Amsterdam's head of transport has announced plans to ban petrol and diesel cars in the city by 2030.
The clean air action plan aims to make the Dutch capital a "world leader in emission-free transport".
Transport chief Sharon Dijksma said residents "live a year less on average due to dirty air" and that the plan should "prolong the health of the average Amsterdammer by three months."
But the plan has already incited strong reactions in the Netherlands with one motoring organisation branding it "bizarre" and wondering how normal people would afford electric cars.
The plan, which would be applied 20 years before the Paris Agreement aims to slash greenhouse gas emissions, would require up to 23,000 electric charging points by 2025. The city currently has 3,000.
(Score: -1, Troll) by VLM on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:15AM (13 children)
Google claims Amsterdam is 17% Muslim, so the real percentage is probably about 36%.
That has some implications in that the "legacy civilization" of Europe seems hell bent on various social status signalling stuff like banning cars, but they're going away, and the replacement culture of Europe, that being Islam, does not get all excited about banning cars or whatever. I can't think of an Islamic city thats into anti-car social status signalling.
By 2030, white child-free leftist urban globalist hipsters are going to be a minority in Amsterdam, if not Europe in general, and I don't think the sharia caliphate or whatever it'll be called will implement, enforce, or care about banning cars.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:27AM (1 child)
Christians, eg 'The West' used to be just as nutty with their religion.
I know quite a few people of Arabic descent, whos ancestors were Muslim, and realistically? They aren't, any more than I'm Christian.
The real problem, as I see it, are fascist 'religious states'. As long as a religious states can control many things about what people learn, see, hear, and talk about -- the status quo will continue.
But that doesn't mean that 3rd generation immigrants will maintain historical ties.
But who knows really. 12 years is a long time, and a short time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @01:37AM
> The real problem, as I see it, are fascist 'religious states'. As long as a religious states can control many things about what people learn, see, hear, and talk about -- the status quo will continue.
The USA has many clusters of 2nd or 3rd generation madrassas [privateschoolreview.com]. Those who have passed through them only get minimal exposure to Western thought, ideas, or values, and not even reading or writing. The good news is that leaves them withoutt the skill to become serious terrorists. That is for the [nytimes.com]wealthy [internationalstudent.com], educated moslems. Other countries have it even worse. Pakistan [pbs.org] is one and a preview of Texas, Minnesota, and Michigan in another generation or two.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:28AM (9 children)
I think the guy who keeps posting the Jewish conspiracy stuff would disagree with you. After all it's the Jews who have a master plan, sealed in blood by way of birthright and they are all hell bent on taking over the world dontcha know.
Here's hoping he shows up to help you get your facts straight.
Meantime, the Irish culture here in the USA ended up being barely a blip on the radar despite very similar claims years ago. And since the Irish we have weathered crush after crush of huddled masses. As it turns out, kids don't really give a crap about their parent's imaginary sky fairies and generally want to not be poked fun at. So they integrate, assimilate and conform and the melting pot continues.
Can't really speak for Amsterdam, but 200+ years of an immigration policy that amounted to, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" has turned the USA into a powerhouse of innovation. A powerhouse that only started to ebb once we developed a sudden case of xenophobia.
Immigrants are what made this country great. If you really want to make it great again, then open the immigration policies back up.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:47AM (2 children)
It's probably the same guy.
(Score: 2) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @12:20PM (1 child)
Precisely why there would be disagreement don't you think?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:18PM
It depends on the motive. You are assuming people's motives are not simply to stir up shit. There are a significant amount of agitators in this world that love nothing better than see the world burn just so they can enjoy the show... at least until their ass is on fire.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @12:26PM
>> kids don't really give a crap about their parent's imaginary sky fairies and generally want to not be poked fun at
Except the SJWs don't allow you to poke fun at them anymore ("Islamophobia") so they aren't getting the necessary social cues to give up goat-fuckery and the like.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:15PM (4 children)
USA, Irish, conspiracy, Jews, ... you forgot to mention Kennedys's murders. Are you blind to contexts or what?
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday May 07 2019, @04:52PM (3 children)
The illuminati's mind control machine entered into a resonance with the Freemason's attack on our precious bodily fluids, causing him to skip a beat, or more precisely to jump over it like a lizardperson.
(Score: 2) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:47PM (2 children)
Actually I am a lizardperson. Our resident anti-semite anon-coward figured it out in a previous post and thus, I've learned to accept it at face value.
Feels good to be so l33t, lemme tell ya. I may have a mind control ray laying about somewhere, it will cause you to fluoridate your water and then you and your children can become lizard people too.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:04PM (1 child)
"anti-semite"
Your comedy fails to entertain anyone, khazar jewish rat!
.
.
Khazar jews are not semites. When you send a khazar jew to a concentration camp and make him do actual work, you are not being anti-semite. Khazar jews are not semites.
Khazar jews came from khazaria, a place in present-day Georgia. They converted to judaism (or told others they had, but judaism is a race not a religion and one cannot change race) after they were threatened with death if they continued on with their vile methods.
For starters, it is documented in "The Eternal Jew" (Der Ewige Jude) documentary.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @08:13AM
So what you are sayin is there is no true Scotsman eh?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman [wikipedia.org]
Jew is a race not a religion, and it is ok to send them to concentration camps so you can gas them, really you just said that to me?
You literally just tried to justify murdering people wholesale based on their genome. In fact you encouraged it.
Tell me more about gassing them. What was it like?
You act like a classic agitprop. You talk like you swallowed the SVR playbook, hook, line and sinker. This is why I called you a traitor earlier. Except after going over your posts I realized you are a complete amateur at it. SVR wouldnt be dumb enough to hire you and soylent isnt influential enough to make it worth their while to target.
Point of fact you are a run of the mill anti-semite who happened to encounter some old Russian and German propaganda while browsing stormfront and being unable to think for yourself, you swallowed it because it aligned with your biases, just fess up and own it.
Perhaps the most interesting thing about your posts is that a person does not rise to your level of dysfunctional obsession without being in love with the subject matter.
You intend to shock and be offensive but have you put any thought into what it says about you that it is men you are talking to and men you are talking about when you are getting your jollies off?
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday May 07 2019, @10:20PM
How the hell would you know? It's not like you've ever been there, or anywhere outside your provincial little mid-west American bubble.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:17AM (24 children)
Makes you wonder who's pushing for laws like this.
They don't serve the general interest of the public unless the govt is planning to offer a trade-in incentive towards a new car.
Electric buses don't have the range yet for a full shift last I checked, so the city is going to need to double it's fleet size and keep half that fleet idle at all times.
Electric cars are nice and have good range for commuting. I drove one and now I'm giving serious thought to getting one when my current car bites the dust. But my use case is to work and back, to the grocery store and back, kids to school and back. I put less than 40 miles on a car daily and maybe once a month I'll go out in the boonies, 150 mile round trip. So range isn't much of an issue for me and that's important because the stated range on these cars is for perfect weather on a flat road with no stop and go traffic. Where I live, electrics regularly get half or less of their stated mileage because too hot, too cold, too hilly, too much construction, you name it.
The technology isn't ready to replace mass transit options, it's barely ready for short commutes.
Is there like a Big Battery lobby, similar to Big Tobacco that's lobbying for this and I just missed the memo somehow?
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:23AM
To be fair, Amsterdam? You do NOT need a car, and it takes longer to get around that city with one, than without.
Even FedEx delivers packages with a bike. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.eltis.org/sites/default/files/news/fedex_trike_10.jpg [eltis.org]
When I was there, I even saw a FedEx guy just on a human powered bike, with a trailer (like you'd put a kid in), but instead for packages.
Inner city, for sure -- but, Amsterdam is almost all inner city.
(Score: 4, Informative) by PiMuNu on Tuesday May 07 2019, @12:55PM (17 children)
> They don't serve the general interest
Unless you are interested in not dying of lung cancer.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:00PM (13 children)
Except it doesn't cause cancer. Emphysema sure, but if car related pollution were cancer causing you'd see higher than normal rates of lung cancer in cities such as LA.
Real true fact here, your body is absolutely amazing at filtering out trash. Futhermore chemicals don't cause cancer. Cancer causes cancer and chemicals are only involved because they can sometimes activate the faulty DNA you already carried and your immune system subsequently fails to keep it in check.
People think cancer is some kind of external disease. It isn't. It is literally your body attempting to be immortal.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3610726/ [nih.gov]
(Score: 2) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:03PM
Replying to self because I was missing a citation on the rates of cancer
https://gis.cdc.gov/Cancer/USCS/DataViz.html [cdc.gov]
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:30PM (6 children)
Thanks for the correction.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:42PM (5 children)
No worries. In truth I was being pedantic. General health is poorer in cities with higher levels of air pollution and that is well supported. What isn't supported is that pollution causes lung cancer. If you look at that map, you'll see that cancer deaths are per capita, way higher in the less air polluted states, and it is absolutely lowest in Utah where the inversion traps so much smog in the valleys in the winter that we are literally told not to go outside for weeks at a time.
So if you had said "Perhaps it is in the general interest that they don't die of lung infections, emphysema or what not", I would have totally supported it.
As the child of a family of down winders I've gotten a bit sensitive on the subject of cancer and it's causes because there is so much misinformation out there.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:08PM (4 children)
Diesel and Gasoline Engine Exhausts and Some Nitroarenes. - Cancer in Humans [nih.gov]
(Score: 2) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:42PM (2 children)
Look, this last link is much better I'll grant you that. But you're still relying on the conclusions of a study rather than the data it's sourcing.
If you look at the data, the link with cancer is tenuous at best.
I'm not saying that pollution is healthy. It's pretty easy to step outside in heavy smog or during inversion season, take a deep breath and instantly realize it was a mistake. You will get sick from it. But it isn't going to cause cancer.
PM2.5 is particulate matter at 2.5 microns and smaller. These are generally speaking, abrasive to soft tissues such as those in the lung. It is long term exposure to this abrasive, constantly killing off healthy lung cells that gives the cancerous ones a better chance to grow. It isn't causative, it is correlative. You had lung cells and some of those lung cells were cancerous, i.e. immortal or at least much harder to kill. Being the survivors of constant abrasion they then go on to dominate the scene by virtue of the fact they are harder to kill.
The PM2.5 topic does bring up something I hadn't considered previously though. California has much tougher emissions requirements even though cities like LA have much worse air quality overall. Therefore it is likely the reason you see lower lung cancer rates in California vs the east coast is directly related to those tougher emissions requirements. Not sure how this holds though considering Utah has relaxed standards vs Cali, yet in Utah the lung cancer rate is much, much lower than Cali. Yet the per capita rate of smoking in Utah is lower than anywhere else in the country and therefore both the first hand and second hand smoke rate is lower. So I would guess that makes up the difference but that is only a guess and I say that as person who is well over 40 with a 30 year long, pack a day habit. Ergo my conclusion...
Car exhaust is a terrible health problem, but is not what causes lung cancer. Cancer causes cancer meaning when your cells decided to suddenly become immortal, other things may have helped it along but they didn't cause it. Unless of course they are mutagenics like say nicotine. But that's a whole other discussion.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:59PM (1 child)
Function of PM2.5 in the pathogenesis of lung cancer and chronic airway inflammatory diseases [nih.gov]
(Score: 2) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:36PM
I give up, you win...
Car exhaust causes cancer... In mice :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @06:21AM
"Cell Cycle is a peer-reviewed scientific journal covering a range of cell biology related contents. It was founded in 2002..."
Just pointing out that reputation and longevity are hard to earn in science. The Wiki page is full of hard sell... smells a bit whiffy.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:03PM (4 children)
Sulfur Dioxide absolutely DOES cause cancer. [lung.org]
WHO: 'Diesel exhaust fumes cancerous' [www.nhs.uk]
(Score: 2) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:13PM (3 children)
First link is to the American Lung Association and describes ill health effects of sulfur dioxide poisoning both acute and chronic, but doesn't list cancer as one of them.
Second link is to a summary from the national health service in the UK, but it is quoting an article from the Daily Mail which says the WHO says that the WHO has decided to reclassify Diesel Fumes from potentially carcinogenic to simply carcinogenic.
Quoting the link you supplied...
So... um yeah, I don't recommend firing up your diesel engine and huffing the tail pipe. I also wouldn't sit in an enclosed room with a running diesel engine. But if you have lung cancer it's unlikely it's due to that semi dropping off a trailer at your local Walmart.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:35PM (2 children)
Fair point on the first link, I probably should have checked it more thoroughly.
The second link stands, though, diesel fumes cause cancer according to the World Health Organization.
It's actually the PM2.5 (very fine particulate matter) that causes the cancer, not the sulfur dioxide.
Although, the SO2 does react with the atmosphere to create PM so it's not helping. [epa.gov]
(Score: 2) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:44PM (1 child)
Do you realize how ironic this conversation is considering your handle?
According to the same link, the WHO also claims sawdust and sunshine cause cancer.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:54PM
You've never heard of skin cancer?
And, wood dust IS a carcinogen. [cancer.gov]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:41PM (2 children)
Pollution from "modern" diesels is extremely low. Pollution from Electric cars may not be lower - because most of the problem these days is particulates from the brakes and tyres, and electric cars tend to be double the weight of conventional cars - so far more stress on brakes and tyres. The push for electric cars cars is mostly ill-informed political correctness - not that I rule out fake news and corruption. A recently published report (in the Brussels Times) says the energy required to manufacture the batteries for electric cars exceeds the lifetime consumption of most diesel cars. (Google is your friend).
Consider the following important fact-lets:
Not all cars are the latest technology. Old cars are "very bad". Old petrol cars pollute with unburned hydrocarbons - which are known carcinogens - but petrol is "All American".
Very new diesels ("Euro-6") have "Ad-Blu" technology - to cut down on Nitrous Oxides (the same ones used to improve sexual performance), they pump Urea (pig's piss) into the exhaust pipe. Ignoring the fact that pig's piss is neither Halal nor Kosher, there is no evidence that it is not responsible for the massive rise in Asthma and hay fever we have been experiencing since Euro 6 was invented. Nor is there any evidence that the manufacturers of Ad-Blu have been bribing officials to pass laws requiring the technology.
In fact there is absolutely no evidence of any kind what ever regarding the merits or otherwise of Ad-Blu technology on the road. Sure it works fine in the lab - but so did the Volkswagens.
This message brought to you by the Illiteratti.
Disclaimer: I don't own an electric car factory.
(Score: 2) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:51PM
Yeah, but are you considering the effects of regenerative braking in that math?
If you've ever driven an electric car or a hybrid you'll notice that despite the extra curb weight you hardly ever need the brakes and this is due to regenerative braking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_brake [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @06:24AM
Is this a retarted persontaling? Pig's piss? You expect real responses when your premise is pig's piss? Fuck off.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @03:00PM (3 children)
Someone who is nowhere and suddenly is everywhere is a classic example of the JIDF agent. It is easy to spot them but you've got to have a sharp eye.
Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation (Includes The 8 Traits of A Disinformationalist) [whale.to]
Some things never change.
.
.
P.S: What do you do for a living? Sit all day at a computer and add troll messages on all topics?
(Score: 2) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:56PM (2 children)
Ahh hello there!
I was wondering where you went.
I was hoping you could counter VLM's anti-muslim bias and entertain us all some more.
But, yes, you're absolutely right I'm an agent of the JIDF.
The Sanhedron sent me here to Utah to convert everyone to Judaism, with my stunning charisma, my gap teeth and my hairy obese body.
But in the process I fake converted to Mormonism and got disillusioned, then ended up disfellowshipped and now no one wants to hear me out.
Since that time I have been stalking you. Reporting back home to the mothership about your incredible insight into us.
We're all very interested in how you learned of our master plan.
Either that, or I'm bored at work and I find being a face for your impotent vitrol and foaming at the mouth entertaining.
Not really sure which, I'll let you decide.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:54PM (1 child)
Bored at work, or getting paid for work not done?
You khazar jews print money, others have to earn it. Go back to your JIDF handler/boss and tell him not to send you here again.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @08:27AM
Meh, my handler is too busy to care what you think. Anyways we here at the JIDF get more excitement from watching you. Obviously you have time to be here literally contributing nothing of value to society and wasting the perfectly good air in your moms basement. What exactly are you doing for her that she pays you so much? We would all like to know.
Ok so on a serious note, I am here because we heard you are actually having problems with shall we say handling manhood.
Where exactly did the bad man touch you?
Would you like a doll so all you have to do is point?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 09 2019, @12:30PM
You've obviously never been to Amsterdam - the bus usage is minimal, the vast majority are trams: which are electric!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:20AM (24 children)
Two things...
1) Pollution?
I was in Amsterdam for several multi-day work visits. Do you know how much smog I noticed?
NONE.
The place is on the ocean, and the constant wind from the west tends to keep the air very clean. I've been all over the world, and sure there's going to be some pollution, but the air is very clean for the size of the city. Very.
2) The Netherlands has a severe problem with cars. They don't have room for them, it's a walking / biking city, and they're all nuts about it. Absolutely nuts. I'm Canadian, and was in the process of negotiating a move / job there, and it fell apart over bringing my car over. Yes, really. Why?
Well first, they lied about the costs of import. For a Canuck? Greatly reduced costs... yet they claimed I was being "silly" because the costs were so absurd.
In fact when I mentioned that during my 4 day stay, I rented a car and drove to Germany -- you could see on their faces .. confusion, astonishment, and even a bit of hurt. As if the very idea of not spending all 4 days solely in Amsterdam, was wrong.
Yet where I live, I'll hop in my car, drive 500km to visit my brother, and then drive back home *that same day*. I'll leave at 5am, arrive a 9am (a mere 125km/hr), stay until midnight or so, then drive home. The very idea of having 20 countries within a *day's drive* is incredible to me, and so a big part of moving to anywhere in Europe?
Is being able to drive to these places! To drive into the country. To see the fields, the countryside, farms, hills, mountains, all of it!
Yet these city dwellers in Amsterdam were utterly confused that I'd ever want to drive, well, anywhere! Or maybe live outside Amsterdam and trek in daily, by bike or car, by tram or whatever...
They have a very, very strange mindset.
Note: I'm not saying it makes sense to drive a car in Amsterdam, but it makes sense to own one if you're going to drive *outside* of Amsterdam. Yet these people get almost ANGRY at the thought.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:59AM
> They have a very, very strange mindset.
I've heard similar from a Dutch friend--he went to school in Canada, stayed for ~20 years and was part of a startup. At some point it made sense for him to manage the Euro part of the business and he moved back. Bought a BMW i3 (limited range electric car) and when we talked a couple of years later he confirmed that, just when you want the range (bad weather, usually) is when the range dropped off. Very frustrating to use that car as your only car.
But I wouldn't call it "strange", it is the result of their culture. They've learned to live at high density and to cooperate much more than we (N. America) are used to, for their perceived common good.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @12:14PM (19 children)
Wow, that seems delusional. But car culture fits for canuckistan as cities are designed for cars, not people. Just like in Trumpland to the south.
In places like Amsterdam, people want to enjoy their life *outside* of a car, not in one. But you are so attached to your car, maybe you should live in one or something? I don't know, but if you can't even be apart from your car, I'm not sure you would like to live in place like Amsterdam or most of Europe for that matter. Even in German cities, getting around with a car is a pain in the ass and you are much better off with a bike.
Yeah, here people like to take their bikes out to places like that and actually take it easy. If you are driving, you see nothing. But I understand your culture. Like driving to a community mailbox, 50m down the street, because walking would somehow corrupt you car-soul or something. Yes people, that's a real thing they do in Canada or America. Drive even down their driveway to pickup their mail.
In Germany people drive a lot less, even if it is just to preserve their parking spot. Everyone bikes here in Germany. But Amsterdam, that's taken to another level. Evening imaging to move to Amsterdam and wanting to have your own car moved is quite disconnected. There are things called trains, buses and planes here to move around, not F-150s. And for some weird reason you actually need a car, then you can rent one. I've moved 3 years ago (from Canada) and neither miss or need a car.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:09PM (3 children)
Not all driveways are created equal. In the West, it's common for the mailbox to be next to the rural highway, a mile away from your actual house. Are you going to walk for the better part of an hour to get your mail?
Amsterdam, I would say, already has a post-car transportation culture so it's not so hard for them to ban them completely. It's like a vegetarian going full vegan--he's already most of the way there.
Still, even in densely populated cities with multi-modal transportation there remain valid use-cases for car ownership. Just because you might not have one does not mean others don't, and that their use cases are not valid. For example, in NYC there's no reason to have a car if all you ever do is commute into Manhattan and occasionally go somewhere else. But if your main axis of movement is from Far Rockaway, Queens, to the Bronx, then you better have a car or it will take you five hours each way to ride public transportation.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by aim on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:27PM (2 children)
Now that sounds like a very reasonable distance to use a bicycle, not a car. That in turn could do wonders for fitness (ok, walking would, too, but I'll accept that one doesn't want to spend that much time).
Oh. Do they also put recycling containers for paper up right there for all the advertisements, or are "no ads please" stickers respected?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:25PM (1 child)
Winter, snow, ice. Summer, 100F, rattlesnakes. That's if you're young and spry. Heaven help you if you're elderly.
Bicycles are great, and are more useful than most Americans suppose. They are not the right solution in every case.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @06:32AM
Plus if you drive you can get back on your couch quicker to watch Jerry Springer re-runs. Why waste all that time outside?
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:12PM (12 children)
Do the buses have weird restrictions on time of day or day of week the way there are in many cities in Trumpland? I ask because a couple of my neighbors work a schedule including Sunday, when buses in my city don't run, and a third works more than a kilometer from the nearest bus stop. And do the planes require a paid subscription to a precheck program in order not to get felt up?
How does liability insurance for car renters who don't own a car work? Are there weird restrictions on renters under 25 or on crossing state/provincial/etc. lines the way there are in Trumpland?
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Tuesday May 07 2019, @03:02PM (7 children)
How does liability insurance for car renters who don't own a car work?
How wouldn't it work? You hire the car, and you're insured. Job done.
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Tuesday May 07 2019, @03:43PM (6 children)
Unless the rental company adds a surcharge for those without valid insurance on another vehicle, on grounds that those without a personal vehicle are likely to be less experienced at driving.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:01PM (5 children)
That ... is just not the way it works. Have you ever rented a car ?
Anyone over the minimum age (25, usually) is offered the same coverage options.
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:30PM (4 children)
You guessed correctly that I have never rented a car. Nor have I owned one. I'm going based on what I have heard from others.
Which leaves what for people between graduation and the 25th birthday?
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:42PM
A few rare companies renting starting at 21, usually with a supplemental cost.
Beyond that, family, friends, public transport ... we all survived it, even before Uber/Lyft, even if it can occasionally really suck.
I blame all the moronic boys (mostly them) who can't be convinced to be responsible behind the wheel under 25, making the stats and my insurance premiums what they are/were.
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:44PM (1 child)
Which leaves what for people between graduation and the 25th birthday?
Partying.
How old are you?
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:59PM
I am over 25. I am asking on behalf of relatives who are 18 to 24.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Tuesday May 07 2019, @10:37PM
Which leaves what for people between graduation and the 25th birthday?
Paying more
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:02PM
As you can travel throughout most of Europe without even being checked at national borders it wouldn't make sense to have limits on travel. Most car insurance in Europe covers you for the whole of Europe, including the extra areas which are not part of the free travel Schengen Agreement, for example UK and Ireland. [wikipedia.org]
Since 2016 some countries have re-imposed border controls in an effort to check migrant movement, but other aspects of the agreement remain as before.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:17PM (2 children)
Of course not, the restrictions are quite sane: reduced frequency on weekends, reduced service between 01:00 and 06:00.
For that you can take your bicycle [wikipedia.org] with you.
How do suppose it works? Liability insurance is part of the rental contract, of course.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:59PM
Lots of credit cards have built in insurance too, if you use that car to rent...
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Wednesday May 08 2019, @05:05PM
What difference in the economy makes running the buses more often than once an hour, or at all at night or on Sundays, viable where you live?
That sort of depends on climate. Do you get thunderstorms or snow where you live?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:27PM (1 child)
Heh, our cities are very much designed for people. And for public transit. AND for cars.
I love Europe, been great every time I visited. I can see living there. But the simple truth is that European cities are older, and therefore, had narrower roads. And fast moving highways are much rarer.
This doesn't even remotely mean that Canadian cities don't have public transit. But it does mean that since Canadian cities are "younger", they have nice, wide roads everywhere... loads off highways, and can ALSO have public transit.
Toronto has subways, trains, buses, boats, ferries, everything you see in Europe. And! It has much, much better driving.
But please, continue your narrative. Close your eyes, and believe it is binary.
Because judging from your post, I doubt there's any point trying to convince you elsewise...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @06:36AM
Yay! Canada wins!!! Only indoors for 6 months.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:14PM (2 children)
> Do you know how much smog I noticed? NONE.
Surveying a couple of websites: Amsterdam level of PM2.5 is now (1 pm early summer) 8-25 microgram/m^3 . I don't know the time response (daily average? hourly? weekly?) for these random websites:
https://www.airvisual.com/netherlands/north-holland/amsterdam [airvisual.com]
http://www.airqualitynow.eu/comparing_city_details.php?amsterdam [airqualitynow.eu]
The best reference I could quickly find for effect on life expectancy was this one:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.estlett.8b00360 [acs.org]
Figure 3 shows 20 microgram/m^3 leads to a bit more than 0.5 year decrease in life expectancy. This is same order of magnitude as TFA which claims 1 year less life expectancy.
So, while there may be much less pollution in Amsterdam than where you live, the death toll from air pollution in Amsterdam is still reasonably high. Where you live, it is probably even worse - think about that for a moment and consider moving!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:22PM (1 child)
Wow.
So first, I live in rural Quebec, and drive in (when I need to) the city. Which is rare.
But in terms of your first link? I'm gobsmacked. I compared Toronto, to Amsterdam with the same site:
https://www.airvisual.com/canada/ontario/toronto [airvisual.com]
19, versus 33?! I don't get it.
Toronto? 3M. Greater Toronto Area? 6M! And we LOVE CARS. A lot!
Amsterdam? 800k Greater Amsterdam? 2.5M? Maybe?
Very, very strange.
Now bear in mind, people in Europe often get very, very confused because they see "CARS!!!" and yell "AHHHH!".
But we have very good public transit in our cities. Toronto has subways, buses, trains, street cars, well.. everything heh.
But I wonder... I really, really wonder... Toronto has more "fast moving" traffic at rush hour. And outside of rush hour? It has ALL fast moving traffic!
I wonder if all those cars idling in Amsterdam are the problem? Or, are there coal plants all over the place?
It's *weird*. What's with the pollution? Makes no sense!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @06:39AM
So. Wierd.
It's.
Like.
You Do;nt
Know.
Amything?
(Score: 2, Troll) by Username on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:55PM (3 children)
Ban all forms of transportation. Can just go back to walking and horses. Drag that cart full of produce behind you. Freezers? that is so anti environment, cure your meat with salt. Airconditioning? Just open a window, actually just get rid of houses all together, because who needs those anymore? That is just another way of separating our bodies from the environment were trying to save! Just depend on the community to keep you warm. Huddle together like penguins.
(Score: 2) by tizan on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:47PM (1 child)
I remember when banning cigarettes from public places started...sounded just like that
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @06:41AM
That and legalizing pot. Society just broke down overnight in both cases. According to Fox News predictions.
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:01PM
Can just go back to walking and horses.
Forget that - horse pollution is worse than 1950's Detroit Diesels for everyone.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 2) by The Shire on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:03PM (6 children)
The liberal public seems to have this misconception that if you drive an electric car you no longer produce CO2 to get to work. All you're doing is moving that production from your car to the power plant that's generating that electricity.
Additionally, it actually generates MORE CO2 because while a power plant has efficiences of scale, transmission of that power to charging stations results in a LOSS of efficiency. And there is a second loss of efficiency in charging and discharging the batteries.
The CO2 angle only works if all the power necessary to juice the entire public comes from renewables like solar and wind, but that's simply not possible unless we also warmly embrace and fast track nuclear, the only reliable non co2 producing energy source. I'm all for this, but the same people who want to ban combustion engines also blindly reject their only hope for the future - nuclear.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Pino P on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:33PM (4 children)
Citation needed that the "LOSS of efficiency" due to "transmission of that power to charging stations" is large enough to outweigh "efficiences of scale".
(Score: 3, Informative) by Dr Spin on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:57PM (3 children)
Citation Needed
I worked for years on home energy saving systems here in the UK. The relevant information from government statistics is that 30% of electrical energy is lost in the distribution network. And the UK is a very compact country.
The efficiency of a gigantic gas turbine (with all associated equipment) compared to a large diesel engine (500HP truck engine) is an improvement of about 10%. An electric car is probably marginally better than a truck engine - but the battery and charging system contribute to additional losses of about 20%.
You are welcome to look for the data yourself. Scientific journals and promotional material is readily available - and Google is your friend (OK, maybe not that friendly).
Forget the citations: Solar power and Wind power are probably not very efficient - but the raw energy is free, and there is NO CO2 or NOx.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:20PM (1 child)
But is it more compact than The Netherlands?
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Wednesday May 08 2019, @07:28PM
is it more compact than The Netherlands?
More or less the same in terms of population density (excluding Wales and Scotland - we Londoners always exclude them). Just not as flat.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:52PM
For the moment, let's go with your claim of 10% loss in efficiency from using a portable diesel engine compared to 30% electrical transmission losses and 20% battery losses. But an electric vehicle's power train is also mechanically simpler than that of an internal combustion engine vehicle. How much power is lost in an automotive transmission? In addition, electric vehicles are more likely to incorporate regenerative braking than ICE vehicles. How much energy is lost to braking in city traffic?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:14PM
But if you can't see it, it didn't happen. When production moved to third-world countries, children were made to work, and many died but since that is so far away you can't see it therefore it didn't happen.
Also, cheap oil being drilled in far away places and the poor oil-rich countries invaded to take their oil; but since it is far away and no one saw it, it didn't happen.
If you were to see how chickens are raised to be killed (and to lay eggs) you would stop consuming poultry. Same for beef. But those making money know these things and have adjusted their businesses to keep it all hidden.