from the I-already-regret-posting-this dept.
Submitted via IRC for Bytram
Could the female orgasm be a happy remnant of evolution?
As a team of researchers pointed out, during intercourse the male orgasm serves an obvious reproductive function: Without it, ejaculation can't happen. But the reproductive role of female orgasm has been much less clear, because ovulation in humans occurs whether a woman has recently had an orgasm or not. So the very existence of the female orgasm in women has long been a physiological mystery. But now U.S. researchers (with the help of some sexually active rabbits) believe they may have solved this riddle.
The new research was led by Gunter Wagner, a professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at Yale, and Mihaela Pavlicev, an assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Cincinnati.
According to the investigators, part of the puzzle has been that the clitoris—the central locus for the female orgasm—is located a good distance above where the real "action" of reproductive intercourse occurs.
That led the team to look further back in the mammalian family tree. And as the two scientists reported in the Sept. 30 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the clitoris is much more central to intercourse for animals such as cats, rabbits and ferrets. In those mammals, the clitoris is located along the reproductive pathway used for intercourse. In fact, in female rabbits, clitoral stimulation and orgasm is actually required to initiate the ovulation needed to reproduce.
That's different from what happens in women, of course. So Wagner and Pavlicev theorized that, somewhere along the evolutionary timeline, the clitoris migrated away from the center of reproductive activity while retaining its ability to release pleasure-inducing hormones.
To test out their theory that the female orgasm is essential to procreation—at least in other mammals—the two scientists injected the anti-depressant fluoxetine (best known as Prozac) into female rabbits.
Since the drug is known to deplete a woman's ability to orgasm, the researchers theorized that, by extension, rabbits who got the shot might be less likely to ovulate. And that was the case: As the female rabbits' ability to orgasm foundered, they ovulated 30% less often, compared to females that didn't get the antidepressant.
More information: Mihaela Pavlicev et al. An experimental test of the ovulatory homolog model of female orgasm, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2019). DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1910295116
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:15PM
Our government borrows money from China to fund research like this. Pathetic.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Alfred on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:23PM (6 children)
This should be the basis of a "Surgeons General Warning" on every bottle.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:36PM (5 children)
SSRIs like Prozac can cause anorgasmia in both genders. [wikipedia.org] All the more reason to get transcranial magnetic stimulation instead [wikipedia.org] of being hooked on pills. TMS has far fewer side effects, and does not interact with alcohol.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by chromas on Wednesday October 02 2019, @07:01PM (2 children)
Shit. Just think of all the hormone-dripping teens on SSRIs now. No wonder they keep shooting up their schools.
(Score: 2) by Alfred on Wednesday October 02 2019, @09:48PM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:00PM
Almost, but it's the neurotransmitters that are changing, whether in response to drugs or not. Problem is, we can't measure intra-brain levels of neurotransmitters. But it's just as likely, in the absence of evidence, to suggest that maybe if those persons were treated (and/or required to be on their meds) these problems wouldn't happen? Because even for those treated there are often revolving-door effects: Have problem, to hospital, take drugs, feel better, release from hospital, stop taking drugs, have problem.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Thursday October 03 2019, @07:38AM (1 child)
Except TMS doesn't seem to cure the same problems that the suggested medications do, according to the wikipedia link you gave us. Why not try the ducking-stool or leeches - they don't claim to cure the same problems either.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:14PM
Both are anti-depression treatments. I'm not sure I understand your point.
(Score: 2) by Hartree on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:26PM (2 children)
Ok. Someone's gotta make the joke about putting the female Energizer Bunny's batteries in backwards.
But, if the lady bunnies need an orgasm in order to ovulate, it sounds to me that if a guy bunny is a poor lover and doesn't get her to climax he has no chance for her to have young'uns. Now there's some strong genetic pressure to please her. :)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:59AM (1 child)
The same applies to men - without orgasm, why bother with sex?
So orgasm continues to exist because without it nobody would give or get a fuck. Nothing to do with ovulation, which is controlled by a different mechanism.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by Hartree on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:59AM
"This study has zero to do with humans."
Which is why I was making the second comment about rabbits rather than humans. The first was just a joke. The second was mostly a joke, but indeed referred to the situation in rabbits where female orgasm is an ovulation promoter.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:29PM
Let the experts at SoylentNews enlighten you. Glad you asked.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:43PM (11 children)
The female orgasm is unnecessary for procreation.
Maybe its purpose is to indicate who Mr. Right is.
From her POV . . . Who likes me better, makes me more excited, treats me better, is less selfish, etc . . . leading to . . . will provide resources and assistance in the expensive proposition of bringing up offspring.
Maybe it has a more important role than meets the . . . um, eye. Maybe it's not for quick gratification so much as for a deeper underlying indicator of who to form a longer term bond with rather than a quick fling.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday October 02 2019, @05:55PM (7 children)
I seem to recall some studies indicating it does increase the chance of fertilization.
Not gonna go searching for citations at work though!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:20PM
Increasing chances of fertilization is not inconsistent with also increasing chances of successful offspring reaching adulthood.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:36PM
Something to do with contractions accelerating the uptake of semen...
The real challenge is that the researchers are attempting to describe a population of 3+ billion based on pitifully small sample sizes.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Wednesday October 02 2019, @09:01PM (3 children)
I came to post the same. ISTR that during female orgasm the contractions (peristalsis) of the uterine walls draws the sperm into the cervix, improving the chances of fertilization.
I couldn't find the specific study I read years ago, but this review [nih.gov] does discuss that phenomenon (with references):
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Alfred on Wednesday October 02 2019, @09:44PM (2 children)
I learned a new highly scientific term today
(Score: 3, Funny) by FatPhil on Wednesday October 02 2019, @11:06PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by EvilJim on Friday October 04 2019, @12:39AM
snort that up your crotch-nostril ladies.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:24AM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Wednesday October 02 2019, @07:49PM (2 children)
The shared human-ape ancestor had a barbed penis which was physically traumatic enough that without an orgasm females wouldn't have wanted to mate again: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/3/110309-humans-men-penises-spines-dna-genome-science/ [nationalgeographic.com]
compiling...
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Wednesday October 02 2019, @09:41PM
I'm with you on this one.
Perhaps the reason that female orgasm still exists is that it makes sex pleasurable for females? If sex is pleasurable, then they're more likely to want to do it, and thus increase likelihood of pregnancy.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @09:54PM
That's not what that link says.
Some species have penises with various mechanical adaptations that help with competition at the reproductive level, either against the sperm of other males or to overcome complications in the female anatomy (which can function as a form of control over fertilization). This extends even to the sperm itself - chimpanzees, without monogamy, have extremely effective sperm, whereas gorillas, who keep harems where mating opportunities are controlled, have terrible sperm (and small penises relative to their body size). Humans aim toward monogamy but everyone knows in practice that often does not happen, and humans have middle of the road sperm. Orgasms aren't involved one way or the other.
The more monogamous the species, and more importantly the more physical or social control over mating the females exercise, the less these adaptations are required. While humans certainly aren't strictly monogamous, and over history women have not exercised total control over their choice of mate, in humans both are more true than not.
In effect, our penises are gentle because humans play nice, at least when it comes to the sex act itself.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:02PM (1 child)
Remnant: an unsold or unused end of piece goods
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:23PM
Remnant: the people left behind in Israel after the Assyrians came and took all of the useful, productive and wealthy people away, along with whatever other goods could be plundered.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by stretch611 on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:04PM (12 children)
The more orgasms I can make a women have...
is the more likely she is willing to have more sex with me.
The more sex we have... the greater the chance of procreation.
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:12PM (6 children)
Not if you happen to be a two-timing jerk.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:17PM (3 children)
Not so sure about that. Some women seem to like the bad boys. Just sayin'.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:24PM (2 children)
I wonder if those women are the most successful at raising offspring to adulthood?
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @09:38PM (1 child)
Success to that point may be less likely, but the surviving offspring might be more successful. They will inherit the behavior of their father, which obviously works.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @09:59PM
Lest the philosophy of the PUAs and incels get out of hand here, the strategy actually does not work that well, as evidenced by the fact that most men do not use it as a primary strategy. While it'sa reasonable strategy to take such an opportunity if it comes up, which it certainly sometimes does, it doesn't really come up all that often. (And it also comes with downsides, like how the woman's angry husband or father might kill you).
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @06:26PM (1 child)
A jerk does not necessarily have to be restricted to only "two" timing. The variable n should be used.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:32AM
This would also account for the fact that guys bragging about their sexual prowess to strangers are frequently zero-timing jerks.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Rupert Pupnick on Wednesday October 02 2019, @07:59PM (1 child)
Somebody give this guy a retroactive research grant.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 02 2019, @09:59PM
He would then need research subject volunteers -- who would be paid from that grant.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 02 2019, @09:27PM (2 children)
You can stop right there. We all know you are a shut-in living in your mom's basement.
(Score: 2) by Alfred on Wednesday October 02 2019, @09:50PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:09AM
Troll?!? Damn! I was aiming for +1, Funny!
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Wednesday October 02 2019, @11:27PM (1 child)
Is this really the case? I can think of numerous bodily functions which involve excrete/expelling stuff without causing an orgasm.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday October 03 2019, @06:19AM
You can sneeze without closing your eyes (as seen on /Duck Quacks Don't Echo/ series godknowns, episode fuckknows), not everything we consider intimately wired is so.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 4, Informative) by pipedwho on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:06AM
It is possible to ejaculate without orgasm (ie. anorgasmia), and to have an orgasm without contractions/ejaculation (eg. tantric sexual practices).
The typical female orgasm is much more varied than than the typical male orgasm. For a typical male, the orgasm/ejaculation reflex are simultaneous. This is commonly likened to a female clitoral orgasm. These sort of orgasms are intense and of short duration. The advantage of the female orgasm, is that women can have more than one without depleting their energy.
An extended female orgasm tends to occur deeper in the body, and in many cases expands beyond the genitals. When that happens, the orgasm can last for many minutes. This also applies to male non-ejaculatory orgasms. (Note: I don't count injaculatory orgasms as non-ejaculatory - they are basically a regular male orgasm while using either muscular or external pressure to suppress the ejaculation of sperm).
Extended orgasms can be used as a starting point to spring board the tantric expansion of sexual/kundalini energy around the body. With meditative practices, both males and females can have full body ecstatic experiences that can last hours - and then subtly echo for even days afterwards. This 'energy' can open one up to the experiential side of spirituality where consciousness is perceived beyond the egoic self. And is why it is usually found in spiritual rituals such as tantra.
The female orgasmic response does not require a 'benefit' to avoid contradicting evolutionary theory. There may be evolutionary benefits, but it may simply be a factor of females and males being both similar enough physically with similar neural paths - this similarity may be a benefit by reducing genomic complexity. And in that, the female gets the benefit of stimulation in the genital area causing the same neural response as would happen to a male. The required anatomical differences for ejaculation (ignoring female 'squirting') only occurs in the male - and are obviously required in the male or there'd be no humans around. While the neural/physical similarities (especially during precursor in utero gestation), even though they appear physically different, nevertheless benefit the female with the same pleasures - sans ejaculation. In my opinion, it would likely take some sort of negative evolutionary pressure to make it otherwise.