Submitted via IRC for Bytram
How Microsoft made it harder to create Windows 10 local accounts
If you're thinking about resetting your Windows PC with a local account, save yourself some frustration and consider upgrading to the Windows 10 May 2019 Update first.
Our experiences with the October 2018 Update nearly convinced us that local accounts were gone for good. They're not, thank goodness, but Out-of-the-Box Experience (OOBE) in that version pushes you particularly hard toward using a Microsoft account. We discovered two workarounds, though, to allow you to log in as you wish.
[...] Over time, Microsoft has tacitly encouraged you ever more to create a Microsoft account, but it's never actually blocked you from creating a local one. It comes damn close in the October 2018 Update, however. Even worse, it begs you to connect your PC to the Internet—but never warns you that once you do, the local account option will never be displayed.
In the May 2019 Update, Microsoft seems to have relaxed its tactics. But only a small fraction of users, or about 6 percent, appear to have access to the friendlier version. That estimate comes from AdDuplex, which tracks versioning as part of its ad network. According to AdDuplex, about a third of Windows users remain on the October 2018 Update, also known as 1809.
Microsoft changes up little elements of Windows from time to time, even "A/B" testing some features with some users and not with others. (Generally this happens more often in the Windows 10 Insider program.) PC makers also tweak their own factory-installed builds of Windows 10. In short, Windows 10 experiences differ by user, by PC, and by the version of Windows 10 they've installed.
With many users still stuck on the October 2018 Update or earlier versions, it's worth knowing that you'll probably want to upgrade straight through to the May 2019 Update if you prefer the local account option.
Remember, Microsoft is hoping to attract a billion users to Windows 10, and it's making money by luring them into its services and subscription model. Because a Microsoft account is the best way to do that, it's worth keeping an eye on how Microsoft "encourages" you to sign up and use one.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @01:59AM (12 children)
from your new system before account setup. Otherwise, you'll never get the option.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @02:31AM (7 children)
Still using Win7, can't remember what the setup looked like (it was years ago), but I don't have any Microsoft accounts that I know about(??)
Can someone explain what the difference is between a local account and a Microsoft account?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @02:34AM (5 children)
One officially assigns you an advertising ID M$ uses to track you (guggle style), the other one doesn't (but they still track you all the same unless you use LTSB and configure it properly). And this isn't a thing outside of Windus 10.
(Score: 4, Funny) by SpockLogic on Tuesday July 23 2019, @02:58AM (1 child)
So Windows 10 is spyware, who knew.
Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @03:06AM
Everybody?
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Tuesday July 23 2019, @01:24PM (2 children)
Two versions of Windows prior to Windows 10 supported Microsoft accounts: Windows 8 and Windows 8.1.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:55PM
There's a reason, I skipped Windows 8/8.1 and begrudgingly updated my Win7 to Win10 for free. I also made sure to create a local account and turned off as much tracking junk as possible. At some point, Windows will make enough mistakes for me to give up on them entirely. That point hasn't come yet, but one thing I'm not likely to accept is subscription anything for my OS. Perhaps, it's just a matter of time, but Apple sure hasn't gone that way. Microsoft would literally be doing a cash grab at that point and I don't support things like that.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @08:55PM
i think they really meant "windows" in general, but said "windows 10".
(Score: 3, Informative) by vux984 on Tuesday July 23 2019, @03:46AM
The *main* difference is that your account credentials are stored at microsoft. Kind of a like a giant global active-directory account. So you can reset your password via the web (since its tied to your email) and sync various windows settings, etc to other computers you use with the same account. (kind of like roaming profiles). It also signs you into to the microsoft store with the same account automatically; so your purchases there are available everywhere too; and onedrive; and skype etc... so if you use all that with the same account, the setup is all automatic.
The advertising ID the other poster mentions is there either way regardless. You can elect to show ads or not based on it, but either way they profile you unless you get aggressive at blocking telemetry.
The other thing it "allows" is for you to link your windows10 product keys to it; which gives you the ability to move your windows 10 licenses around. This is actually useful for people who build their own PCs, and either purchased windows 10, or in many cases upgraded from 7/8 to 10 and now have the win10 license locked to that hardware. Attaching the key it to a Microsoft account will let you move it.
I therefore setup and use local accounts. But do have a microsoft account with my households license keys attached to it, which i login in with once to allocate/reallocate to activate windows after major upgrades and then delete the account again.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @02:32AM
Better options: Don't use Windus 10 or pirate LTSB.
(Score: 5, Informative) by vux984 on Tuesday July 23 2019, @03:34AM (2 children)
No.
TLDR is actually, with the latest release, there is a nice "Offline Account" option that you can use WITHOUT disconnecting from the network.
And the disconnect option was a good way to force it before.
I just did a batch of win10 installs, and the OOBE is definitely better with the spring 2019 update. Still pretty irritating though. Maybe I'm in the minority but pretty much everything microsoft WANTS you to do is the opposite of what I want to do.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @07:34AM (1 child)
Makes sense though, given that the whole thing begins with them wanting you to use Windows 10 against your preference of using something, anything, else.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @08:58PM
yeah and the whole point of closed source software is to deny you your rights. what's so hard for these bleating sheep to understand?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Tuesday July 23 2019, @03:00AM (2 children)
I sometimes wonder how this shit is even legal. Or why people put up with it.
Then I remember I'm on a planet populated by drooling idiotic consumertards, that actually LIKE being raped up the butt by their corporate overlords.
I've only got one Windows 10 box at the moment, and its primary purpose involves having no fucking Internet connection some of the time. It would be totally stupid to use any kind of remote authentication.
I can't even think of a single good reason anyone would ever want to use a "Microsoft Account".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @05:04PM
Or because they want to use their computers and don't really give a shit about their computer being "free", especially if the "free" computer stops them from doing what they want to do with it. Or because they don't care if they are ad tracked up the wazoo and the machine wants to call home every five minutes. Or because the software they want to use is made for Windows and has no Linux version. Or because they simply want to use the most popular OS infrastructure currently in use. Or because they have multiple computers and don't want to screw with having to set each one up bur rather have a master cloud source streamline some of that for them.
It's not that I sympathize, I do. I do not use a Microsoft Account on my computers, either, and wish the concept hadn't been born too. But marginalizing those that do like and use it does nothing to fix the situation other than letting you vent your butthurt. (Which can have value too, I suppose). Seeing things in reality, though, might allow one to intelligently try to turn the tide.
Oh, well.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday July 23 2019, @07:15PM
I can't imagine the percentage of computer users that go out and buy a new version of Windows is high. Windows is just that thing that comes pre-installed on 87% (or whatever...minus Macs and the 2% of Linux boxes sold at retail if you look really hard) of computers.
You can't really even register your dissent to Microsoft. What are you going to do, wipe your PC and install Linux instead?* I'm sure Microsoft is waiting with baited breath over that one, Joe PC User.
Because it's a huge-ass business--in the vast majority of houses in the Western world--with deep pockets, and politicians. Microsoft might as well be a bank; I imagine they'd get bailed out if they somehow cratered.
What would you suggest people do against Microsoft, beyond installing something else over it and not buying
ZunesWindows phoneswhat else does MS even sell anymore? X-Boxes I guess?*While you still can. Locked bootloaders, hardware whitelists, etc. is some scary shit for the future of computing. The day when the average computer user says he's fed up with Windows, goes to install Linux over it, and finds out he can't because his own hardware won't let him.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @03:03AM (1 child)
Anyone else momentarily see a Windows XP icon as the avatar on the logon screen? It's on 2 PCs with a fresh install.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @03:05AM
If you forcefully close a certain handle in the display manager you can even get the entire XP GDI32 UI back.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @03:13AM (6 children)
Previous comment on related article: https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=19/07/22/1539226#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]
Once again, people do not fucking know what they are signing away with EULAs and Win 10 -- privacy and your insurance premiums aren't the only things at stake here. With consumers uneducated to the point of not knowing there even EXIST alternatives, I'm willing to argue that Win10 en-masse violates the basic human rights of 71% of computer users. (71% per the steam hardware survey, this misses those that have to use Win 10 at work, or in terminals at stores, etc.). At no point in the history of computers has ANY business pushed THIS hard and THIS effectively to increase quarterly profits by tiny slivers at the cost of customers.
Seriously, what is the fucking point of this data collection? Sure, Microsoft can more effectively "improve" Windows to peddle some ads and install candy crush, but what's the fucking point? They're a monopoly and already control the market! Do they REALLY need it to operate?
The marginal cost of improving profits through this data collection fuckery is gonna give way eventually, but when you're operating at maximum profitable revenue, you tend to have a lot of costs that can't be spun down quickly in case anything happens.
Consider this: I once heard how a small change to add a single entry into a dropdown box in the new Win 10 control panel takes more than a WEEK for two guys to implement. I also heard that you get reprimaned for bugfixing related code when working on something! It's just "not in line" with the "plan" or something. With what I heard so far and the amount of bugs I have to deal with when toying around on this little Win 10 box I got going on? It really does feel like Windows 10 is only a matter of time before it collapses under its own complexity.
Sun-Tzu said: [...] the expenditure at home and at the front, including entertainment of guests, small items such as glue and paint, and sums spent on chariots and armor, will reach the total of a thousand ounces of silver per day. Such is the cost of raising an army of 100,000 men.
If and when this project fails WITHOUT winding down the number of programmers? I think they're gonna have an army of men to feed and it might just end rather badly for Microsoft. I know they have income streams other than Windows, but shareholders aren't always the most rational. "Shat ya Nutella" will fucking hang point, mark my fucking words.
On a related note, China has no quarterly financial statements or shareholders to keep it contained. Its social credit system is going to be mandatory in 2020 and god knows where that'll end up. I hope no civil war or god forbid a World War between China and whoever decides to put an end to Auswitz v2.0.
For what it's worth, I usually don't care enough to protest human rights violations, but with this garbage it's my ass on the line as well! I have no idea what my government is gonna do and whether they'll setup a "social credit" system and feed it with leaked data!
I know I've said "I won't buy Windows" numerous times over the last decade, but this time its a whole different game. I significantly worry about the fallout of this 'big data' garbage and where it's gonna end up. I sure hope people will start waking the fuck up over this shit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @03:15AM
My bad, linked the wrong link, here's the right one: https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=32728&page=1&cid=870129#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @03:23AM
And then USA complaints / frets about Russia "strongarming" its companies to work with the govt. Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon, Facebook - the evil(est) and most visible 5 in the cabal. And then you have Palantir and lesser known intruders...
XP starts really looking like a fresh daisy in Springtime. And your software wasn't 'subscription'-only.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @07:03AM (1 child)
"Consider this: I once heard how a small change to add a single entry into a dropdown box in the new Win 10 control panel takes more than a WEEK for two guys to implement. I also heard that you get reprimaned for bugfixing related code when working on something! It's just "not in line" with the "plan" or something. With what I heard so far and the amount of bugs I have to deal with when toying around on this little Win 10 box I got going on? It really does feel like Windows 10 is only a matter of time before it collapses under its own complexity."
Are you referring to this?
https://files.catbox.moe/8009d5.PNG [catbox.moe]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @09:20PM
I was referring to that, yeah.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday July 23 2019, @10:36AM (1 child)
Sun-Tzu also said "Peoples is dumb. They will take all kinds of shit up their arses AND pay $ for the privilege... because they is DUMB!"
That man was smart, but peoples is dumb and do dumb shit. Only "We few...we happy few, move onto real OS's like Linux".
At BEST, Windows is a gaming box but I'd still not bend over for the privilege of using it to game.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 23 2019, @02:50PM
At least half of the people in the world should have ditched Windows by now. I mean, you don't have to be a genius to install it, or to run it. It's much more than a stupid person can accomplish, but average people can do it today. All they have to do, is decide to do so. So, yeah, like you say, peoples is dumb.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @04:56AM (2 children)
Nobody should be surprised by this. The goal of much of Big Tech is to own your computer and data, with you paying for it.
It's probably only going to get worse from here, as it has been for years. This is the whole point of Windows 10.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 23 2019, @09:21AM (1 child)
Just wait until they offer "free" computers. Then you know we are truly screwed.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Pino P on Tuesday July 23 2019, @01:33PM
Cellular Internet service providers in the United States have offered "free" pocket computers for years. They were "free" in the sense that the bill for data service didn't go down after the 2-year commitment ended. This ended around the start of T-Mobile US's "Un-carrier" campaign [wikipedia.org], which separated the handset financing and the data service into two line items, with handset financing dropping off the bill after two years. T-Mobile's competitors eventually followed suit.
Instances of this business model for desktop computers are harder to find, but off the top of my head, I remembered i-Opener [wikipedia.org] and PeoplePC [wikipedia.org].