The City of Bonavista has taken a new approach to dealing with airbnb hosts who represent unfair competition for hotels and bread-and-breakfast ins because they don't pay business taxes. They cut your sewer and water lines.
Bonavista cuts off services for Airbnb operators with unpaid business tax bills.
"We have gone to some pretty serious measures to collect. We have literally dug up driveways and turned off water (and) sewer service until the bill is paid, cutting them off completely from all municipal services.
-- Mayor John Norman
If people can't even drive their car onto your property, take a shower, use the toilet, you're pretty motivated to pony up.
The mayor said the taxation method has been successful, but he acknowledges not all Airbnb owners are pleased.
"I don't think some are happy about it, but it is what it is."
This is a pretty effective fix to unfair competition by airbnb hosts. The next question is, how can we apply the same thinking to uber and lyft?
Related Stories
Airbnb bans 'party houses' after five die in Halloween shooting
Airbnb has said it will ban "party houses" after a mass shooting at a California home rented through the company left five people dead.
CEO Brian Chesky said in a tweet the company would take steps to "combat unauthorized parties and get rid of abusive host and guest conduct". "We must do better, and we will. This is unacceptable," Mr Chesky added.
Three people died at the house, in the city of Orinda, near San Francisco, and two more died later in hospital. The house was reportedly booked under a pretence for a small group, before being publicised on Instagram as the venue for a Halloween party which eventually drew a crowd of more than 100 people. The host did not authorise the party, Airbnb said.
[...] Mr Chesky said Airbnb would create a dedicated "party house" rapid response team and expand manual screening of high-risk reservations. The company, which is expected to float on the stock market in 2020, would also take action against users who violated its policies, he said.
See also: Here's Why Airbnb's Latest Losses Won't Necessarily Hurt Its 2020 IPO
Related: Airbnb is Suing NYC to Keep From Sharing Host Data
Family Finds Hidden Camera in Airbnb's Smoke Alarm
Airbnb Host? Don't Pay Business Taxes? City Digs Up Your Sewer and Water.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 10 2019, @11:57PM (4 children)
I had a cuntstomer refuse to pay the quoted price on fanbelt replacement after the work was done. Manager pulls out a knife and cuts the belts off his car, gave him directions to the nearest beach and told him to pound sand up his ass.
(Score: 0, Interesting) by khallow on Wednesday September 11 2019, @04:12AM (3 children)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:13PM (2 children)
Wrong. Airbnb, by not paying legitimate taxes, erode the tax base.
Airbnb destroys communities when it takes over entire city blocks. Temporary visitors don't buy monthly bus passes, don't do their weekly grocery orders, don't volunteer with local community groups, and they increase costs to the taxpayers because of noise and other complaints.
Nobody wants to have a neighbour who is running an Airbnb. You have no more right to run an Airbnb in a residential zone than you do to run an abattoir or a car assembly plant or a body shop.
The beauty of this approach is that cities have more power to deal with recalcitrant tenants who run illegal short-term rentals than landlords do. The landlord has to go through the courts. The city can just send an inspector, see that the place is being used contrary to municipal bylaws, and turn off the water.
Don't like it - move to a city that allows short-term rentals without requiring a permit.
But don't be surprised that those cities can't afford proper public transit, police, and fire, because they haven't got the tax base.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @05:48PM
fuck the city and their tax base. fuck a business tax. what people do to make money is none of the parasites' business. Why don't those pieces of shit learn a skill and get a fucking job? those goddamn thieves have more than enough money already.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday September 12 2019, @12:50AM
Let us note that the Airbnb places still pay taxes and hence the tax base is still there. They just don't pay as much as the town would like.
I suspect more that those cities won't be able to afford your list because they're corrupt, valuing the protection of various cartels over the low cost provision of services that the community relies on.
I'm good with that. May the best community win.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @12:41AM (22 children)
Nothing wrong with this mayor that a chainsaw wouldn't fix ...
(Score: 0, Troll) by exaeta on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:20AM (21 children)
I agree. This whole "unfair competition" rhetoric masks the real suffering and poverty caused by governmental corruption. In every instance of corruption, real people end up dying as a result of economic effects. There is always someone on the line between life and death and every instance of corruption pushes some people into the death category. It's an evil that should never be ignored.
The Government is a Bird
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @03:51AM (16 children)
Don't want to pay taxes? Go somewhere that doesn't charge them.
Otherwise, shut the fuck up.
I'm sure there are many places in the Mojave desert or up in the Northern Territories where no taxes are levied. Good luck with that.
(Score: -1, Troll) by khallow on Wednesday September 11 2019, @04:18AM (14 children)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @05:06AM (11 children)
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll put it in an appropriate place.
Way to non-sequitur, khallow! Good show.
I don't live in Canada, but while their parliamentary system is a bit different from that in the US, the concept that folks get elected to *represent* the populace and make decisions on their behalf is pretty much the same.
The idea of taxes (whether they be sales, property or business) is pretty widespread. This particular place has implemented a "business tax" that those who operate a business are required to pay.
Renting out space, whether it's commercial real estate, flats, hotel rooms or part of your house via Air-BNB are all businesses. As such, they are required to pay this "business tax." Whether that's right or wrong is irrelevant, as those who have been elected to represent the populace have decided that's the law.
It appears that the government of this town has determined that if you're not paying the taxes that fund the water/sewer systems, you forfeit the right to use them.
Is that good or bad? I make no judgement about that. It's the law. Don't like the law? Elect folks who will change it. Easy peasy.
And if that's too much trouble, you can take Professor Bernardo de la Paz's point of view:
In the real world, when one breaks the rules, there are generally consequences. In this case, the consequence is losing access to water and sewer services unless and until you pay the taxes due.
Exaeta appears to want folks to have access to resources that are funded by tax money, but doesn't believe they should pay for those services. I think that's parasitical and it disgusts me.
Don't like it? Too fucking bad.
(Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Wednesday September 11 2019, @11:43AM (10 children)
"Our own formula" is just making up shit at this point. I bet that's not the law. Plus, is renting out a room a business or not? I bet it's not.
Sounds pretty ridiculous to me. Shaking down people just because they have Airbnb entries and there's enough money there for a full time staff member to get involved.
Second, as the poster noted, even when things are legal, bad law can hurt people. While it's good that you at least recognize that bad law should be changed, this often is done by breaking it. This story is very soft on what sort of property taxes are allegedly being evaded. But given the "unfair" talk, it sounds like they're high enough that businesses shouldn't be paying them either.
Note how bad law works here. Because the business rate is higher than the residential rate, the city has yet another excuse to monitor everyone, cut essential services, and in general be assholes just because the tax differential exists. As the earlier poster noted, that does harm and kill people even if we can't see it.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:37PM (5 children)
The law is being applied to illegal Airbnb operators who don't pay their taxes. How is using Airbnb listings to find illegal operators any different from looking on Kijiji or Amazon to catch illegal counterfeit knockoffs?
First rule of breaking the law - don't do it in public, because you're more likely to get caught.
Second rule of breaking the law - the consequences are that all the income taxes you dodged at the provincial/state/territorial and federal law are probably going to have to be paid.
Don't want to pay taxes, move to Somalia. They won't cut off your water or sewer because they don't have either.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @02:47PM (1 child)
Northern Somalia is actually quite nice. My nephew and his father recently visited, and had a great time.
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somaliland&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwi3o76BgMnkAhUGJzQIHVWvCRIQFjALegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1XzfsR-DGUJBrrvrmU584n [google.com]
As for southern Somalia, if it wasn't for western Europe, Russia, and the US stealing all the fish from their territorial waters, then dumping their trash in said waters (including, from Russia, nuclear waste), the fisherfolk of Somalia would still be able to make a living fishing. Without fishing being viable, and with mariner skills, piracy became an attractive option.
Yes, of course, I get the point you were trying to make, but your example isn't really true for all of Somalia, and for the parts it is, there is a pretty terrible back-story of abuse by rich nations that forced the situation.
(Score: 2) by Pav on Thursday September 12 2019, @08:50AM
Maybe if they had a bigger tax base they'd be able to patrol their territorial waters.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday September 12 2019, @10:28AM (2 children)
There's no regulation outlawing Airbnb operators in this town. You're not even on the right page. Let me reiteration my objections given your present objections: 1) Airbnb operation is legal, 2) renting to others is not in itself a business, thus 3) being an Airbnb operator is not in itself a business. Hence, 4) no actual tax evasion has been demonstrated, it's an interpretation of the law by this town's government. A large part of the problem here is 5) that the town is taxing businesses more than residences. If 6) they didn't do that, they'd still have the tax base and 7) no reason to meddle in the affairs of Airbnb operators, creating barriers to providing temporary housing for people who need it.
You do realize that Somalia is better off now than when they had a unified national level government?
I find it interesting how this is all interpreted as paying taxes for civilization rather than the local nazis in power jerking peoples' chains in order to protect some local business cartels. Needless to say, I don't share that interpretation.
(Score: 3, Informative) by barbara hudson on Thursday September 12 2019, @11:28PM (1 child)
Being an Airbnb host is a business in Canada. Renting a spare bedroom to someone long term isn't, unless it's to more than two people or more than two rooms, in which case it's also classified as a business.
You can have fo people rent and share a house, but all 4 names have to be on the lease. If only one is, the other three are considered as rental income to the person or persons on the lease.
That's the law here, don't like it, don't ask for the benefits of it, like running water, working sewers, and a level playing field for business competitors.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @02:56AM
What necessary permits? No necessary permits makes that statement just as true.
No, if you read the story, you'll find it's alleged nonpayment of taxes.
Unless, it's not, of course. I don't buy your assertion here.
This is why.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @06:58PM (3 children)
I recognize no such thing. In fact, I explicitly said:
Don't put words in my mouth khallow.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday September 11 2019, @10:33PM (2 children)
[...]
So perhaps ou're saying bad law shouldn't be changed? I'm curious what was different about the words that I "put in your mouth" than what you actually said.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday September 12 2019, @11:33PM (1 child)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @03:20AM
And you keep asserting without evidence such things. As you admitted [soylentnews.org], long term rental is not a business even though it charges money and isn't a charity. What makes informal short term rental any different? Why does the time frame matter? The logic just isn't there to support your arguments.
Note that the AC poster has disavowed nothing. Sure, there's the disavowal, but it doesn't actually disavow anything. My view is that any words that I "put" in the AC's mouth were the words of the AC poster. If they don't like that, then maybe they should have said something different instead. It's not a straw man, if you actually said it.
A poster's inability to argue rationally is not my troll. You can't even show basic premises like that Airbnb participation is automatically a business despite repeated assertion. How can we define a business that excludes renting a spare bedroom long term, but not renting a spare bedroom short term? How about if the landlord is using Airbnb to manage their long term rental of the spare bedroom. Does that become a business then?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @06:19AM (1 child)
Poor khallow is butthurt again! Makes you wonder why he sticks around. . . unless he enjoys it?
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @10:24AM
Can't be again when one is always.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @05:53PM
fuck you, you suck ass whore. as soon as you move and do all the work to build the place up, some leach piece of shit moves in and starts "improving things". just look at alaska. counties with no property tax and canadian and american state socialist scum moving in and running up the taxes everywhere. the small entrepreneur was there first. the parasite is an invader who should be run out of town at first sight or worse. too bad people are too dumb and fall for these professional liars.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:30PM (3 children)
The city is spending $10 billion on public transit improvements over the next 5 years. We've already upgraded the bus fleet to hybrids with air conditioning, and increased frequency of operation. We're adding 800 electric buses, which will be even quieter, a $5 billion regional light rail system that can move 100,000 people an hour (upgradable to 240,000 people an hour if needed) between stations, a new $800 million dollar maintenance facility and garage, and new subway extensions.
Canada is hardly a shithole. We pay for these muncipal improvements through (gasp) taxes. Hotels and inns pay their fair share, Airbnb operators don't (and generally dodge all income taxes).
We also have universal health care, something that every other G7 country except the US has. In my province we have a universal public drug insurance plan which everyone has to sign up for who doesn't have a private plan, and pay the premium.
Ironically, most people on private plans are pissed off that their private insurance costs more and covers less than the public plan (well, yeah, the profits have to come from somewhere, whereas the public plan is no-profit), and would love to be able to switch, but the law is, your company offers a private plan, you have to take it.
This was a sop to private insurance companies. One that it turns out was stupidly expensive for their users.
So, where I live, I have public transit that is usually within a minute of the schedule (gps and computer routing letting the driver know if they're running early or late), no bills when you leave the hospital, no insurance forms while waiting to be admitted - just show your health insurance card, nobody dying because they can't afford insulin.
Yep, Canada is a real shithole. Not like, say, Chicago or Washington, DC. Or the MAGA states.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @11:42PM (2 children)
Let's be accurate, shall we? The profit motive isn't the most expensive cost of a business nor will it's absence make the other costs magically go away. If you're seeing a huge drop in cost with the public plan, it's because they're plugging the holes with other peoples' money.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Sunday September 15 2019, @12:33AM (1 child)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday September 16 2019, @02:00AM
My view here is that the prime value of the business sectors that Airbnb and Uber are in is that they route around some serious economic damage in our societies. It's not Chinese investors buying up our precious homes that is the problem in places like Vancouver. It's the decades of regulations and obstructions. Orwellian two minute hates against "foreign owners" may feel good, but it's a sign that you're doing something wrong [xkcd.com] even if we don't know the particulars of your situation.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @12:48AM (3 children)
Mayor is drunk on screech half the time and buggering moose the other half. Who would want to visit that godawful shithole. And they don't even have a mosque.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:46PM (1 child)
Try it in your morning coffee. You sound like you could use a shot or three :-)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 12 2019, @05:00PM
You need a whole bottle after your lies and incompetence shown here barbarahudson https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] where you were destroyed by APK on Pascal vs. C/C++ you were unaware of on string related buffer overflows, hosts files APK actually did useful effective work in (you don't), and you being caught STALKING apk by unidentifiable anonymous posts your own words quoted PROVE you do. You are a mentalcase deluding itself you are a real woman. Clue moron: You are not and never WILL be.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday September 12 2019, @12:33AM
I don't see a problem with that, myself. Moose is fine, if properly tenderized. Screech is an excellent, mellow rum. The effect of drinking it is not at all what the name implies.
Lastly, Newfies out-nice the rest of Canada; just think about that, they're so nice that they actually make a visitor start to think about what a bunch of whiny dicks Albertans are. That's, like, industrial strength nice right there.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Disagree) by exaeta on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:09AM (36 children)
The Government is a Bird
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:12AM
Water? Pfft. Now electricity and internet, those are human rights not to be violated.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:53AM (25 children)
This is what I thought too. Further, this is destructive, "an eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind" justice. It's like settling an ownership dispute by destroying the property in question so that neither disputant gets it. How much does it cost to dig up sewer and water lines, and then repair them and the driveway that was torn up once the owner pays? Maybe more than the unpaid amounts?
I'd be clamoring for lawsuits and a special election if my city started wasting my tax dollars on such mean spirited fake justice, as well as showing such blatant partisanship for big box motel chains.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 11 2019, @02:54AM (24 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @05:12AM (1 child)
And I'm entitled to build a honey-bucket and a trebuchet.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by janrinok on Wednesday September 11 2019, @07:56AM
Yes you are, but you are not entitled to use it against anyone. Even spreading the contents of your honey bucket will probably be breaking several health and environmental laws.
But I do hope you enjoy building it... Pics or it didn't happen!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @05:14AM (5 children)
Under a grand to dig up a driveway and then replace a driveway?
Is your "grand" the same as my "grand?"
That would be close to ten grand in my world.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 11 2019, @03:49PM (2 children)
Digging up and replacing existing sewer lines between the city boundary and a home is only a one-day job. I know because my first real job after college, a friend convinced me to buy a pickup and go into contracting. Bought a backhoe, and when he came by to help me on what he thought would be a two day job for two people, I was just finishing up. Nobody had told me it would take two people two days. Even included time for the city to inspect my work, so no corners cut.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Thursday September 12 2019, @02:01AM (1 child)
Seems a case of negotiation power. A homeowner probably can't get a contractor to do a job like that for less than $3000, but city employees can do it for less than $1000 cost to the city.
But why not cut the water by just shuting and padlocking the valve at the water main? Several hundred dollars may be peanuts to a city, but still, lots cheaper and faster to just turn a valve.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday September 12 2019, @11:53PM
A lot of places don't meter water (it's Canada, water is usually a flat rate for homes), and the shutoff valve at the city boundary is not designed to be locked. It's buried, and you need a pentagonal socket to remove the bolt blocking it - and a 6' long extension to work the valve. Usually it's a two-in-one tool. Any contractor can order one. So shutting off the water at the valve doesn't mean that it stays shut.
The valve is city property,so they just dig it up at the property line, close it, and remove the hollow pipe that allows access to turn if off and on. Anyone digging it up to turn it back on without authorization is committing a criminal offence - vandalism of city property and theft of service, so most contractors won't touch it no matter how much money the owner offers to fix it illegally.
It's not the same as when you access it in the course of regular repairs, where the city hasn't turned it off. In such cases, you should have a good enough working relationship with public works that they trust you not to screw things up. After a while, they'll even let you self-certify that the work was done without an inspection. Just don't fuck it up by trying to cut corners or be the lowball bidder.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 11 2019, @05:33PM (1 child)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 12 2019, @04:56PM
Odd you say that barbarahudson when APK proved in a quote of yours you stalked him by unidentifiable anonymous posts for years + that you are less than an amateur at coding with your errors on C/C++ vs. Pascal in string related buffer overflows Pascal has no issue with https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Troll) by shortscreen on Wednesday September 11 2019, @05:46AM (1 child)
Just because cities can get away with this doesn't mean it's a smart move. It's counter productive and could come back to bite them. Let's say the property value isn't all that high to begin with, and now the owner is stuck with back taxes, penalties, and a repair bill for damage caused by the city. They might say eff it and strip the house of anything of value, leave it to rot and never pay those bills. The city can seize it and try to sell it at auction but now the property is junk. Congrats, you're one step closer to being Detroit. (I've heard stories that were quite similar to this)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @06:00AM
No, because the next guy will buy the property at a significantly reduced value, pay to have the services reconnected and repairs made. Then either sell the property at face value, or turn it into a B&B and afford to pay taxes since he's probably not mortgaged to the hilt after overpaying for the property.
No Detroit. And no non-payment of water and sewage rates.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday September 11 2019, @11:54AM (13 children)
Except when they aren't so entitled. Not every water and sewer utility is run by the city in which it operates. This conflict of interest, and the abuses detailed in the story, are a good reason to have that separation - keep in mind the city could have just legally seized the property for non-payment, but that would have opened the whole scheme to the courts.
Nor have we established that there is non-payment of taxes. The town's government decides what your "business" is worth, decides that you haven't paid taxes based on this supposition, and plays these sorts of games without any sort of legal review.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:00PM (12 children)
Airbnb is a huge tax dodge at all levels of government. Most hosts don't declare their income, even when they're running 100 properties. Why should they get away with avoiding the costs that legit operators such as hotels, motels, and bread and breakfasts have to pay?
Nobody likes to be a neighbour to an Airbnb. They destroy residential apartment buildings and condos for the other users, and their operation is flat-out illegal. Cities are finding different ways to stomp out these cockroaches.
Check out Vancouver, BC., where Airbnb operators have taken over entire city blocks of apartment buildings. It's a disaster to the few legitimate tenants left. Especially since the new building owners are not shy to use illegal tactics to evict the few tenants who refuse to move.
Politicians have to take action because, unlike in many places in the world, tenants and renters have the right to vote in elections at all levels of government.
You can be sure this mayor will be re-elected. And your example is contrived - the municipal utilities are owned and operated by the city taxpayers - you don't pay your taxes, no service for you.
Same as privately run utilities like internet and satellite tv - don't pay, you're cut off. And unlike when the city cuts off your water, you can't complain to the municipal politicians about your satellite TV being cut, and if you try to go to court because it was cut for non-payment, you'll lose.
This is not the "sharing economy." It's a way to operate illegal businesses that are only profitable because they don't pay the overhead legit operators pay. Legit taxpayers should not be giving these dicks an indirect subsidy by letting them avoid paying taxes.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @05:57PM
fuck you and your fucking taxes, you stupid fucking slave.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday September 11 2019, @10:41PM (10 children)
And if the town hadn't pursued these taxes (not just against the Airbnb folk, but also normal businesses!) there wouldn't have been a problem either.
The town isn't entitled to know your income or invent permits for you to pay either. I find it remarkable how you ignore how intrusive this all is.
If taxes and zoning are so shitty that this works, then Vancouver needs to do a lot more than just obsess over this Emanuel Goldstein. They need more hotels and such and some sane zoning law too. Airbnb can be a great help in working around this damage. Sounds like they already are despite the few alleged victims.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday September 13 2019, @12:02AM (5 children)
Libtards (libertarian retards) rant against taxes but want the benefits. You scream human rights violations but without taxes there's no legal system to pursue human rights violations. You talk big about lawsuits from this but without taxes there's no justice system to file a lawsuit with.
If you can't even troll properly, can't you at least try to be funny?
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @03:27AM (4 children)
And as the story shows, taxes also pay for thugs to shut down your property with a backhoe. Let us sing of the benefits of civilization!
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday September 13 2019, @03:44PM (3 children)
Nothing quite like taking a Cat 966 and scooping up and burying a station wagon in the field after the owner has been warned repeatedly not to park there! The dirt bucket digs a really nice car grave. Dump it in the hole, drive over it a few times to crush it, bury it, smooth it over, and the job is done. 10 minutes of fun. Should have run over it with one of the D9s in the lot first, though. Or just run over it and left it in plain view. Even the engine block would have shattered under that much weight.
Or burying a car that is parked under a no parking sign for the upteenth time under 10 tons of snow and ice and them losing their front end when they try to have it towed out.
Self-entitled shitheads often deserve everything they're asking for.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @10:43PM (2 children)
Who here is surprised?
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday September 13 2019, @11:00PM (1 child)
You've probably never even operated heavy machinery. One of my daught, barely 5'1", 105 pounds, drove a tractor for a decade. She makes you look like a wimp.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @11:32PM
Anything I'm uniformly opposed to would, of course, be a good enough reason for me oppose specific instances. By tautology. Sounds like you'll need to refine that question a bit.
And my take is that economic freedom is far more important than whatever weird thing you have against Airbnb. It's amazing how much tyranny has been excused here merely because it hypothetically helps the trains run on time.
I don't agree that these games are remotely needed to protect Bonavista's tax base (keep in mind that the alleged Airbnb businesses are paying taxes, just not as much as the town would like!) or apartment dwellers in Vancouver. Nor do I agree that taxing foreign investors is a sane idea or that people could live in apartments with the right onerous regulation - after all, how are you going to force landlords to make more apartments and maintain the ones they already have, if they're losing money? It's just more dumb ideas from people who have never gotten an economy to work on their own.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday September 13 2019, @12:07AM (3 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @03:40AM (2 children)
They just keep digging the hole deeper. A huge part of this whole problem is taxing without representation. I'm familiar, having lived in a number of places where tourists frequent, on the near universal exploitation of these tourists with taxes on lodging and such. Sorry, it's not right. I don't buy that tourists use more resources than the locals. It's just a wealth transfer because the city can.
Similarly, we see Vancouver feeding like a tapeworm on external investors. The whole thing is profoundly stupid. My bet is that if this really is a genuine, implemented policy, it'll backfire spectacularly.
Maybe. This whole Vancouver thing sounds remarkably retarded. It's partially legal, but surely, they could do some credible land ownership reform rather than tilt at the Airbnb windmill? I'd start by looking at the zoning and hotel markets. Someone has fucked up there, if they're having this kind of supposed trouble with Airbnb.
It strikes me that a solution to this problem is simply to revoke Vancouver and other cities's ability to do these sorts of things.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday September 13 2019, @03:22PM (1 child)
We're in an election campaign, and Prime Minister Trudeau has announced he will impose a 1% buyers tax on all foreign home buyers.
Foreign buyers taxes work. If you're only going to be using the home for a few weeks a year, you're not supporting the local economy, which is how the roads get paved and repaired, the traffic lights keep working, and the police keep getting paid to keep vandals from squatting in your pied-a-terre.
A 15% tax on new foreign buyers is fair. Some places, such as New Zealand, have put an outright ban on new foreign buyers, so the rich had better stop counting on fleeing there in the event of a nuclear war and start actively trying to avoid one, even if it means they make less money off war industries.
You're not a resident, you don't get representation. Don't like it, vote with your money by buying elsewhere (which is what the law is designed to encourage you to do). Block after block of housing that looks abandoned for most of the year is a huge burden - they've also imposed an additional annual tax on homes that don't have permanent residents living in them. Guess what - those homes quickly got rented out to full-time renters at below market value just to avoid the tax.
Taxation can lead to greater availability of housing stock, and this demonstrates it. Don't be surprised if more cities around the world copy it.
You're not a resident - why should anyone care what you think? The neighbours don't want you living there 1 or 2 weeks a year and leaving a hollow shell the rest of the time. Same as someone living in New York doesn't give a shit what you think if you don't live in New York.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @09:57PM
What are you even trying to fix? I see some talk about creating more available housing, but nothing about how this tax is supposed to do anything for that.
Let us also note that the tax is very easy to bypass. Just have some local front the thing.
Except of course when you're using the home for a few weeks a year, which may well be more support for the local economy than some schmoe living there at below market rate.
For who? You're just looking at it.
Even if this tax were a good idea, it doesn't sound like a foreign owners tax to me. More like a non sequitur. But I suppose if we put a 15% tax on non sequiturs, it would, no doubt, make housing more affordable.
We didn't need that investment in our future anyway, right?
Because they might want to do something for the future of their city or society instead.
My view on this whole thing is that it's the use of regulation to enforce a terrible business model. It's not just existing hotels protecting their market, it's a bunch of people protecting the valuation of their real estate assets by driving out affordable housing.
Apparently, the neighbors do want those taxes though that come from the one or two weeks a year the property is in use. Can't have it both ways.
(Score: 2) by Coward, Anonymous on Wednesday September 11 2019, @02:38AM
They can get their water from a drinking fountain. Human rights are not part of the dispute.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday September 11 2019, @07:34AM
So if I build a house in the middle of nowhere, I can demand that someone supplies clean running water to it? It is a facility for which you have to pay. In most developed countries they provide water, sewage and power wherever it is economic to do so but I don't know anywhere where it is provided for free. And if you fail to pay your bills, the supply is cut. Perhaps not as dramatically as digging up people's driveways but, if that is what is necessary to access the stop cock, so be it.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 11 2019, @01:44PM (5 children)
Since businesses aren't people, there is no standing for a business to bring a human rights complaint.
Humans have human rights. Businesses don't. Simple.
Also, it's pretty standard for all utilities (internet, cable, phone, satellite, electricity, water, gas, etc) that if you don't pay, you get your service cut off in the US, even if you're not a business, so what is the big deal here?
Oh, right, any excuse to have a bit of faux outrage.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday September 12 2019, @01:56AM (4 children)
Corporate personhood is a thing throughout the developed world. You just don't recognize it as such because the law looks somewhat different.
Which is absurd since any actual business consists of people whose human rights you would be violating. They would be the ones with standing.
The targets were paying for their utilities. They got cut off anyway. Would it be any different, if they were being cut off because they were disputing a car repair and refused to pay?
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday September 13 2019, @12:41AM (3 children)
As for your other argument, time for a car analogy. That would be like arguing that you should not have your car impounded because you had no vehicle registration or plates because you made your car payments.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @03:29AM (2 children)
Congrats. You just summed up corporate personhood everywhere. The US is no different in that respect.
I think mine was better.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday September 13 2019, @03:34PM (1 child)
Companies do NOT have human rights in Canada. Anyone is entitled to discriminate against them, they cannot make political donations (same as any other non-citizen), and they have no right to appeal to the various Human Rights commissions, because they don't have human rights.
There is no Citizens United decision in Canada, and never will be, because our Constitution doesn't extend to business rights. Only people.
There's also no Hobby Lobby decision here in Canada, and never will be, because that too would be an unconstitutional extension of freedom of reliegion to businesses. You operate a business, you cannot cite your religious beliefs to deny service to someone. Your options are to either (a) serve them anyway, (b) supply a staff member who will serve the client, or (c) close your business and fuck off.
You're a pharmacist who doesn't want to sell the morning-after pill or birth control pills? Those are your 3 options - and if you refuse to serve someone with a prescription for birth control pills or the morning after pill, the Order of Pharmacists will revoke your license to serve anyone anything. They sent that warning out several years ago in response to a few pharmacists who tried to impose their religious views about abortion and birth control on clients.
Same thing applies to doctors - if your religious beliefs prevent you from rendering service in a particular instance, you are required to find a doctor who will do so, or lose your license to practice medicine.
Human rights don't apply to commercial operations, and both doctors and pharmacists are running businesses, they're not working for free for charity.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @11:09PM
And as I noted the legal persons who own and run the moral person can lay claim.
Saying it doesn't make it true.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @09:42PM
Right to water. Sure. Even clean, potable water that one has access to. OK!
Right to running water? Who said that?
That aside, why does a business deserve that as a right? Because that's what someone running an airBnB is doing: running a business, specifically a hostelry. A business can pay its debts including taxes or receive no services at all.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @04:43AM (1 child)
"bread-and-breakfast ins"
what that?
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday September 11 2019, @05:36PM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @06:11AM (1 child)
Unless you own your property outright, you'll probably find that your mortgage excludes renting out your house commercially.
That could get you a bank fraud indictment if you are associated with Trump.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Muad'Dave on Wednesday September 11 2019, @11:30AM
Not to mention your homeowner's insurance. You rent out your place and the renter accidentally burns it down? Too bad, we don't cover commercial uses of your house.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @11:35AM (6 children)
Wow.. just... wow.
I haven't seen more -1 offtopic, cursing, swearing, yelling and screaming about a topic, related to the number of non-troll postings, in a long time here.
Why?
The city charges, via taxes, for sewer and water. My tax bill even shows the percentages paid. All across the US and Canada, cities charge more if you rent out rooms. Everywhere. In fact, it's the default.
You don't pay for a few years, you receive notice after notice, and what? Endless people in this thread (or just one nutjob) is complaining that some horrid evil has been laid upon those poor, poor people which didn't pay taxes.
Wtf?!
Quite literally, I can see no sane logic behind this response. Further, the driveway? In the US and Canada, you own your driveway... until the city does. All streets are actually wider than the pavement. The city owns (typically) the ditches along the side of streets, and about 1 to 2 metres of land. On that area, the city connects your land, with pavement, to the city street.
This land, owned by the city, is what is being dug up. They *own* that land. It's theirs, not yours.
And so yes, they can dig it up for failure to pay taxes.
What the hell is wrong with people in this thread? Are you all squatter deadbeat assholes?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Nuke on Wednesday September 11 2019, @12:04PM (4 children)
They are ranting because they use Airbnb, and they don't want the prices to go up.
It baffles me why anyone should logically think that Airbnb should be exempt from business taxes and other requirements (including safety provisions).
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday September 11 2019, @02:28PM (3 children)
While I agree with your sentiments, I don't agree that the city should have dug up the sewer+water. They want to get their back taxes, then take it to the courts.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 11 2019, @03:26PM
Courts take years. This is faster, because the mortgage bank will foreclose immediately, because the property is no longer fit to live in. Another kick in the ass for the owner.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 12 2019, @03:54PM (1 child)
The courts? They don't have to do that, why would they?
If you don't pay your tax, the municipality can simply sell it. Period. No court is required, although the process is very regimented.. including publishing notices in the paper, cool off periods, and even the ability to buy it back from the new owner, if you do pay.
The city is being *nice* here. They could have just sold the land for back-tax. No court required.
(I just wonder, how many people commenting in this thread have even the faintest clue how property ownership works.. because, it sure doesn't look like it...)
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 13 2019, @11:16PM
"If". Where's the evidence that these properties haven't paid their taxes?
Notice the use of the word "ownership". If some municipality can just dig up your utilities and render your property useless, then where's the ownership?
(Score: 2) by donkeyhotay on Wednesday September 11 2019, @04:05PM
You make some good points. There's a house two doors down from me that is an AirBnB. The "poor" owner drives a Maserati.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday September 12 2019, @12:39AM (2 children)
My grandparents lived out of town and didn't have any city water or sewer. They had a septic tank, and a well. They lived quite happily on that property for 50+ years before their deaths. Never once did they pay the city a dime in property taxes.
So, I guess it must be possible for a property owner to exist at a first-world standard while telling the city to go fuck itself, right?
Me, I think it would be fun to run an AirBnB operation with composting toilets and well- and rain water supplying the drink and then charge double or triple to renters to stay in an "Earth-friendly" place. It would be fun, also, to sell the composted waste as organic fertilizer to eco-hippies. Marketed right, it could be quite a tidy little sideline.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Friday September 13 2019, @12:48AM (1 child)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday September 14 2019, @03:40PM
That's not universally true, nor does it have to remain true where it is so now.
If I was one of the homeowners in question, I'd make my own arrangements, because the technology and means to make your own arrangements exist. One of the joys of our modern Information Age is that we can now easily and instantly learn what those means are, and employ them ourselves.
Washington DC delenda est.