Submitted via IRC for SoyCow1337
More and more countries are mounting disinformation campaigns online
[...] That's a long way of saying that I forgive you if you'd like to skip today's news and instead just read nothing but explainers and Twitter threads about impeachment. It's kind of the biggest story in the world right now, and it will all play out in new and exciting and probably terrifying ways across all our big social platforms, and if you want to read some speculation on how I'd point you to this savvy Kevin Roose piece on the subject (further excerpted below).
But say you've finished your impeachment reading for the day and are eager to luxuriate in a good old-fashioned tale of platform-based information warfare. In that case may I please recommend a new report from researchers at Oxford University on the usage of disinformation campaigns by governments around the world. And usage is ... well, I bet you can guess!
Here's Davey Alba and Adam Satariano in the New York Times:
The researchers compiled information from news organizations, civil society groups and governments to create one of the most comprehensive inventories of disinformation practices by governments around the world. They found that the number of countries with political disinformation campaigns more than doubled to 70 in the last two years, with evidence of at least one political party or government entity in each of those countries engaging in social media manipulation.
In addition, Facebook remains the No. 1 social network for disinformation, the report said. Organized propaganda campaigns were found on the platform in 56 countries.
You can read the report yourself here. Personally I found it useful to just read a straightforward guide to the varieties of state-sponsored information attacks — most of which have long been in use, of course, by more garden-variety trolls.
Related Stories
FiveThirtyEight is covering the efficacy of fact-checking and other methods to combat the spread of misinformation and disinformation. Fact-checking, after the fact, is better than nothing, it turns out. There are some common factors in the times when it has been done successfully:
Political scientists Ethan Porter and Thomas J. Wood conducted an exhaustive battery of surveys on fact-checking, across more than 10,000 participants and 13 studies that covered a range of political, economic and scientific topics. They found that 60 percent of respondents gave accurate answers when presented with a correction, while just 32 percent of respondents who were not given a correction expressed accurate beliefs. That’s pretty solid proof that fact-checking can work.
But Porter and Wood have found, alongside many other fact-checking researchers, some methods of fact-checking are more effective than others. Broadly speaking, the most effective fact checks have this in common:
- They are from highly credible sources (with extra credit for those that are also surprising, like Republicans contradicting other Republicans or Democrats contradicting other Democrats).
- They offer a new frame for thinking about the issue (that is, they don’t simply dismiss a claim as “wrong” or “unsubstantiated”).
- They don’t directly challenge one’s worldview and identity.
- They happen early, before a false narrative gains traction.
It is as much about psychology as actually rebutting the disinformation because factors like partisanship and worldview have strong effects, and it is hard to reach people inside their social control media echo chambers from an accurate source they will accept.
[Though often incorrectly attributed to Mark Twain, one is reminded of the adage: “A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes”. --Ed.]
Previously:
(2020) Nearly Half of Twitter Accounts Pushing to Reopen America May be Bots
(2019) Russians Engaging in Ongoing 'Information Warfare,' FBI Director Says
(2019) How Fake News Spreads Like a Real Virus
(2019) More and More Countries are Mounting Disinformation Campaigns Online
(2019) At Defcon, Teaching Disinformation Campaigns Is Child's Play
(2018) Why You Stink at Fact-Checking
(2017) Americans Are “Under Siege” From Disinformation
(2015) Education Plus Ideology Exaggerates Rejection of Reality
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday October 02 2019, @02:28PM (16 children)
You mean governments are both behind the times and liars? Say it ain't so!
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 02 2019, @02:31PM
Probably not as behind the times as they project themselves to be...
That's their job - if they're not lying, they're not representing the interests of their constituents to the best of their ability.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Wednesday October 02 2019, @03:00PM (14 children)
It ain't so. It's some governments are. Specifically, the high-capacity ones. Most aren't. Those that aren't, didn't get mention in the report or were mentioned under low-capacity.
compiling...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday October 02 2019, @03:34PM (13 children)
That's an absolutely stunning level of naivete you have going there. Corruption is not a function of size. Pick a town with as little as a thousand people in it and I guarantee you you will have corrupt officials and you will be lied to. Corrupt people are the only ones who actively seek power over others.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Wednesday October 02 2019, @04:40PM (4 children)
I'm skeptical of this claim. I suspect (but cannot prove) that larger power structures are more attractive than small ones in the eyes of those who seek to grab the world and hold it; local politics is often seen as a stepping stone to the national stage. This doesn't exclude small hierarchies from corruption.
This is either a tautology (if we consider all people corrupt) or an overstatement. Can you think of no situation where you have actively sought power to accomplish a specific end? You've never jockeyed for a promotion that would give you power over a co-worker?
(Score: 3, Touché) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:14PM
Maybe for the competent.
For the less competent, one might find a comfortable life of corruption in a small town if you have control over enough people.
For everyone else, there's MasterCard.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday October 02 2019, @07:53PM
Larger power structures are more attractive but the competition for the spots is more fierce. Those with the highest corruption score get the best positions and those who suck at it get the lesser ones. Odd that an enemy of meritocracy is in fact itself a meritocracy.
Slight hyperbole for hyperbole's traditional purpose.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Wednesday October 02 2019, @09:53PM (1 child)
Certain systems of government will encourage corruption more than others. But I agree with TMB - small organisations have a huge capacity for corruption.
My case in point - University student politics. We're not talking huge sums of money here - a few thousand in grants at most. But when I was involved in a University social club, I was part of the "Clubs and Societies" meetings within the Student Union. Wow. Branch stacking. Falsified club registration papers. Smear campaigns. The level of bullshit that went on there was incredible.
My take - the smaller the stakes, the more grubby politics is. Federal politics is certainly a dirty game, but State politics is worse, Municipal/Council politics worse again and Student politics the absolute bottom of the barrel. I can't outright state that there's a correlation between 'grubbiness' and corruption, but it wouldn't surprise me based on my experience
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:56PM
I also agree with TMB. Corruption scales.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RamiK on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:39PM (3 children)
Who said anything about general corruption? We're talking about being liars and behind the times in the context of waging information warfare as a nation. That's to say, not simply lying to your own constituents. But rather, having a state funded program that manipulates public opinion, in and abroad, through social media via pushing talk points and a national agenda while discrediting the opposition's points with half-truths and lies.
Putting aside the means, it's most certainly the case that most governments simply lack significant enough needs to justify such programs. I mean, most EU members... Canada... most Asian & African nations... What do they have to obfuscate that they can afford to obfuscate in terms of costs and risks if exposed? For them, the industries make due with hiring advertising agencies to deal with lobbies, politicians and boardrooms level corruption well enough.
I mean, just look at that list of nations. They either have skeletons or at least have well funded enemies and need to defend against propaganda with counter propaganda. But other than that, why bother? War is money going down the drain. Not everyone is fine with that.
compiling...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday October 02 2019, @07:56PM (2 children)
Such programs exist at any scale. They just don't have the manpower and have to do things themselves or have "a guy" mostly rather than having a department.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RamiK on Wednesday October 02 2019, @08:27PM (1 child)
You see that "Disinformation Campaigns Online" in the title? The high/medium/low capacity distinction is the difference between having a guy running around doing public relations damage control and posting #MAGA style twitts versus full time contractors billing by the millions and campaigning the spread of very deliberate FUD backed by everything from selective reports to fake news 24/7.
The difference in proportions between high and low capacity here is between a standing army that's equipped and trains for offensive ground warfare and 3 Mounties in a forestry station that patrol the maple orchards armed with a radio to report any sighting of bears and such. The guys not in the list don't even have that.
compiling...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday October 02 2019, @11:09PM
Doesn't take but one lie you want to believe to make you look like an idiot. Small scale organizations don't need to canvas the entire world to be effective, only those whose views matter. For a small town, one person could handle the entire load.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:14PM (3 children)
Cynic, much? There are people who run for political office purely to improve the situation of their constituency, to serve to the best of their ability. In my experience they are about 1/10 at the local level and they get more rare on the way up the power hierarchy, but... they are there. On your average local schoolboard there's usually one (out of 8 or so...), once in a rare while you'll get one in as Mayor or Sheriff. Unfortunately, lacking the motivation of corruption, they do tend to burn out - and find it hard to function in the existing systems since they don't trade in the predominant currencies.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:42PM (2 children)
I scoff at the naivete of cynics. Seriously though, even those that to all outward appearances are entirely altruistic in their motives are corrupt. Whether you're selling people's liberties to corporations or saying things you know to be untrue to save lives is just a matter of flavors.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:08PM (1 child)
I think that falls under the job description of most "security" related postings.
As for corruption - I have interacted personally with a couple of non-self-serving schoolboard members, and later a wife of a personal friend actually got on to her local school board purely with the intention (and result) of "doing good for the community." She was particularly exasperated with the (majority of the) board members who were just using schoolboard as a stepping stone to higher political office and power brokering - losers at that level are such frustrating people to deal with. I was personally frustrated with the chairman of our local schoolboard who barely took off his KKK garb before stepping into the chambers, discrimination wasn't just his middle name, it was his first and last word on every issue - carefully composed to stay one hair inside the federal guidelines, on paper at least.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:21PM
You're likely correct that it's not an absolute rule. It's more than close enough that it should be treated as such though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 02 2019, @02:29PM (2 children)
Tokyo Rose, Fat Albert broadcasting to Havana, airdropped propaganda leaflets, the yellow press, poor Richard...
Colored commentary is as old as commentary itself - there never is a balanced presentation, nor a presentation that even tells "all sides" of a particular story. We've got a new media, and a megaphone for everyone who can manage to get a message online, whether by typing, or producing "news" videos for distribution in social media. It's a lower bar for global distribution than ever before, wackyness will ensue, but don't expect some fabulous new truth to emerge from the chaos.
Maybe, just maybe, the truth is out there - now that so many people have a chance to publish, but don't expect it to bubble to the top of its own virtue. The messages at the top of the public consciousness will be driven by the same forces that have always driven them, and truth is not among them.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:01PM (1 child)
What is new is that the sources of information have exploded exponentially. That makes it next to impossible for the press and the government to control perceptions, and as the old saw goes, "in politics, perception is reality." Thanks to those new sources of information, we have been able to prove over and over again in the last decade that the supposedly "trustworthy" MSM sources have been making it up. Have they always done so, and are only now getting caught? We'll never know exactly, but for the cynic it's a good bet.
Maybe where it all nets out will be a positive outcome, such that people will be compelled to do their own primary research and to re-learn best practices for citations and corroboration that the "journalists" chucked out the window a long time ago.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:03PM
See: Great Firewall of China, US Senate proposals above, more to come...
Not to mention: Cambridge Analytica - money talks, pump a few million a day into Facebook and you can swing major elections.
They're teaching primary sources in my kids' high school history class, I even heard a family in the county public library talking with the Librarian about how to get primary sources for the assignment... however, I'm afraid the topic really will go over with the kids like a lead balloon.
There's the saddest bit of futurecasting of all... the real journalists still do it the right way, and I'm guessing that the Pulitzer is still awarded to examples of real journalism. What has happened in the real world is that the masses have turned their attention away from the (mostly bought, paid for, tagged, gagged and state/oligarchy controlled) mainstream, sometimes real, journalists and started listening to and virally blowing up blogger stories. The early results I have seen from this aren't any improvement or distinguishing of MSM, but rather a stooping to the level of the bloggers for various reasons... none of them good.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2, Touché) by Debvgger on Wednesday October 02 2019, @02:33PM (1 child)
"It's kind of the biggest story in the world right now"
No, it's not :-)
(Score: 2) by NateMich on Wednesday October 02 2019, @03:08PM
I'm not even interested myself, and I live in the US.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Wednesday October 02 2019, @02:41PM (18 children)
phase 1 - fabgag("Social Media Platform") is the next big thing, you resist because you know this won't end well
phase 2 - everyone is doing it, you resist because they look foolish
phase 3 - you must do it to exist socially and economically, self marketing on this platform is a requirement of production, you give in even though you are betraying all your values and know you look dumb
phase 5 - dataset complete, elites use it to micro-manage society, get away with crimes, change election results, undermine ideological opponents, gaslightx1000
phase 6 - socket puppets, bots and shills make platform completely unuseable (-YOU ARE PROBABLY HERE)
phase 7 - intelligent people realize what is going on, leave, vast bulk of population is now dependent and can't imagine life without, ideologically approved people and state/corp backed personas continue to promote and use platform, undercover police and spies lives' made easier than ever, bad people are promoted as good for pennies while good people are blacklisted for the tiniest slight
phase 8 - so few people who don't submit to tracking remaining, plenty of resources on hand to perform their tracking through more expensive means, as it is more valuable anyway (- I AM HERE)
phase 9 - congratulations, you have eliminated all underground movements globally (-THIS IS HONG KONG RIGHT NOW IF THEY LOSE WE ARE ALL NEXT)
phase 10 - total domination by capitalist elites, fanatical cults and nationalist spies, life sucks for everyone
phase 11 - total domination by a single fanatical cult, life sucks for everyone
phase 12 - no one knows who or what the cult which rules society even is, they could be robots, aliens, fictional characters, clones, and/or time travellers; life sucks for everyone and there are no clear paths forward as no one can agree on what we are even fighting
thesesystemsarefailing.net
decultification.org
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday October 02 2019, @03:00PM (10 children)
Dystopia is not inevitable, though we are headed that direction at the present time. It would be interesting to see what we evolve into in a million years. Too bad we can't observe from the "after life". Or can we?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Wednesday October 02 2019, @03:09PM (3 children)
Do you have some simple physics of the afterlife to propose, like a misinterpretation of the no-hiding theorem?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday October 02 2019, @03:19PM (2 children)
physics of the afterlife...?
What kind of trick question is that?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Wednesday October 02 2019, @03:27PM (1 child)
In the context of discussing consciousness, somebody once told me that "reality boils down to simple physics" and "simple electrochemical energy drives it all." [soylentnews.org] Since that same somebody now seems to be speculating that there might be an afterlife, it seemed like an obvious question to ask.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by fustakrakich on Wednesday October 02 2019, @03:46PM
Oh lighten up, will ya? You didn't notice the scare quotes? And what, is wanton speculation a bad thing?
Christ! Now I'm offtopic...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:26PM (5 children)
Dystopia seems inevitable. I don't see anything that is going to stop it.
Do you actually believe the human species will still exist in a million years? Plenty of species go extinct. We seem to have selfish short term self destructive behavior which we cannot overcome that damages our environment, food, water and air. We have violent tribal behavior that ensures continued wars. I would point out that the crazy religious zealots are closely related to us genetically.
For thousands of years, these self destructive defects didn't seem to matter as long as there were more places to find new resources to consume and pollute. But I think we've about run out. Escaping this planet is not realistic as long as an very long continuous supply chain is needed from the home planet to support the escapees.
I hate to sound like a pessimist. But IMO, optimists see the BS as much more than half full.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:46PM (2 children)
I don't see anything that is going to stop it.
Then don't think about it. Put your affairs in order and keep moving. If you stop in this fog, you'll only get rear ended.
Far as I'm concerned, this is just a phase, but I'll never know
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:12PM (1 child)
I don't stop moving. I hope for the best. I just don't see it happening. Civilizations have risen and fallen in the past. There have been terrible times in the past. There is nothing that prevents us from falling into medieval times again. My opinion about it, whether I like it or not, has nothing to do with what will actually happen.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:03PM
Are you saying A Canticle for Leibowitz is not fiction, but a prediction?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @07:39PM
but isn't the worst dystopia one that endures endlessly? If its over in a mere million years, how bad could it get / be / have been?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Thursday October 03 2019, @07:00AM
Are you a freedom fighter or a stooge? (when it comes right down to it, at the end of the day, when all the cards are on the table etc etc) (don't answer, we are all stooges here of course because everyone knows it's wrongthink to be a freedom fighter)
If dystopia is not here yet, then something can be done and predictions of what is inevitable or not aren't useful.
I think it should be pretty clear the urgency with which the present american regimes are burning the house down and fomenting civil strife, potentially war. They know they can't hold onto power long and so they need catastrophe, for everything to be breaking.
For instance, do you see Trump, whose entire regime is zionism first cultists, now actually saying things offensive to jewish people and getting called antisemitic by the zionists who are now branding him a white supremecist?
That is the lengths they are having to go to, which indicates they are afraid of something, and they should be, because everyone in the world knows now that building 7 was a controlled demolition(thank you Alaskans!) and the only person who could have arranged that is the owner, who is himself a zionist first person
I should really get paid for explaining all of these things to everyone here. It really is so that the main purpose of american mass media is preventing people from seeing this, and the alt right is there to push everyone away from any centrist position into batshit nazi racism. That doesn't happen without careful coordination.
The shills in the american situation, illustrating the danger of what we are talking about in TFA, is that israeli propaganda is making americans crazy, and that is also where all of this civil war talk is coming from. If black and white and mexican people are fighting each other, guess who gets to keep on running the government through legal bribery?
AIPAC, which is what I think is at the root of the problems of the united states. And this is exactly what I am talking about in phases 11 and 12, if the United States does not realize this it will be the divided client states of israel within 10 years. And their body scanners will let the mossad carry bazookas in airports and all of the emergency calls will be screened in underground bases in haifa. The same for europe, who is experiencing exactly the same thing, the narrative should be why are we helping israel invade its neighbors and kill palestinians/muslims but instead the entire country is terrified of right wing racists and refugees who were cleared out of israel's next planned annexations.
Every other country, seeing how easy it is with this facegag data to make americans and europeans light their own countries on fire and give their asses away, and arbitrarily bomb whatever, are naturally following suit, using tools sold to them by israel.
Until about 15 years ago I was pretty friendly toward israel, now they are the biggest threat to freedom, reason and the idea of human rights the world has ever seen and every single statement to the contrary will be attended by a personal counter-comment and potential internet and meatspace harassment. The 'never again' while they wipe out the palestinians through bureaucratic measures and encouraging other countries to take refugees while being completely racist in their own country is hands down the wildest moral absurdity I have ever intellectually encounterd.
This makes me really angry, so that is why I am singling them out, demonizing them and denying their legitimacy, the country of israel is ruining the world as we speak and at the moment the dystopia we are at risk of is one of their design.
9/11, Trump, what more do you need to know. People are actually following me in public because I say these obvious things. I would really like to see Americans and Europeans stand up to this crap before it really is too late, being pro jewish and not antisemetic does not mean allowing all zionist spies and paramilitary forces to operate in your country freely.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @03:26PM (1 child)
phase 4 -- a national security letter forbids discussing this phase
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:17PM
You just broke the conditions of the NSL!
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:34PM (1 child)
phase 11 / 12 -- see Revelation 13
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(Score: 1, Redundant) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:33AM
How many times do I need to post this? Revelation 13:18 refers to Emperor Nero; 666 is Gematria for "Neron Qaisar" more or less.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by Mojibake Tengu on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:05PM (1 child)
Decultification itself seems more like a cult to me, but that's just a personal opinion. Keep striving, we will be watching you.
Respect Authorities. Know your social status. Woke responsibly.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Thursday October 03 2019, @06:19AM
It's an idea not an organization.
A strategy not a tactic.
Something you can do, not something you can join.
You cannot, after all, solve a problem through its perpetuation.
Thank you for watching, at least.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:17PM
When you control the legislature, you control the definition of crime...
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday October 02 2019, @03:30PM (3 children)
Look for the businessman that is financing and publishing the campaign. Nothing happens without money.
As usual the main complaint here seems to be anything that competes with the mass media conglomerates for attention, hence the scary labeling.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @07:50PM (2 children)
Well don't forget the "grassroots" advertising being pushed by alt-right actors like the ad I just got "tired of the mainstream media's fake newz??? Come to shitheads'r'us!!"
It is scary how they are trying to recruit youth into these campaigns of hate by feeding lies of persecution and paranoia.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday October 02 2019, @08:40PM (1 child)
Much scarier to see them follow like mindless sheep.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:06PM
I think the same thing when encountering CNN viewers now.
Critical thinking is at ebb tide.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @03:57PM (13 children)
Seriously...
Who else is fed up with the democrat disinformation campaign against Trump? They've wasted so much taxpayer money and time that could/should have been spent on more important issues. Nothing is getting done with all the bickering going on... It's like two 5 year olds fighting over a toy.
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @04:13PM (7 children)
This whole impeachment thing is such a farce.
Why don't the Democrats put out positive proposals for how they will govern if they win the Presidential election and actually win it?
I suppose they know their chances are bad at winning it, thus all this extra-electoral "backdoor" shenanigans.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @04:31PM (6 children)
Oh.... so that's why before the impeachment news broke virtually all polling services except Rasmussen (including Fox) showed that if either Biden, Sanders, or Warren went up against trump the Democrats would win (Warren being questionable). And mostly they still show that. I see.
And you do realize that if Trump is bounced out now then it is Pence who becomes President, which would likely be a much harder fight for the Democrats to win, since Pence has a shot at courting independent voters where Trump's flame-outs have mostly turned off everyone but his base? They are actually making it harder on themselves to pursue impeachment, if they win it. (Which Feinstein certainly knows....)
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html [realclearpolitics.com]
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html [realclearpolitics.com]
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_warren-6251.html [realclearpolitics.com]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:31PM (4 children)
Just to point something out. Trump doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut. He says "Pence had conversations with Ukraine too!". So if Trump goes down, followed shortly by Pence going down, then Pelosi is president.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday October 02 2019, @07:56PM (2 children)
Pence might have had conversations of a very different nature with the Ukraine.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:34PM (1 child)
Ones where he doesn't release transcripts that show... pretty much exactly what the whistle-blower report states.
I've read it, and while it isn't a blatant, "investigate Biden or we will with-hold aid," it does come off as being similar to, "that is some nice foreign aid we are giving you, be a shame if something were to happen to it."
Basically, the president of Ukraine (I'll call him Pres Z), said that he really appreciates the aid the US is giving, and he's looking forward to the next installment so he can buy some missiles from us (Javelins in the transcript). Trump then IMMEADIATELY pivots to "I would like you to do a favor for us though..." and asks him to investigate Crowdstrike, Pres Z says, "I guarantee... that all investigations will be done openly and candidly." Then Trump asks him to look into the removal of the prosecutor at Biden's request. Biden's name is in the transcript at this point.
I should point out that at this time, US aid to Ukraine had been delayed. So things aren't explicitly laid out, but they are still pretty clearly hinted at.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:37PM
Forgot to link to the transcript:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-ukraine-call-transcript-read-the-document [foxnews.com]
The people at Fox point out that it doesn't explicitly say tit-for-tat, but they do have the unaltered transcript, so I figure I'll use their link so the Rs know it isn't 'fake news.'
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday October 02 2019, @08:44PM
then Pelosi is president.
Then we find out she did it to collect the insurance.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:15PM
Oh my short-memoried friend, all the news outlets were proclaiming last election that Hillary was going to win it.
Nobody thought Trump was going to win, but he did. And you think the polls this time around are going to be infallible?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @04:16PM (2 children)
Seriously...
Who else is fed up with the trump disinformation campaign against Democrats? They've wasted so much taxpayer money and time that could/should have been spent on more important issues. Nothing is getting done with all the bickering going on... It's like two 5 year olds fighting over a toy.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:28PM (1 child)
You should stop watching CNN
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:33PM
I stopped watching CNN in 2013 but would agree that Trump's disinformation campaign (or tweeter) is a waste of money.
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(Score: 5, Insightful) by digitalaudiorock on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:45PM (1 child)
Holy crap. Is that the same "disinformation campaign" that's apparently convinced only 4 in 10 [thehill.com] Republicans that Trump "probably" mentioned Biden in that phone call...despite the fact that it says so in the White house's own transcript?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @08:07PM
Holy crap. The Democrats should be fired from their jobs for wasting yet more time and resources at taxpayers expense. It's one thing after another with those fucking morons
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @04:19PM (1 child)
A more than obvious democrat piece of propaganda. Perfect example for this story...
But.. It's the Times!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:18PM
It's not The Times, it's The Verge.
How is what other countries doing some kind of democrat propaganda?
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(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @07:12PM
if anyone knows about disinformation, it's the CIA Times.
(Score: 5, Funny) by srobert on Wednesday October 02 2019, @08:15PM
Thank God I live in America where my government doesn't engage in disinformation campaigns. Here we have a free press that keeps the American people informed without bias.