The Raspberry Pi 4 Model B has been launched, despite months of tricky misdirection implying that it wouldn't be on the market until 2020. The technical specifications include two micro HDMI ports, two USB3 ports, two USB2 ports, dual band Wi-fi, Bluetooth 5, Gigabit Ethernet, and either 1GB, 2GB, or 4GB of RAM. Power consumption is noticeably higher than similar earlier models and the power can be supplied over USBC.
From the spec sheet:
- Broadcom BCM2711, Quad core Cortex-A72 (ARM v8) 64-bit SoC @ 1.5GHz
- 1GB ($35), 2GB ($45), or 4GB LPDDR4-2400 SDRAM ($55)
- 2.4 GHz and 5.0 GHz IEEE 802.11ac wireless, Bluetooth 5.0, BLE
- Gigabit Ethernet
- 2 USB 3.0 ports; 2 USB 2.0 ports.
- Raspberry Pi standard 40 pin GPIO header (fully backwards compatible with previous boards)
- 2 × micro-HDMI ports (up to 4kp60 supported)
- 2-lane MIPI DSI display port
- 2-lane MIPI CSI camera port
- 4-pole stereo audio and composite video port
- H.265 (4kp60 decode), H264 (1080p60 decode, 1080p30 encode)
- OpenGL ES 3.0 graphics
- Micro-SD card slot for loading operating system and data storage
- 5V DC via USB-C connector (minimum 3A*)
- 5V DC via GPIO header (minimum 3A*)
- Power over Ethernet (PoE) enabled (requires separate PoE HAT)
- Operating temperature: 0 – 50 degrees C ambient
takyon: Review at Tom's Hardware. Cons: "Key software doesn't work at launch, Poor high-res video playback". Cases for the previous Pi don't work due to the new micro-HDMI ports. Tom's measured nearly ten times better storage performance using one of the new USB 3.0 ports, and the gigabit Ethernet port can actually reach nearly 1 Gbps (943 Mbps vs. 237 Mbps for the previous model).
Also at The Verge and Ars Technica.
Original Submission #1 Original Submission #2 Original Submission #3
Related Stories
Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4
The Raspberry Pi 4 was announced two weeks ago as a major new upgrade to the line of cheap single-board hobbyist computers. The Pi 4 featured a faster CPU, options for up to 4GB of RAM, and a new, modern USB-C port for power delivery. The Pi 4 was the Raspberry Pi Foundation's first ever USB-C device, and, well, they screwed it up.
As detailed by Tyler Ward, the Raspberry Pi 4 has a non-compliant USB-C charging port and doesn't work with as many chargers as it should. Thanks to the open nature of Raspberry Pi (even the schematics are online!), Ward was able to discover that Raspberry Pi just didn't design its USB-C port correctly. Two "CC" pins on a USB-C port are supposed to each get their own 5.1K ohms resistor, but Raspberry Pi came up with its own circuit design that allows them to share a single resistor. This is not a compliant design and breaks compatibility with some of the more powerful USB-C chargers out there.
[...] The Pi 4 is not the first high-profile device to get the USB-C spec wrong. The Nintendo Switch also has a non-compliant USB-C port and has issues with certain USB-C cables as a result.
After reports started popping up on the Internet, Raspberry Pi cofounder Eben Upton admitted to TechRepublic that "A smart charger with an e-marked cable will incorrectly identify the Raspberry Pi 4 as an audio adapter accessory and refuse to provide power." Upton went on to say, "I expect this will be fixed in a future board revision, but for now users will need to apply one of the suggested workarounds. It's surprising this didn't show up in our (quite extensive) field testing program."
Probably not a dealbreaker (the cables that do work are cheaper), but could be annoying.
Previously: Raspberry Pi 4 Model B Launched
Raspberry Pi 4 Can Now Overclock to 2.147 GHz. Here's How.
The Raspberry Pi 4 is much faster than every prior Raspberry Pi, but what if you could squeeze much more than the base 1.5 GHz out of its Broadcom BCM2711B0 CPU? Fortunately, it's easy to overclock any Raspberry Pi and you can do it just by tweaking a few lines of text in the /boot/config.txt file. Now, with the latest firmware, we were able to reach a speed of 2,147 MHz, which we believe is a new high.
With prior firmware, the Pi 4 B's processor was limited to a maximum overclocked frequency of 2 GHz, which is pretty good all by itself. However, the latest update let us push it up another 147 MHz. We were also able to increase the GPU clock speed to 750 MHz, a big boost over its 500 MHz stock speed and the 600 MHz we had overclocked it to previously.
Before 2 GHz, the max overclock was 1.75 GHz with the original, stable firmware.
Also at Electronics Weekly.
Previously: Raspberry Pi 4 Model B Launched
Raspberry Pi 4 Has a Non-Compliant USB-C Charging Port
Too Hot to Handle? Raspberry Pi 4 Fans Left Wondering If Kit Should Come With a Heatsink
Physics World has a pair of articles on Eben Upton, co-founder of the Raspberry Pi Foundation. One is an interview about the growing role that Raspberry Pi computers has in industrial activities and the other concentrates on his background, which was originally in physics.
From the interview on the Raspberry Pi in industrial settings:
I'm seeing an increasing focus on communications, making it easier for computers to interact with the real world. There isn't so much excitement anymore in doing lots and lots of maths really fast on one computer in isolation, and we actually see this on the educational side of our business.
When we built the first Raspberry Pi, I didn't want to put input-output pins on it, because I thought kids would be interested in using them to write programs. Of course, what children actually love doing with Raspberry Pi is interacting with the real world, building weather stations and robot controllers and things like that. And maybe that was a harbinger of things to come, or the kids were attuned to the zeitgeist more than we were. The kinds of things they were interested in then are the things we're all interested in now, which is working out what problems computers can solve for you. And now that the era of free returns is coming to an end, I think we can broaden that question out a little bit.
A birthday gift: 2GB Raspberry Pi 4 now only $35
In two days' time, it will be our eighth birthday (or our second, depending on your point of view). Many of you set your alarms and got up early on the morning of 29 February 2012, to order your Raspberry Pi from our newly minted licensee partners, RS Components and Premier Farnell. In the years since, we've sold over 30 million Raspberry Pi computers; we've seen our products used in an incredible range of applications all over the world (and occasionally off it); and we've found our own place in a community of makers, hobbyists, engineers and educators who are changing the world, one project, or one student, at a time.
[...] Which brings us to today's announcement. The fall in RAM prices over the last year has allowed us to cut the price of the 2GB variant of Raspberry Pi 4 to $35. Effective immediately, you will be able to buy a no-compromises desktop PC for the same price as Raspberry Pi 1 in 2012. [...] And of course, thanks to inflation, $35 in 2012 is equivalent to nearly $40 today. So effectively you're getting all these improvements, and a $5 price cut.
[...] In line with our commitment to long-term support, the 1GB product will remain available to industrial and commercial customers, at a list price of $35. As there is no price advantage over the 2GB product, we expect most users to opt for the larger-memory variant. [...] The 4GB variant of Raspberry Pi 4 will remain on sale, priced at $55.
In addition to falling RAM prices (which will hopefully continue to fall in the future), there is likely an oversupply of the 2 GB model as the 4 GB model proved to be the most popular.
Also at TechCrunch, Tom's Hardware, PCWorld, and Hackaday.
The USB Type-C resistor issue has been fixed by the latest revision of the Raspberry Pi 4 Model B hardware, which is confirmed to be out in the wild. The issue prevented some USB-C power supplies from working with Pi4B:
The Raspberry Pi Foundation has announced a new Raspberry Pi 4 model with 8 GB of RAM:
Now, the Raspberry Pi Foundation has upped the ante by releasing a Raspberry Pi 4 B with a generous 8GB of RAM. Launching today for $75, the Raspberry Pi 4 B (8GB) is identical to other Raspberry Pi 4 B models in every way, except for its RAM capacity. So what do you do with all that memory, and is spending $20 more than the price of the $55 4GB model worth it?
The short answer is that, right now, the 8GB capacity makes the most sense for users with very specialized needs: running data-intensive server loads or using virtual machines. As our tests show, it's pretty difficult to use more than 4GB of RAM on Raspberry Pi, even if you're a heavy multitasker.
A beta version of a 64-bit Raspbian OS, which is being renamed to "Raspberry Pi OS", is available. The existing 32-bit Raspbian can use all the RAM, but with a limit of up to 3 GB per process.
Some changes have been made to the board:
The back of the board adds silkscreen for certifications, as well as existing modifications for Raspberry Pi 4 Rev 1.2 to avoid damaging the board when inserting a MicroSD card. But the top of the board has more modification around the USB-C port, USB Type-A ports, and a chip between the VLI PCIe to USB chip and AV jack is just gone. So it's possible further USB-C issues have been fixed, and some improvements have been made to USB host ports maybe with regards to powering up external hard drives.
[Update from Eben Upton about hardware changes:
These are the regulator changes I mention in the post. The disappeared chip near the USB connector is the old regulator. The new stuff near the USB-C is the new regulator. The input clamp component has moved across to the USB area to make room.
Several iterations of the Raspberry Pi 4's firmware have reduced power consumption and heat. A beta-level firmware update from earlier in the week added USB boot support.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by zoward on Monday June 24 2019, @03:54PM (17 children)
Of course key software and video playback aren't ready - they just announced it! Once the big players have had a little time to get ahold of an RPi4, these are solvable problems. 4GB is enough memory to build reasonably competent desktop machine. Can't wait!
(Score: 2) by Wierd0n3 on Monday June 24 2019, @04:10PM (16 children)
Not just the new HDMI jacks (dongle hell) but the usb-c power jack, and the fact they reversed the order of the USB/Ethernet jacks, means NONE of the old cases will be compatible.
I had hoped the Argon One would just need a new daughter-board to make the rear face compatible, but all of the holes in the back will need to be re-aligned for this sucker.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 24 2019, @04:46PM (3 children)
Thanks for this depressing thought.
Looks like Canakit has some cases already made: https://www.canakit.com/raspberry-pi-4-starter-kit.html [canakit.com]
https://www.canakit.com/raspberry-pi-4-complete-starter-kit.html [canakit.com]
On the other hand, inclusion of dual monitor drivers goes a long way to acknowledge one of the common use cases for a Raspberry Pi: as a photo/video display driver for kiosks and similar.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Monday June 24 2019, @05:55PM (2 children)
Come on. Pi cases have historically been ultra-inexpensive. And because they're small and not particularly demanding in terms of investment to manufacture, there have been lots of sources, and some of them have been very creative.
There are a lot of truly awesome and handy-riffic use cases for dual monitors. Most people just don't become aware of them until they see two (or more) monitors in action. I run with four monitors here most days, and use the heck out of all of them. When I really get into it, I go with six.
This version of the pi with 4GB RAM and dual monitor output is a great deal more interesting to me than previous versions. This unit would make a terrific SDR controller platform, a decent stand-alone image editing station, and be great for editing documents that refer to other documents. Or just work on one while having your work interactive media, such as IRC, Slack, Ryver or RocketChat, open on the other.
1.5 GHZ / 4 cores and 4 GB of RAM is an environment within which all of those applications could be suitably performant as long as they are well-written (I know, most aren't, but still... some of us still work to write performant software without assuming users buying the very latest CPUs will cover up shitty coding habits.)
With tablets and laptops becoming more common and desktops less so, I suspect that many users simply go about their business without really considering how much more productive and/or fun their lives would be if they had a reasonable amount of working display area, a decent mouse, and a decent keyboard. And a good chair. Mustn't forget that. 😊
Not that it isn't useful to have a laptop, of course it is, but as a primary working station? That's just shooting yourself in the foot.
Oh well... you can lead a quadruped to water, but you can't stop them from defecating in it.
--
The eyes are the windows to the soul.
Sunglasses are the window-shades.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 24 2019, @06:27PM (1 child)
It's not the money, it's the $17 touch-screen display case that I bought a few months ago - I'm betting the touchscreen will work with some effort, but the case it goes into will need updating...
That's one approach - I just went with the 30" 4K monitor when they came down out of the stratosphere, and I've been pretty happy with that as my primary screen since then - though I do have a side PC in a different OS on its own 1080p monitor, and two cast-off monitors running as photo frames on a couple of Ras-Pis...
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday June 25 2019, @02:57PM
How do you find the pixel pitch? Does it seem small, or large? Generally under OS X / MacOS this is most obvious when viewing an image at 1:1 (something I do a lot) so I'm quite curious. Also, how's your visual acuity? My eyes are slowly giving up on me, and really high resolutions will probably require really large monitors.
I was considering the new Mac Pro with a large 8k monitor/tv to replace this older Mac Pro, but don't know enough about the details of true 8k display support, etc. I'll have to redesign my desk-space too... not looking forward to that.
I also like the redundancy of having multiple displays... when one croaks, there are others. If a big single display goes, I'm going to be left hanging, and there are no vendors here at all, so it's either a 600 mile road trip or wait for a slowboat delivery service and hope they haven't wrecked the panel in transit.
I do all 2D work, so it's only 2D performance that concerns me.
--
🎶When you're down by the sea
And an eel bites your knee🎶
🎶That's a moray
(Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Monday June 24 2019, @04:52PM (8 children)
I haven't owned a RasPi since the first version, so I'm unencumbered by old cases. But I would still end up buying a case, micro-HDMI adapter, and ??? which could drive the price up by 50% from $55.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 24 2019, @05:19PM (6 children)
Canakit sells "everything but the monitor" for $120.
I'm sitting here looking at an unused 128GB microSD card, wondering....
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday June 24 2019, @06:34PM (5 children)
The keyboard and mouse are the least necessary items (IMO) in these complete kits. It's $20 in the complete kit or $25 separately [canakit.com].
The way I see it:
$55 RasPi 4GB
$7 Micro-HDMI to HDMI
$8 Power supply [canakit.com]
$5 Case [pishop.us]
$5 Heat sinks [canakit.com] (necessary?)
That's $80. You get the Starter Kit [canakit.com] at $100. So $20 is for the 32 GB microSD. You can find a 128 GB Class 10 microSD for $17 [slickdeals.net]. Or you might already have a card and not need one.
So that looks like the move. Spend $75-87 (heat sinks + 2 micro-HDMI cables), get microSD cards as needed or when they go on sale (you might want to store different OSes on different cards or something like that).
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 24 2019, @07:04PM (2 children)
That's one way.... or, just call it cheap enough and buy as many as you need of whatever you need, plus 2 because they're cheap and you don't want to wait when you figure out a use for another one... optimizing the last 10% out of the cost might be fun, but is it a more valuable use of your time and effort than repeating "you want fries with that?" Especially in a $15/hr minimum wage state.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday June 24 2019, @07:17PM (1 child)
It does not take very long to figure out how to save some money here. The low price is obviously part of the attraction of RasPi, so it's better if we stay closer to that price. And if you are buying multiple units for various projects or to give to friends, family, or whomever, then those savings start to add up.
Plz think of the poor (Gaaark).
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 24 2019, @08:37PM
Definitely, if I were equipping a school with 100 copies - but, here again, the selection of which monitor to pair them with would outweigh all the cost shaving considerations on the PI side.
They make it easy enough to buy the parts ala carte.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 10 2019, @04:37AM (1 child)
One of the dumbest things about the Pi is the lack of a power off/on button included. Turning it off is relatively easy, provided you can log in, but in order to turn it back on, you're stuck either power cycling it or getting a 3rd party button.
It's kind of hard for me to believe that they still can't provide one built into the board. I realize that these are ultra cheap boards, but this is an unnecessary annoyance
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday July 10 2019, @04:51AM
Read the new story. They goofed on the USB-C charge port.
I'm thinking of getting a FLIRC case [flirc.tv] and an infrared receiver so it can be controlled with a remote (for Kodi). Maybe you could use a remote to turn the thing on and off?
Anyway, I think a lot of people would have their RasPi 4 "desktop" on 24/7. I hardly ever turn computers off.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday June 24 2019, @08:32PM
My pair of B's are also of the first generation.
The case shape changed between the A/B and A+/B+ models, so our cases have been out-of-date and incompatible since 2014.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 24 2019, @05:23PM (2 children)
I build my own housing via 3D printing. Will take about an hour to reverse usb and Ethernet. And replace the microbes and hdmi ports. All my current boxes will just take the new sled and be done. I post them all on thingaverse.
(Score: 2) by WizardFusion on Monday June 24 2019, @05:39PM (1 child)
They also mentioned that the USB and Ethernet have also moved 1mm outward. Not sure if it will make a difference to you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 24 2019, @09:47PM
Of course, 1mm outward for the microbes it's a huge difference, like a petri dish football field, tehy are tiny!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Monday June 24 2019, @04:07PM
The 4 GB upgrade is a no-brainer. $20/4GB is pretty much the cost of the RAM anyway. Unless your use case doesn't need even 1 GB of RAM, in which case you get the base model. The 2 GB model is the odd one out and should be ignored.
The previous RAM was 1 GB LPDDR2 RAM at 900 MHz, so LPDDR4-2400 is a nice jump.
Power draw is up, but not too much more than Pi 3 B+.
I would break my "must have AV1 decode" policy and get the 4 GB model. The inclusion of Bluetooth 5 could allow it to connect to Bluetooth 5 headphones (I'm looking at these [amazon.com]) over a pretty long distance. Real life range obviously won't be quadrupled, but it could be enough to stream podcasts, news/radio, etc. at a great distance. I assume issues with YouTube or video in general will be resolved, and I'll be happy if at least 720p works.
I don't think I have anything for micro HDMI. A micro-to-regular cable starts at around $6.50, other adapters like VGA are closer to $12-15.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Informative) by canopic jug on Monday June 24 2019, @04:08PM (2 children)
Roy Longbottom has published the results of his 32-bit benchmarking tests [researchgate.net] at ResearchGate:
His measurements include I/O and stress tests. He has the source code for the tests available for download as a tar ball.
With the dual graphics, these seem to be aiming at the desktop, in addition to anything else they might be taking on. They will make a mark there. These are probably outpeforming the desktops we had less than 15 years ago, but for two orders of magnitude less cost. However, I hope they are able to retain focus on their stated goal to "further the advancement of education of adults and children, particularly in the field of computers, computer science and related subjects".
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday June 24 2019, @04:25PM
The education goal is tied to OS, software, and outreach, but improved hardware helps. With 50% to 1000% better performance in various areas, it should be less of a chore to use.
I think there had been some speculation that Google would partner with Raspberry Pi to add an on-board TPU for machine learning, which is obviously a hot computer education topic. But they seem to have created their own board [hackaday.com] instead (never heard of it). The price is much more than a RasPi.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 24 2019, @04:51PM
$120 for a bring your own monitor desktop PC / development environment, and $35 a throw for development boards with full wired and wireless networking capabilities plus 40 pins of GPIO? Standardized by a trusted community of supportive developers and tinkerers? "Guaranteed" production through 2026? Sounds like a killer tool for education of adults and children, particularly in the field of computers, computer science and related subjects.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Monday June 24 2019, @04:27PM (2 children)
Any soylentils have a working solar system with a $Pi ?
I was thinking of making some wildlife sensors that don't need intervention and report back via wifi....
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 24 2019, @05:01PM
A few people have developed things along those lines:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=trail+camera+with+solar+power&crid=PFH58DWC8RNR&sprefix=trail+cameras+with+solar%2Caps%2C153&ref=nb_sb_ss_sc_2_24 [amazon.com]
If you want to tinker, you can probably get more. Personally, my pet project development platform has moved in this direction:
https://www.banggood.com/Ulefone-ARMOR-6E-NFC-IP68-IP69K-Waterproof-6_2-inch-5000mAh-4GB-64GB-Helio-P70-Octa-core-4G-Smartphone-p-1458448.html?rmmds=search&ID=224521090&cur_warehouse=HK [banggood.com]
Just add solar power, a GoogleFi data only SIM and maybe some Bluetooth connected sensors...
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 24 2019, @05:14PM
"a working solar system"
First you gotta get some smart light bulbs hooked up to your Pi along with a voice recognition module, and THEN you can go all techno mage as you utter the words "let there be light!"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 24 2019, @04:51PM (1 child)
...alone until september.
Right now you only can buy the Raspberry Pi 4 Desktop Kit pack [thepihut.com] for just £115 (~$146) + shipping.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday June 24 2019, @05:03PM
16 GB microSD for that price? Yikes.
Your link says "Coming Soon" so even that is not available.
I'm hoping Micro Center gets a hold of them.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by crunchy_one on Monday June 24 2019, @04:56PM (5 children)
Why are there 3 SKUs with different memory sizes when the price difference across the entire range is a mere $20? I would think offering just one with the full 4G would be more cost efficient, allowing a lower price for the one that everyone will want.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 24 2019, @05:04PM
The one in the middle is a bit weird, but I do see a huge difference in market even between a $35 piece and a $50 piece. Remember, there's a whole world of legacy R-Pi applications out there that get by just fine on 1GB of RAM, but might appreciate the other upgrades, at no cost.
And, I don't think that buying 4GB RAM chips in (more) bulk is going to drop their price appreciably.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday June 24 2019, @05:07PM (1 child)
As I wrote above, 2 GB is a head scratcher. And I guess they are committed to selling that particular SKU until January 2026.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 24 2019, @06:31PM
All I can think of is that 2GB chips are readily available, and they might be using those to gap-fill when 1GB or 4GB run in short supply.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 24 2019, @05:31PM
Really only need 1GB with ZRAM so 512MB useable. 2GB is a good size with ZRAM 1GB useable. 4GB is a stretch but help future proof. I have built many projects with 1GB since 20MB/s is max you can push TOTAL for total IO. The usb3 is the game changer and 4Gb/s IO.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by theluggage on Monday June 24 2019, @07:21PM
A price difference of "only" $20... on a product that only costs $35!
Some people are going to buy these in quantities for education, training or embedding in products - and part of the point of the Pi is that, if you give it to a kid and they let the magic smoke out, its no big deal. The $35 price point is pretty strategically important.
If you had a limited budget to buy a "class set" for education (say) would you prefer:
1) 19 4G Pis,
b) 23 2G Pis or
c) 30 1G Pis?
Choice is good.
(Score: 4, Funny) by isostatic on Monday June 24 2019, @06:19PM (4 children)
No wifi, less space than a nomad, lame
(Score: 2) by WizardFusion on Monday June 24 2019, @06:23PM (3 children)
Did you read the summary. The third line says
> 2.4 GHz and 5.0 GHz IEEE 802.11ac wireless, Bluetooth 5.0, BLE
(Score: 3, Funny) by takyon on Monday June 24 2019, @06:35PM
iso was right about the space!
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Informative) by nitehawk214 on Monday June 24 2019, @06:36PM (1 child)
Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/IPod [wikiquote.org]
Tho, really this quote has been a meme since 2001.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 3, Touché) by takyon on Monday June 24 2019, @06:44PM
Wizard was right about the Wi-Fi.
A correct adaptation of the meme could be:
"No 802.11ax, less space than an Atomic Pi, lame"
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 24 2019, @10:41PM (7 children)
Much better hardware out there, for not much more.
Sure they have a great ecosystem, but if you dont need that, then you dont really want a PI.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 25 2019, @12:10AM (6 children)
Well, that was true of the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+, yesterday.
Is there "much better" hardware than the Raspberry Pi 4 Model B for "not much more"?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 25 2019, @10:29AM (4 children)
But the Rock64 has been shipping for 2 years now, fits the original Pi cases (with a hole for the 4th USB port.) It has support for eMMC using the ODROID v1 connector, native 1GBit Ethernet, 1-4GB of LPDDR3, Mali-450 GPU (liability now, but was good enough compared to other boards when released.), 1xUSB 3.0, 2xUSB 2.0, uSD port, onboard 128Mbit SPI flash. It lacks Bluetooth and Wifi, uses a 5v 3A barrel jack (so figure 10 bucks for a PSU on top of the board cost) and has Cortex-A53 cores. For some people these are detrimental, but for those of us who want relatively secure Pi-sized device for 25-45 dollars (1GB, 2GB, 4GB models, markup of 0-400 percent, depending on supplier) that is actually available, then they can't be beat. As an added bonus they have the original Pi-P5 bus in addition to a 40 pin header (which unfortunately has a few different pins due to different SoC functionality.)
If you're not tied to the Pi formfactor or cost, they also have a Rock64Pro with an actual open-ended x4 PCIe port, a Hex Core 4xA53+2xA72 SoC (big brother of the Rock64's SoC), a header for 802.11ac wifi daughtercard, and all the other features of the aforementioned board.
They also have 11 and 14" 1080p Allwinner (Pine64 reworked into a notebook board) based notebooks available for 100 usd before tax and shipping, with a 'Pro' model based on the Rock64Pro in the works, along with a PinePhone. pine64.org for prices and features. The only downside with Pine is unless you with Ameridroid or a local reseller (at a markup), all of the Pine products are being shipped out of Shenzen, which means the potential for customs hassles, particularly if you are in the US. Ameridroid only has the 1-2GB Rock64s and earlier models/accessories in stock as well at a 15+ dollar markup.
The Rock64Pro can be combined with a PCIe bridge card (sold for bitcoin mining) to provide more expansion ports. however since no x4 Bridge cards were developed, only x16 and x1, you would take a 3 lane performance hit by using them. However if you wanted to run a full size graphics card and needed a larger power envelope over the edge connector than the Rock64Pro can provide, it is an option.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 25 2019, @01:53PM (3 children)
I was thinking of getting a Pinebook Pro, and I still might at some point, but it looks like I'm going to go with Raspberry Pi 4 (4 GB) first. Before we were having the Pinebook Pro [soylentnews.org] discussion, Eben Upton had fibbed [tomshardware.com] and made it sound like the Pi 4 would not be available until 2020 or later.
The biggest problem with RasPi seems to be the lack of on-board eMMC, and that's not the end of the world.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by canopic jug on Wednesday June 26 2019, @03:28AM (2 children)
The biggest problem with RasPi seems to be the lack of on-board eMMC, and that's not the end of the world.
That's actually a big advantage. Pop in a new microSD card and you have a new system. This is good if you are working on several independent or incompatible projects at the same time. It also makes the system more independent from the hardware because they are no longer (usually) tied to specific devices. Maybe they are tied to specific peripherals, but those are often easy to swap, too, when it comes down to it.
I objected to the lack of on-board eMMC initially. But after working with the boards quite a bit, I've come around. The only major complaint is that for some use-cases you need to tape over the microSD card or buy special cases where they are not readily accessible.
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(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday June 26 2019, @01:21PM (1 child)
That's true, but I've looked at the comments sections for maybe 10 RasPi 4 articles and lack of eMMC keeps coming up. eMMC performance is maybe 3-4x that of the microSD, and more convenient for some scenarios.
I like the idea of swapping OSes with cards, but in practice a lot of users will just have the default distro, on slower NAND. Although maybe people will use the USB 3.0 ports instead.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by canopic jug on Wednesday June 26 2019, @03:24PM
It depends on the context. The main goal behind the Raspberry Pi is to get people learning hands-on programming, robotics, electronics, and anything related to computer science. So, as another example, if you have a several classes to teach, you only need enough machines for a single group and then can just swap out cards for each group. It costs less inventory and expense.
But in other situations you'd want a soldered in eMMC unit.
The choice of dual graphics ports for their high-end units was unexpected. I'm now quite interested to see what they will do with their next low-end units.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 25 2019, @05:40PM
Lots of RK3399 boards out there. Yes, some are quite a bit more, others not much more. Tons better hardware.
But yes i do agree if you get too much power in one of these, it sort of blurs the real intent of this stuff. embedded projects.