U.S. pulls out of Soviet-era nuclear missile pact with Russia
The United States formally withdrew from a landmark nuclear missile pact with Russia on Friday after determining that Moscow was in violation of the treaty, something the Kremlin has repeatedly denied.
Washington signalled it would pull out of the arms control treaty six months ago unless Moscow stuck to the accord. Russia called the move a ploy to exit a pact the United States wanted to leave anyway in order to develop new missiles.
The 1987 Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) was negotiated by then-U.S. President Ronald Reagan and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.
Previously: President Trump Warns That the U.S. Will Pull out of Nuclear Forces Treaty and Build Up its Arsenal
Related Stories
Trump to Pull US Out of Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty
President Donald Trump announced Saturday that the US is pulling out of the landmark Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty with Russia, a decades-old agreement that has drawn the ire of the President.
[...] The treaty forced both countries to eliminate ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with ranges between approximately 300 and 3,400 miles. It offered a blanket of protection to the United States' European allies and marked a watershed agreement between two nations at the center of the arms race during the Cold War.
Former State Department spokesman Rear Adm. John Kirby, a CNN military and diplomatic analyst, explained that the treaty "wasn't designed to solve all of our problems with the Soviet Union," but was "designed to provide a measure of some strategic stability on the continent of Europe."
"It's the dirt that does it."
Donald Trump: US will build up nuclear arsenal
President Donald Trump has warned that the US will bolster its nuclear arsenal to put pressure on Russia and China. Speaking to reporters, he repeated his belief that Russia has violated the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty, which he has threatened to leave. Russia denies this.
The Cold War-era treaty banned medium-range missiles, reducing the perceived Soviet threat to European nations.
Russia has warned it will respond in kind if the US develops more weapons. Mr Trump said the US would build up its arsenal "until people come to their senses".
[...] Meanwhile, US National Security Adviser John Bolton has been holding talks in Moscow after Russia condemned the US plan to quit the deal. Mr Bolton was told that the US withdrawal would be a "serious blow" to the non-proliferation regime.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:06AM (23 children)
INF nuclear treaty: Trump says new pact should include China [bbc.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:20AM (20 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:49AM (19 children)
It sounds like more of a golden lie.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by Arik on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:51AM (6 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by takyon on Saturday August 03 2019, @11:05AM (5 children)
Do you really think that Russia and China are excited (much less "very, very excited") to enter into a new nuclear treaty with the U.S.? Especially given the less than amicable conditions that led to the current INF collapsing, or China's attention being focused on Hong Kong (and if that escalates further and the U.S. puts out statements in support of Hong Kong...).
Oh, and since the Trump quote seems to have disappeared from TFAs for some reason:
https://news.sky.com/story/trump-china-and-russia-very-excited-about-proposed-new-nuclear-pact-11776241 [sky.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:35PM (4 children)
China? Yeah, that's less likely. I think they were happy with the INF without being a party to it. But, that doesn't mean this is impossible.
You still didn't explain what you meant by the previous comment.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by legont on Sunday August 04 2019, @04:31AM (3 children)
Yep, rockets are going to Asia https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-asia-inf/u-s-defense-secretary-says-he-favors-placing-missiles-in-asia-idUSKCN1UT098 [reuters.com]
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by legont on Sunday August 04 2019, @04:40AM (2 children)
The reason I think mostly is that Chinese sea based rockets are faster and have better range than the US ones. The US can not use aircraft carriers in the region - they are basically floating ducks. The US needs better base for the rockets.
Another reason is that China does not have deployed nukes. Their strategy is to sit out nuclear strike, dig up their nukes from storage, and strike back.
Why this is important? It allows China to actually use their rockets say against the US aircraft carrier or even the US mainland without risk of provoking nuclear exchange.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday August 06 2019, @06:46AM (1 child)
Don't make me defend the PRC. Don't make me defend Winnie, please. He's my least favorite.
But the PRC wanting control of the south china sea should be put in context of the control Trump demands not only over the gulf of mexico, but as far away as la Venezuela.
It's all just an excuse to boost arms budgets in both countries of course.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday August 06 2019, @11:33PM
Let's check the basic numbers. http://statisticstimes.com/economy/united-states-vs-china-economy.php [statisticstimes.com]
China is 1.28 US on PPP basis, which many say does not mean too much as the US is still 1.5 China on face dollar value.
However the US just accused China of currency manipulation which I'd assume means 25-50% "illegal" devaluation. Does this means the US just accepted that China is an equal if not bigger economy?
If so, China has a right for similar military and corresponding policies such as aircraft carriers within striking distance of Washington as well as rocket bases say in Venezuela. Actually, as the biggest and most dynamic economy, China has a responsibility for protecting this world.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 4, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 03 2019, @05:20AM (11 children)
You think? This is how Trump works. He presents the other parties with a choice between what he wants and something much worse. He's not subtle about it, though I expect he thinks he is. And it does work more often than not.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @06:36AM (4 children)
Just like North Korea. And it does work more often than not!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:05PM (3 children)
No, it does work. Nothing that head cheetos has done has actually worked through.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:07PM (1 child)
*doesn't
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @03:32PM
Might work for South Korea.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Saturday August 03 2019, @08:20PM
Our brave courageous president has been very effective. For the good of the nation. (the nation of Russia, that is) (and North Korea)
Trump has also been helpful for our poor corporations.
And a help and inspiration to embolden and empower people who are self-proclaimed Nazis. So self proclaimed that they carry the flag and wear the uniform.
Yes, really. I know this won't be welcome news by all.
The people who rely on government handouts and refuse to work should be kicked out of congress.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by RamiK on Saturday August 03 2019, @09:57AM (5 children)
It would take historians decades to quantify and qualify that statement. Forcing other parties to do what you want leaves you as a common enemy between the people who refused and those who had no choice but to agree. So now they won't join your bans on Chinese companies. They won't cooperate on your attempts to more strictly regulate banking and cryptocurrency to fight tax evasion and money laundering. They won't sign with your companies on long term contracts. They won't join your war coalitions. They'll favor third parties for energy imports. They won't adopt your regulations so your nations products will gradually lose their competitive edge...
compiling...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:14PM (3 children)
Man, please. Russia does what it does because Putin thinks it is good for Russia. When he concedes anything to us, it's because he wants something else. Ditto China. Any "let's not offend them in pursuit of a goal" talk is just fear and stupidity.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by RamiK on Saturday August 03 2019, @03:06PM (2 children)
Russia and China aren't the ones you shouldn't offend. Ditching the nuclear disarmament agreements isn't a threat for China or Russia. They're already in the mutual annihilation tier. What it does instead is to reinforce the post Georgia and Ukraine impression that that the US won't protect its proxies with its military. And when those allies start arming themselves with nukes or switch to the Russians and Chinese for protection, they tend to stop buying American goods.
It's sorta like a contemporary variation on domino theory and the containment.
compiling...
(Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Saturday August 03 2019, @06:52PM
What American goods? Even iPhones are actually produced in China.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Saturday August 03 2019, @09:05PM
Like Turkey.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:59PM
That is tmb for ya, makes sweeping statements that are impossible to prove and trests them like gospel truth, and you're an idiot if you don't take it the same way.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @12:37PM (1 child)
Yeah, Trump lies, as usual. How do I know ? His lips move.
And does Trump ever NOT talk like he's talking to a bunch of twelve-year olds ? I'll answer my own question: No, no he doesn't, because he knows full well the mental age of his supporters.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @03:52PM
Have you noticed how quick those free-speech-loving anti-censorship right-wingers are to downmod every post critical of their child-molesting orange god ?
I guess amorality and hypocricy go hand-in-hand.
(Score: 3, Touché) by ikanreed on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:35AM
Cuba should get some missiles again
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @06:50AM (25 children)
All about the Brexit! Could the Brave and rather idiotic Brits stand off against all the intermediate nuclear weapons aimed at Europe? Of course not! So, the only option, for a rational game-theoretic Trump administration, and Stephens Miller and Bannon, is a pre-emptive strike on England. Unfortunately, after the latest season of BBC, the rest of the entire world would be in favor of the same. So, now, you have to ask yourself, do you have a shot at Boris's girlfriend? If not, Nukes for all!
(Score: 2, Touché) by janrinok on Saturday August 03 2019, @07:37AM (7 children)
What a load of rubbish. I'm assuming that you think that this is humour?.
Defence is nothing to do with Brexit, and the French also have a nuclear arsenal and the ability to deliver it. Your understanding of nuclear warfare is also flawed. The threat is not whether you have more nuclear weapons than your enemy, but whether you can deliver sufficient warheads onto targets such that they make the enemy believe that the costs of a nuclear exchange would far outweigh the perceived gains. In the event of a nuclear strike on Europe, the UK and/or France would be forced to consider retaliation with the nuclear assets that they have available to them. So a small number of low yield nuclear weapons delivered by an enemy would result in a counter strike using potentially much more powerful nuclear weapons.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @08:32AM (5 children)
To be fair, it does look like humour.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @08:47AM (2 children)
British nuclear forces also appear to be an attempt a humour, much like James Bond is compensation for the sun setting on the British Empire. But at least they have Nukes! More often than not, American Nukes, but Nukes nonetheless! Ah, blimey, to be a bloke on the brimey back in the day of the Pox Britannica! And French Nukes? Tested in Tahiti? Mere tropical bon-bons, I assure you.
(Score: 4, Informative) by ElizabethGreene on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:00PM (1 child)
The kingdom paid a very high price [wikipedia.org] for her nuclear arsenal. I would not trivialize it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 04 2019, @06:20AM
Should have purchased from the Americans. They would have been happy to sell.
They love selling out.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @08:52AM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 04 2019, @06:12AM
My sense of humor was surgically extracted at a young age. While not a sociopath or psychopath my understanding of the world is far different from most. Bear with me.
(Score: 2) by legont on Sunday August 04 2019, @04:09AM
Even before the WWI it was clearly understood "that the costs of a
nuclear exchangewar would far outweigh the perceived gains".A very good economist wrote a 1000 pages book about it beaten the dead horse to the pulp.
https://www.amazon.com/Illusion-Relation-Military-National-Advantage/dp/161203652X/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=CjwKCAjw4ZTqBRBZEiwAHHxpfozBPqYjBrJHQnSn3xDa5gXaxvP50uEYuuq5JqesGJwxX6hEQMCuSBoCreAQAvD_BwE&hvadid=241906565694&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9003587&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3017417085841332014&hvtargid=kwd-179905084120&hydadcr=22596_10348340&keywords=the+great+illusion+by+norman+angell&qid=1564891519&s=gateway&sr=8-1 [amazon.com]
Meantime other certain economists were saying that capitalism will always bring wars no matter the costs.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday August 03 2019, @07:40AM (16 children)
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @08:51AM (2 children)
Inspector Clouseau, I presume? Or who is it that you are not quite outing, janrinok? There are only five regular commentors on SoylentNews, and Runaway is asleep, c0lo just going to bed, khallow has posted his last journal, and Eth is in his cups again. So that only leaves, martyb? Oh, the cad!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @08:54AM
I was referring to the comment, not to the story.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @12:37PM
i am not regular? dammit! fiber diet for the next two weeks then :(
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Saturday August 03 2019, @12:54PM (3 children)
How do you look up who probably modded a comment?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:23PM (2 children)
IIRC the admins can see who does what to which comments.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Saturday August 03 2019, @08:36PM (1 child)
Ah. And I'm not an admin, so I can't see.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 04 2019, @05:43AM
SN is always in need of more volunteers. If fluffing isn't your thing there is always editing, UI testing, coding, development, infrastructure. Ask one of the admins or visit the test site or log onto the IRC channel.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @03:08PM (8 children)
Does SN have policy about volunteer admins abusing their powers to dox anonymous cowards?
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:47PM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 04 2019, @06:10AM
This "AC" guy. He is like everywhere man. You never know who he's going to be one minute to the next. Now we know. The information is Out There. We have the truth.
His name is: Anonymous Coward.
He is a time traveler, or just capable of bouncing around the planet instantaneously. Logging in from many countries, sometimes seemingly at once, this person takes on many forms, appears to be many people, but now we know, this is just a rare case of multi-manifestation of split personality disorder. We must help this person. Reign in their behavior. Help them accept who they are. If need be, and if all else fails, find a nice padded room with a new coat with long sleeves for them. To help them. To help us. To help us all.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday August 03 2019, @04:53PM (3 children)
Part of our job is to manage the site and that includes checking on the use of moderation abuse. One of the common techniques is to post as an AC and then log in to moderate it up, giving the appearance of support for the AC's comment. My comment is intended to let the member know that we can see what he/she is doing and, hopefully, to dissuade them from continuing to do more of the same. In this case it hasn't worked because he/she has used the same technique in other stories.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @05:25PM (2 children)
With everybody getting only ten mod points a day, is that such a problem? If a post is without merit, others can downmod.
You're have alluded openly to being able to deanonymize posters due to your position. There is enough partisan hatred on this site that I feel without clear guidance eventually some volunteer with a big enough political chip on their shoulder is going to get so offended they will use their powers to dox someone who posted something they didn't like. The possibility of that kind of chilling effect felt much much less probable on the Green Site.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday August 03 2019, @05:57PM (1 child)
Potentially yes. Many people in our community filter the comments so that only those that meet a certain moderation value will be seen. This is an attempt to get rid of the trolling and other unwanted comments that appear from time to time. Imagine that you post something that someone else (who also runs several sock-puppets) takes a disliking to. They can use their sock-puppets to downmod your comment to 0, where many people will not see it, and they can use their own user id to counter any individual attempt to mod it higher. For example, having posted your comment and subsequently finding it sitting at 0, you might log in and moderate it up to counter the 'unfair moderation, that you perceive to be happening. While it sits at 0 then your comment would only be seen by a handful of our community.
Others abuse the system by posting something as AC that might invoke a bad response and use their public user ID to lift it off 0 where many people will not see it. If there is a bad response they can always claim that they didn't post the original comment and that their up-mod to it was a incorrect moderation typo.
We want this site to generate intelligent discussion. We do not care who holds what views. The moderation system that we employ is not perfect and there are regular threads that end up discussing various alternatives. The moderation system works well when members of our community use it to identify good and interesting comments rather than just down modding those that they do not like. But moderation abuse is a problem and one that we need to be aware of. However, we do not take action lightly and, as far as I know, we always give public hints or private warnings before considering anything more drastic, unless the abuse is preventing the site from functioning as intended.
Changes to the current moderation system can only be addressed when we have significantly more technical support than we have at present. Many of our devs, techies and admins are very busy with their private lives and real world problems; we simply cannot implement any changes in the immediate future.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Saturday August 03 2019, @08:42PM
I have set my threshold so I see everything. But I'd sometimes like to see the moderation status before I consider reading something. Yes, I can see the number if I *look* for it. But might it be possible to display it more visibly by, say, using a different colour for the entire comment?
No, even if it's decided this would be a good idea, I don't expect anyone to actually have the time to do it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 04 2019, @05:38AM (1 child)
Can you really call it doxing? All they have is an IP address and an email address.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 04 2019, @03:46PM
Yes you could possibly. Say a new admin really didn't like Ethanol Fueled, and let it out that he was, say, browsing from a Lockheed IP address.
He could lose his job from a resulting shit storm.
SN doesn't have to go full CoC, but a simple expectation that volunteers will use their powers reasonably for the site, and not to help in petty personal grudges, would be a good thing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @01:45PM (1 child)
It is a technical end of Gorbachev treason.
(Score: 2) by legont on Sunday August 04 2019, @04:13AM
No matter what you said or implied, it is sure the end of the Russian Perestroika. This epoch is over and the new one is breaking in.
Brace for the impact.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 03 2019, @09:41PM
i guess someone has to put a "cheap" and effective stop to the development of the next super fast, super stealthy and super sensor integration manned jet aircraft.
"you know what? i'm not gonna spend that much R&D, instead i am going to fuse my radar array together, throw a A.eye into it and shot a cheap rocket at your flying 100 million dollars ..."
it is not unheard of that a leader of a country sees "his" money disappear into a domestic sinkhole to seek help from his enemies to put a stop to it. especially if s/he has at least a tiny fiber of being interested in the public good of his/her country ...
up next in the news:"Loud [news] roaring sound of real invisible overflying multi million jet fighter shakes beams of old financially stressed bridge lose, sending consignment of fresh paint into river"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 04 2019, @06:16AM (1 child)
Here I was thinking that it would be the Ruskies getting out of hand, China using the Belt and Road to expand territory or being held to account for Taiwan or Hong Kong or Tibet, or Muslims deciding one day to kill everyone everywhere. No. It will be nukes. Thanks, America. You were supposed to be the World Police.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday August 05 2019, @05:08PM
Fat lot of good it did, being the "World Police". Try to do something, and everyone tells you why what you're doing is bad or how you're doing it wrong.
RE: Muslims, yeah, they've already got that worldview. They're just not suicidal enough to go through with it 100% of the time and/or there's some more moderate viewpoints keeping them in check.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"