from the speaking-to-others-that-way-though dept.
Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:
We credit Socrates with the insight that 'the unexamined life is not worth living' and that to 'know thyself' is the path to true wisdom. But is there a right and a wrong way to go about such self-reflection?
Simple rumination – the process of churning your concerns around in your head – isn't the answer. It's likely to cause you to become stuck in the rut of your own thoughts and immersed in the emotions that might be leading you astray. Certainly, research has shown that people who are prone to rumination also often suffer from impaired decision making under pressure, and are at a substantially increased risk of depression.
Instead, the scientific research suggests that you should adopt an ancient rhetorical method favoured by the likes of Julius Caesar and known as 'illeism' – or speaking about yourself in the third person (the term was coined in 1809 by the poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge from the Latin ille meaning 'he, that'). If I was considering an argument that I'd had with a friend, for instance, I might start by silently thinking to myself: 'David felt frustrated that...' The idea is that this small change in perspective can clear your emotional fog, allowing you to see past your biases.
A bulk of research has already shown that this kind of third-person thinking can temporarily improve decision making. Now a preprint at PsyArxiv finds that it can also bring long-term benefits to thinking and emotional regulation. The researchers said this was 'the first evidence that wisdom-related cognitive and affective processes can be trained in daily life, and of how to do so'.
The findings are the brainchild of the psychologist Igor Grossmann at the University of Waterloo in Canada, whose work on the psychology of wisdom was one of the inspirations for my recent book on intelligence and how we can make wiser decisions.
-- submitted from IRC
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 12 2019, @11:14AM
This meat unit feels that's a lot of bullshit. Anecdotally.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 12 2019, @11:28AM (1 child)
Didn't George Costanza refer to himself in the third person at times? Was George on to something?
Alas, our tweeter-in-chief also likes to refer to himself in the third person, so that pretty much flushes the theory down the tubes.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Freeman on Monday August 12 2019, @06:25PM
Just imagine what it would be like, if he didn't refer to himself in the third person.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0, Interesting) by c0lo on Monday August 12 2019, @12:22PM (15 children)
Riiight, there's the incel.
Try referring to yourself at 3rd person when at a live music concert for the genre of music you like the most: "he was in the audience and had such a good time". Only one step from "he just had the best orgasm of his last year"
(point: most of the things worth living for are simply worth living them rather than explaining them, 3rd person or not)
Letting the subjective sensations aside, have you ever wondered pondered on the subtle different meanings of words associated with cognitive function: smart, wise, intelligent, clever?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by coolgopher on Monday August 12 2019, @12:47PM (7 children)
Rough take/simplification from my mental model:
smart: doesn't know everything, but can get themselves out of trouble in the real world
wise: knows and understands many things, and how they apply in the real world
intelligent: capacity for knowing and understanding many things, but possibly not as they apply in the real world
clever: knows and understands things to the point where they can get themselves *into* trouble in the real world
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday August 12 2019, @01:50PM (6 children)
I'm afraid your "clever" simplification is a bit contorted/forced by the "in real world" pattern you used in the prev 3.
(you were thinking at "too clever for your own good"? I heard it more in the "too smart for..." form, drawing from the fact that the smarties always search for something quick and getting into troubles when no quick solution exist)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Funny) by khallow on Monday August 12 2019, @02:27PM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Tuesday August 13 2019, @01:55AM
Everybody needs a bit of escapism.
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Tuesday August 13 2019, @01:54AM (3 children)
Nah, it was more drawn from personal experience in software dev. Clever solutions can be neat and efficient, but over time they rarely turn out to have been worth it because of increased maintenance headache. K.I.S.S. Clever hacks certainly have their place, but they also have their cost.
But yeah, I guess clever to me also carries the notion of having an unexpected approach to a problem. Or in the words of the much overused adage - "thinking outside the box".
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:06AM (2 children)
To me, 'smart' is associated with hackery (taking advantage of problem peculiarities for a quick shortcut), 'clever' is taking an ingenious yet sound conceptualization of the problem when solving it - thus the capacity for future extensions is preserved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:25AM (1 child)
Interesting. The nuances of language is fascinating. It also makes me wonder how the hell any form of successful communication is possible, much like everything else in the world actually working... =)
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:43AM
Well, specifically for this case, both of the words carry the "out-of-the-box" connotation.
But I'll give you the reason for which the "smart"/"clever" works better in my choice of meaning: I heard many time the "smarty pants" used as a pejorative, but "clever pants"? Never.
(yes, the "why! Aren't you clever?", loaded with sarcasm to switch to the negative, works. But "smarty pants" is sorta saying "You are acting as a kid, little or no experience, no wonder you got this ridiculously wrong")
I don't know, maybe because nuances come in play after the "bulk" of meaning is conveyed? Sorta like Pareto, the last 20% are contributed by nuances but you still have the 80% meaning to operate with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday August 12 2019, @01:01PM (3 children)
Quite a bit, yes. D&D had it dead on the money too, wisdom and intelligence have little to nothing to do with each other. An intelligent person might take a stove apart to fix it and be confident they'd at least not break it worse even if they knew almost nothing about them, a wise person would wait for it to cool down and unplug it or shut off the gas first. Smart's pretty much a synonym for intelligence but it can also cover acquired knowledge as well, which is not the same as simple bloody-mindedness can acquire you most any knowledge you want eventually. Clever, to me, implies a fair amount of unexpectedness in demonstration of intelligence, possibly with an aspect of swiftness. Like the old preacher man who told me to wrap sewing thread around my dough bait and it would stay on the hook a lot better; that's really fucking clever.
I'm also curious as to how they quantified wisdom for empirical measurements. That's not something easily done outside RPGs.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Mer on Monday August 12 2019, @03:19PM (2 children)
DnD has very few things right besides making the distinction between WIS and INT.
INT makes you magically learn languages, facts and history that you've never had any contact with, increases magical ability and increases your learning ability for any skill.
WIS makes you better at getting hit by magic rays.
Shut up!, he explained.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Monday August 12 2019, @10:30PM
I asked the other voices in my head, but my coworkers complained about them talking too loudly ;-)
It's pretty self-evident that we can get into a rut when thinking about our personal problems, because the potential negatives and the emotional impact of the causes are sometimes just too much for us to see beyond them. That's why victims of violent crimes often develop anxiety and depression - both of which are normal reactions to, for example, rape. You'd have to be a psychopath not to be affected.
That's why it helps to talk to someone else (and what this technology might duplicate) - thinking about it a step away from the immediate personal emotional impact.
Of course, there are things that are just so terrible that even thinking about it has to be dealt with as "a memory of a memory " that's off limits even to think about. That's when thinking about it in a depersonalized way and basically packing it in a box with a big off limits sign is sometimes the only way. Some things people just aren't capable of dealing with.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 13 2019, @01:33AM
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Monday August 12 2019, @01:38PM
Since there are two [soylentnews.org] other [soylentnews.org] comments touching the topic, her's my take on the basic/definitive traits of the 4 terms:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Touché) by Mer on Monday August 12 2019, @03:11PM (1 child)
Talking to yourself != narrating your life.
When I talk to myself it's usually inquisitive, chastizing or snarky.
Shut up!, he explained.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday August 12 2019, @09:23PM
Nothing wrong with talking to yourself when cognition is involved.
By something is wrong if you are talking to yourself when you have sex.
Point: there are things in this life when you need to let cognition aside to have a full experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 12 2019, @12:30PM (4 children)
The pseudoscientists who produce this type of garbage are the biggest threat to science out there. And what is with the paper only being downloaded as a docx? https://psyarxiv.com/a5fgu [psyarxiv.com]
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by c0lo on Monday August 12 2019, @01:07PM (3 children)
What's so wrong with that? In particular,
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 12 2019, @02:22PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by BsAtHome on Monday August 12 2019, @02:29PM (1 child)
"Our API is currently unavailable"
Do you have another PDF link?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday August 12 2019, @03:03PM
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 12 2019, @12:31PM (8 children)
Considering accumulated deeds of Gaius Julius Caesar caused extremely decadent epoch of ancient Rome and eventually caused destruction of whole civilization, bringing Dark Age to nations of West for many centuries, I do not consider such a model of decoupled thinking to be a good tool of wisdom. I consider this is just a workaround for conscience mental function, which is typical for all criminals to whom conscience is just a nagging obstacle.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday August 12 2019, @02:44PM (1 child)
I've always suspected as much. If not for Caesar, Rome would have lasted another 2000 years, at least. /sarcasm
Is that your serious take on the man, or you just threw that out for reactions?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday August 12 2019, @08:05PM
Yes, the Roman Republic was in decay mode. J.C., however, was the instigator of its collapse into something much worse. It would have collapsed anyway, and probably in no more than a couple of decades. But it might not have collapsed into something quite as bad....or into something that would have recovered more quickly.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 12 2019, @02:56PM (3 children)
You, sir, just won the prize of the most idiotic S/N comment of the day.
Western civilization? By civilization you mean something "apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health"?
'Cause guess what? All the above were brought to the western barbarians in Caesar's campaigns [wikipedia.org]. If not for him the "western civilization" would still drink the Koolaid their druids fed them [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 4, Funny) by nitehawk214 on Monday August 12 2019, @03:54PM (1 child)
Yes, yes, the roads. But aside from that; what have the Romans done for us?
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 12 2019, @04:59PM
The Super Bowl would use Arabic Numerals?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 13 2019, @01:36AM
Most of that (as in everything but wine) was discontinued for centuries throughout the western half (and a good portion of the Eastern half) when the Dark Ages happened.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 12 2019, @05:15PM
You've got Gaul.
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:11AM
I blame Romulus and Remus myself. If they hadn't founded Rome in the first place then it never would've fallen.
Same with that asshole George Washington being directly responsible for Trump.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by inertnet on Monday August 12 2019, @01:11PM
I like the 'helicopter view' method much better. When things get really complicated, try to rise above the situation and get a helicopter view. See more aspects, including points of view of other people. Added benefit: if you feel stuck, you're likely to be freed by this mental movement.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Alfred on Monday August 12 2019, @01:51PM
(Score: 3, Funny) by ElizabethGreene on Monday August 12 2019, @02:58PM (3 children)
In a future experiment they should see if the effect increases when participants are encouraged to think this third person feedback in Morgan Freeman's voice.
(Score: 2) by Revek on Monday August 12 2019, @03:30PM (2 children)
My third persons voice is more like Bill Murray.
This page was generated by a Swarm of Roaming Elephants
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday August 12 2019, @03:54PM (1 child)
Mine sounds like Denis Leary.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 12 2019, @05:03PM
Mine is like Foster Brooks.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Monday August 12 2019, @03:52PM
Dr. McKay:
(...) I think I figured a way out of here!
Dr. Jackson:
Really ?
Dr. McKay:
This is an Ancient facility, and Rodney McKay knows a thing or two about Ancient facilities.
Dr. Jackson:
You know it has been clinically proven that referring to yourself in the third person is a sign of mental instability.
Dr. McKay:
Mentally unstable like a fox. [quotes.net]
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 2) by Hartree on Monday August 12 2019, @04:36PM
Hartree Personality 1: Shut up Hartree! You don't know what you're talking abut!
Hartree Personality 2: Hartree that's just you HAVING to be right, isn't it?
Hartree Personality 3: Screw it. Hartree, chill out and go get a cup of coffee!
Hartree Personalities 1 and 2: Sounds good.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday August 12 2019, @05:12PM
The Editors, in their third-person-talking wisdom, are not really consistent in their criteria.
#editorial | Logs for 2019-08-05
(Score: 3, Funny) by Rupert Pupnick on Monday August 12 2019, @06:26PM
Clearly they need to make this a feature in that neuromuscular speech gadget that was reported here in SN a week or so ago.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 12 2019, @08:19PM
I would have enjoyed reading Michael David Crawford's comment(s) on this article.
RIP MDC.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Tuesday August 13 2019, @01:40AM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.