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posted by janrinok on Thursday June 13 2019, @07:12PM   Printer-friendly
from the would-totally-not-happen dept.

The UK Home Secretary Sajid Javid has signed off on the extradition of Julian Assange to the United States, reports El Reg.

Javid's certifying of the US extradition request lodged this week is the first formal step in having Assange sent across the pond. The next phase is tomorrow, when Belmarsh Magistrates' Court will set a date for a full extradition hearing. After that, assuming a district judge (full-time professional magistrate) OKs the extradition, Javid himself will make the final decision on whether or not to send the one-time chief WikiLeaker to America, as UK.gov's website explains. It is almost certain Assange will file an appeal to the High Court after the district judge's ruling, and again (as the law allows) after the Home Secretary's final decision.

In the US, Assange will face charges of violating espionage law.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @07:50PM (39 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @07:50PM (#855261)

    Welcome to Clown World, where you are charged with violating shit outside of the jurisdction. So if I take a dump in my toilet I can expect to be extradited to India because shitting in toilet is against the law there? If I help a person who was hit by a car I'm going to get extradited to China, and have my organs forcefully "donated" while I'm still alive? We are not people, we are property.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by srobert on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:16PM (11 children)

      by srobert (4803) on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:16PM (#855267)

      And in Saudi, they execute people for blasphemy, Goddammit!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:45PM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:45PM (#855301)

        Wrong god.

        So you are safe.

        Just don't go calling Muhammad a pantywaste.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:32PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:32PM (#855318)

          Wrong god.

          Actually, They are the same imaginary sky daddy [wikipedia.org].

          If you want to get away from that, repeat after me:
          Hooray for the Sun god!
          He sure is a fun god!
          Ra! Ra! Ra!

          • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:11AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:11AM (#855387)

            Wow Wikipedia sure proved your point!

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:54AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:54AM (#855392)

              Ra! Ra! Ra!

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @11:14AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @11:14AM (#855476)

            Quick save if you acidentally say: "Jesus, is the son of god", correct to "I meant Jesus is the sun-shine of God! Mohammad was a much greater profet". Quickly change the topic to "Have you heard that some crazies believe in a Spaghetti Monster?". Oh, yea humans are crazy right?. Hahha. Then you're back to being friends and eating spaghetti.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @01:45AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @01:45AM (#855381)

          Pantywaste: poopoo

          Pantywaist: pansy bear

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:58PM (4 children)

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:58PM (#855304) Journal

        It needs to be a crime in both nations.
        And, we need to have an extradition treaty with that nation.

        Since NONE of your or the ACs examples meet those criteria all your "what-ifs" are a bunch of nonsense.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @06:27AM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @06:27AM (#855424)

          And are there no blasphemy laws anywhere in the USA?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:39PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:39PM (#855565)

            Nope. Not a one.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @03:18PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @03:18PM (#855604)
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @03:46PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @03:46PM (#855618)

                If a law has been voided and is unenforceable, even if it has not been explicitly expunged, it no longer has the force of law. As such, it is not, in fact, a law at all.

                The US Constitution explicitly bars such laws (via the First Amendment) and extends that bar to the several states (via the Fourteenth Amendment). The passage of the Fourteenth Amendment voided all blasphemy statutes (as well as *any* statute that contradicts the US Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land) throughout the US. Any such laws still on the books are artifacts, unenforceable and void.

                More recently, many US states also have laws either barring same-sex marriage or defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman. The US Supreme Court's 2015 ruling in Obergfell v. Hodges [wikipedia.org] made same-sex marriage legal throughout the United States.

                While the numerous state laws barring such unions are still on the books, they are likewise unenforceable artifacts, void of the force of law.

                Sorry, friend. Nice try. You'll do better next time, I'm sure.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:17PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:17PM (#855268)

      extradited to China, and have my organs forcefully "donated"

      Why go to China when you can get the same [youtube.com] *and* have bangers and mash? UK FTW!

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:25PM (12 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:25PM (#855272)

      Also in Clown World, Assange will never be extradited to USA! Only conspiracy theorists believe that! Never be extradited to USA! He'll just serve some time in UK for running out on bail and maybe another year in Sweden for rape! He would be a free man by now if he'd just owned up and let himself be arrested in the frist place!

      Extradition of Assange to US Signed Off

      *trollface*

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:36PM (7 children)

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:36PM (#855296) Journal

        If he committed a crime against the US government then indicting him and extraditing him for trial is called DUE PROCESS. Of course he was going to be extradited if charged, that's how it works!

        The Obama admin policy was to not indict him because they felt he was protected by the first ammendment. Trump differs, apparently.

        What was never going to happen was summary execution of going directly to Gitmo or whatever other conspiracy theory nonsense people around here were spouting.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:42PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:42PM (#855327)

          Never say never.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @11:02PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @11:02PM (#855341)

          What was never going to happen was summary execution of going directly to Gitmo or whatever other conspiracy theory nonsense people around here were spouting.

          Just like how all the "conspiracy theory nonsense people" were of their rocker when they said that the charges against him by Sweden were just an excuse to get him to the US.

          I just find it interesting how the goalposts keep moving. First it was that he had nothing to fear from the US and the arrest warrant was because Sweden was interested in him (and don't pay too much attention because he is an EVIL RAPIST... allegedly). Then when the secret extradition request was leaked due to the technical mistake, it was "not a big deal." Now we are taking solace in that it's "DUE PROCESS."

          So what would need to happen to make this seem bad to the apologists? What if was given a show-trial in a kangaroo court? In a closed-door military tribunal? Sent to a secret prison "for his own safety given his high profile status?" Kept in solitary confinement? Waterboarded? Executed?

          Exactly at what point is it, "this has gone too far?"

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @12:05AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @12:05AM (#855355)

            So what would need to happen to make this seem bad to the apologists?

            It would need to happen to them.

            What if was given a show-trial in a kangaroo court? In a closed-door military tribunal? Sent to a secret prison "for his own safety given his high profile status?" Kept in solitary confinement? Waterboarded? Executed?

            Exactly at what point is it, "this has gone too far?"

            It has gone too far only when it happens to them. So long as it's happening to someone else they have no problem with whatever it is that's happening.

            • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday June 14 2019, @03:17PM

              by tangomargarine (667) on Friday June 14 2019, @03:17PM (#855603)

              First they came for the Communists

              --
              "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @03:11AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @03:11AM (#855398)

          Horse shit. Time to admit the US is fucked up. Due process is a fiction, justice is a fiction, and it has been the same for millenia. The US was founded on the believable lie of freedom. The country was so large that malcontents could spread out, but now that relief valve is shut tight and the farce is finally being exposed.

          The saving grace? The lie was so well propagated that many people believe it. So will we continue down the path of imperialism? Or will the US stand up for real freedom, real democracy?

          • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @03:22AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @03:22AM (#855400)

            Time to admit the US is fucked up. Due process is a fiction, justice is a fiction, and it has been the same for millenia.

            You said it, brother! All those sham trials back in the third and fourth centuries is a blemish that the US court system can't erase.

            And don't forget all the horrible, unforgivable, prosecutorial abuses of US state and local prosecutors in the 11th and 12th centuries.

            It's amazing that after all this time anyone believes the US can have justice.

            Then again, there's at least one person (that'd be you) that thinks the US has existed for millenia, so who am I to judge?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 16 2019, @08:31AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 16 2019, @08:31AM (#856204)

              He was implying the prosecutorial injustices have been going on since the beginning of recorded history, and the only reason it took so long for it to be so obvious in the US is because there was plenty of space for the European colonists and settlers to spread out into, bringing 'civilization', and how said civilization due to being spread so thin, provided a believable veneer of freedom to the average person who had lots of room to struggle with hard work, or lies, cheating and stealing to eventually prosper. Now that America has reached its possible 'colonial' bounds, and had time to infill in all the most livable parts of the country, now the oppression is clamping down, just like it once did in Europe, China, and other 'civilized' parts of the world, where prosperity brought with it unyielding authoritarianism.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Mykl on Thursday June 13 2019, @11:21PM (2 children)

        by Mykl (1112) on Thursday June 13 2019, @11:21PM (#855343)

        Only conspiracy theorists believe that! Never be extradited to USA!

        To all of those naysayers over the last many years - I FUCKING TOLD YOU SO.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @04:27AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @04:27AM (#855411)

          Have to admit it was brilliant planning on the part of the lizard people. We'll be arguing about whether the R team (because sitting president) or D team (because they apparently can't just drone him) are the bad guys all 2020 long.

          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 14 2019, @12:33PM

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday June 14 2019, @12:33PM (#855498) Journal

            It's a great exploit of the innate human tendency to tribalism.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:36PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:36PM (#855561)

        sorry to bug into thread, but assange should have hid inside a micro$oft data center. stuff in m$ overseas datacenters never gets extradited ^_^

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:46PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:46PM (#855280)

      Jurisdiction refers to a court's legal authority to operate, not geography. The law generally does not respect citizenship, except in cases of diplomatic immunity (and I'm happy to be corrected). The Espionage Act, 18 US 793 (c) [cornell.edu] states it is a crime to receive classified information. 18 USC 793 (g) states that any conspiracy where one person acts in furtherance of it makes all conspirators guilty. All they need to is convince the UK that this is a crime under both British and US law to extradite the person. It takes the crime and the authority of the court over that crime, not geography, to make a case.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:30PM (8 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:30PM (#855293) Journal

      So if I want to murder you all I have to do is shoot you from international waters and it's totally not a crime! Good to know!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:33PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:33PM (#855295)

        Hmmm ... might you be interested in booking a boat rental? We may be able to accommodate your long-range "accessory" needs.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Pav on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:08PM

        by Pav (114) on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:08PM (#855308)

        ...because dubious and very local laws are totally the same as laws that apply universally and internationally.

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:49PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:49PM (#855334)

        I live on the shore, if you can shoot me from 12 miles out you deserve to walk, you would be quite possibly the best shot ever.

        For some reference material: https://www.dailywire.com/news/17891/canadian-sniper-sets-record-longest-kill-shot-ever-hank-berrien [dailywire.com]

        • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:57PM (1 child)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:57PM (#855340) Journal

          MS-13 is interested in this novel theory on jurisdiction. There's a few Americans they would like to kill and they're pretty stoked that it's legal so long as they are standing in Mexico and the victim is standing in the US.

          • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @04:45AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @04:45AM (#855414)

            Holy fucking shit! Here it is, folks, here it fucking is!

            Xenophobic jibberish out of a member of a political party that pretends to be progressive!

            "It can't happen here! It can't happen here!" Bullshit. It is happening here (with apologies to the person who called it).

            Hmm, if Germany, expect the SPD to be outlawed, mmm, I'm going with 2021 for this one. And the NSDAP will rejoice, for their Führer is come!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @11:09PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @11:09PM (#855342)
          It's a minor technical problem. Besides, HAMAS has already solved it.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @04:37AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @04:37AM (#855413)

        Journalism is the equivalent of shooting people in Clown World. Top kek.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by shortscreen on Friday June 14 2019, @06:48AM

        by shortscreen (2252) on Friday June 14 2019, @06:48AM (#855426) Journal

        That depends, are you part of the US government? If so, then you can shoot anyone you want, mark the evidence as classified, and have anyone who publishes that evidence after it has been leaked extradited to stand trial for espionage.

    • (Score: 2) by coolgopher on Friday June 14 2019, @01:35AM (1 child)

      by coolgopher (1157) on Friday June 14 2019, @01:35AM (#855378)

      Well this is gonna be one f*cked up kangaroo court then. I guess you guys are still running Gitmo? But hey, if you want to treat the man even worse, sentence him for terrorism, get his native country to strip him of his citizenship (yeah, we do that shit), and then send him back on a boat so he ends up in the detention centre on Manus Island instead...

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @03:07AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @03:07AM (#855396)

        If convicted, Assange will end up in one of these locations [bop.gov].

        Once there, he won't have to worry about whether anyone uses condoms or not.

        Maybe he should stock up on these [wsj.com].

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @05:32PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @05:32PM (#855660)

      ...We are not people, we are property.

      Charles Fort, is that you?

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by tangomargarine on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:35PM (33 children)

    by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:35PM (#855277)

    Just thinking about it, I can already hear people's heads exploding.

    Not that that will ever happen, sadly.

    --

    What are they even going to be charging him with, anyway? He wasn't the guy who stole the information, WikiLeaks isn't hosted in the U.S., and he's not even a U.S. citizen. So why exactly does the U.S. have any jurisdiction to charge him with anything?

    Moreover, some Snowden documents published in 2014 show that the United States government put Assange on the "2010 Manhunting Timeline",[178] and in the same period they urged their allies to open criminal investigations into the editor-in-chief of WikiLeaks.[179] In the same documents there was a proposal by the National Security Agency (NSA) to designate WikiLeaks as a "malicious foreign actor", thus increasing the surveillance against it.[180]

    So basically they're admitting that they don't have jurisdiction. Sounds like theater to convince the public that he's a dirty terrorist and deserves to be taken out back and shot...after a fair and legal trial, of course.

    If they were being honest about the whole thing, they would've figured out a way to just drone the guy in the street (or maybe they wanted to, just didn't get it together before he ducked into the Ecuadorian embassy). But that would make them look bad. Instead, they have to publicly punish the guy for having the gall to try to force some transparency into government.

    The Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, said that Assange is "not going to be given special treatment ... It has got nothing to do with" Australia, "it is a matter for the US."[328]

    Nice. Guess being an Australian citizen doesn't count for much when your more powerful ally wants his head.

    Judge Michael Snow said Assange was "a narcissist who cannot get beyond his own selfish interest"

    I think that can be said about a lot of people involved in this embarrassment. More concerned about making sure the U.S. doesn't get grumpy at your country than bigger issues.

    --
    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:49PM (11 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:49PM (#855281)

      See the linked comment above. 18 USC 793.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:54PM (10 children)

        by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:54PM (#855284)

        The Espionage Act, 18 US 793 (c) [cornell.edu] states it is a crime to receive classified information. 18 USC 793 (g) states that any conspiracy where one person acts in furtherance of it makes all conspirators guilty. All they need to is convince the UK that this is a crime under both British and US law to extradite the person. It takes the crime and the authority of the court over that crime, not geography, to make a case.

        Assange is an Australian citizen. Why do we give a crap what the U.K. thinks about the matter?

        Although from the Wikipedia article the Australian PM sounds like a spineless twat as well.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:36PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:36PM (#855297)

          Assange is an Australian citizen. Why do we give a crap what the U.K. thinks about the matter?

          Because he is currently in custody in the UK, and soon to be in the grasp of the US rendition team.

        • (Score: 3, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:38PM (5 children)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:38PM (#855298) Journal

          Assange is an Australian citizen. Why do we give a crap what the U.K. thinks about the matter?

          Yet another novel legal theory....

          Committing a crime in the UK, while Australian, gives you immunity.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @04:34AM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @04:34AM (#855412)

            Committing a crime in the UK, while Australian, gives you immunity.

            Correction: committing an American crime while in the UK while Australian means... well, jack squat, really.

            He's not American. He wasn't in the US at the time he embarrassed Americans. Embarrassing the American military wasn't a crime anywhere outside the US at the time he did it. What he did do was show the world Americans committing crimes, so why hasn't something been done about that?

            Oh wait; right: shoot the messenger. It's the way of the rich, powerful, and/or politically connected in the US. It's why whistleblowers get persecuted rather than celebrated.

            • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @10:54AM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @10:54AM (#855470)

              What he did do was show the world Americans committing crimes, so why hasn't something been done about that?

              Because MAGA. That's why, motherfucker!

              Now shut the fuck up and buy more Trump products or we'll tariff your ass to death!

              What are you, from one of those Mexican countries?

              USA! USA! USA!

              #MAGA Trump 2020! Because we're not going to be the world's bitch anymore!*

              *Just Russia and North Korea's. That Putin is so handsome! And he's got a huge cock!

              • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 14 2019, @12:37PM (1 child)

                by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday June 14 2019, @12:37PM (#855500) Journal

                It's not a MAGA issue. This effort to get Assange began under Obama. But that's not to say it's an Obama issue, either. Rather, it's an Establishment/1%/Deep State/UniParty/whatever-label-you-prefer issue that is far above the pay grade of any political party or administration.

                --
                Washington DC delenda est.
                • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @12:53PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @12:53PM (#855513)

                  Why do you hate America?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @05:49PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @05:49PM (#855665)

            Yet another novel legal theory....
            Committing a crime in the UK, while Australian, gives you immunity.

            Fun possible factoid (as it came from an ex-polis, it might be true, but he's a tricky fucker....so who knows)
            Back in the days before ANPR, Aussies used to get off the planes at Heathrow, head to a bunch of car dealers/scrappers helpfully listed in some Aussie guide to the UK, buy a clapped out runner-but-banger for next to nothing, then drive about in it...no tax, MOT, insurance etc.
            The police would stop them, take one look at the Aussie Driving license and/or passport, go 'life's too short..' and let them go on to be SEFP..

            So yes, at one point, being an Aussie gave you a degree of immunity from prosecution for certain classes of crime in the UK.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:55PM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:55PM (#855302) Journal

          Although from the Wikipedia article the Australian PM sounds like a spineless twat as well.

          All Aussie political heads would sound exactly the same.

          For [smh.com.au] reasons [economist.com] (google search china south pacific influence [google.com])

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:06PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:06PM (#855307)

          Because generally in extradition law the crime a person is extradited for must be a crime in both the jurisdiction of prosecution and the jurisdiction where the individual currently is. If conspiracy to commit espionage was not a crime under UK law then the extradition might be nullified on those grounds. A similar, but not quite related, element is where countries without the death penalty will not extradite someone for a crime where the death penalty might apply without reassurance that it will not be applied in such a case. Thus part of the extradition proceeding (dunno if it was this part but I'd guess so) is to establish those facts.

          Happy to assist your fund of knowledge.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday June 14 2019, @01:28AM

          by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <axehandleNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Friday June 14 2019, @01:28AM (#855375)

          ...Although from the Wikipedia article the Australian PM sounds like a spineless twat as well.

          He is, where the US is concerned. He's also trying to raise the art of boot licking to previously unimagined heights.

          --
          It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:53PM (17 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @08:53PM (#855283)

      Whether justified or not, the US Government has made claims that Assange *assisted* in "hacking" US government servers [justice.gov].

      Now, you can argue (and I'm sure Assange's lawyers will do so) that he just received such information rather than assisting in "breaching" systems.

      Do you or I have all the facts? I don't. Are you Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning or one of the Federal prosecutors working this case? If not, then you don't either.

      As an empiricist, I try (not always successfully) not to reach conclusions without enough information to go on. I guess we'll just have to see.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:13PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:13PM (#855286)

        There was no fucking hacking. The person who stole the files had access to them. I seen some loose definitions or hacking, but this one seriously takes the cake. This morning I looked outside the fucking window, and I hacked the fucking sun.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:20PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:20PM (#855289)

          https://gizmodo.com/assange-charges-finally-reveal-why-chelsea-manning-is-s-1833972958 [gizmodo.com]

          Charges made public against Assange indicate that federal prosecutors sought to question her over online discussions in which Assange allegedly aided her in attempting to crack a password that would provide access to Defense Department network used to store classified documents and communications. While Manning already had access to the network, known as SIPRNet, the password would have enabled her to download additional material under a username that was not her own.

          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:56PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:56PM (#855339)

            Yeah I'm sure that's what fucking happened. And they are not making shit up years after the fact. The article you link has a screenshot of a fuckign spreadsheet. That is just the level of proof that is un-fucking-contradictable! I'm surprised he hasn't been executed already!

            • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @11:44PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @11:44PM (#855349)

              AC you're responding to here. I have no idea as to what did or did not happen. Nor do I make any claim one way or the other.

              I posted a news article that gives details of claims made by the US DOJ. Are they true? I don't know and I never said I did.

              And unless you're Chelsea Manning or Julian Assange, neither do you.

              Provide some evidence for your claims if you want to be taken seriously.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @11:17AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @11:17AM (#855478)

            So he recommended Hashcat or John the Ripper or whatever they're called? Oh, shit will I be extradited now?

            • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @12:58PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @12:58PM (#855516)

              I have no idea as to what did or did not happen. Nor do I make any claim one way or the other.

              And neither do you.

              Are you having problems with reading comprehension?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:40PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:40PM (#855299)

          I seen some loose definitions or hacking, but this one seriously takes the cake.

          Sorry, but what appears to be "loose" is your grasp of the facts. The one thing that is not loose is Assange, and that won't change for a number of years (maybe even more years than his self imposed Ecuadorian Embassy incarnation).

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:16PM (9 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:16PM (#855288)

        That as far as I know these are *NEW* charges made up in 2019, because the original charges when he ducked into the Ecuadorian embassy wouldn't have stuck and also wouldn't have been extradictable according to the UK government of the time. Now... 7 years later both the Ecudorian's and the British are rolling over because the US scratched their bellies with political incentives, and threw out a bunch of new charges that are more palatable to the extraditing authorities.

        People need to look close and wake up. Citizenship means shit today, and the only way we will protect each other is to stop pointing our weapons (whether guns, knives, or fists) at our fellow citizen and start pointing them at the government, the merchant princes and aristocracy, and the tools of the regime by way of the law enforcement divisions of our respective countries. They are rarely here to protect us rather than the status quo. If you find ones who are true members of the community, show them some individual respect so far as they continue earning it. But as an institution, show them as little respect as you can get away with under the law.

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:27PM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:27PM (#855292)

          I don't have any evidence, but I'm going to make unsubstantiated claims anyway!

          Government sometimes do unethical and bad things, therefore all laws are repressive!

          Wake up sheeple! If you aren't against all forms of government, you're part of the problem!

          But don't take up arms against the evil gub'mint! Just try to cheat them when you can!

          There's no point in trying to strengthen the rule of law. So let's just subvert it more!

          That's it! That's the ticket!

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:31PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:31PM (#855294)

            And soon will come the troll mods, as folks aren't interested in discussing all angles, just in confirming their own beliefs and prejudices.

            Because anyone who doesn't believe the same way must be evildoers who want to enslave them, or puppets of those who do.

            It's not possible to hold contrary positions without being evil and wrong. amirite?

            • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 14 2019, @12:46PM (1 child)

              by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday June 14 2019, @12:46PM (#855506) Journal

              When you come in with apologia for parties that are clearly acting on a vendetta rather than an actual crime, then yes. When you defend a rigged game that is our modern system, then yes.

              You're effectively behaving like a lickspittle in service to Al Capone, who declares that those accusing him of murder are conspiracy theorists right after he has beaten John Scalise to death with a baseball bat.

              --
              Washington DC delenda est.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:00PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:00PM (#855541)

                No. There's no apologia there. The US government has acted shamefully both in the actions revealed by Manning/Wikileaks and the hounding of Assange.

                I'm instead railing against statements which are unsupported by evidence or rational argument. The person I responded to was encouraging armed insurrection and further dilution of the rule of law. Not supporting those things makes me an apologist and a lickspittle? I'm sorry, I haven't seen you on the news getting arrested or shot dead for armed insurrection against the US government.

                By your logic, that makes you a lickspittle apologist too, right?

                What's more, instead of getting cogent, reasoned arguments (or any arguments at all) it's just troll mods and blather [soylentnews.org], as I predicted [soylentnews.org].

                Even *factual* statements [soylentnews.org] as to official statements are shouted down [soylentnews.org] with no evidence, and arguments that boil down to "you're wrong!" even though I just paraphrased the link provided, while *specifically* stating that I could not verify the veracity of the claims made.

                That's not discussion. That's not even advocacy. That's just moronic posturing.

                So if desiring to discuss facts and evidence with reasoned argument makes me a "lickspittle" apologist, then so be it.

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:54PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:54PM (#855338)

            Hello fren [justice.gov], you were sayin'? [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:55PM

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:55PM (#855303) Journal

          That as far as I know these are *NEW* charges made up in 2019, because the original charges when he ducked into the Ecuadorian embassy wouldn't have stuck and also wouldn't have been extradictable according to the UK government of the time.

          He wouldn't have been extraditable under the Obama admin because they never charged him with anything. Their policy was that he was acting as a journalist.

          Now, 7 years later, the "I love Wikileaks" administration decides to charge him for the first time, with an extraditable offense. And, because we have an extradition treaty with the UK, he gets to come here for trial.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @05:20PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @05:20PM (#855657)

          > Citizenship means shit

          As an Aussie who dared leave for more than five years, I came back to basically being a non-citizen, except for my passport....and the right to pay taxes. All they do is insinuate that you only came back to take advantage of Medicare* and social security. So those were denied. Two years of unemployment and then a medical problem that I couldn't get attended. I was back on a plane after that, using the last of my savings. Never again. Fuck that small-minded place.

          * I could have gotten Medicare if I were prepared to sign away my travel rights for five years. Yes, there is a form for that. Disgraceful.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 16 2019, @02:35AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 16 2019, @02:35AM (#856141)

            So in that more than five years that you were out of the country, did you pay any Australian taxes? Did you even file a fucking tax return? Or did you just go back for cheap medical care?
            Medicare is for everyone in Australia, not some whinging OS cunt who doesn't pay his way and then wants to sponge on the system when he gets sick.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:16PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:16PM (#855311)

      RE AU .. The former Foreign Minister and ex-PM (who was also smeared by the leaked US diplomatic cables) felt very differently about Assange ... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11945558 [bbc.com]

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:47PM (1 child)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:47PM (#855331) Journal

      Just thinking about it, I can already hear people's heads exploding.

      My head is exploding because every time this subject comes up the thread is completely flooded with willful ignorance, blatant misinformation and a dash of nonsensical bullshit..

      It's so annoying I'm actually defending the Trump administration.

      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @12:01PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @12:01PM (#855489)

        You're defending the Trump administration because you're right-wing, and you attempt to excuse this fact in your heart by generally supporting the less right-wing and supposedly "progressive" of the two major capitalist parties. (The one also known as the graveyard of progressive movements.) But the fact remains that you are right-wing. You want the world to tend towards inequality, because you believe that will benefit you.

        You are an opportunist like all capitalists who speak in progressive language, rarely take progressive action, and when push comes to shove believe that habeas corpus is perhaps not really always a right, that freedom of the press is nice but something we can't always have, and that concentration camps are ok, because brown people frighten you.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by SemperOSS on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:21PM (4 children)

    by SemperOSS (5072) on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:21PM (#855290)

    All people are equal, but some people are more equal than others.

    When it comes to espionage, the rule seems to be that big countries can spy on everyone (inside and outside own country) with impunity. Some countries can righteously spy on other countries, like USA spying on China, whereas other countries are bad and should not spy on anyone, especially not the righteous ones, like China spying on USA. But individuals can spy on no-one — even when it is not really espionage.

    The United States of America apparently has jurisdiction across the world and can demand information stored in other countries [theguardian.com] from American companies, even when this demand would be illegal in the country where the information is stored. They can arrest people [theguardian.com] for running gambling websites abroad just because they are accessible from the US. And now they try to extradite Julian Assange because he has done something that may or may not be illegal in the US but not illegal in the UK where Mr Assange currently resides at Her Majesty's pleasure.

    Unfortunately, I think that the UK will bend over backwards to placate the US — especially in these Brexit times.


    --
    I don't need a signature to draw attention to myself.
    Maybe I should add a sarcasm warning now and again?
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:45PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @09:45PM (#855300)

      Where to being picking apart your post ... fuck you, I can't. You see, you're not defending Assange's actions. You're denouncing the oppressive and at times tyrannical "do what we say, but not what we do" imperialism practiced by the US and other world powers. People can't play on their stage, because if they do they become collateral damage.

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:05PM (1 child)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:05PM (#855306) Journal

      When it comes to espionage, the rule seems to be that big countries can spy do things on everyone (inside and outside own country) with impunity.

      FTFY.
      Like it or not (I don't), it even has a name: power politics [wikipedia.org]. The Americans prefer to call it realpolitik [wikipedia.org], but the term has different connotations in different cultures.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:51PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:51PM (#855577)

        amerikan realpolitik is a bulldozer with a big rainbow colored sign in the front sayin' "we love frogs!" whilst bulldozing the pond ...

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:14PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:14PM (#855309)

      Fairly certain that conspiracy to commit espionage is a crime in the UK. Wikipedia thinks so, anyway. [wikipedia.org]

      And as above, repeat after me, "Jurisdiction is not geography. Geography is not jurisdiction. Jurisdiction may be limited by geography, but does not have to be."

  • (Score: 4, Funny) by takyon on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:31PM (2 children)

    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:31PM (#855317) Journal

    Maybe she'll assassinate Assange personally.

    --
    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:37PM

      Nah. She has death squads [neonnettle.com] for that.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:39PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:39PM (#855324)

      Yeah, the unpleasantaries of coming, seeing and the other thing all by herself.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:39PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:39PM (#855325)

    They could mate and have traitor babies.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:47PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:47PM (#855332)

      Your country is burning and you are calling firefighter a traitor. Priceless.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:51PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 13 2019, @10:51PM (#855336)

        Get back to work, Hillary.

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by stretch611 on Friday June 14 2019, @01:07AM (8 children)

    by stretch611 (6199) on Friday June 14 2019, @01:07AM (#855369)

    Not going to happen... Unless the current head of the US is an idiot or senile. (Oh, wait...)

    Why would Trump want Assange here in the US? And someone like Attorney General Bob Barr, who covers for said president isn't thinking this one out either.

    While Assange is someone that is not friendly to the democratic party, and is pretty much openly hostile against Obama and the Clintons, he admittedly does love the limelight. How many people here in the US would love to question Assange under oath? I am sure the judge holding the hearings of Roger Stone would love to hear his testimony in court. How many of the still sealed 9 indictments in the court system from the Mueller report have something to do with wikileaks or Julian Assange? Not to mention the earlier indictments against multiple Russians that are out there.

    And then, lets face it... how many democrats in the house of representatives would love to force Assange in front of their committees?

    And with all this testimony, how many landmines would be embedded in all the questions that Trump would not like people to hear answers?

    Obviously, certain people have not figured out how dangerous this can be, or the US would not be looking to extradite Assange.

    --
    Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @03:44AM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @03:44AM (#855401)

      You are assuming Assange will be allowed to remain alive once he starts giving out inconvenient information.

      I would not bet more than you can afford to lose gracefully on this being the case.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @04:21AM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @04:21AM (#855407)

        You are assuming Assange will be allowed to remain alive once he starts giving out inconvenient information.

        I would not bet more than you can afford to lose gracefully on this being the case.

        If I thought you would pay up, I'd take that bet.

        I have no idea how safe he might or might not be in the custody of the Crown [wikipedia.org].

        However, once surrendered to the custody (assuming he is, in fact, extradited) of the Federal Marshal's Service [wikipedia.org], I'd expect he'd be put in adminsitrative segregation [ncchc.org] to await trial, and will remain in Federal custody at least until the trial is complete.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @06:04AM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @06:04AM (#855422)

          Yes. Such a shame nobody knew about his weak heart. The autopsy carried out by prison doctors showed that he had an undiagnosed aortal defect, and that his death was completely unexpected and totally natural causes and not suspicious at all. The remains have been cremated.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @09:18AM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @09:18AM (#855453)

            I want you to remember what you said here, and once Assange is either acquitted and released or serves his time and is released, you can think back to how much your dark, paranoid ideation interfered with your perception of reality.

            When that day comes, I suspect that you're not self-reflective enough to realize how asinine your attitude is today and will just congratulate yourself because you know that's what would always happen.

            Have you stopped taking your meds?

            • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 14 2019, @12:52PM (3 children)

              by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday June 14 2019, @12:52PM (#855511) Journal

              Yeah, things aren't trending in your direction. As many others have pointed out upthread, the extradition request to Sweden was always a ruse to get Assange into the clutches of the US security state, and they have rightfully said, "I told you so."

              --
              Washington DC delenda est.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @12:56PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @12:56PM (#855514)

                And you believe that Assange will be murdered in Federal custody? Because that's what our off-his-meds paranoiac is predicting.

                That won't serve the Trump Administration's goal of attempting to cow the media, now will it?

                It won't work, of course. But it will make for more Trumpian soundbites.

                • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 15 2019, @02:01AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 15 2019, @02:01AM (#855855)

                  Will no one rid me of this turbulent journalist?

              • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @01:00PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @01:00PM (#855518)

                Why don't you go drown yourself in the Gowanus Canal.

                It won't do you any good, but I'll feel better.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @06:37AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @06:37AM (#855425)

    you better have a big friend on your side.
    Assange did not.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:57PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 14 2019, @02:57PM (#855588)

      There is no friend to be had. Russia has longest milage but even Putin will die someday and who knows who will be next up. If you plan on living any extended amount of time, sooner or later you will get Clintoned.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by amlu on Friday June 14 2019, @11:59AM (2 children)

    by amlu (6052) on Friday June 14 2019, @11:59AM (#855487)

    Poor dude, hopefully someone offers him a cyanide pill, if not he will be stuck in endless torture-recovery-torture loop, to the point of getting insane. Mess up with the masters in land of the freedom and you end up like that.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 14 2019, @12:53PM

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday June 14 2019, @12:53PM (#855512) Journal

      I don't know that we can save Assange in time, but perhaps we can give his tormentors the same treatment. As they have sown, so must they reap.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Friday June 14 2019, @02:32PM

      by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Friday June 14 2019, @02:32PM (#855558) Journal

      Don't think so, at least no more torture than usually goes on in confinement. The government now wants to make an example of in a way that chills the publication of material classified because it embarrasses the government, not make a martyr of him that will inspire others to take up his call.

      --
      This sig for rent.
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