from the 1984-is-a-warning-not-a-guideline dept.
A conversation between a passenger and an airline has gone viral, largely because people find it intensely creepy.
MacKenzie Fegan went to the airport last week. As with normal flights, she was expecting at some point to present her boarding card in order to get on her plane. However, she found all she had to do was look at a camera, and at no point was asked for her pass.
As convenient as that sounds, she had questions, which she put to the airline, JetBlue, in a now-viral thread.
I just boarded an international @JetBlue flight. Instead of scanning my boarding pass or handing over my passport, I looked into a camera before being allowed down the jet bridge. Did facial recognition replace boarding passes, unbeknownst to me? Did I consent to this?
— MacKenzie Fegan (@mackenzief) April 17, 2019Fegan had several pressing follow-up questions, such as "how" and "who exactly has my face on record?".
"Presumably these facial recognition scanners are matching my image to something in order to verify my identity," she wrote. "How does JetBlue know what I look like?"
So how concerned should we be that companies like JetBlue have access to this data?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @04:57PM (17 children)
TFS has dropped some important details. This was an international flight, and instead of presenting her passport they took her picture.
JetBlue doesn't know what she looks like. The picture was reduced to a number (effectively), that number was sent to CBP and verified against the boarding information they already had. Your biometric data has been in passports for a while now -- you can find the RFID if you know what you are looking for.
That doesn't reduce the creapiness of this, and I don't think it excuses it. But please do not confuse privacy (eg, how does jetblue know, how is the data stored, etc.) with freedom (eg, why in the name of anything holy are we allowing gov't and industry to get this damned cozy with each other).
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bob_super on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:14PM (10 children)
The gate people are probably delighted that the tech that will replace them is progressing so fast. Having to check you against your passport is one of those things they kept arguing they had to be there for (whether they actually pay attention to bad pictures when they have to process 150 people each is a different question).
Soon you will walk by the camera with the RFID passport in your pocket and there will only be one fat guy/lady sitting in the corner to keep a disinterested eye while processing baby strollers. Companies will save lots of cash, which will totally not get used to reduce prices, and blame the TSA if anything ever happens.
Expect some script kiddie to take down the whole unsecure system (while downloading all the passport data) and cause havoc.
But when the system works, you will gain a whole 5 seconds in line in the terminal, which will be as usual negated in the jetway or plane by the asshole who stands in the aisle for five minutes trying to remove his/her coat to put it with his/her third luggage in the bin (or the near-future version: to find his/her credit card to swipe to open the bin).
/grumpy, maybe
(Score: 2) by Snow on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:18PM (1 child)
I'm surprised they don't already charge for overhead access. It's an untapped revenue stream... Either give up your very, very limited foot room -- or, for an extra $9.95 -- You can have access to the overhead bin.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:55PM
You are behind the times. RyanAir does this already. Well, strictly they charge for any non-tiny cabin baggage, but essentially it's the same thing, just easier to enforce.
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday April 23 2019, @11:50PM (7 children)
No, this is not what will happen. The result of any automation is that now free resources can and will be used to do additional tasks; checks in this case.
Since both - speed of automated check and some new check - will be overestimated, the time we spend in lines as well as security expense will increase.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 3, Funny) by https on Tuesday April 23 2019, @11:59PM
I am wondering if you have ever seen capitalism in action.
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday April 24 2019, @12:05AM (5 children)
> The result of any automation is that now free resources can and will be used to do additional tasks; checks in this case.
You must be new to modern capitalism.
The result of automating [security checks] will be laying off people.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by legont on Wednesday April 24 2019, @03:23PM (4 children)
They quite recently switched from patting people down to high tech x-ray and other tech machines. Are you old enough to experience both? Did it make your security line shorter? Did it save money? No to all. They x-ray, magnet, sniff, and they still pat.
Bro, your idea of "modern" capitalism is so naive.
Yes, the specific type of NSA or airline monkeys might get fired, but the overall spending will increase and your life will be more miserable.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday April 24 2019, @04:22PM (2 children)
Your primary fault here is to compare gate agents, which are paid by the private airlines, with TSA agents, which are part of the government.
Your secondary fault is to compare machines which are supposed to provide better information to security people who were doing a difficult job in a dismal way, with machines designed to replace gate people.
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday April 24 2019, @05:32PM (1 child)
Your primary fault is to assume that money savings here are driven by free competition while it is as far away from free as possibly could be.
Level of security is mandated by the government and once automated the government will mandate more; even more than was saved. Airlines on the other hand are complacent because they take percentage of the security costs to their profits and move the total to customers. There is no competition here, but a nice bonus for all of them.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday April 24 2019, @05:43PM
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
Airlines are trying to save money by automating away their gate agents, which only do (symbolic) ID checks.
TSA is an ever-expanding mess, added as a fee on your ticket.
STOP conflating the two, FFS!
(Score: 2) by AssCork on Wednesday April 24 2019, @05:12PM
I've already filed the following defect;
"As a security-related object, groping and seeing nude the sheep entrusted into our care is no longer sufficient to complete my daily duties. I require full access to their body cavities.
Just popped-out of a tight spot. Came out mostly clean, too.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Snow on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:15PM (3 children)
How should that make anyone feel better? Its like a hash of your face. Sure, you can't use the number to recreate the face, but given the face and the number you can tell if it's a match (with some error).
That is also a confirmed identity. Your face has been matched to your identification. I wonder how much you can resell that for? Who might want to buy that information? Your government? Some other government?
Where is your face hash being stored? In 'THE CLOUD'? Who has access?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @06:52PM (2 children)
Facebook responded "Ooops, our bad. We had no idea any 3rd parties who had unrestricted access to this unsecured data were going to use it. We'll add this to our list and add another billion dollars to our 'Ooopsy jar'. Thank you for using Facebook."
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Wednesday April 24 2019, @08:32AM
Yeah, makes sense that facial recognition would use facebook data.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 24 2019, @09:26AM
https://dayssincelastfacebookscandal.com/ [dayssincelastfacebookscandal.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:53PM
Are you sure that's what happened? I was pretty sure that when the biometric passports were introduced people were promised it wasn't possible for just anyone who wanted to read and hold on to that biometric data.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Tuesday April 23 2019, @08:49PM
boing boing has more of the twitter exchange
https://boingboing.net/2019/04/23/in-this-twitter-exchange-jetb.html [boingboing.net]
Tl;dr: DHS sent the data to Jetblue, and there is, apparently, a way to opt-out (not described)
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by Alfred on Tuesday April 23 2019, @04:58PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:03PM (18 children)
Why does this crazy woman think she needs to consent to security-screening?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Alfred on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:08PM (6 children)
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:14PM (5 children)
Well that settles it. Instead of flying to Europe I'm going to drive.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:17PM
Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down (the) Gulf Stream...
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:27PM (3 children)
That's a lot of driving. Take the bus or train instead.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Alfred on Tuesday April 23 2019, @06:05PM
(Score: 2, Touché) by fustakrakich on Tuesday April 23 2019, @06:19PM (1 child)
Don't we have a "Chunnel" yet?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 24 2019, @01:06AM
Can't take the "Chunnel". I have Carpool Chunnel Syndrome.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:26PM (10 children)
If I read correctly, this has nothing to do with a security screaming.
This was about boarding the aircraft. You've already been through the TSA groping.
Your in the secure terminal area. Now it is time to bored you're plain.
Instead of showing your boarding pass, they scan your face and clear you to bored.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @06:59PM (3 children)
My god man, are you trying to make my ODC Weasel go insane?
(Score: 3, Funny) by etherscythe on Tuesday April 23 2019, @09:00PM
CDO man! The way it should be!
"Fake News: anything reported outside of my own personally chosen echo chamber"
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday April 24 2019, @03:09AM
(Score: 2) by AssCork on Wednesday April 24 2019, @05:14PM
This guy formats.
Just popped-out of a tight spot. Came out mostly clean, too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @07:34PM (1 child)
At first I thought you made a mistake, then another, then I realized, it had to be on purpose.
(Score: 4, Funny) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Tuesday April 23 2019, @09:50PM
No, no. This was an international flight. It was on porpoise.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @08:48PM (2 children)
The whole boarding process is a farce. What’s next, will I soon be getting my hole bored going through security?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @09:50PM
You mean you don't get your hole bored when going through security now??? I thought everyone got taken to the back room and told they looked "purty" while being "searched".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 24 2019, @12:03AM
TSA can take care of that for you. Just refuse to go through the pornomancer machine.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 24 2019, @03:38AM
I see what you did there. ;-)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:15PM (5 children)
It can be bad, but usually no security to speak of and cheaper.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:53PM (3 children)
shit they pull everybody out and check bags, ffs.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @06:19PM
Never happened to me, and I've ridden out of Baltimore, so...
(Score: 1) by crunchy_one on Tuesday April 23 2019, @07:41PM (1 child)
True this, only to be fair it's done by police from shitty little jurisdictions along the route trying to scrape up $ from the destitute with outstanding warrants.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @11:01PM
That would be a violation of constitutional rights, but hey that is the new USA!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @11:30PM
Homey don't ride no bus!
Homey got standards.
Homey refers to himself in the third person.
Homey uses incredibly dated slang.
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:26PM (7 children)
The scanner is just looking for the combination of beard + scowl, so they can spot the Muslims before they cause any trouble.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:31PM (6 children)
I bet they have never considered the possibility that one of the
MuslimsTerrorists might be white, attractive, male and polite. No way that could ever happen.And that terrorist would never be a regular FoxNews viewer and conspiracy whack job follower. No way they could rent a truck to park in front of a Federal building or something similar.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:50PM (2 children)
I was thinking about the same incident when I read the OP.
For those who didn't get it, or want to learn some facts that didn't make it into the official report try watching "A Noble Lie" [imdb.com],
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @09:36PM (1 child)
That was 1995... one incident 24 years ago. There were 24 incidents of Moslem terrorism in the past month even if you don't include Notre Dame.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 24 2019, @12:06AM
I am going to call BS on this one. 24? Got a list there of those events skippy?
(Score: 2) by Alfred on Tuesday April 23 2019, @06:12PM
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @09:33PM (1 child)
It's called "statistics". When 99% of terrorists are Muslim, you look for Muslims and you're 99% likely to find a terrorist.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @11:03PM
Not in the US you don't, you look for pissed off white dudes.
Sorry, what I meant is you SHOULD look for pissed of white dudes. You racist dummies only seem to get kids with science projects, but its ok cause THEY LOOK MUSLIM!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @05:57PM (1 child)
you're a fucking whore for flying in the first place. what are you whining about now? you already let them irradiate or grope you...shut up and like it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 24 2019, @07:51PM
Damn right! You should be cowering in your basement like OP.
Once you have the necessities [amazon.com], it's not like you need to go anywhare, right?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by donkeyhotay on Tuesday April 23 2019, @08:21PM (4 children)
My biggest worry with things like this is the huge degree of reliance on, and trust of, data systems. If the computer says you're not Bob Loblaw, then you're not Bob Loblaw no matter what the truth is. I work every day with data that is incorrect. If someone can mis-enter a correct address, why can't someone mis-enter a name with whatever sort of data element has your "face" in it. Why can't a coder accidentally mix up two identities in a UX?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 23 2019, @11:40PM
bah, nothing that serious could ever happen [engadget.com]
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday April 24 2019, @11:52AM (2 children)
I'm Mike...from Canmore!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 24 2019, @06:59PM (1 child)
You're from Kenmore? [wikipedia.org]
Are you here to fix my dishwasher?
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday April 24 2019, @09:58PM
Are we on the air?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike,_from_Canmore [wikipedia.org]
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---