Submitted via IRC for AndyTheAbsurd
It is one of the great dilemmas of climate change: We take such comfort from air conditioning that worldwide energy consumption for that purpose has already tripled since 1990. It is on track to grow even faster through mid-century—and assuming fossil-fuel–fired power plants provide the electricity, that could cause enough carbon dioxide emissions to warm the planet by another deadly half-degree Celsius.
A paper published Tuesday in the Nature Communications proposes a partial remedy: Heating, ventilation and air conditioning (or HVAC) systems move a lot of air. They can replace the entire air volume in an office building five or 10 times an hour. Machines that capture carbon dioxide from the atmosphere—a developing fix for climate change—also depend on moving large volumes of air. So why not save energy by tacking the carbon capture machine onto the air conditioner?
This futuristic proposal, from a team led by chemical engineer Roland Dittmeyer at Germany's Karlsruhe Institute of Technology, goes even further. The researchers imagine a system of modular components, powered by renewable energy, that would not just extract carbon dioxide and water from the air. It would also convert them into hydrogen, and then use a multistep chemical process to transform that hydrogen into liquid hydrocarbon fuels. The result: "Personalized, localized and distributed, synthetic oil wells" in buildings or neighborhoods, the authors write. "The envisioned model of 'crowd oil' from solar refineries, akin to 'crowd electricity' from solar panels," would enable people "to take control and collectively manage global warming and climate change, rather than depending on the fossil power industrial behemoths."
Source: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/could-air-conditioning-fix-climate-change/
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:08AM (2 children)
> "deadly half-degree Celsius."
I see this site is called "Scientific American", is "deadly" a scientific term? Or is it that the term "science" has lost all meaning due to marketers and propagandists misusing it?
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:13AM (1 child)
Stop it, aristarchus! Just stop it! Your AC spamming will soon be illegal on SN.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:58AM
I urgently need a long (at least 500 words) red pill post with lots of sources. Who has good copypasta?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Mykl on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:38AM (9 children)
Given that the capture of CO2 will require further energy input (potentially carbon producing energy!) to occur, won't this be like cooling your kitchen by leaving the refrigerator door open?
(Score: 2, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:59AM (4 children)
I do that all the time. I go to the Fridge. Open up my robe. And, open the door. It feels MAGNIFICENT! And now they found out, it helps our precious environment. Good to know. So good to know!
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:53AM (2 children)
As a public service, to help eradicate the vision of DT, robe open, flashing the ham in his fridge...
I link the following:
https://www.eyebleach.me/babes/ [eyebleach.me]
http://www.eyebleach.me/cats/ [eyebleach.me]
http://www.eyebleach.me/dogs/ [eyebleach.me]
http://www.eyebleach.me/nature/ [eyebleach.me]
You're welcome.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:14AM (1 child)
Why the bleach? Not like there'd be anything to see...
(Score: 3, Funny) by zocalo on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:52AM
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:36PM
Try the freezer, it's even more refreshing.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by zocalo on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:55AM (1 child)
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:41PM
Yeah, I don't mind if they want to slap some extra widgets on the air handler. The assumption that air conditioning is going to keep happening is a very valid one though. If it's a choice between me having to sleep in 80+F conditions or the planet, Earth's just fucked.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:03AM (1 child)
So they make the assumption that we will keep increasing energy need for HVAC systems, which is a credible statement, tacked on with that this will be powered by coal-power through 2050. That's far less credible. While I am pessimistic that we would've gotten rid of coal by then, I'm optimistic enough to believe that additional energy demand will be provided for in a cleaner way.
Then they lose me altogether stating that their system will suddenly be powered by renewable energy. If in 2050 we're still using coal to power hvac systems, then in 2050 we'll also be using coal to power their system.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @06:53AM
Ha ha ha "they" will definitely be still be using HVAC. And coal power or whatever they want.
"You" will be sucking up brown outs and dealing with it like the fucking serf you always were until 150 year ago. The entirety of human history, apart from the briefest period ending shortly, is rulers with immense wealth building golden pyramids and extravagant castles. That is where we are going back to - in your lifetime.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:40AM (7 children)
Thermodynamics is not friendly to this. We'll burn more coal to power the system. Wait, let's just burn the free fuel it makes, and we'll get free air conditioning! LOL.
Ordinary maintenance issues are not friendly to this. All that fancy gear will get clogged with gunk.
OSHA will have a fit over putting refineries on the rooftops of ordinary businesses.
To say it won't be cheap to buy is quite the understatement I'm sure.
So I won't trust them. The upcoming Soylentnews story about the banana disease being somehow caused by global warming is also suspect. These people are insane.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:13AM (4 children)
So if installing HVAC will require additional hardware to capture the CO2 and convert it into other 'useful products', who will pay the additional costs - installation, maintenance, running costs etc? Government, the building owner, the company occupying the building or will it be left to the poor tax payer again? Who owns the products that are produced, and how is any waste disposed of - or are they suggesting that everything will be recycled with nothing but goodness oozing from the installation?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:43AM
The problem is capitalism:
1) Employees get their money from wages, so the employer pays through wages.
2) Disposable income = wages – (taxes + the cost of living)
Under capitalism the first term in the brackets is negligible and can be rounded to zero. This can only be solved by increasing taxes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:46AM
Just build a big, beautiful wall. After it pays for itself, everything else is profit.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:43AM
More precisely the problem seems to be the net proposed system overall is turning 25 year depreciation HVAC into elaborate and complicated distributed "solar into liq hydrocarbon fuel" plants to run legacy machinery like cars operating on a 5 year depreciation schedule. And we have no experience running distributed solar into liq hydrocarbon fuel plants, but we already know how to convert gas whatevers to electric, so the risk differences are ridiculous.
It seems a lot more economically sensible to slap some solar panels on the roof and when the gas lawnmower wears out in a couple years, buy an electric lawnmower, ditto car, etc.
I will say that the overall system sounds very much like a modded minecraft contraption that would be amusing to view on youtube or in this situation, IRL. I mean, sure a noob would use a power conduit to connect the solar panel to the energy cell that powers his applied energistics network in minecraft call it good, and move on to digging up diamonds or whacking zombies or whatever; but it takes a genius madman to use the solar panel to run a garden cloche to grow potatoes to turn them into biomass to distill into ethanol to store in crafted iron buckets to eventually fluid transpose into portable tanks feeding ethanol burning generators to make power to run the applied energistics network. I mean, its not cool to plug in an extension cord when you can build an entire chemical plant for the sheer hell of it.
(Score: 2) by DavePolaschek on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:58PM
Silly, the same people who feed the pony will pay for the magic air-conditioner CO2 capture unit.
Of course, the pony will produce methane, but...
(Score: 2) by SubiculumHammer on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:11PM
It seems that the hvac already is generating heat, and that heat could be used to do more work, which if directed could be used to help carbon capture into fuel. THis should increase efficiency, though of course, not free.
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:00PM
I mean, they do call it out, It's even in the summary. So, realistic or not, they did see the flaw you mention. So by the laws of the internet you are now required to trust them completely.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @12:21PM
it's all a bit funny. buildings that need excessive airconditioning, you know because it's a total heat trap but it LOOKS cool.
the airconditioners are crap: they too have to look "cool". why a indoor unit of a split type has to hang on the wall instead of protruding / jutting naught-ly and perpendicular to the wall INTO the room is beyond me.
i suppose it will get interesting once the aircon is directly powered by combustion and carbon gas production.
it would never touch the athmosphere outside but would straight up be captured, funneled into a "reactor", which via solar generated electricity, would turn it into a "energized" gas that can be combusted anew to run the compressor.
my mind is salivating at all the coils and pipeing and sensors and reactor design that this will require.
also ... hmmm... co2 IS used as a working fluid in high pressure cooling applications ... OMG OMG
^_^
(Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Tuesday May 07 2019, @04:22PM
Are there small proof of concept units available? My office gets up to 2kppm (double the continuous exposure limit) at peak during the day with the doors and windows closed, so this information is relevant to my interest.
(Score: 2) by KilroySmith on Tuesday May 07 2019, @04:31PM (2 children)
Why install this system in Buildings?
Buildings don't generate CO2. Yes, the HVAC system moves a lot of air, but the only reason this system needs large quantities of air is because CO2 is such a small part of air (0.04%).
So, why don't we install this system at a source that generates CO2, where CO2 is more concentrated (14%), is already flowing through a pipe, and is hot so easier to chemically modify? That's right, let's install it in the tailpipes of cars. We can the drip the resulting "liquid hydrocarbon fuels" back into the fuel tank, and have a car that never needs to be refueled. It's a winner! Heck, I'm going to file the patent application for installing it in power plant exhausts; I'll be able to run entire cities without having to pay for fuel!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @10:09PM (1 child)
I know you're being fascetious; but that's the right idea with the wrong source. Googling around, it appears that cement production is one of the biggest CO2 emitting industries. Install the CO2 scrubbers/fixers at cement plants. CO2 is also not the biggest GHG. Methane is, but might be harder to control if it's mostly cow farts (not sure). Perhaps harvesting methane from composting manure might be useful.
The tailpipe problem with automobiles is already being solved by moving to electric cars. That move the emissions to power plants where they're more easily controlled.
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Wednesday May 08 2019, @12:26AM
Cow diapers with Methane Capture panels? Love it!. Though training a workforce to change those diapers regularly will be a challenge