, the ~12 million who use our "insurance exchanges" [wikipedia.org], most Americans get their insurance through their employer.

              As I mentioned, I pay ~USD$8,500.00/annum (an individual plan, as opposed to a family plan, which are enormously more expensive), plus co-payments (ranging from USD$30 for visiting the GP, USD$40 for specialists and anywhere from USD$5-70 for prescriptions. In addition, the first USD$600 of expense each year comes out of my pocket -- not inclusive of co-payments) for my insurance from one of the "exchanges."

              Most employers implement a cost-sharing structure where the employer pays a portion of the monthly premiums and the employee pays a portion. Those portions vary from employer to employer. My last employer covered half and I covered the other half.

              I give all this detail for a reason (other than just to bore you). Median income in the US is ~USD56,000. Two percent of that is ~USD$1100/annum.

              Should the US implement a similar plan, I would save a whole lot of money, as would most people. Who, I'm sure would be free to purchase additional insurance if they wish.

              What's more, employers would be relieved of not just premium payments, but also employees (in large corporations, whole departments) who just deal with health insurance. Medical practices, hospitals and other healthcare and medical testing practices would also save significant amounts, as they need employees and, in some cases, whole departments just to handle medical billing with multiple insurers/plans.

              Moving beyond that, significant economies of scale can be had to save enormous amounts of money. Our Medicare (just for folks over 65), for example, has overhead of ~3%, while private insurers generally have much higher overhead, not to mention their profits.

              To give you an example, Anthem [wikipedia.org], one of the largest insurers in the US, has ~40 million health insurance customers.

              In 2018, they had profits of nearly USD$4 Billion on revenues (premiums) of ~USD$90 Billion. I don't have figures which detail how much of the $90 billion actually pays for medical care and how much is overhead. However, if they had overhead of 3% (like our Medicare), those 40 million people could either get a whole lot more health care, lower premiums, or both.

              Even more, a single-payer system would have much more power to negotiate prices from healthcare providers *and* pharmaceutical companies (we pay enormously more than any other country for the same medications).

              It's beyond me why there are people who don't have a vested interest in current system who don't see how single-payer would be much, much better than what we have now.

              If employers don't have to pay a portion of the premiums and employ people just to manage those processes, they could pay their employees more. It's really a win-win for everyone but the insurance industry.

              As an aside, I'm not a health care or insurance expert, just a user of the system. I'm sure there are many other ways to save money and improve care that I have no clue about.

              Yes. I hijacked your comment to plug single-payer in the US. But you really laid bare just how wasteful our system is. Thank you again.

              --
              No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 21 2019, @03:09AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 21 2019, @03:09AM (#832835)

                There are several obvious groups who like the current US system.
                The 0.1% who own most things and don't have to worry about healthcare costs. They get excellent care, and hide the cost as a business expense.
                Politicians/public servants who get really good plans cheap.
                Insurance companies who make shitloads of money off it.

                There are also other reasons that are not so obvious. Employers are generally well off enough to not worry about the costs, but they like that the current system ties you to them. They get to fire you whenever they feel like it, but quitting is a major deal for anyone with a family with any health problems. This is a huge power imbalance that adds to the general denigration of unions in dis-empowering the employee side when negotiating wages.

              • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 21 2019, @01:06PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 21 2019, @01:06PM (#832928)

                I should have made it clearer that the system covers everybody. 2% of income and you, your kids, your wife are all covered. Earn nothing, pay nothing, and you are still covered. The 2% is simply collected along with income tax, and there is no connection between how much you paid, and the fact that you have coverage under the system.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 20 2019, @06:27PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 20 2019, @06:27PM (#832654) Journal

          One of the major problems with the current system in the USA is that there are huge numbers of people who can't afford coverage even with the Affordable Care Act.

          Far from the first time that the names of bills have been misleading.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @06:47PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @06:47PM (#832664)

        Yes, it does not have to be government. It could be for example Blue Cross/Blue Shield, which is exactly what the doctor I had for 37 years wanted to have happen.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by ledow on Saturday April 20 2019, @10:33AM

      by ledow (5567) on Saturday April 20 2019, @10:33AM (#832501) Homepage

      So it was cheaper because he was already paying for his own and everyone else's treatments too? Amazing.

      And what if his insurance didn't cover self-inflicted conditions?

      P.S. That's still $2850 more than I will *ever* pay, in my entire life, for every bit of medical care, insurance, treatment or cover I ever require. With the possible exception of dentistry because you don't want to wait for that shit to fall into the "we will provide it for free because it's so serious" category.

      I'm not being funny, but $2850 is a significant sum, no. So someone who attempts to commit suicide, say because of massive outstanding debt and maybe they even lost their insurance, has to think about it going wrong and putting them in an even worse position. A worse position than attempting to kill yourself because of the financial problems you already face.

      Get the fuck off your high-horse and go look up what civilisation means. The guy's not looking for sympathy for himself... he's pointing out a ludicrous situation that's entirely the creation of the US healthcare system which is supposed to look after such people.

      Your doctors have a fucking lot to answer for, as regards their Hippocratic Oath.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:43PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:43PM (#832307)

    If you're gonna off yourself make sure to do it right!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:44PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 19 2019, @09:44PM (#832311)

      Yup. that's what I said [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @11:01AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @11:01AM (#832507)

      That's what she said.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @06:01PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @06:01PM (#832647)

        What, you wanted me to RTFA? Psshhhh

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @06:56PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 20 2019, @06:56PM (#832667)

    A failed suicide attempt can cause lifelong disability. Six figures would not surprise me.

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