from the one-kid's-drink-is-another-kid's-poison dept.
China's CRISPR Babies Could Face Earlier Death
When the Chinese scientist He Jiankui created the first gene-edited children, he dreamed of improving the world. He believed the genetic alteration he added to twin girls born last year would protect them from HIV. Human embryo editing, he said, would bring new hope to millions.
Instead, he may have put the twins at risk of an early death.
A new report finds that genetic mutations similar to those He created, to a gene called CCR5, shortens people's lives by an average of 1.9 years.
[...] Now, Nielsen and colleague Xinzhu Wei say they've proved that inheriting two broken copies of CCR5 is bad for you. Their report, published in Nature Medicine, describes how they studied the genetic makeup of thousands of middle-aged members of the UK Biobank. The first thing they noticed was that the number of volunteers in the database with the double mutation was appreciably smaller than expected by chance.
"That tells us there is a process that removes individuals with two copies, and that process is probably natural selection. People die," Nielsen says. For those with the mutation who did volunteer for the database, the bad luck continued. When Nielsen compared volunteers' DNA with death records, he found that those with two non-working CCR5 genes had a higher mortality rate.
Related Stories
Russian biologist plans more CRISPR-edited babies
A Russian scientist says he is planning to produce gene-edited babies, an act that would make him only the second person known to have done this. It would also fly in the face of the scientific consensus that such experiments should be banned until an international ethical framework has agreed on the circumstances and safety measures that would justify them.
Molecular biologist Denis Rebrikov has told Nature he is considering implanting gene-edited embryos into women, possibly before the end of the year if he can get approval by then. Chinese scientist He Jiankui prompted an international outcry when he announced last November that he had made the world's first gene-edited babies — twin girls.
The experiment will target the same gene, called CCR5, that He did, but Rebrikov claims his technique will offer greater benefits, pose fewer risks and be more ethically justifiable and acceptable to the public. Rebrikov plans to disable the gene, which encodes a protein that allows HIV to enter cells, in embryos that will be implanted into HIV-positive mothers, reducing the risk of them passing on the virus to the baby in utero. By contrast, He modified the gene in embryos created from fathers with HIV, which many geneticists said provided little clinical benefit because the risk of a father passing on HIV to his children is minimal.
[...] "The technology is not ready," says Jennifer Doudna, a University of California Berkeley molecular biologist who pioneered the CRISPR-Cas9 genome-editing system that Rebrikov plans to use. "It is not surprising, but it is very disappointing and unsettling."
Alta Charo, a researcher in bioethics and law at the University of Wisconsin-Madison says Rebrikov's plans are not an ethical use of the technology. "It is irresponsible to proceed with this protocol at this time," adds Charo, who sits on a World Health Organization committee that is formulating ethical governance policies for human genome editing.
Third time's the charm? I guess they won't pick a genetic disease to target instead since preimplantation genetic diagnosis can already handle that. Others will have to resort to gene therapy after the child is born.
Previously: Chinese Scientist Claims to Have Created the First Genome-Edited Babies (Twins)
Furor Over Genome-Edited Babies Claim Continues (Updated)
Chinese Gene-Editing Scientist's Project Rejected for WHO Database (Plus: He Jiankui is Missing)
Chinese Scientist Who Allegedly Created the First Genome-Edited Babies is Reportedly Being Detained
China Confirms That He Jiankui Illegally Edited Human Embryo Genomes
China's CRISPR Babies Could Face Earlier Death
Related: HIV Reportedly Cured In A Second Patient
CRISPR scientist who made gene-edited babies sentenced to 3 years in prison:
The scientist who claimed to have created the first gene-edited human babies was fined around $430,000 and sentenced to three years in prison by a Chinese court on Monday, according to Chinese state media. He Jiankui was reportedly convicted of conducting an "illegal medical practice."
A court in Shenzhen reportedly found He, along with two colleagues, violated Chinese regulations and ethics by editing twin embryos' DNA. Authorities also found his team fabricated regulatory paperwork, according to state news agency Xinhua. He and his colleagues reportedly pleaded guilty to the charges.
He was condemned by the scientific community for using the gene-editing technology CRISPR to alter the gene CCR5, which HIV utilizes when infecting humans.
Previously:
One of CRISPR's Inventors Calls for Controls on Gene-Editing Technology
Russian Biologist Plans to Pursue CRISPR-Edited Babies Targeting Same Gene (CCR5) as He Jiankui Did
China's CRISPR Babies Could Face Earlier Death
China Confirms That He Jiankui Illegally Edited Human Embryo Genomes
Chinese Scientist Who Allegedly Created the First Genome-Edited Babies is Reportedly Being Detained
Chinese Gene-Editing Scientist's Project Rejected for WHO Database (Plus: He Jiankui is Missing)
Furor Over Genome-Edited Babies Claim Continues (Updated)
Chinese Scientist Claims to Have Created the First Genome-Edited Babies (Twins)
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 04 2019, @06:24PM (1 child)
Medical research just lets you prove whatever you want at this point.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 04 2019, @10:04PM
Jiankui forgot to seek approval from his overlords, and wanted fame and prestige from the Western press and scientific community. Now he has to endure every two-bit analysis thrown his away. Assuming his captors even allow him to read them.
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(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 04 2019, @06:25PM (10 children)
So what will they die of? The cumulative effects of air pollution? Melamine in their rice flour? Electrocution by a slipshod installation? Or a PLA bullet?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by krishnoid on Tuesday June 04 2019, @07:23PM (8 children)
I think they'll engineer them into super-soldiers. They get more bang for the buck out of their military dollar, fewer years of long-term medical care costs on the back end, even less if they die on the battlefield -- win-win all around.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:15PM (7 children)
> they'll engineer them into super-soldiers
I know the Chinese are quietly spreading their tentacles all over Africa, where the infection rates are locally scary, but I still think that "resistant to HIV" isn't the best supersoldier power.
Can't wait for Disney/Marvel to wrestle aidsman copyright from San Fernando Valley !
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:33PM (3 children)
Maybe you forgot how rape is used as a weapon of war and part of the spoils for soldiers.
Yeah, still not the best. We'll need to see a nice package of gene edits for supersoldiers.
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(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:45PM (2 children)
You still probably wouldn't start with a slow disease that is not incapacitating until pretty late, and can save you massive VA costs.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 05 2019, @12:20AM (1 child)
Your men and women can equally homogenize with the local population and out-breed them thanks to your resistance to the worst local diseases, you might. China has had many bloody wars, but it has also had plenty of 'colonization' activity to take over areas then claim it was always theirs. This will help play into that narrative as chinese interbreed with africans, first resistant to HIV, then Malaria, then Ebola, then who knows what else. With each successive generation of edits they become just a little better until all of Africa is at lest a fraction Chinese. Then the Glorious Party can tell it's foreign born and foreign raised vassals what will happen to their extended families back in China if they don't do as they are asked and vote the party into power in their new countries as well.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday June 05 2019, @12:26AM
KISS : Valdimir just gives Russian passports to anybody living in the desired place.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 04 2019, @10:55PM (2 children)
You forgot that Chinamen don't like sleeping with African women.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 04 2019, @10:57PM
Those disposable Chinese incels will learn to like ebony booty.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday June 04 2019, @10:59PM
Given the "imbalance" of 100 million Chinese girls, an army of young Chinamen will jump on any opportunity to bang anything with a pulse while abroad.
(Score: 3, Funny) by takyon on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:42PM
They'll die from being kidnapped and turned into traditional Chinese medicine.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 04 2019, @06:36PM (1 child)
wait wait wait ... did i get this right: if you got two broken CCR5 you're immune to AIDS? if so the question why they're statistically less of them
in the volunteer gen-map database is easily answered: they're busy ... exploring sex without condoms ^_^
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:41PM
"Immune" is a strong word. You're looking for #Resist.
Also, Hashtag-Resist people who try to regulate genetic engineering and delay progress.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 04 2019, @06:42PM (5 children)
Ever since blade runner. Now those babies will grow up and hunt down He JianKui for giving them a short life meanwhile themselves being hunted by Harrison Ford.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday June 04 2019, @07:51PM (4 children)
Given that by the time these kids are 17 or so, Harrison Ford will be in his 90s. As such, I suspect that as long as they can run faster than a guy with a walker (or a wheel chair), that won't be much of a problem.
How's that for the plot of "Blade Runner 2035"?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 04 2019, @10:54PM (1 child)
Walker/wheelchair with lasers.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday June 04 2019, @11:06PM
There. FTFY.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Tuesday June 04 2019, @11:51PM (1 child)
Or even Indiana Jones 5 [youtu.be]? (This video was originally distributed as a Flash animation; it even had a 'Loading' screen.) He's getting up there.
(Score: 2) by J_Darnley on Wednesday June 05 2019, @10:11AM
> This video was originally distributed as a Flash animation
Then why are you linking to a low-quality rasterisation?
(Score: 3, Touché) by DannyB on Tuesday June 04 2019, @06:57PM (1 child)
Living long enough to participate in the clone wars is sufficient.
Working as intended. Won't fix.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:40PM
Max lifespan will take a bit of a dive after the dust settles and the remaining people are picking each other off with tranq darts (for capture/rape), AR-15s, sniper rifles, grenades, etc.
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(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 04 2019, @07:15PM (6 children)
Couldn't they massage the data into anything scarier than THAT?
Pathetic, really.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Tuesday June 04 2019, @07:19PM (5 children)
How about "average of almost 2 years"? That's at least a little bit scarier.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday June 04 2019, @08:58PM
Thanks. Now I'm hiding under my desk.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:02PM (3 children)
Give up 2 years of old and decrepit in some uncertain future, in exchange for living one's youth immune from The Big Bad STD? People easily give more for much less.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:31PM (2 children)
Next we'll see reporting that "Oh, the gene-edited babies already have AIDS".
But it all doesn't matter. If these kids live to be just 50 (year 2068), they could see an HIV/AIDS cure and life extension.
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(Score: 2) by Username on Tuesday June 04 2019, @10:30PM (1 child)
That is the problem with typhoid marys. They are immune to the diseases and carry it infecting others who are at risk. Do we lock them up for being immune? Create a country just for them? It also makes me wonder how people that are anti-antivax and anti-designerbaby reconcile their beliefs.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 04 2019, @10:38PM
HIV isn't airborne (yet). Just give them steel underpants and a Bane-style mask.
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(Score: 2, Funny) by krishnoid on Tuesday June 04 2019, @07:18PM (7 children)
The good of the many outweigh the good of the few, right? Live less and CRISPR.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday June 04 2019, @08:29PM (3 children)
The greed of the 1% outweigh the needs of the few. Live it up and procreate crispier.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:25PM (2 children)
Procreation is for poor losers. Future babies will be created from scratch. The gene editing will be done on a computer.
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(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:51PM
The eternal conflict will remain.
Vi or Emacs
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday June 04 2019, @10:08PM
I mentioned it in a reply to you in the recent past, but have you read anything in C.J. Cherryh's [wikipedia.org] Alliance-Union [wikipedia.org] series? Im thinking about Cyteen [wikipedia.org] in particular.
There are all sorts of issues that such technology raises. Who owns the "IP" that corresponds to a particular DNA profile? What would be the status of sentient beings created not to be the offspring of one or more individuals, but those created for specific functions/tasks.
As we previously discussed (I can't find the comment ATM, but we were discussing the viability of fetuses and the technology to grow fetuses in artificial wombs), I think this isn't anything that will become relevant until long after we're both dead, but it does raise interesting technological and ethical issues.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:24PM (2 children)
These are just the teething pains of genetic engineering.
We have a lone guy making a small gene edit, using an outdated and soon to be obsolete technique, to "prevent" a disease that is manageable and will probably be cured in the babies' lifetimes anyway.
Several Western scientists were aware of what He Jiankui was doing. Maybe Jiankui was allowed to continue unmolested just to force a debate that will clamp down on the field. Or not. If it wasn't for Jiankui, they would have found somebody else to nail to the wall within the next few years.
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(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 05 2019, @12:54PM (1 child)
Only if the clamp can be universally applied. Else the places outside the clamp will become the new authorities on the field.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday June 05 2019, @01:36PM
The authorities in the field may have to go underground. China has been viewed as the wild west of this kind of research, and it has a lot of money and scientific ambition. They may only be trying to give the appearance of reining things in, but that remains to be seen. Stuff like this [vox.com] does make it seem like they don't give a fuck.
What will probably happen is that people will take a step back and focus their efforts on everything short of creating a gene-edited human baby. Work on software that can simulate the effects of gene edits would be extremely valuable. Creating an artificial womb would make this research much easier. The gene editing techniques could see lots of improvements, and synthetic embryos could be used as a way of mitigating problems with off-target edits and damage. Maybe just work on primate models that don't get the attention that a human baby would get.
When the science is more mature, it will get commercialized in the form of designer babies for rich parents.
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(Score: 4, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Tuesday June 04 2019, @07:47PM (12 children)
Given that these babies were engineered to be resistant to HIV, this could be a wonderful opportunity to create children destined to be sex workers, who don't need to use condoms, as they have no fear of contracting (and more importantly, spreading) HIV.
Living 1.9 years less is actually an advantage, as by that age they'd wouldn't be very profitable as sex objects, except for the odd geriatric fetishist.
It's a win/win!*
*I really shouldn't have to note that this is satire, but some folks seem to lack satire detectors altogether and live in a perpetual state of Poedom [wikipedia.org].
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:37PM (11 children)
That's only the beginning of the fetishism. Add some salamander genes and maybe you can cut off their limbs repeatedly.
Unfortunately, the STIs will just evolve to adapt to any resistance mechanisms, so finding The Cure is better.
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(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday June 04 2019, @09:52PM (10 children)
The Cure [wikipedia.org] are better left back in the 80s, IMHO. :)
More seriously, the implications (as you point out) are endless and serious.
Although I was attempting to be (mildly) humorous, history (and current events) tells us that when technology can be use to exploit people, such exploitation will progress unless and until we check such activities. For example, the workers' rights movement in early 20th century US (eventually) forced employers to pay minimum wages, stop using child labor, limit working hours, etc., etc., etc.
The exploitative potential of using CRISPR on humans is (IMHO) orders of magnitude more impactful. But technology is neither good nor evil, and there are many possible positive outcomes as well. I suspect we'll end up (as we usually do) with a mixed bag.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 04 2019, @10:16PM (4 children)
The parents will decide the outcome of this battle. The same UK Biobank mentioned in TFS, along with other databases, will be used to systematically identify genes related to height, athleticism, attractiveness, intelligence, etc. Even if the cumulative effects are small, put hundreds of such changes together and you could have an elite-as-heck altered offspring. Parents will pay $100,000 or more to get these edits along with IVF services or better yet, an artificial womb birth. If they get a dud due to off-target inaccuracies, they will abort or try again. You can't stop these parents. They will just use underground or foreign services to get what they want if you ban them. After successful birth comes the helicopter parenting to craft the offspring into a movie star, sportsball player, Nobel Prize winner, Instagram thot, whatever.
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(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday June 04 2019, @10:23PM (3 children)
I'd be interested to hear a parent's reasoning behind grooming their child to be an "Instagram THOT."
Personally, I'd prefer to raise my child to be a more well-rounded THOT.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 04 2019, @10:36PM (2 children)
Yeah, that's a good point. Maybe a VR THOT instead.
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(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Wednesday June 05 2019, @01:37AM (1 child)
isn't that all deep faked already, so doesn't even need a 'real' person?
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday June 05 2019, @05:47AM
Nope. You can't fake genuine THOT. There's a special talent to it, friend.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by khallow on Wednesday June 05 2019, @12:45PM (4 children)
Why didn't the workers' rights movement do so in 1000 AD or 0 AD? There's a lot missing from the above narrative - such as wealth that can support those benefits and worker power to get them. It's a relevant distinction today because too many people think it's merely a matter of passing the right laws to force employers to give it up while never thinking about why this situation has gotten worse since the good old days, despite much passing of the previously mentioned laws.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday June 05 2019, @03:21PM (3 children)
Really? Are you that ignorant of history that I need to explain to you the industrial revolution and the move from agrarian economies to industrial ones, with the massive shifts in work from farming and crafts to manufacturing?
You're just trolling. Go bother someone who cares, jackass.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 05 2019, @11:48PM (2 children)
And that matters why? Improvements in workers' rights didn't cause the transition to manufacturing, for example.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 06 2019, @03:30AM (1 child)
Exactly. It's not like the transition to industrialization/manufacturing came *before* the anti-freedom, worker violence (never the job-creators, they are men of peace), pinko "worker's rights" thievery that nearly destroyed this country.
The real problem was that the freedom-hating, liberty-destroying scum abolished slavery. That destroyed more wealth than any event in history.
There was never a reason for that. Since time immemorial, slavery was a normal, positive economic impact on societies.
Even then, the honest, caring people of the US didn't react appropriately. They gave the property, that was stolen from hard-working Americans, schools, freedom of movement and (assuming they could prove they were worthy) even the political franchise. What a huge mistake, and the biggest wealth redistribution ever!
And look what that got us. 150 years of crime, violence, and mayhem. Not to mention BBC videos. Ugh!
Had we chosen the path of freedom and liberty, and followed the will of our almighty creator, "worker's rights" wouldn't even be a phrase ever used -- the rightfully owned slaves would be working the fields, factories, kitchens, battlefields and all manner of other workplaces. The decent people wouldn't need to worry about "wages," as slaves need only enough food to keep them alive until they're 40 or so.
You are so smart, Khallow. I wish I could be as smart, magnanimous and kind as you are. But I'm just not as good as you are. I know you have no reason to do anything for me, but if I could ask you to please impregnate my wife and daughters, it would improve the genetic line of my family immensely.
Thank you!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 06 2019, @09:47AM
Well, yea. If one looks at history, one sees thousands of years of "anti-freedom, worker violence". One should look at what changed rather than what remained the same.
The people for whom that would have been a problem have been dead for more than a century. I'm just not interested in the next few paragraphs. Even the slave owner would have to acknowledge that modern machinery under the control of willing, skilled workers does vastly more than factories or farms of slaves.
I suggest starting by stopping with the straw men. I have never advocated a return to slavery. As usual, it's just someone's imagination wasting time.
What keeps getting missed over and over again is that worker power comes from the workers' ability to generate things of considerable value. Technology and economic infrastructure has been a huge driver of such things. That's why we have thousands of years of terrible work conditions which only got better when peoples' labor became vastly more valuable due to things like automation or the ability to make products for markets across the globe. Even today, that trend still continues.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 05 2019, @04:53AM
The score after 10 minutes is 1-0 to CRISPR. Let's see how HIV can respond. They're coming into the game with an excellent track record of trashing you weak humans.