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posted by chromas on Friday May 24 2019, @12:56PM   Printer-friendly
from the me dept.

New cars collect and report hundreds of gigabytes of data per day. Most people remain unaware of that and thus privacy debates have largely ignored the question of what data is collected by what we drive, and who has or hasn't access to it. In the case of independent repair shops, it is also important to ask who is denied access. Surveys have shown that nearly 90 percent say that the vehicles owners shoud control who sees the vehicle's data. Yet that is not the case.

Cars produced today are essentially smartphones with wheels. For drivers, this has meant many new features: automatic braking, turn-by-turn directions, infotainment. But for all the things we're getting out of our connected vehicles, carmakers are getting much, much more: They're constantly collecting data from our vehicles.

Today's cars are equipped with telematics, in the form of an always-on wireless transmitter that constantly sends vehicle performance and maintenance data to the manufacturer. Modern cars collect as much as 25 gigabytes of data per hour, the consulting firm McKinsey estimates, and it's about much more than performance and maintenance.

Cars not only know how much we weigh but also track how much weight we gain. They know how fast we drive, where we live, how many children we have — even financial information. Connect a phone to a car, and it knows who we call and who we text.

But who owns and, ultimately, controls that data? And what are carmakers doing with it?

Most SN coverage about cars has been either about self-driving cars or taxi service apps. Right-to-repair discussions are more relevant though, even if cars are not brought into those discussions yet. The right-to-repair discussions have focused on consumer electronics and some farm equipment so far.


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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by PiMuNu on Friday May 24 2019, @01:41PM (8 children)

    by PiMuNu (3823) on Friday May 24 2019, @01:41PM (#847052)

    > But who owns and, ultimately, controls that data?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation [wikipedia.org]

    In Europe, personal data may not be processed [including being stored on a database] unless:

            (a) If the data subject has given consent to the processing of his or her personal data;
            (b) To fulfill contractual obligations with a data subject, or for tasks at the request of a data subject who is in the process of entering into a contract;
            (c) To comply with a data controller's legal obligations;
            (d) To protect the vital interests of a data subject or another individual;
            (e) To perform a task in the public interest or in official authority;
            (f) For the legitimate interests of a data controller or a third party, unless these interests are overridden by interests of the data subject or her or his rights according to the Charter of Fundamental Rights (especially in the case of children).

    Citizens have the right to access their personal data and a right of erasure of their personal data.

    I can't comment about the USA and other nations.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Friday May 24 2019, @02:07PM (7 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday May 24 2019, @02:07PM (#847065)

      If the data subject has given consent to the processing of his or her personal data

      In one of those 27 pages of signatures collected by a car dealer upon sale of a vehicle, I'm sure this is covered.

      To perform a task in the public interest or in official authority

      So, anyone wearing a uniform, or robes while sitting on a bench, can summon your vehicle's data, basically at will.

      Citizens have the right to access their personal data and a right of erasure of their personal data

      So, how to exercise that right is prominently displayed in the users' guide, and on-screen help, of the vehicle systems of all vehicles sold in countries where this law applies, is it?

      IMO, the whole thing is out of control, and is just one (of many) reasons that the newest vehicle in our fleet is from 2002, and I'm strongly considering replacing it with one from 1969 when the time comes.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @02:30PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @02:30PM (#847082)

        ...and I'm strongly considering replacing it with one from 1969 when the time comes.

        Then you'll be a grail defiling polluter of the planet, and the law will eventually compel you to replace it with a telemetrymobile, 'cos saving the planet (just like smart meters) or some other kind of BS environmental reason will prevail as the official 'excuse' for the data collection fuckwittery, or, they'll allow you to keep it, but just eventually 'pollution tax' your older vehicles off the road..

        Resistance is futile &etc.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday May 24 2019, @03:00PM (1 child)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday May 24 2019, @03:00PM (#847095)

          the law will eventually compel you to replace it with a telemetrymobile

          Perhaps. In 'Murica we gots tha FREEDOM to drive our grandpappy's pickup truck 'till tha wheels done come off, mostwise 'cos so many folks too damn poor to buy a new 'un.

          By the late 60s, most of the better cars (A model GM, for instance) were coming with basic safety like headrests, collapsing steering columns, front disc brakes, etc. and they also finally started installing air conditioners that could actually cool the cabin on a hot day.

          Needless to say, they're easier to work on, and with a small block V8 engine there's plenty of reserve power to handle off-tune days, and there's also a huge aftermarket of practical things like 4 barrel carb replacement EFI kits. I don't mind modern, I don't mind digital control, what I do mind is my 2002 S430 where everything is so integrated that the damn thing won't even run unless all of the critical sensors (and there are far too many of them) are operational.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @07:25PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @07:25PM (#847301)

            I am working with a 2007 Jeep Compass - I currently only drive about 3000 to 4000 miles per year and with only 72000 on it, it will hopefully be good for another 10 years (or until some knucklehead crashes into it while fiddling with his center console touch screen computer)

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by PiMuNu on Friday May 24 2019, @03:56PM (1 child)

        by PiMuNu (3823) on Friday May 24 2019, @03:56PM (#847130)

        Agree on all points. But there is, at least, some legal provision.

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Friday May 24 2019, @04:36PM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday May 24 2019, @04:36PM (#847156)

          Like so many EU directives, I think the GDPR is actually a pretty good start, and would not be at all disappointed if the US followed suit or even (gasp) harmonized and adopted the regulation for use in the US. I think, realistically, the US would sooner turn the official color of the stars on the flag to yellow, but... US adoption of the GDPR wouldn't be a bad thing, if it did not also trigger the freezing over of hell.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Friday May 24 2019, @06:09PM (1 child)

        by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 24 2019, @06:09PM (#847244)

        In one of those 27 pages of signatures collected by a car dealer upon sale of a vehicle, I'm sure this is covered.

        Things might get complicated when the car is sold on, second hand. Will the manufacturer or original dealer know to stop collecting data, or can they make the first owner liable for their infraction of subsequent owners' rights in those 27 pages?

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday May 24 2019, @07:12PM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday May 24 2019, @07:12PM (#847296)

          Will the manufacturer or original dealer know to stop collecting data, or can they make the first owner liable for their infraction of subsequent owners' rights in those 27 pages?

          One of many details which will get overlooked until some German with too much time on his hands decides to make a court case of it.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Alfred on Friday May 24 2019, @01:45PM (2 children)

    by Alfred (4006) on Friday May 24 2019, @01:45PM (#847055) Journal
    I feel like there is a good car analogy here just waiting to be made.
    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday May 24 2019, @04:39PM (1 child)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday May 24 2019, @04:39PM (#847158)

      Self referential analogy anomaly alert, infinite loop detected, singularity imminent, please reduce effort or risk self annihilation.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 3, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Friday May 24 2019, @04:41PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday May 24 2019, @04:41PM (#847159)

        Auto-referential analogy anomaly alert.

        Infinite loop detected, singularity imminent.

        Please reduce effort or risk self annihilation.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @02:16PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @02:16PM (#847073)

    My car reports when my passenger is giving me a hummer?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @03:53PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @03:53PM (#847126)

      Your car data indicated that there were no passengers in the car, but the drivers seat sensor shows a rhythmic bouncing motion for a duration of 38 minutes.

    • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Friday May 24 2019, @06:14PM

      by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 24 2019, @06:14PM (#847255)

      It'll also tell you if you've blown your big end.

    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Friday May 24 2019, @11:39PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 24 2019, @11:39PM (#847415)

      More practical problem will be you'll get a ticket from the government for polluting (the "rolling coal" laws) for a car you sold to someone else five years ago because the car knows spark plug #3 is misfiring and it reported up to corporate HQ who tattled to your local PD.

      In general, resale of IOT devices is an interesting problem to think about. I gave my wife my old "clip" fitbit when she broke hers, was a huge PITA to get it off my account and onto hers. Survivable, yes, but I'm "smart computer guy" and this is a much simpler task than Big Brother monitoring every detail of your car. For your average idiots, management of spy data will be non-trivial.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by bob_super on Friday May 24 2019, @05:11PM (2 children)

    by bob_super (1357) on Friday May 24 2019, @05:11PM (#847175)

    > Who owns that data ?

    Did you read the 400-page EULA that the dealer forklifted into your trunk when they took off the shrinkwrap ?
    It says the US-based operations of the manufacturer of you car has all rights to all you, and your successors' data in perpetuity, any time you are within collection range of the car, and they might be nice with it, usually only sharing it with people who they do business with.

    Honestly, I didn't actually read it (I also have a dumb car which can't collect anything). But I know for a fact that's what it says. Because US companies and lawyers.

    Kicker : The app morons use on their phones to remotely do useless stuff with their car ? Same thing, extended to the vicinity of the car, the phone, and all data contained therein.

    • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Friday May 24 2019, @09:59PM (1 child)

      by krishnoid (1156) on Friday May 24 2019, @09:59PM (#847376)

      That's some heavy paper, considering 400 pages is less than a ream. Or maybe they make forklifts that size! That would be so cute.

      • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday May 24 2019, @10:07PM

        by bob_super (1357) on Friday May 24 2019, @10:07PM (#847379)

        It was 4000 in my head, but as we all know, the only known limit to EULA length is the cost of lawyers ...

  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday May 24 2019, @05:22PM

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday May 24 2019, @05:22PM (#847185) Journal

    The owner of the vehicle, unless it is used in public transportation, then it should be public. Here's looking at you, Uber drivers...

    --
    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @05:37PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @05:37PM (#847206)

    Whoever can read the data, owns them. Stop asking stupid manipulative questions, sleazy journalists.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @08:28PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 24 2019, @08:28PM (#847339)

    this is why we need to demand open autos.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_car [wikipedia.org]

  • (Score: 2) by VLM on Friday May 24 2019, @11:44PM (1 child)

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 24 2019, @11:44PM (#847417)

    New cars collect and report hundreds of gigabytes of data per day.

    The future is always distributed unevenly.

    New Tesla, sure, probably worse, in fact. My still kinda new couple year old Yaris, no, not so much. Much like the EPA forces disclosure of MPG and whatnot, it might be interesting to have a disclosure for car privacy.

    I have OBD-II and I own a scanner showing nothing terribly interesting is available. I also have the cheapest entertainment system imaginable, yet being simple its easy to use, essentially my car is a giant gas powered bluetooth speaker and not a heck of a lot more. I know there's a lot of cars with a lot of installed spyware out there, but I don't know a clearinghouse of that information or any standard of reporting.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 25 2019, @12:03AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 25 2019, @12:03AM (#847426)

      That $15 OBD-II scanner you got from amazon or ebay or even the expensive one from Snap-On does not retrieve the black box data that only the dealer/manufacturer can retrieve.

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