How ICE Picks Its Targets in the Surveillance Age:
The winter after Donald Trump was elected president, strangers began appearing in a parking lot on southern Washington State's Long Beach Peninsula, at the port where the oyster boats come and go. Rather than gaze at the bay or the boats or the building-size piles of bleached shells, two men — one thinner, one thicker — stared at the shellfish workers. The strangers sat in their vehicle and watched the workers arrive in their trucks. They watched the workers grab their gear and walk to the docks. The workers watched them watching, too, and they soon began to realize that the men were from Immigration and Customs Enforcement. When the workers made eye contact, the officers nodded politely, but they said very little. For weeks, they just watched. Then the workers began to vanish.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @09:39PM (26 children)
Illegals removed from the jobs they have taken from Americans. Americans back at work again. Enforcement done the old fashioned way, by physical presence. Thank you, President Trump.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @09:47PM (5 children)
I thought he was going after the 'bad hombres'. So all these oyster workers were all kinds of mean nasty ugly looking people like mother rapers, father stabbers, and father rapers?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @09:57PM
He probably is too, but the NYT would never mention that because it goes against the narrative of leaving our doors wide open.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @09:58PM
I'm sure the oyster pickers were all law abiding citizens. Oh wait... What the hell did I just say?
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @10:08PM (2 children)
* ugly looking people like mother rapers, father stabbers, and father rapers?
These were worse: they were oyster shuckers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @10:12PM (1 child)
Throat oysters are the worst.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @01:42PM
I assume you're unfamiliar with the butt oyster? Or the Dutch and Turkish oysters?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @10:50PM (2 children)
The blurb only mentions workers disappearing, it doesn't mention their bieng replaced. So I'll have to conclude the part about "Americans back at work again." is made up.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @10:58PM (1 child)
They don't teach reading comprehension in school anymore? "The oyster farms need workers. The hotels are hiring."
(Score: 2) by number11 on Wednesday October 09 2019, @05:21PM
If they raise the pay enough, citizens will take the jobs. If citizens don't take the jobs, then they haven't raised the pay enough. Double the wages and add good fringe benefits, what's the problem? I don't know what shellfish workers get paid, but apparently the greedy bosses aren't paying enough. Yay! Better wages (and higher prices) for all! Sure it will raise the price of oysters, but if it gets too high, we'll buy oysters from China instead.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @10:58PM (15 children)
The employers chose to hire them over Americans, so the jobs weren't "taken." You aren't owed a job, you socialist, you.
Really, if you're so outraged about illegal immigrants being hired by companies, how about, you know, fining those companies into oblivion? Strange how that doesn't seem to be done.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @11:21PM
They should be. Pretty much the only reason people want them to come is to exploit them in some way. For the feelings. For the money. For the ability to lord something over others. Depending on who you read for votes. No one wants to think of the people who are being fucked over, the illegal aliens. Perhaps you should join in with your exact idea and boycott those companies. But you wont. You want to continue to let those companies exploit them?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by shortscreen on Tuesday October 08 2019, @11:45PM (13 children)
The idea that blame should be assigned to employers for hiring illegal immigrants seems to be a popular one that doesn't get challenged (on forums like these). It probably varies by state, but I found out that in my state employers are already required to collect documentation supporting the employee's eligibility to work and submit it to the government. It's on the gov to verify whether their status is legit, not the employer. It's possible that some dirty employers are coaching the illegals on how to better fake their info, in which case maybe some legal action could be taken against them. But I don't know what else anyone expects. More big brother stuff like national ID papers or databases? Forcing employers to refuse anyone who looks like they might not be a citizen? I, for one, don't want any of that.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:03AM (10 children)
Instead of more Big Brother and letting the president (through the executive branch) decide who is permitted to earn an income to support their family - we should go back to what we had when america was great - seasonal worker visas. They basically don't exist any more, but they were the norm until the 70s or so.
One of the big problems is illegal immigrant labor is more attractive to employers because they will put up with all kinds of abuse - unpaid overtime, unsafe work environments (without risk of injured people suing), sexual harassment, etc. So the very fact that they are illegal makes it harder for US citizens to compete with them.
Make it easy and simple for seasonal workers to be legit and all those things that give illegals 'unfair' advantages go away. Which means shady employers can't get away with being shady anymore and everybody starts competing on a level playing field.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @06:13AM (7 children)
We have seasonal worker visas. Problem is there are people who don't qualify, or otherwise don't give a shit about our rules, that want to make American money in jobs "not even the blacks want to do", in the words of Vicente Fox.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @07:14AM (6 children)
No, the problem is that rules have been made so excessively restrictive that most people who could previously comply with the rules can't any more.
Its such a bullshit argument to raise the bar 100ft and then blame the people for not being able to jump 100ft high instead of blaming the people who raised the bar to such an absurd height.
Ah, you think you are clever laundering your racism through someone else. Nah, brah. You aren't fooling anyone.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:19PM (5 children)
We have decided that at this point we only want exceptional people to come live in our house, because members of our own family in significant numbers are in danger of losing their livelihood with more strangers coming in. Strangers do not have a right to come to our house. Trying to do so otherwise is breaking in.
You are trying to rationalize the thought process of a thief. "Oh, the bank has so much money, but they don't give me any. The bar is too high, I should just take what I want."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @04:21PM (1 child)
And your rationalizing is, to say the least, absolutely breath-taking. Most of these illegals are working minimum wage jobs. They ain't living the good life on the gravy train. Perspective, dude. Get some.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @05:36PM
I do not care what they work at. We didn't want them here. They stole themselves in anyway. Get them the fuck out now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @04:45PM (1 child)
And you are assuming that strangers coming in displace the 'family' workers. First, ignoring that unless you are Native American or Inuit that you or your forebears were once the strangers. So no, I'll reject your, "I got mine, fuck you," attitude. But second, you assume that any displacements caused are the worst thing, when immigration is actually generally good for the economy [publicintegrity.org]. For more than one reason [cbsnews.com]. Tell you what, let's do it your way. You can get back to me about how you feel when cherries are $15 per pound, your lawn costs $100 to mow, and your restaurant bill triples in the course of a year, and milk prices hit $7-$8 per gallon.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @05:53PM
Yes, and we had to follow the rules to come and work here. It was very involved, annoying and a lot of times disorganized. We were immigrants, but we followed the law.
You really think that if not for Mexican slaves our lives would be unaffordable? Did the TV tell you that on behalf of the exploiting class? I guess that you work, supposing that you do, in a field that has not come under pressure by foreign invaders yet. But spare a few cubic millimeters of brain to consider that when Americans are employed, they will spend their money in America, possibly with your employer, and thus make your job a bit safer.
(Score: 2) by meustrus on Thursday October 10 2019, @04:37PM
Exceptional people don't pick tomatoes or scrub floors. Your bank's "poor" facilities manager let some janitors in the back door anyway, because you aren't willing to pay him enough to afford "exceptional" (white union male) janitors. If he doesn't, you'll fire him and hire someone else who gets the floors clean without any of this uncomfortable and expensive talk about (colored) migrants.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 2) by stretch611 on Wednesday October 09 2019, @11:56AM (1 child)
The reason why many of them put up with this abuse is that as an illegal, they believe that they will be deported if the complain or report their employer.
A seasonal or temporary visa for labor will not fix the problem because illegals will still deal with the abuse, while temporary workers, here legally, can complain more and have legal rights.
There needs to be a multi-layered approach.
First, I do agree with the seasonal or temporary labor approach... with one caveat. There should be a 50% labor tax on jobs through it. That tax should go to programs in the US to educate local workers so that if they don't have a job they can get one. It is also a necessity to make sure that they are hiring illegals because they can not find US citizens to work the job and not just trying to save a buck and paying crap wages. (IMO, many jobs go unfilled not because there is not people willing to do them, but people not willing to do them at the horrible wages the employer wants to pay; Why work in a sun scorched field being paid minimum wage and getting your arms ripped to shreds by vines and weeds, when you can get a minimum wage job at McDonalds in an air conditioned restaurant?)
Second. The seasonal workers should not be a burden on society. While they will be paying rent, and generally property taxes (which are paid through rent) will take care of children's education. However, all medical expenses should be paid through the employer. Any expense of the seasonal workers on society should be paid for by the employer... not the US taxpayers. And yes, full payroll taxes should be paid as well. While the seasonal worker will most likely not be here to collect social security and medicaid, these programs always need funding and an employer should fund them regardless of where he gets his workers.
Third. Regulation. All seasonal and temporary workers in this program need to be informed of their rights. They should know that they are entitled to the same breaks as US workers. They should know that they are entitled to overtime after 40 hours a week and all the other regulations that protect US workers. They should also be given contact information of the Department of Labor where they can report abuses of these laws outside of the employer. Just because they are seasonal does not mean that they are not protected from abuses like US citizens are.
Finally. The Stick. Allowing seasonal immigrants will virtually guarantee that all an employers labor needs are fulfilled. However, if they skirt the rules to get cheap illegal labor they need to be punished... severely. A minumum fine of $100,000 per worker, per year(rounded up) that they were employed. For skilled workers/high paying jobs, the fine should go up. It needs to guarantee that there is a heavy penalty on not playing by the rules. In addition to paying the fine, the illegal worker should be compensated by the company on how much they should have made had they been hired legally. Most important... IT SHOULD BE ENFORCED... REGULARLY and FULLY.
Only with everything will this idea work. The focus of illegal workers should be the company, not the person trying to make ends meet. Temporary foreign workers are fine, if they are not being used to depress wages and the above will do a good job at that. Without proper enforcement, companies will ignore the laws.
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @01:20PM
Bolding - the strongest possible proof of intellectual rigor on the internet!
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday October 09 2019, @05:19PM
I think that's mostly because it's illegal for employers to hire illegal immigrants.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by ElizabethGreene on Wednesday October 09 2019, @07:11PM
This is the I-9 form you fill out when starting a new job. One of the kinks in the e-verify system is that an employer is not permitted to question documents if the person passes e-verify. This makes employment with copies of valid credentials a common way to gain illegal employment. The radio show This American Life did a fascinating special on it that is certainly worth a listen.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Sunday October 13 2019, @07:04AM
Illegals removed from the jobs that Americans aren't interested in doing. Americans not back at work again, but work also not getting done. Lose/lose situation. Thank you, Games-show Host Trump.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 08 2019, @09:47PM
"Ice Picks" good one, Times.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Username on Tuesday October 08 2019, @10:37PM (30 children)
You always hear about companies like Tyson Foods getting raided by ICE, 100s deported, but the companies never seem to get any kind of penalty/punishment for profiting from illegal labor. I can understand illegals harvesting or gathering food then selling to companies, but actually hiring them on with fake SSNs and names like Jean Flambeau should get some serious fines or jail time. I think 1 million dollars per employee should be a good fine with supervisors getting one year of prison, managers and hr getting 10 years, CEOs 100 years.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 08 2019, @10:56PM (3 children)
I'd put most of the blame on the previous system of tacitly permitting illegal immigration and employment, to benefit the Republican's clientele due to cheap labor and the Democrats by guaranteed votes once they got amnesty.
If someone comes in and presents faked documents for employment, can you really expect a company to go and have the documents authenticated at their cost and still at their risk? You should be able to trust papers that purport to be issued from the government.
In industries and locations where it is politically expedient to provide true enforcement of employment eligibility, the E-Verify program seems to be somewhat effective. I guess Tyson won't be forced to use it because of their economic weight in depressed areas, and the fact that the beneficiaries would be black Americans that get hired.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 08 2019, @11:47PM (1 child)
E-verify actually seems to work. The number of illegals at any given venue drops wildly when it is implemented. I've seen it work, first hand, at work. We STILL HAVE a few illegals, I'm very certain. But, most of our Latinos today are almost certainly legal. Since I have zero power and zero authority to investigate any individual, I can't be certain, of course. But I can say that all of the obvious illegals have left our company, and the not-so-obvious illegals have decreased.
Maybe this is a good place to point out that not every Hispanic worker is an illegal? Many of us forget that there have ALWAYS BEEN Mexicans in the US. Not every Native American and/or Hispanic departed the American southwest when the US annexed what were Mexican lands. "Mexicans" have lived here since before there was even a Mexico, after all.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday October 09 2019, @04:55PM
You'll know it's working when prices start inflating to pay the increased overheads that hiring legal workers entails. (Or alternatively when workers who have the force of the labor code working for them assert their rights, thus driving up costs from those who were exploited).
And you may want to keep in mind that there have been instances of perfectly legal citizens being deported. Not many, but it happens. Which would be a case of the "obvious" illegals.... not being illegal after all. And maybe they got out of your company and started working someplace where they'd be allowed to stay and be (at least somewhat) respected.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @07:50AM
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday October 08 2019, @10:56PM (16 children)
hiring them on with fake SSNs and names
They have to! Otherwise people start asking questions... Gangsters come in and tell them how many they gotta hire. This is just how business is done. People shouldn't be so nosy!
/s
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 08 2019, @11:49PM (15 children)
Gangsters? Citations needed, unless you're referring to hiring quotas established by the government.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday October 09 2019, @12:24AM (14 children)
Right, gangsters leave a lot of evidence lying around, you know, because they really do want to get caught.
But yeah, come to think it, quotas do provide a nice cover.
These people hire illegals for a reason. The mob brings them in on the back of the truck. They pay their tributes and stay out of jail, just like the kid selling bootleg cigarettes in front of the factory gate. Human trafficking is big money, even in the USA.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 09 2019, @12:34AM (13 children)
I'm leaving for work right now, or I'd explore that further. In my experience, in my reading, I've never run across an instance of legitimate businesses being extorted to hire illegals. It always seems to be the choice of the business to hire that cheap labor.
All of the illegals that I have met have entered this country of their own free will. When they crossed the border, they were free to go their own way, and decide where they would apply for work. You seem to be referring more to illicit businesses such as whore houses, sweat shops, and such. The idea is intriguing - but I gotta get moving right now.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Reziac on Wednesday October 09 2019, @02:45AM (12 children)
This is how it was explained to me by a contractor in SoCal who used illegals: He paid them cash under the table, and to keep them showing up on time, he paid them *more* than he would have paid legal workers. How could he do that? Because 70% of the cost of legal workers in CA is crap paid to the state, mandatory benefits, etc. So even tho he could not deduct their wages for tax purposes (being as noted under the table) he was still ahead of what it would have cost him to hire legal workers and for every $10/hour, pay another $20/hour to the state. (Yes, it really is that high in CA.) Better to pay $15/hour, get a better grade of worker, and save himself money, and make his workers happier. (Wouldn't you rather have that extra cash in your pocket instead of it being siphoned off by the state?) Meanwhile, because these workers ARE illegal, they won't gripe about the lack of benefits or workman's comp. But since they can get all sorts of aid from the state, they're not really out anything.
BTW you know the "baby eater" was trolling AOC? and a damn good job of it!
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:25AM
200% overhead does not pass the laugh test.
Did you ever consider that the guy was lying to you?
That maybe he had a vested interest in exaggerating the facts in order to relieve himself of culpability?
Or maybe he just told you what you wanted to hear?
Payroll taxes on $40K (which is roughly $20/hour, these numbers are less for $10/hour)
So, worst case that's about 35% - nowhere near 200%
(Score: 3, Informative) by helel on Wednesday October 09 2019, @05:54AM (3 children)
I've actually done the books in California and your numbers sound vastly inflated. The combination of taxes, workers comp, and other benefits never exceeded 40% or 50% of payroll. Now construction might be a different beast - workers comp is probably higher, for one thing - but it's hard to imagine that it's 150% of payroll higher.
I suspect you've been misinformed.
That said, I was once paid $700 to help someone avoid about $50 in tax liability. Some people hate taxes enough that they'll pay vastly more money just to avoid them. Perhaps your contractor contact had books that looked more like $10/hour pay and $4/to the state but decided they'd rather pay $15/hour to hire undocumented immigrants?
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday October 09 2019, @07:58AM (1 child)
I actually worked this out once, back around 1995ish... for one part-time minimum-wage employee, fully legal, $7500 in wages magically became $24,000 in total costs once everything mandated by the state was added. Since this exceeded my gross, needless to say it didn't happen.
About ten years back CA announced intention to increase one or another (I forget if it was workmans comp or what) of these employer obligations, and Costco threw a fit about it, threatened to pull out of the state entirely -- per their figures, 70% of the cost of each employee was state-mandated -- benefits, insurance, payroll tax, comp, they had a whole list with numbers for each. [At the time Costco's starting wage was $10/hour.] Someone on Another Forum[TM] just posted similar numbers for their business. So there ya go.
It probably becomes less painful as you go up the ladder to higher wages, or to salaries instead of hourly -- I expect by that point employee take-home outweighs relatively fixed costs like medical coverage and insurance. But it's very different down in the low-rent trenches, and it's no mystery why illegal labor is popular for low-end jobs -- otherwise the value of those employees simply can't offset the cost to employ them.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @01:18PM
Holy shit is that weak-ass response. Tons of hand-waving — zero evidence. You are a fool.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:57PM
Business Administration 101 teaches that payroll costs an employer right at 50% over the employers wages. You make ten dollars an hour before taxes, the employer is paying fifteen. There is variance from state to state, and even a little variance within some states, but overall, nationwide, it was supposed to be 50%.
Of course, today's accountants didn't learn from the books I was given to study. They've come up with all new loopholes and other crazy shit since then. Some of them didn't study ANYTHING.
Would you believe that there exists a company in the US that believes it wise to keep a 40 year old truck on the road? It's somehow "cheaper" to keep that rolling liability looking for a victim, than to purchase a new truck. Even IF the company couldn't depreciate and write off the new truck, the liability is just insane!! I have no idea why the insurance company covers the damned thing.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @06:25AM
By your account, that should split the problem up into two independent issues: The shadow economy, where government barriers to otherwise legal employment leads to people getting paid under the table, and then the hiring of people not permitted to work in this country.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:49PM (5 children)
Yes, I'm aware of what the baby eating woman is. I've not seen where she has been identified, only that the PAC owned up to the stunt.
I'm just keeping that sig for the time being because it offends so many people, LOL.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:52PM (2 children)
Why would you need a sig to offend people when your opinions do that quite nicely?
--
Putin Upset That Trump Asked Another Country To Interfere In Election
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:58PM (1 child)
Judging from the number of comments condemning the signature, it is doing it's job better than I can.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 10 2019, @02:20AM
Lol, demonstrating yet again that conservatism is nothing more than triggering the libs.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday October 09 2019, @04:58PM
It's not so much offensive to me as signalling you're either uninformed or can't tell truth from fiction. But your call, of course.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday October 09 2019, @05:20PM
Okay, just makin' sure :) After all, some o' them folks need offendin'!!
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 08 2019, @11:25PM (6 children)
Ponder upon what would happen economically if even three million low cost workers suddenly disappeared (and there are almost certainly more than three million illegal immigrant workers). Especially when you have wicked low unemployment numbers. Now you know why nothing gets done about it by either party no matter what they say on television.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 08 2019, @11:55PM (1 child)
Start freeing the nonviolent offenders caught up in the prison-for-profit scheme, and put them to work. Tighten welfare benefits. We have millions of people sitting on their asses, doing nothing constructive. Without the illegals to exploit, those millenials who are working two, three, or even more jobs to make ends meet may be offered full-time jobs with all the perks and benefits that come with full-time jobs.
I support almost all efforts to close the borders.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @06:31AM
I am suspecting that some of the drive to hire the "undocumented" is because employers can't get liability coverage hiring Americans that have been convicted of bullshit charges.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @01:41AM (3 children)
A sudden investment in automation? A better long-term prospect? prices go up a bit? Those pre-battered Tyson chicken strips disappear from store shelves, and you're left with the cheaper, more evironmentally packaged, _better_ store-brand version of the same?
Honestly, it all comes down to a company trying to cheap out. Honestly, if you're paying 25% more, or 50% more, for labor, what will that really do? If you took the top five C-level salaries and divided it among the number of employees, how much does that amount to in terms of their current pay? If the employees' pay is such a small thing, then presumably marketing and materials make up the real cost. You'd see a 5-10, maybe even 15% cost increase on things. Woohoo, one dollar more on a five dollar package.
Honestly there's very little downside to doing exactly this. Even, pick an industry -- especially one that would benefit from automation -- and go for it.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday October 09 2019, @02:50AM (2 children)
One dollar more on a five dollar item;
$10 more on a $50 item,
$100 more on a $500 item,
$1,000 more on a $5,000 item;
$10,000 more on that $50,000 car.
Does that put it in perspective?
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @07:09AM
Why would you think labor costs scale like that?
People who assemble $50K cars aren't paid 500% more than people who assemble $10K cars.
I swear every single one of your posts is indicates you dropped out of school around the 5th grade.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @07:36PM
Shall we look at this from the perspective of adding a 25% tariff to all those goods?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @12:03AM
Get punished? Shit son, they're the one informing ICE to come on over and pick up the illegals a day before pay day.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:49PM
Heard an interesting rumor that these raids conveniently happen when the workers try to unionize. Fining the company would discourage this behavior.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by edinlinux on Tuesday October 08 2019, @11:19PM (5 children)
>How ICE Picks Its Targets in the Surveillance Age
as they should.. it is ICE's job to prevent illegal immigration... finally someone is doing something about it.
Why is this a problem?
Or do we want the entire lower / unskilled American population living in homeless camps in cities across the country because they can't find any work since they have been undercut by illegals working under minimum wage from coast to coast?
(Score: 1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 08 2019, @11:28PM (4 children)
No longer a good argument. Partisan Republicans are going to side with business and partisan Democrats are going to side with the illegals. No major party even pretends to give two shits about ordinary Americans anymore.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 08 2019, @11:56PM
This ^
(Score: 2) by edinlinux on Wednesday October 09 2019, @12:05AM
Yup, agreed, unfortunately that is true..
(Score: 4, Interesting) by c0lo on Wednesday October 09 2019, @12:22AM
Because there are NO ordinary Americans, never were and never will be.
Everybody knows the Americans are exceptional**; some of them even have high IQ, so high it allows them to fish. (large grin)
--
** there's that -ism capturing this reality, you may like some explanations of why is came to have a bi-partisan support [theweek.com] (warning: usians, you may be exposed to names of political figures that may trigger uncontrollable rage in you)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:41AM
The idea that the labor market is fixed is one of those myths that people who never went to college believe.
The fact is that adding people to the labor pool creates more jobs. For one thing, all those people are also consumers. But there all kinds of other effects too. Like when a stay at home mother with professional skills is able to hire a nanny or a housekeeper, that frees them up to enter the job market at their level which increases economic activity (their employer can take on more projects) which leads to other jobs being created, like admin and support jobs that wouldn't exist without that new employee needing support services.
The fact is that there are zero studies that have found illegal immigrants reduce employment rates for anyone. At worst they have zero impact on unskilled (no high school diploma) labor while significantly boosting employment rates up the scale. Same thing with bringing skilled labor like doctors, etc. Those all have a synergistic effect increase employment at all levels - even the people at the same level that they supposedly 'compete' with.
There was one study that examined the effect of Castro emptying his prisons into Miami. At first it looked like it had a slight depression on unskilled wages. But it turns out that was just cherry-picking - unskilled wages were already trending downward long before the mariel boatlift and the trend was actually unaffected.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @12:08AM
Ok, so they're using gathered information, to which they generally could get access for the asking, to find people in violation of the law, and then take them into custody pending further proceedings.
I would call this the law of unforeseen consequences at work, except that people have been yelling about the foreseeable consequences of the government's use of surveillance for decades. This shouldn't be either weird, or surprising, or anything except grounds for a re-opening of the discussion around the 4th amendment and how various wars on everything resulted in it being gutted. Again, as even the TFA (however grudgingly) notes this has little to do with Trump. These things have been under way for a long, long time. Just getting faster and better. We fought this crap under Clinton, we fought it under Bush II, we fought it under Obama, we're fighting it under Trump. At what point do enough people start to care?
By the way, immigration is the wrong place to tell these sob stories. However sad they are (and they are sad) they reflect successes, not failures.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 09 2019, @02:06AM (1 child)
Make hiring illegals a corporate death penalty offense, and from the head down: the entire C-suite not only goes to prison for at least a decade, but get stripped of all income and all assets, solid and liquid. That will put a stop to this shit real quick.
Never going to happen, though; as others have pointed out, the Republicans are going to turn a blind eye because MUH MONEYZ and the Democrats are going to ignore it for fear of alienating (hurr) several of their voting blocs. And if you think food is expensive now (and I do, even goddamn oatmeal and rice and beans are expensive...) just wait until the shadow workforce of as-good-as-slaves disappears. The reason no one in power is going to touch this is that when they do and meat *starts* at $15 a pound for cheap questionable lips'n'arseholes, there will be countrywide riots.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @02:27AM
Oh, right! Good! Let's immediately do that for all similar laws! After all, all corporations have all the evidence available to the police, right?
.... right?
I mean, the government does play open cards with the corps, right?
... they don't?
Well, shit.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Wednesday October 09 2019, @08:46AM
The answer they wont tell you though, maybe they are not aware or maybe they shill like many people on the internet pro trump in oct 2019...the 'person' making the top comment is enforcing the class interests of the upper class while pretending to represent the interests of the lower class. (the go to standard all day long republican lie on fox news)(these people also forget there is no reasonable way to apply for legal status to do such jobs, that system is intentionally broken, another classic republican tactic, they will move heaven and earth for a futile, megalithic construction project but not make a simple place where you can apply to work in the u.s.a.)
Added bonus of the snuck premise that two completely different levels of legal interpretation are in play here, one for the rich, one for the poor. In this case every single one of the disappeared people probably generates 100,000 dollars somewhere for rich people and very well paid domestic spies like the thinner and thicker guys.(and a few thousand disappeared children, with plenty of teens housed near mar a lago)
The obvious crime of hiring illegal workers is completely ignored, training you for how you should treat your beloved aristocracy.
The poor get the maximum police state, the rich get to epstein til their hearts' content and make a % off every single fuckup in the system.
You can get special attention from secret police in the united states for many reasons, you dont have to be a non-white ethnicity, that is where they really trick you. White people like myself *can* get exactly the same attention from the police if you are any kind of activist or organizer whatsoever, excepting perhaps the republican party which at this point is a cult already anyway. But the immigrants might believe all white people are out to get them, and people legitimately being harassed by the police will be gradually socially engineered towards stromfornt controlled opposition idiocy.
The perps will keep getting away with this so long as people are hypnotized by the propaganda, but judging even by the low quality of the current shilling, trumps faction has become a house of shitcards and it is getting almost impossible not to see how the united states has become a national socialistic, or nazi, state. A category 100 volcano hurricane of shit. Masking itself as white supremicist while being puppeted by israel.
Secret police, people disappearing, barbed wire camps to concentrate undesired minorities spread out all over the place, fusion centers where nearly all local authority is removed, all police agencies, including the presidents bodyguards, placed under a 'homeland' security run by operatives of a different country and/or mobsters.
And this government somehow really, really wants to collect all the guns of the citizenry because to of the rise in completely inexplicable random violence by nutjobs with known contacts to aforementioned secret police, or completely bizarro backgrounds and motivations.
The republican party is destroying the republic, so unless you want to plunge the entire world into chaos and with your lifes work take a huge shit on your heritage as an american, I would wake the fuck up and take action.
This is not going to improve through inaction, there are people trying to destroy our country from the inside and outside, and they are obviously winning.
Trump, Bolsanaro, or Guido are not real Americans, they are clowns the aristocracratic cultural hegemony sent to destroy our countries and way of life for easier top down control and extraction of resources. And of course, to epstein.
#pickaside
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