foxnews.com/tech/amazon-machines-replace-thousands-of-jobs
The machines, which were being tested in a few warehouses in recent years, are able to scan goods coming down a conveyor belt and put them in custom-built boxes a few seconds later.
The machines can pack up boxes at a rate of 600 to 700 per hour, or four to five times as fast as human workers, according to Reuters, which first reported the development.
Also at: Reuters
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New Amazon Machines Can Pack 600 Orders Per Hour, Could Replace Thousands of Jobs
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(Score: 5, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Sunday May 19 2019, @04:43PM (34 children)
Bitching at the lack of an informative summary:
Just how big/expensive is this machine that's 4-5x as fast as "human workers"?
If 4.5 Amazon FTEs cost the company $300K/yr full up including benefits, overhead, etc. and this machine that has equivalent throughput costs $3 million and takes up 50 feet of conveyor belt to do it's thing, I'm not impressed.
If this machine only costs $500K and only takes up 5 feet of conveyor belt to accomplish the same throughput as 4.5 human workers, I'm very impressed, and expect the hidden "free shipping" tax on Amazon goods to be dropped accordingly after the 3 year ROI has accrued.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 19 2019, @05:09PM (7 children)
> and expect the hidden "free shipping" tax on Amazon goods to be dropped accordingly after the 3 year ROI has accrued
By then, Amazon is likely to have further tightened their monopoly hold on online shopping (in many categories) and will have no interest in lowering prices. Amazon is already more expensive than other suppliers in many cases (for example low volume books may well be cheaper direct from publishers).
(Score: 4, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Sunday May 19 2019, @06:07PM (5 children)
Might I suggest: banggood.com, among others.
Enjoy low-cost global mail shopping while it lasts.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 19 2019, @08:40PM
Banggood is fine if all you want is cheap Chinese crap* delivered slowly.
*It isn't necessarily all crap, but most of it is because they are often cutting corners making it as cheap as possible.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday May 20 2019, @03:59AM (3 children)
I've bought a couple things from Tomtop (similar outfit) and had no complaints.
banggood.com has stuff I never knew existed... like an old-fashioned handset for your cellphone... if I buy this, it's your fault. :)
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday May 20 2019, @12:15PM (2 children)
I never knew Sharp made cellphones - the Aquos S3 is really nice, my wife uses it as her daily driver now, and now uses Mint Mobile service for $15 per month, instead of the $30 she was paying. Cost for this 64GB/4GB 6" "mid-range" phone with killer cameras? $129.
I always though that Smartwatches should have their own SIM card access independent of your cellphone, I have one on the way.
I always thought that a waterPROOF smartphone with a big battery (think 5000+ mAH) made sense, trying to resist purchasing that one until we see how the watch works out with my "free" Google Fi data SIM.
Flashlights, sooooo many flashlights.
I haven't gotten the courage to try hand tools yet, not that I _need_ any.
Color display touchscreen case for Raspberry PI: $16, delivered.
I _almost_ got a bunch of $20 security cameras, but they're just too much work to install and setup and keep the spider webs off of.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday May 21 2019, @01:26AM (1 child)
Probably a lot of manufacturers "we never knew..." if one could follow all the rebadgings back to the original.
Send the hand tools to me; I'll try them out. :) Actually the main problem with Chinese tools is that the steel is soft, so anything with a point doesn't keep the point. Utterly worthless Philips screwdrivers.And sometimes soft or brittle shafts. (Make up my mind, do you plan to bend, shear, or shatter??)
Not especially cheap but noted an MP3 player that can take 128GB card... since the iTunes species invaded, I haven't found one locally that has more than 8GB storage or takes a card at all. If my old Sansa Clip ever dies I'll be bereft (commercial radio now being such crap, so it's my truck music)... might be worth risking the $35 for a backup.
These sites are the most gawdawful rabbit holes. :D
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday May 21 2019, @02:05AM
I think the more accurate statement is: the main problem with Chinese tools that they export to the US is that the steel is soft, because the biggest and most profitable tool market in the US is a bunch of Harbor Freight lovin' cheap ass redneck hypocrites.
Just like Mercedes doesn't really only make expensive luxury cars, they just project that image into the US with the subset of their products they export to US, the Chinese know which side their bread is buttered on. They know how to make good tool steel, they can and do make good tool steel when they want to, they just don't even bother trying to sell quality tool steel for US import because there ain't no way WalMart is gonna pay the required premium.
I used to tell myself I didn't care about how much storage was on my phone, didn't care if it took an expansion card or not. Today, I wouldn't consider a phone with less than 64GB storage unless it also has an expansion slot - which virtually ALL the phones on banggood do, even in the sub $100 category.
Too true, if you happen to find a cigarette lighter bluetooth to FM converter down there, be sure to pass the link this way...
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday May 20 2019, @06:20PM
Monopoly doesn't mean merely being the top business in a sector. There has to be no other competitors in that sector, not merely that they are smaller.
(Score: 4, Informative) by takyon on Sunday May 19 2019, @05:35PM (20 children)
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday May 19 2019, @07:04PM (19 children)
$55M for machines, 1300 unskilled job cuts, probably 130 skilled (machine maintenance) job adds... call it a net 1000 unskilled cuts. Amazon must pay dirt for their unskilled labor if their ROI horizon is over a year at $55K per unskilled job.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday May 19 2019, @07:11PM (8 children)
Machines such as those break down all the fucking time and often work poorly when they are in service -- ff you thought Mexicans were poor freight handlers then you ain't seen nuthin' yet. Amazon could earn brownie points by retraining their best unskilled workers into maintenance mechanics, it would be a perfect opportunity to learn skills and those workers would probably stay out of loyalty after having received free training. Because we're a good 20-30 years away from machines repairing each other. I worked in a printing press so I have seen everything that can go wrong with packaging-style machines.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday May 19 2019, @07:21PM (1 child)
The machines don't have to be error-free. They just need to replace 25 workers with 3-5 or whatever.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Funny) by krishnoid on Monday May 20 2019, @04:42AM
I bet they could save even more by standardizing on either glue *or* jam, without having to use both.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Sunday May 19 2019, @07:25PM
Unless you're typing this look-ma!-no-hands! using your nose or something, no you haven't: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6537600/Fonterra-fined-over-cheese-machine-accident [stuff.co.nz]
compiling...
(Score: 3, Funny) by krishnoid on Monday May 20 2019, @02:12AM (2 children)
Particularly with those shoes getting wedged in them all the time. Really tends to clog up the works.
(Score: 1) by redneckmother on Monday May 20 2019, @04:22AM (1 child)
I see what you did there...
Mas cerveza por favor.
(Score: 1) by redneckmother on Monday May 20 2019, @04:28AM
... also, nice (subtle) reference to "sabot".
Mas cerveza por favor.
(Score: 2) by Osamabobama on Monday May 20 2019, @06:31PM (1 child)
Is that a thing? I mean, I don't associate Mexicans with freight handling, nor am I aware of any such stereotypes.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 20 2019, @08:58PM
it's just the fast, half-assed way mexicans (in the US) do everything. they needn't be freight handlers to demonstrate this characteristic. they have to be illegal and still scared of being deported, though. the more americanized mexicans do a half-assed and slow job...
(Score: 2) by https on Sunday May 19 2019, @08:50PM (7 children)
Paying dirt for labour is their entire business model.
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 19 2019, @11:06PM (6 children)
Putting shit in a box and slapping the sticker that automatically got printed out for you isn't exactly demanding work in any way. I imagine it's exceedingly unfulfilling as well. Epically shitty jobs like this absolutely should be automated.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday May 20 2019, @04:04AM (3 children)
OTOH, there exist people for whom this would be a challenging job.
OTGH, their efficiency is probably equally, um, challenging.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday May 20 2019, @10:42AM (2 children)
That's actually a better point than you'd think at first glance. Intelligence distribution falls out so that there are a non-trivial percentage of people so bloody stupid that they're not good for anything in a world where mindless tedium has been automated away. I'm not talking your average dumbass who can learn a useful skill eventually. I'm talking about the ones so slow that the Army thinks they're worthless as infantry or even cooks. That's going to become an issue even if it isn't yet. I think it's one we can deal with but it doesn't need to be forgotten.
IMO, they need something to do though rather than a permanent handout. Temporarily helping someone down on their luck's one thing but people, despite how nice a temporary break from it is, do not exist well for long periods without purpose. Depression and anti-social mental disorders start cropping up with alarming frequency in people who do nothing productive.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by ewk on Monday May 20 2019, @01:47PM (1 child)
"Depression and anti-social mental disorders start cropping up with alarming frequency in people who do nothing productive."
As witnessed here daily :-)
I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday May 21 2019, @01:13AM
Oh to be able to be lumped in with that group. I've shoveled many tons of rock in the past few weeks. It's easier on my RSI than swinging a sledge hammer but I still wake up every morning barely able to hold a cup of coffee until I get everything stretched out and loosened up again.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday May 20 2019, @04:57AM (1 child)
I hate agreeing with you
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday May 20 2019, @10:47AM
I'm not always fond of agreeing with me either. Not every correct conclusion is a pleasant one.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Monday May 20 2019, @02:36AM
4 to 5 times faster than a human. Don't forget that the machines are going to run 24/7. It's probably replacing 12 to 15 workers.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday May 20 2019, @02:35PM
$13 per hour for packers if you believe glassdoor.com [glassdoor.com]. Although I didn't throw in the $869 (/year?) additional they list, $54,080 / year even if you double the hourly for benefits/overhead on a 40 by 52 basis (and they'd be crazy to use actual FT for workers - they should load with PT's to avoid benefits). And my guess is that the average would offset where $15 is minimum wage with an equal number of $11 jobs.
Figure that the $55 million is depreciated over 5 years for $11 million / year cost, and you get breakeven at 203.4 FTE cuts. It jumps to 271.2 FTE if you figure bennies/OH at half of salary ($19.60/hour gross expense).
This sig for rent.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 19 2019, @06:37PM
rDT/FauxNews submission. You want facts? Ha ha ha!
(Score: 2, Offtopic) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday May 19 2019, @07:17PM (2 children)
The Robots, supposedly cost ONE MILLION DOLLARS each. And they're getting, I assume, 110 of them. Sounds like a lot of money, right? And, it is a lot. But, they're hoping to make it up on the back end. Because, less Paper Cuts. People don't know this, Cardboard boxes are one of the biggest causes of Paper Cuts. They way they're doing it now, somebody reaches into every box. Reaching over those sharp Cardboard flaps. And puts each "item" into the box by hand. Every single item is hand-packed, so amazing. And, so dangerous. Look what happened to Monsanto. A few lawsuits of, Packers dieing, or getting crippled by Paper Cuts and they could lose as much money as they're paying for these Robots. I'm no fan of Cheatin' Jeff Bozo -- as everybody knows. But, there are reasons he's the richest "person"!!
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 19 2019, @09:09PM (1 child)
That's what, eight porn stars for you? You may find it more cost effective, and less politically dangerous, to pay a machine to handle your package.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Monday May 20 2019, @04:48AM
Possibly more kinematically dangerous [youtube.com], however.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 19 2019, @08:01PM
Amazon is in this for the long haul, if it takes them 10 years to recoup costs then start making a 'profit' due to lower costs, then they do it. Its called strategic planning.
Cant waste time planning for next month when you are this large.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Sunday May 19 2019, @05:45PM (4 children)
Just think of the jobs it could replace!
Yeah, mine...please!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Sunday May 19 2019, @08:11PM (3 children)
Sadly, the near future will be millions of robots selling products to millions of unemployed people.
As opposed to a more desirable, totally non-capitalistic future where mankind is freed from toil by the machines it managed to create over aeons of successful evolution, and the few that still work - not because they have to but because they choose to - get to enjoy an even better life.
(Score: 3, Informative) by ledow on Monday May 20 2019, @07:49AM (1 child)
The future is going to be what your teachers warned you about:
Skilled labour in demand, everyone else unemployed.
You can only automate unskilled labour out of existence. The definition of unskilled evolves, but not by much. A plumber is skilled. An electrician is skilled. You can't automate their jobs (though there's no reason you couldn't start to see pre-fab houses with pre-run cables and plumbing).
Box-packing is not skilled labour. It may not be easy, it may not be fun, it may require a certain experience of how to pack properly, and a certain dedication to get the packing numbers required, but it's unskilled. And easily replaceable.
I don't know about you but McDonald's employee are basically disappearing now... kiosks to buy your food, everyone behind the counter cooking, and with drive-thrus and the collection counters there's basically one guy handing you the order... and he can be automated out of existence by a conveyor belt.
If you don't want to be automated out of a job, obtain a skill that's not so easily replicated. Sure, there are some industries where even highly-skilled labourers aren't protected (e.g. think about all the internal combustion engine designers in 50 year's time)... but they should be skilled enough to retrain and apply their skills to other areas that are needed.
If your job has featured on How It's Made, you're gonna need a new job. If your job consists of a small handful of mindless operations that any able-bodied person can do, you're gonna need a new job.
Even in a future of Universal Basic Income, the skilled are going to lead a more privileged life than the rest of us, and good luck to them!
The alternative, especially in IT, is to be able to learn REALLY well and REALLY fast - that's a skill in itself.
Remember when your teachers told you that you'd end up pushing burgers around, and that's no job for anyone? They said that for a reason. They were also telling you that robots were the future even back in the 60's.
If you are utterly skill-less, then I'm afraid my sympathy is low unless there's a seriously compelling reason for that - and likely that reason is something along the lines of being a paraplegic or similar.
Charlie and The Chocolate Factory taught you this lesson: Putting the tops on toothpaste isn't a long-term career. Being the guy who fixes the machine that puts the tops on the toothpaste may well be.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday May 20 2019, @02:50PM
What is considered skilled and unskilled, however, dynamically changes with technology advances. Burger Flipper versus Executive Chef - both will produce a cheeseburger but the Burger Flipper can be automated. Perhaps it would be better to view it as deterministic versus non-deterministic tasks. With what passes for Artificial Intelligence now, though, even that definition is fairly plastic today.
Though I will believe MIT about the reality of automation losses: Nobody really knows for sure [technologyreview.com] what will happen tomorrow.
What Charlie and the Chocolate Factory taught me was that one needs to find an exploitable slave-labor population nobody else knows about who are personally grateful to you, and that if you don't have a Sugar Daddy you should prepare for the imminent development of cap-less toothpaste tube next year.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday May 20 2019, @06:32PM
Until the AI that owns all the stuff cuts us off. Such fantasies are wonderful until you realize that you have no control over whether the fantasy stays on the rails. At least with capitalist futures, we own stuff and thus, have some additional level of control over our destinies.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 19 2019, @06:16PM (8 children)
Does the machine do a better job of choosing/using appropriately-sized boxes than its human counterparts?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 19 2019, @06:31PM
Just by pure dumb luck they have to....
(Score: 3, Informative) by KilroySmith on Sunday May 19 2019, @06:47PM
FTFS:
"custom-built boxes"
(Score: 4, Insightful) by drussell on Sunday May 19 2019, @07:10PM
I think that is half the reason for doing this automated packing machine...
It "looks" at the items, then makes a custom-sized shipping box before packing the items and spitting them out the other end, ready for dispatch...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 19 2019, @08:59PM (3 children)
Maybe they can actually honor their 2 day shipping.
Last 5 items I bought arrived about 5 days after purchase. Not obscure crazy huge things. Something their system said they had on the shelf and had a delivery day of 2 days later. Then after I buy suddenly it does not even SHIP for 3 days...
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Sunday May 19 2019, @09:54PM (2 children)
As soon as it's late (when the estimated arrival date for the package on the orders page passes), complain to customer service. Use the email option. You could easily get store credit or the item free.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 20 2019, @12:28AM (1 child)
Thats the plan. As soon as I find where the HELL they buried it in their website.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday May 20 2019, @01:42AM
They might have changed it. It might need to be done from Your Orders on an open order, or they might have removed the support feature I remember using and replaced it with this contact page [amazon.com]. In which case I would try the instant chat option.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 21 2019, @06:25PM
Packers don't even get to choose the box size, the computer tells them which box to use. When your stuff comes in an inappropriately sized box that's down to somebody in receiving being a lazy dolt who can't/won't assign proper measurements to the product when they enter it into the system.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by SubiculumHammer on Sunday May 19 2019, @06:45PM (8 children)
#YangGang
#AndrewYang2020
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 19 2019, @08:52PM (6 children)
it's not off topic.
the whole point of the God State Allowance/UBI is b/c automation will take so many jobs that civ will collapse if something is not done. good thing Young Changly has hardcoded our allowance to 1000 a month so no matter how much these supranational douches save, and the international criminal banksters running the nations of the world inflate/steal, we still only get our set $ amount. yay! also, they say "no strings attached", but once you sign over your last little bit of freedom you can bet your bottom UBICredit that they add onerous strings later.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 19 2019, @09:03PM (2 children)
Let me show you how this system will fail.
Take section 8 housing. Good deal for those who can get into it. ~500-1000 a month for housing depending on where you live.
Lets say for the area they make it 500 dollars for housing. Well lets say I do not want to deal with you. I set my price to be 550 a month. Not terribly much more. But I can tell you from first hand experience the people who use section 8 do not come off the extra 50.
What does that mean? Everyone will raise their prices. You will create an inflation blip and the world will move on from it. You will also create a recession from it. No getting around it. Oh it will be short term. But it will do it. Then after it is all said and done you have created a tax on people who save and a new tax on everyone when they buy something. But at least everyone gets 1000 dollars. Big deal. It would end up being a big do nothing and create jobs that are functionally useless.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Bobs on Sunday May 19 2019, @09:25PM (1 child)
Nice theoretical, ivory tower argument.
In the real world, just about anyplace you can get Section-8 housing there is already a waiting-list months long: demand far outstrips supply.
Everybody offering Section-8 is charging the max the government allows, and
Offering a UBI will have effectively zero impact on the availability or price of section-8 housing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 20 2019, @12:31AM
I use section 8 as an example of something *like* UBI.
Depending on the state you live in section 8 is either pre-approved places or a stipend and any place is possible (with in price ranges). There are 2 types of landlords. The let it rot landlords. They *love* section 8. Easy to flip. The the others as investment property owners. They do everything they can to keep people out like that. They usually destroy the place. They have no skin in the game. (source: I know many landlords).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 20 2019, @03:07AM (2 children)
Good God!!! Won't this meme ever die? Look, the State is not going to give you an allowance merely because you exist. This is not how it has ever worked in the past. And it almost certainly won't work that way any time in the future. Sorry if this bursts your bubble, but it's the truth. And civilization is not going to collapse either if you and your family and friends do not get a UBI. The way excess population has typically been taken care of in the past is by wars. Or, sometimes those in power set up gruesome games of survival of the fittest to entertain and amuse themselves and the masses. Think gladiators, for example. Think Hunger Games. Those are the "onerous strings" that are most likely to be added later. Yes, it will get ugly. Just so you know.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 20 2019, @02:54PM
Or the excess population rises up, a certain number die in that revolt, and we find out if the masters will lose by sheer numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 20 2019, @09:15PM
it was meant as tongue in cheek but "alrighty then".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 20 2019, @01:58AM
Fascinating.
It might just save capitalism for another 100 years.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Gaaark on Monday May 20 2019, @03:45AM (4 children)
So you lay off all your workers, then what do you do when there is nobody able to buy your stuff?
Wasn't it Ford who paid his workers more so they'd be able to buy his cars...he sold more cars and got richer! Huh...if people have good paying jobs, they can buy your shit and make you richer!
Lay everybody off and no one can buy squat and you get poorer. Huh.
I. just. don't. get. it.
Guess it's time to buy even LESS from Amazon...which isn't anything, lol.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday May 20 2019, @04:53AM (2 children)
So it's better to have people doing work that can be easily automated?
If you want to be Amish, that's fine. The rest of us want to automate away pointless jobs.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Gaaark on Monday May 20 2019, @03:57PM (1 child)
Sure, but do you have a job for those who were laid off?
If not, you'll have rebellion, starvation...all so one person can get richer, until they find there's no one who can afford to buy their products/services.
So, no jobs, no money, no UBI?
Yeah...that's a future to look forward to.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Tuesday May 21 2019, @06:31AM
I do hope they automate my job - given that much of my job is automating my job. I don't want to do menial repetitive work that can be automated.
I trust that Buggy Whip manufacturers are still complaining about their jobs going?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 20 2019, @09:56AM
> Wasn't it Ford ...
That's the popular story that I heard as a kid. But more recently, I read another point of view which said that Ford's assembly line was such boring, demeaning, work that he had to pay more just to get enough employees. The more skilled workers from before the production line mostly quit(?) Not sure which version is true, there may be some truth on both sides of this story?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday May 20 2019, @04:18PM
Isn't this the job Amazon said they wouldn't automate last week? Or was that some other kind of picker?
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.