U.S. to Collect DNA of All Undocumented Migrants:
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is developing a plan to take DNA samples from each of the undocumented immigrants and store it in a national database for criminal DNA profiles, they said.
Speaking to journalists on grounds of anonymity, DHS officials said the new policy would give immigration and border control agents a broader picture of the migrant and detainee situation.
And stored on the FBI's CODIS DNA database, it could also be used by others in law enforcement and beyond.
[...] Officials said they were in fact required to take the DNA samples by rules about the handling of arrested and convicted people that were issued by the Justice Department in 2006 and 2010, but which had not been implemented.
They said the program for collecting DNA was still being developed, and they did not have a date set for implementation.
Collecting and storing the DNA of people simply detained and not tried or convicted of a crime has drawn criticism from civil rights advocates.
"Forced DNA collection raises serious privacy and civil liberties concerns and lacks justification, especially when DHS is already using less intrusive identification methods like fingerprinting," Vera Eidelman, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union, said in a statement.
"This kind of mass collection also alters the purpose of DNA collection from one of criminal investigation to population surveillance, which is contrary to our basic notions of freedom and autonomy," Eidelman said.
If it becomes okay to do this to "them", how long will it take before they want to do it to "us"?
Related Stories
DNA Databases in the U.S. and China Are Tools of Racial Oppression
Two major world powers, the United States and China, have both collected an enormous number of DNA samples from their citizens, the premise being that these samples will help solve crimes that might have otherwise gone unsolved. While DNA evidence can often be crucial when it comes to determining who committed a crime, researchers argue these DNA databases also pose a major threat to human rights.
In the U.S., the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has a DNA database called the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) that currently contains over 14 million DNA profiles. This database has a disproportionately high number of profiles of black men, because black Americans are arrested five times as much as white Americans. You don't even have to be convicted of a crime for law enforcement to take and store your DNA; you simply have to have been arrested as a suspect.
[...] As for China, a report that was published by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute in mid-June claims that China is operating the "world's largest police-run DNA database" as part of its powerful surveillance state. Chinese authorities have collected DNA samples from possibly as many as 70 million men since 2017, and the total database is believed to contain as many as 140 million profiles. The country hopes to collect DNA from all of its male citizens, as it argues men are most likely to commit crimes.
DNA is reportedly often collected during what are represented as free physicals, and it's also being collected from children at schools. There are reports of Chinese citizens being threatened with punishment by government officials if they refuse to give a DNA sample. Much of the DNA that's been collected has been from Uighur Muslims that have been oppressed by the Chinese government and infamously forced into concentration camps in the Xinjiang province.
Related:
EFF to Supreme Court: The Fourth Amendment Covers DNA Collection
EFF Sues Justice Dept. Over FBI's Rapid DNA Plans
Kuwait Creating Mandatory DNA Database of All Citizens, Residents--and Visitors
San Diego Police Department Accused of Unlawful DNA Collection From Minors
Massive DNA Collection Campaign in Xinjiang, China
Study Predicts Appearance From Genome Sequence Data
GEDmatch: "What If It Was Called Police Genealogy?"
Bavarian Law Broadens Police Surveillance and DNA Profiling Powers
DNA Collected from Golden State Killer Suspect's Car, Leading to Arrest
Another Alleged Murderer Shaken Out of the Family Tree
Indiana Murder Suspect Found by Using Genealogical Website
Public Ancestry Data Can be Used to Narrow Down the Identity Behind an Anonymous DNA Sample
Rapid DNA Analysis Machines Coming to Police Departments
FamilyTreeDNA Deputizes Itself, Starts Pitching DNA Matching Services To Law Enforcement
Genealogy Sites Have Helped Identify Suspects. Now They've Helped Convict One
U.S. to Collect DNA of All Undocumented Migrants
US Court Let Police Search GEDmatch's Entire DNA Database Despite Protections
China Uses DNA to Map Faces, With Help From the West
Cousin Took a DNA Test? Courts Could Use it to Argue You are More Likely to Commit Crimes
Ancestry Says Police Requested Access To Its DNA Database
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:03PM (3 children)
I work in a factory and we have been having trouble keeping people. So, I decided to volunteer because I had felt the employees were not given the proper training and this is why they were quitting. Well, since we go through so many we eventually get to the bottom of the well and the Temp agency sends us (you guest it!) Niggers!
Day One: I walk into the lunchroom and there are 2 humans and one very large silver back. I keep saying to myself "please don't give me the nigger. But as my luck would have it I get the nigger. This is Lamont. I said "Excuse me?" I had to have my boss repeat the question. Then I excused myself to go to the bathroom were I laughed hysterically. Lamont like in Lamont Sanford. The big dummy. I have never met a nigger with that name. So I train the ape to try and pick up the product and put it in the box. It reminded me of this scene from "Battle of the Apes" were they are trying to teach an ape how to pour a glass of water. The instructor pours it and put and empty glass on the table and says "do!" The ape looks at him confused. This was the laziest nigger I had ever seen. I weighed at least 400 pounds. And it smelled bad. One of the material handlers asked me if I wanted some nose plugs.
Day Two: No sign of the ape. It may have quit. No I couldn't be that lucky. Apparently it had to to go back to the agency. I would find out later that it attended a party at the agency. They had some sort of special day. I pictured it eating a piece of cake with some sort of come shaped birthday hat on. So it comes in at 2:30pm. We leave at 3:30pm why come in at all?! Here is the best part. The nigger comes in with it shirt not only on backwards but inside out! it's purple with a black tag in front. Don't forget it just came from the party at the agency dressed like this!.
I suffer for the rest of the week wit this ape. It was going on second shift on Friday I let it work on it's own. Only to find out that it left nothing as far as supplies for the next shift. It was going on second shift and they would have to deal with it.
Monday comes and no sign of the silverback? I asked HR what happened? No social security card. How do you not have a SOCIAL SECURITY CARD??????!!!!!! After that experience I no longer train anyone or anything. My recruiter was right. Don't volunteer for anything.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:17PM (1 child)
at end of 2nd paragraph . . .
A doctor could help open your bowels back up so that you would be less full of . . . um, yourself.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:19PM
But then it would evaporate into one big methane cloud. Not complaining mind you, just pointing it out.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:23PM
Reminds me of that neo nazi that stuck a dildo up his ass for them libruhl tears. Self-humiliation, never in a million years did I expect to see such things outside some kinky sex dungeon.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:42PM (78 children)
Do these people not understand? If you are an illegal immigrant, you have broken the law and are a criminal. Taking fingerprints and DNA is standard for criminals.
If you immigrate lawfully, DNA and fingerprints will not be taken. Because you're following the law.
Immigration is not a hot button issue for me, but this is a very basic distinction that everyone should understand and respect.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:44PM (49 children)
If you immigrate lawfully, DNA and fingerprints will not be taken.
Oh yeah? [path2usa.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:03PM (48 children)
So, these illegal immigrants aren't even being treated differently than legal immigrants?
Seems like the illegal immigrants have absolutely nothing to complain about, nor their supporters.
Who the hell supports *illegal* immigration anyhow? That's sheer idiocy. Maybe people want laxer laws, but why wouldn't people want legal vetting of people? Why would people want to pay tax, have minimum wage, etc, but then turn around and want people to not have minimum wage, and to not pay taxes?!
Just.. why are US political topics so *weird*, so *bizarre*?!
Think there should be more Mexicans allowed in the US? Then up the immigration allotment for Mexico! I mean, what the hell! Here's what people are shouting:
"You.. you bastards! Damn Feds! They're following the law, and locking up / kicking out illegal immigrants! The nerve of them! What the hell!!!!"
Here's what I hear:
"I'm a small business owner, or a middle class person in the southern US. I want to pay people below minimum wage, with no health care, and if they don't work 14 hour days, threaten to call the immigration control people!"
I mean, what the *fuck*. Yes. Let's continue to keep a SECOND CLASS of people in the US.
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:08PM
Immigrating to the US in 2019 is like immigrating to Germany in 1936: doable, but not desirable.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:08PM (29 children)
US likes their slaves.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:51PM (28 children)
The US had a shorter history of slavery than pretty much any empire that ever had it (pretty much all of them). Care to try again?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:42PM (16 children)
The US was just late to the party. They held on to their slavery well after the rest of the world was enlightened. Even after "officially" ending slavery it took decades of riots and deaths to actually end the segregation and discrimination. One could argue there are many parts of the US today that still practice segregation and discrimination. It's just more neatly presented now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:55PM
The only thing worse than racism is a SJW.
(Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:47PM (14 children)
Nope, try again. The US didn't even have slavery for a full hundred years, so it doesn't qualify for "long after" unless you're talking about nations that didn't even exist anymore in 1865.
As for segregation, that's pretty much entirely self-selection nowadays, so you don't get anyone to blame.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:35PM (13 children)
Nope, try readIng a history book. The first President owned slaves, and Jamestown got African slaves in the 1600s.
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:50PM (12 children)
Okay, bad context parsing on my part (TMB onviously meant "hundred years after other countries ended it").
(Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:07PM (11 children)
Nah, I meant before 1776 there was no US. In 1775 they were British slave owners. Once we took governance in our own hands, we got rid of slavery pretty damned quickly compared to most anyone else.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:16PM (4 children)
Well then you're being obtuse. In absolute terms (i.e. year of emancipation), we got rid of it slower than the obvious comparison states. You're just making a silly argument based on when we had a revolution, despite knowing full well that the institution of slavery was around before and after that date. It's not like your record of horrors gets erased the moment you raise a new flag, the institutions that became the new government were pieces of the old one before it.
(Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:28PM (3 children)
No, I'm saying you can't hang anything from before the US existed on the US. We had no say in our governance and cannot be held accountable for for it prior to 1776. If you want to hang the pre-revolution slavery on anyone, you have no choice but to hang it on Britain.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Touché) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @01:48AM (2 children)
You had quite a bit of self-governance before 1776, which is why you had legal things that were illegal in the mother country. You guys just got pissed at the King saying everyone was equal, including Jesuits and Natives, and no, you couldn't steal the natives land or keep Catholics out of office so you revolted for the freedom to repress others and have done a good job of it for close to 250 years.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:09AM (1 child)
Wow, that was some quality ignorance there. Or was it willful denial of reality?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by dry on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:39AM
Do you even know what the Royal Proclamation of 1763 was?
(Score: 2) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @01:44AM (5 children)
Actually, it was some British colonies that had legal slavery due to Great Britain allowing some self-government. Slavery was illegal in England and Great Britain. So it was the American colonists who decided slavery was legal, I believe by doing an end run around the thing about being put into servitude for X years as a punishment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:53AM (1 child)
Get it through your skull: the colonists were people straight from Britain living under British law.
No USA yet.
(Score: 3, Touché) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @02:23AM
They were colonists from several nations, eg New York was originally Dutch and they all had legislatures. A couple of links if you'd like to educate yourself,
https://www.thoughtco.com/colonial-governments-of-the-thirteen-colonies-104595 [thoughtco.com]
And from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_government_in_the_Thirteen_Colonies [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:12AM (2 children)
Sorry, no. It didn't become illegal in Britain until 1807. Prior to that Britain was the largest slave trading nation in the world.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by dry on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:43AM (1 child)
Slave trading nation, true. Legal in Great Britain, very questionable due to this thing called Habeas corpus. Sorta like how America can do things out of country that would be illegal in country. It's even commonly argued that the Bill of Rights only apply to American citizens.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @06:17AM
Dude, I get that Brits don't like being the primary asshats in the historical African slave trade but they absolutely were. They brought slavery to the colonies and they sold the slaves to the colonies. For hundreds of years they treated Africans worse than cattle. That it took us 89 years to get rid of it after giving them the boot is both impressive in its historical brevity and atrocious in that we didn't do it immediately. It does not remotely mitigate anything they did nor does it make us even close to their level of bastardry though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:06PM (8 children)
The German empire didn't have slavery. Neither the Austro-Hungarian empire. Nor the Russian empire.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:48PM (3 children)
I'm not even going to bother disputing those because you named three out of all empires throughout history.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:04PM (2 children)
Awww he's back to the easily triggered manly man. I thought he might have had some minor progress with self reflection. Keep it dumb bird brain, never change!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:08PM (1 child)
You need to look up the word "triggered". Either it doesn't mean what you think it means or you're atrocious at picking up tone from text.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @03:51AM
Sup bird brain, do I look like a plumber? Clean your own shit clogged pipes.
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:40PM (3 children)
German Nazis’ use of slave labor in industry... Up to nine million people, mostly Jews, were forced to work to absolute exhaustion.
Way before that... The term 'Slavs' represented the slave industry in that part of Europe.
You're an Idiot.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:07PM (1 child)
"The German Empire" generally refers to the Second Reich, not the Third. I'm making no claims as to whether they had slaves or not, but I don't think any statements about Nazi Germany were made in the comment you're replying to.
(Score: 2) by inertnet on Thursday October 03 2019, @09:54PM
Germany had slaves [wikipedia.org] too.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday October 03 2019, @09:47PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Empire [wikipedia.org]
Good point! The Russian Empire was clearly involved in slavery because their thousand-year-back ancestors were enslaved [wiktionary.org]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:22PM (1 child)
So, your defense is "well, sure, we owned people as property for a time, but we didn't do it as much as some others"? Color me unimpressed.
Ball is back in your court. And, next time, try not to embarrass yourself (and all the rest of us, your fellow citizens) in the process.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:14AM
No, my defense is we got rid of it faster than any nation in history, so get off our asses unless your nation did better.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:13PM (5 children)
My downstairs neighbor is a home healthcare aide who immigrated legally from Mexico forty years ago. She just lost her job to an illegal immigrant from Guatemala who was willing to work for 1/3 the wage.
My downstairs neighbor opposes illegal immigration and is a newly minted Trump supporter.
That's a small anecdote to illustrate who gets hit hardest by illegal immigration: legal immigrants who followed the rules and took the entry-level jobs. So people who argue for open borders are screwing the people they mean to help.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:54PM (1 child)
Nobody, and I really mean nobody, hates illegals like legal immigrants do. Not the staunchest double Nazi Klan supporter. Nobody.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:00AM
Hurrr durrrr my name is Bubba and my dumbshit wisdom gets upvoted by alt-right racists!
Don't think I've ever seen a Mexican salivating over doing some human hunting on the border. Every time I think you hit rock bottom you find a way.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bussdriver on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:32PM (1 child)
The GOP will never regulate businesses to the point they can't easily hire illegals without much penalty. The result is those who sneak past the system will always be around indirectly recruiting more hate filled GOP voters who also easily fall for all the scapegoating as well. Propaganda is part of it and it's not supposed to infect their politicians to the point where they ACTUALLY make moves to change their beneficial situation! It's worked too well so now they have gullible suckers getting elected instead of just donating $.
Abortion is the same kind of sham. Their experts know if they actually win they'll lose it's effectiveness; being the angry underdog / "victim" is far more motivating than playing defense from the winning position. If they lock in abortion bans in the courts it will boost the other side greatly while weakening their support until the court is repaired. Sometimes you can find the experts stating this stuff, it's where I got the idea from. An inhumane DFL expert would want to lose the abortion fight for the political wins it would fuel.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:17AM
It's got nothing to do with party. Getting rid of lower than minimum wage labor would absolutely destroy the US economy and both parties know it. Neither wants them gone and neither wants them paid like citizens.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @01:55AM
Why didn't she simply report her employer? Surely in this era of anti-immigration, anyone hiring an illegal immigrant would be thrown in jail.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:06PM
Do-gooders, those purely naive and those with virtue signaling and tribal partisan motives.
Because political discourse here has no basis in intelligence. It is based on feelz, points per zinger delivered on Twatter, most convincing umbrage portrayed, broadcast by biased media as "news" or "journalism", when it is either entertainment or a political hit piece for the owners.
In this circus, your right to be heard is based on your identity. If you are part of whatever odd combination of (unchangable) traits, you are a "victim" and can have a voice. If you are just a normal person doing your job, you are an oppressor and can just STFU. Elections are still real, so the two parties will try to eliminate choice beforehand.
The dirty secret of course is that both parties encouraged illegal immigration. Before Trump, the politicians would throw a bone every so often to the people concerned about illegals taking their job (then fail to implement it). But Trump is a president who couldn't care less about party politics. He'll give teeth for example to a law passed by Saint Obama, he'll get excoriated in the media, but he just doesn't care.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:20PM (7 children)
The 0.1%
When you can't drive down wages by offshoring, the only hope is to drive down wages by importing labor competition. Works at all levels, right up through H1-Bs.
To turn border control into a racism issue that Democrats have swallowed hook, line, and sinker, was the most brilliant piece of marketing our overlords ever accomplished. The traditional Republican elite is of course for it as well -- their problem is that many in their base are affected negatively by the downward wage pressure (as are similarly situated Democrats) but they haven't bought the marketing ploy, and so those Republicans are a lot more quiet on the issue preferring the usual back-stabbing process.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:49PM (6 children)
If you enjoy eating green things, thank an employer of illegal immigrants. Especially in woke California.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @01:58AM (4 children)
Our greens are only slightly more expensive and we fly Central Americans in, pay them $15 an hour, house them, and fly them home after harvest.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @08:08PM (1 child)
Do you know if this common in the industry, or are you an outlier? Can you recommend any brands to buy from or avoid for people who want to avoid supporting exploitative businesses?
(Score: 2) by dry on Saturday October 05 2019, @01:53AM
This is BC. Seems quite common for farms who can't get Canadians to do the labour
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:17AM (1 child)
If by slightly you mean several times the current price, you are correct. If you mean anything else, you are an idiot.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by dry on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:47AM
It competes with foreign greens in a free market and much of our produce (mostly red or blue) is a major export, partially due to its competitive price, quality is good when the workers are happy or at least satisfied.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:02AM
You're shitty scripts don't work when you hop IPs!
You're a shitty shitty shiiiittty human being. Truly the Trump of SN, a loud mouthed cowardly conman.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:30PM (1 child)
Eat out? There you go. You do.
Don't eat out? Where do you get your food from? There you go. You do.
Ever stay at any hotels/motels/etc.? There you go. You do.
Done business anyplace that used a janitorial service? There you go. You do.
Ridden in taxicabs? There you go. You do.
Buy your Made in USA products? There you go. You do.
"Wait! I know my last taxi I rode in [janitor who cleaned the floor] [hotel maid] wasn't an illegal immigrant!"
You're still complicit in the system that wants the lowest price for something. The lowest price comes in part by finding ways to exploit the people who give you that product or service.
Your red herring aside, it isn't a matter of supporting illegal immigration. It's a question of that when there are illegal immigrants in the country do we not want them as taxpayers, and do they deserve the same basic human rights we would give to everyone, everywhere, anytime? Or should they be turned away from food banks, education, and hospital emergency departments?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:56AM
You are saying we should give up completely on controlling who enters and lives in our country.
Just admit it.
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:59PM (1 child)
New York City bans discriminatory use of 'illegal alien,' with violators subject to fines up to $250K [usatoday.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:06PM
Idiots. $250k fine? Yes, that will withstand a court challenge. And what the hell? Trying to assign intent if you call ICE? Again, that law won't last.
They should have made the fine reasonable ($1k max or something), and not involved "Called the police for an illegal act".
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Immerman on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:24PM (12 children)
> If you are an illegal immigrant, you have broken the law and are a criminal.
Only a misdemeanor though - which means our legal system should treat it similarly to jaywalking unless and until the legislature makes it a serious crime.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:20PM (11 children)
Furthermore, in the US, we don't generally treat petty criminals like animals.
We CAN protect our borders without treating people as sub-human in the process.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:18PM (10 children)
Hahahahaha!!! You know how I know you've never gotten in trouble with the law?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:30PM (9 children)
You're right that I've never gotten in trouble, and you may be right about what you imply that I don't know something important about how such people are treated.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:52PM (8 children)
Cops are awesome when you need them and colossal shitheads when they're busting you.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:06PM (3 children)
Guyger
Not an isolated problem. Funny how you white bread morons never get upset about such things. I'll leave it to the reader to figure out why that is.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:12PM (1 child)
Wow. That really was some impressive nonsense. Not a single thing you said was either relevant or correct.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @03:55AM
Because you're an ignorant fuckwit. Not like I was actually hoping for a glimmer of self-awareness from an alt-lite dipstick.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:20AM
https://heavy.com/news/2018/09/amber-guyger/ [heavy.com]
Who the hell has to go to their front door to check the address they live at?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:54PM
I'm not sure.
If I have to be more afraid of the cops than the criminals, I'm not sure I want to call them for help.
However, where I live, I don't think I would have this fear.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @06:01PM (2 children)
Really? My experience has been that cops are frequently nowhere to be found when I actually need them. And, yes, there are a significant fraction of cops who can be "colossal shitheads" over the most trivial of infractions. Not all of them, but they certainly exist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @07:32PM (1 child)
They preferred to try and find something on ME after calling them out, rather than actually listen and respond to the reason they were called out. And after a long and lengthy conversation in which they couldn't find anything illegal they promised to file a report, of which nothing ever came of it.
*MULTIPLE TIMES*
And this is in a lower middle class white neighborhood, around a mile from million dollar mansions. I can't imagine what it is like for people in the actually poor parts of town, which interestingly look more like an internment camp given all the traffic and utility pole cameras and the police presence there. The wealthier neighborhoods for reference have none of those cameras except on a select few major intersections and appear designed to let people enter and leave the area without license plate scanning if the follow the proper roads. The poor neighborhoods on the other hand, you can't walk out of without being tracked. America: Home of the Coward and Land of the Fee.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @08:29PM
So move out. It's apparent they don't want you there, and you sound intelligent enough that you could afford a solid middle class neighborhood at least.
Plus, you may not have need then to call the cops so often.
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:00PM (4 children)
There's no such thing as illegal immigrant. Principally, freedom of mobility takes precedent over national and constitutional laws via treaties. Legally, nations are under the right to control the entry and exist of migrants, but once someone from a different nationality (or no nationality) is in your country, they're migrants with full rights whose only crime is illegal entry / crossing national borders. And since extradition for unlawful entry is illegal unless caught right on the border, countries that ship away "illegals" are the ones committing crimes.
It all comes down to a simple definition: A nation is a group of people who can secure their borders, manage their resources and cloth, house and feed its people. The right to control exit and entry to your territory is actually a duty and it ends where the international treaties say the border ends, not when you like it to end in your "constitutions free zones". Deporting migrants, whether you'd like them to be ones or not, is illegal. It's why Trump is building the wall: Because that's the only legal way to take control over immigration under international laws. Otherwise, you're just the biggest gang in the neighborhood.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:14PM (2 children)
Neat, you're not just wrong on your fundamental claim, you're wrong on pretty much every detail. That takes dedication and effort.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @09:03PM (1 child)
[Citation needed]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @10:59PM
FTFY
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:49AM
Are you a SOVEREIGN CITIZEN ?
Heh heh.
Ask Wesley Snipes if you can get away with ignoring the law because you don't like it.
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:13PM
Your precious laws are irrelevant here, the government just wants data. Any excuse that will be accepted is good enough. Remeber that time the CIA used a vaccine drive to steal the DNA of children in a country they weren't even at war with? [theguardian.com] This isn't about laws, it's about using a set of piecemeal justifications to create an ever more detailed map of every human's biometrics over time. Your citizenship didn't protect from warrantless wiretaps, and it won't protect you from having your DNA stolen when the time comes.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:15PM (4 children)
It is LEGAL to come to this country and apply for asylum.
Also, FTA:
(Score: 1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:18PM (3 children)
Not exactly. Seeking asylum is a defense that can be used in cases of illegal entry; not precisely the same as being legal. Like "fair use" in copyright cases or "self defense" in murder cases.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:28PM (1 child)
Fair Use is also legal. Semantics doesn't change that.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:22AM
Theory vs. Practice. In theory it's perfectly legal to blow a guy's brains all over the wall if he was threatening you sufficiently. In practice you're still very likely going to have to shell out for a lawyer if you want to stay out of jail.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:11AM
Whaaaa whaaa I'm a hateful prick more worried about poor schmucks looking for a better life, and not the criminal con artist busy destroying the country.
Real fucking stable all these geniuses are, totally not whiny boomers evsding every shred of personal responsibility.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @10:31PM (1 child)
Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. Serious question: do people charged with misdemeanors typically get a DNA sample taken and fingerprinted? I'm genuinely curious to know.
Are you sure about that? My understanding is that ALL immigrants typically have to give up "biometric data", which I take to be retinal scans and fingerprints at least. If you or someone else knows better, please enlighten me.
I am truly trying to understand, hence my questions above. I await enlightenment at your soonest possible convenience. Thanks.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday October 03 2019, @10:48PM
DNA From Genealogy Site Led to Capture of Golden State Killer Suspect [soylentnews.org]
Proposition 69 (DNA) [ca.gov]
Fingerprints may be collected for misdemeanors, depending on the state. These records could end up at the FBI.
The system wants everyone's biometric data and even whole genome sequences. We're getting there eventually.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:08PM (10 children)
An illegal immigrant is an "undocumented migrant" like a car thief is an "unlicensed car owner."
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:55PM (4 children)
Nice, I wasn't expecting a car analogy on this story.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:07PM (3 children)
Responding to your sig:
As Dungeons & Dragons got more nerdy (AD&D version 3),
it did become 0 based to a degree. Remember all those percentile based tables? You had to roll a 10 sider twice, once for each digit of the percentile throw.
The results ranged from 00 to 99.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:10PM
It goes without saying of course that the 10 sider die itself is zero based.
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:41PM (1 child)
00 is supposed to be interpreted as 100 in every system I've used with a percentile die, but I'll confess ignorance of AD&D v3.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:44AM
In that case, maybe it's not zero based (00), but it does have a problem with ignoring the carry bit.
;-)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:22PM (3 children)
If we take their fingerprints and DNA, then there will be no such thing as an "undocumented" immigrant, either legal or illegal.
Then there will be no such thing as an undocumented
worker slavecitizen.The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:31PM (1 child)
Huh, good point. They won't logically be able to call them "undocumented" instead of "illegal" anymore. Well, no, the biggest fans of illegals prefer appearances over logic or they wouldn't be calling them "undocumented" in the first place, so I suppose it won't matter.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:04AM
Who's a good widdle fascist? You are! What a good widdle goose stepper, who's a goose stepping man child? Coochee cooooo, make sure to bring your hot dogs for that late niggt lawn bbq party! Such a gooood widdle fascist, yes you are!
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:31PM
DNA will be collected on the mere allegation of a crime, not on conviction. Innocent until proven guilty also applies to brown people.
(Score: 2) by helel on Friday October 04 2019, @02:23AM
Turning that reasoning around an undocumented migrant is as much an "illegal immigrant" as a car thief is an "illegal car owner." If you want to play the language game it would make more sense to say they are in immigrant present in the country illegally in the same way you'd say a car thief is illegally in possession of the stolen vehicle.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:46PM (10 children)
A cop in Virginia just got suspended for turning in an illegal alien in a car accident.
He was driving without a license, without insurance.
The arriving cop (as he should), also checked to see if he had a warrant out for his arrest, which he did for failing to show up to court for a deportation hearing.
Cop turned him over to ICE, which arrested him.
For this, the cop gets suspended from his job for "bad judgement", as you are not supposed to arrest illegals apparently anymore in the United States for breaking the law.
Yeah really! ..this country has gone totally nuts...
https://www.theblaze.com/news/officer-suspended-for-helping-ice [theblaze.com]
https://lawofficer.com/news/virginia-police-officer-suspended-releasing-undocumented-immigrant-warrant-ice/ [lawofficer.com]
PS, They are not "undocumented migrants", they are illegal aliens
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bussdriver on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:47PM (9 children)
Police regulations vary by locality, they are not federal police. Some localities prohibit working directly with ICE in this manor and the COP needs to be punished for breaking the rules; which they are required to know and just like YOU, ignorance of the laws is no excuse.
The perp has to go thru the local system the cop works for; they decide what to do and if it should be handed off. Simple as that. If they had a policy on this matter for handing to ICE then the cop could because that would be a locally decided matter.
THE WISE REASONING for such policies:
1) Localities come 1st, they pay the cops. Your boss decides even if the bigger org says otherwise; RARELY wise to go over the boss's head.
2) localities realize that communities NEED witnesses and community cooperation. Illegals will not give you CPR, etc. and save your life if the police show up and nab them. Illegals will not LEARN traffic laws or buy car insurance if they get deported... putting us at risk for injury and $ loss if not bankruptcy (medical costs.)
3) Sex trafficking / drugs. What illegal underage girl is going to snitch on her pimp when you factor in ICE as well as the fear of death?
New policy idea: Advertise a path to citizenship for snitching on crime and you'd have too many informants! (including snitching on their employer for hiring them illegally.)
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:56PM (5 children)
Is there a federal agency other than ICE you feel comfortable with the local police exercising their independence of? How about the FBI?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @07:38PM (3 children)
Yep. State cannabis legalization is an excellent example.
What's more, state and local police are *not* required to enforce Federal laws. If the Federal government wants to enforce its laws, it can do so.
As such, the local police can and do exercise their independence from Federal agencies. You're not real familiar with the legal system in the US, are you? Are you an immigrant (not that there's anything wrong with that) or just woefully uninformed?
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @07:41PM (2 children)
The federal government granted a waiver for this, so its fine.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2019/06/20/congress-votes-to-block-feds-from-enforcing-marijuana-laws-in-legal-states/#4e3dede4b62e [forbes.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @07:58PM
Yeah...not so much.
While the underlying bill (https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3055 -- the cannabis bit is Amendment 398 [congress.gov]) was passed by the House.
However, the bill has not even been taken up by the Senate, much less passed by that house. As such, It hasn't been presented to the President for signature. Which is how stuff becomes the law. Funny how that works, eh?
So, as the old song goes, the bill/amendment is, "I'm just a bill, I'm only a bill. And I'm sittin' here on Capitol Hill. But I'm hopin' and I'm prayin' that someday I'm gonna be a law."
Nice try though. Keep working on it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @07:58PM
Yeah...not so much.
While the underlying bill (https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3055 -- the cannabis bit is Amendment 398 [congress.gov]) was passed by the House.
However, the bill has not even been taken up by the Senate, much less passed by that house. As such, It hasn't been presented to the President for signature. Which is how stuff becomes the law. Funny how that works, eh?
So, as the old song goes, the bill/amendment is, "I'm just a bill, I'm only a bill. And I'm sittin' here on Capitol Hill. But I'm hopin' and I'm prayin' that someday I'm gonna be a law."
Nice try though. Keep working on it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @10:51PM
Since you apparently don't know, the FBI typically will wait for a local jurisdiction to invite them. Even when there is some sort of federal issue at stake they prefer to wait to be invited in. The only example I can think of where they don't wait for an invitation is if there are serious federal issues (e.g., civil rights) where it appears that local law enforcement is either the perpetrator or not properly enforcing the law. Even then, they do so reluctantly as the locals tend to be mighty resentful and uncooperative in such cases.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @06:46PM (2 children)
>THE WISE REASONING for such policies:
>1) Localities come 1st, they pay the cops. Your boss decides even if the bigger org says otherwise; RARELY wise to go over the boss's head.
Uh no, Federal Law comes first. If localities don't like that, they can secede from the union with all that entails. Federal laws are not 'optional' in this country.
>2) localities realize that communities NEED witnesses and community cooperation. Illegals will not give you CPR, etc. and save your life if the police show up and nab them. Illegals will not LEARN traffic laws or buy car insurance if they get deported... putting us at risk for injury and $ loss if not bankruptcy (medical costs.)
Guess you haven't spent much time in California, the big scam here is (for those illegals who even bother to get a drivers license) is get insurance, show proof of insurance, then cancel it a month later. Lots of them are doing it, as this is a "Sanctuary State" and nothing happens if you get caught. These uninsured drivers are getting in accidents and leaving other drivers (or their insurance) footing the bill.. happened to me once, one crashed into me in a parking lot, tried to run off (I didn't let him get away), but left my insurance company footing the bill. Police did nothing (Sanctuary). yeah, we need more of that..
Re: CPR, I can assure you, we are not getting floods of illegals coming in here trained in CPR... heck, most can barely even speak English.. CPR trained illegals.. an extreme edge case if there ever was one..
3) Sex trafficking / drugs. What illegal underage girl is going to snitch on her pimp when you factor in ICE as well as the fear of death?
Well, if her pimp had been deported to begin with, it wouldn't be our problem (nor hers). Same goes for the girl as well if she was also illegal. The point is we don't want or need (nor can we pay for) all of Latin America's problems here in our own country.
>New policy idea: Advertise a path to citizenship for snitching on crime and you'd have too many informants! (including snitching on their employer for hiring them illegally.)
An even better policy.. sweep and deport... then the problem goes away and we don't have to worry about it anymore. And yes, we need to arrest and charge (Americans in many cases) those hiring them as well, so illegals are not motivated to come here to start with.. Heck, you don't even need to 'sweep', they are standing out in the open right in front of Home Depot looking for day-work every freaking morning when I drive by.
(Score: 2) by bussdriver on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:28PM
to quote anonymous:
state and local police are *not* required to enforce Federal laws. If the Federal government wants to enforce its laws, it can do so.
As such, the local police can and do exercise their independence from Federal agencies. You're not real familiar with the legal system in the US, are you? Are you an immigrant (not that there's anything wrong with that) or just woefully uninformed?
(Score: 2) by bussdriver on Wednesday October 16 2019, @07:00PM
Pimps are not illegal immigrants! You can't deport them. Trafficking and abusing the vulnerable is practical and clever (it's already evil just add some brains.) What kind of moron thinks all these problems come from the Americas? Only a Trumptard with the maturity of understanding of a youth.
The argument that license and insurance do not matter because some people don't is a common logic fallacy so I won't insult your maturity for illogical human reasoning. I will hint: illegal murder happens and a surprising number get away with it your logic says those laws do not work; don't bother with them.
FYI: I'm in a zero fault state and way too many people without insurance (citizens! usually low income. and taking their license away doesn't do anything...) Nothing is done to them either; we pay for insurance just for the uninsured because it's so common. Until you put the status into the digital key that unlocks the car you won't solve it. Your personal anecdotes are extremely poor policy justifications.
CPR is an example; most people actually don't do CPR correctly anyhow (seriously look it up.) getting literal is just being densely argumentative; most likely an indication of a strong emotional bias which a trained debater will see as a sign of weakness. Not that most the post isn't also.
Getting into how the USA creates and amplifies a great many problems is beyond your capacity of thought; but is not entirely off topic since the claim that it's 100% their fault is false. Won't even address the argument of responsibility for what portion is our fault; but probably that is needed for the immature... Even if that is the case, that is not an argument to not do something to help them with their problems if anything because they bleed into our space; but empathy and understanding combined with our wealth and success can also be a motive (not a christian but that is a tenant of the #1 religion.)
If you want to stop illegals; you go to the sources - it's not cost effective to create a nazi state to catch them all; remember, the nazi had many slipping bye them despite extreme measures. The sources are employers, immigration policy, and foreign policy. The illegals themselves are a product of or subject to those. Also note that they are not lazy welfare recipients, they've made more effort than most Americans would to find gainful employment and they go through all that to end up here looking for and wanting work because it's not available to where they are. As for fixing their own nation by themselves; we haven't been able to fix even simple problems in ours; we just lucked out in that we inherited success like a trust fund brat got theirs. (that is probably over your head but that is ok with some effort you can still learn even if you hate being condescended to sometimes the other person is above/ahead of you; that is not a permanent position.)