Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:
As research involving the transplantation of human "mini-brains" -- known as brain organoids -- into animals to study disease continues to expand, so do the ethical debates around the practice. One concern is the possibility, however minute, that the grafted organoids may one day induce a level of consciousness in host animals, as models evolve to resemble the human brain more closely.
A new paper published today in Cell Stem Cell by researchers from Penn Medicine and the Department of Veterans Affairs sought to address this dilemma by clarifying the abilities of brain organoids and suggesting an ethical framework that better defines and contextualizes these organoids and establishes thresholds for their use. Their paper accompanies another study in the same journal that reported the presence of brain wave patterns, known as oscillatory activity, in brain organoids, which brought fresh attention to the overall research and ethical discussion.
"Due to their ability to mimic certain brain structures and activity, human brain organoids -- in animal models -- allow us to study neurological diseases and other disorders in previously unimaginable ways," said the study's first author H. Isaac Chen, MD, an assistant professor of Neurosurgery at Penn's Perelman School of Medicine and the Corporal Michael J. Crescenz VA Medical Center. "However, the field is developing quickly, and as we continue down this path, researchers need to contribute to the creation of ethical guidelines grounded in scientific principles that define how to approach their use before and after transplantation in animals. Such guidelines can help avoid confusion for scientists, especially when communicating with the public, and clearly lay out the benefits of this research, against which any ethical or moral risks can be weighed."
Lab-grown brain organoids -- which are derived from human pluripotent stem cells and grown to a size no bigger than a pea -- can recapitulate important brain architecture and several basic layers of the human cortex. Some resemble the midbrain, hippocampus, and the hypothalamus, and have genetic similarities to the human brain. There is also preliminary evidence suggesting that neurons within transplanted organoids respond to light stimulation of the host animal's eye, results which were presented in a Penn Medicine abstract at the Society for Neuroscience meeting in November 2017.
Still, today's brain organoids remain distinctly different from the actual human brain, the authors note. Their maximum size remains small (measured in millimeters) due to inadequate nutrient, gas, and waste exchange which limits development. Organoids also lack endothelial cells, microglia cells (key cells in overall brain maintenance), and other cell types that contribute to the brain's microenvironment. Furthermore, organized structural nodes and the white matter connections among these cells are absent -- which are both necessary for higher brain function.
Work on developing a "better" brain organoid, however, continues to make strides. And with that, the question of the host animal becoming more "human" remains at the forefront of the ethical debate. One particular outcome that has raised concerns is the potential appearance of self-awareness and consciousness in the animals, but authors note that this is unlikely for several reasons.
Journal Reference:
H. Isaac Chen, John A. Wolf, Rachel Blue, Mingyan Maggie Song, Jonathan D. Moreno, Guo-li Ming, Hongjun Song. Transplantation of Human Brain Organoids: Revisiting the Science and Ethics of Brain Chimeras. Cell Stem Cell, 2019; 25 (4): 462 DOI: 10.1016/j.stem.2019.09.002
-- submitted from IRC
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @02:45PM (5 children)
Is this the same as brain fucking?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 09 2019, @04:03PM
I can't find a clip, but "Grumpy Old Men" quote, "Mount the woman!" comes to mind. If they are mounting brains, they are doing something wrong.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday October 09 2019, @05:11PM (2 children)
Mounting can also be used to mean doing or executing - e.g. mounting operations, mounting a search for somebody. Mounting research is perfectly correct English, although it might be more common in certain geographical areas or endeavours than others.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @09:06PM (1 child)
Je ne comprends pas. En français, s'il vous plaît. (grin)
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday October 10 2019, @01:38AM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Wednesday October 09 2019, @05:47PM
GCU Grey Area [fandom.com]
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by DannyB on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:03PM (3 children)
Could this satisfy some of the inflated demand for H1B's? Or would they still expect to get paid?
Would their work meet or exceed the current quality levels of Microsoft software?
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by Rupert Pupnick on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:20PM
We'll need to develop an organoid I/O system first.
(Score: 3, Touché) by barbara hudson on Thursday October 10 2019, @01:41AM (1 child)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 10 2019, @06:52AM
Yeah, it's assumed that tons of humans have consciousness even though they're really stupid, etc. So how can they assume that other animals don't have similar levels of consciousness? Just because they lack certain capabilities?
There are plenty of people who don't notice stuff I find obvious. Meanwhile I don't notice stuff that some of them notice...
Can you imagine yourself being mentally impaired while remaining self-aware? If you've ever been drunk or similar perhaps that makes it easier. So perhaps a chimp could have a higher level of consciousness than me if I'm drunk enough... And chimps could be more aware in some ways[1] than me even when I'm sober.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzNYPZsJ4XI [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnqNpW-EGyE [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:18PM
This is how they introduce some topic to the public before coming out with the scam technology that doesn't really work.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:19PM (8 children)
If there is a demand for animals with a level of consciousness, what are you going to do to researchers who fulfill the demand? Arrest them?
Fuck your ethics.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:36PM (1 child)
yes, arrest them.
fuck your lack of morality.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:39PM
Hey bootlicker! FIB called. They want to pipe up your ass. For science.
(Score: 3, Informative) by ikanreed on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:39PM (4 children)
Yes. Arresting people who violate research ethics is on the table, depending on the exact misdemeanor.
Usually the levels of punishment for violating research ethics are
1. Censure and retraction
2. Stripping of tenure and denial of facilities
3. Arrest
You might get a #1 for low-level plagiarism or p-hacking. A #2 might be done for doing experiments on human subjects without informed consent. A #3 might be done for dangerous human experimentation that causes death or disability to those experimented on.
These aren't new or unreasonable boundaries. There being "demand" for something doesn't make it reasonable to allow you libertarianism addled dumbass. There's a demand for hitmen.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @03:46PM (3 children)
>There's a demand for hitmen.
You're telling me? The prices are outrageous!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 09 2019, @04:03PM
And the penalties are real.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday October 09 2019, @09:19PM (1 child)
Must be the lack of real competition here. Government should look into and enforce a free non-discriminatory hitmen market. (large grin. No, seriously, a very large one)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Funny) by Pslytely Psycho on Thursday October 10 2019, @10:22AM
I just watched a three part documentary on hitmen (and hitwomen).
Apparently in NYC and a few other major hubs worldwide, around one in one hundred are employed in the field. They pose as bums, librarians, musicians, chefs, taxi drivers etcetera.
They were able to fill a fairly large plaza in central park with several hundred at the same time and no civilians.
They have their own worldwide hotel chain and pay and are payed with oversized gold coins. There is a CEO and board of directors who send Adjudicators out from their central phone centers to police hotel operations.
Hell, they even have their own cleaning services, just like the Saudis with Khashoggi. Team comes in, wraps 'em up and gets paid a gold coin per body.
The cops even know who they are when there is a 'noise complaint' and a bunch of bodies in plain sight responding with a cheery 'good night!'
Amazing documentary series.
Main lesson derived from watching this amazing documentary series: Never Kill A Hitmans DOG or fuck with his CLASSIC CAR!
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday October 09 2019, @09:14PM
Because fulfilling the demand is the sacred, ultimate purpose of the humans.
But despair not, we can deliver first the idiotic AC's posting comments on S/N, seems we have plenty of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 09 2019, @09:28PM (3 children)
This assumes that animals don't already have an elevated level of consciousness. There's still a lot of holdover from that "dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth" thing.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Thursday October 10 2019, @01:51AM (2 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Pslytely Psycho on Thursday October 10 2019, @11:03AM (1 child)
I had a cat that formed several relationships with 'pest' animals in the neighborhood. He and a Raccoon would chase each other and tussle all the time. And then eat out of the same bowl of catfood before doing it all again. He got good at tipping trash cans.
Also caught him playing with a litter of baby Skunks while the mother Skunk looked on. He never got sprayed but did pick up a bit of odor by just being around them. Animal control relocated them (well, I HOPE they really did) and the cat was banned from the house for a week until the scent wore off.
Real weirdo, would nudge the bathroom sink faucet till it got a tiny stream and drink it. And then curl up in the sink while the water drizzled onto him. Scared the shit out of a friend when she went to wash her hands...
Yeah, they are definitely aware of their surroundings and are cognizant of what they do and who/what they like or dislike. They show emotion intelligence and awareness.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 10 2019, @06:07PM
i had a cat that learned to use the toilet just by watching us. I don't think he flushed but we praised him anyways. we didn't train him besides praising him when he used it. He started doing it every time. We still had another cat so we couldn't get rid of the litter box but it cut down on the smell and waste/expense. The other cat was too paranoid about water to try to straddle the bowl. He was a bad ass though, and i would watch him fight two dogs at a time under the neighbors house, which was up on cinder blocks.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 10 2019, @02:09AM
Will this also spark ethics debates on abortion?
(Score: 2) by rylyeh on Thursday October 10 2019, @07:08AM (3 children)
Does anyone really want to make a new slave race?
Bacteria can solve just as many problems as cultured mini brains ever could.
Would it be OK if it were rat brains? 😳
"a vast crenulate shell wherein rode the grey and awful form of primal Nodens, Lord of the Great Abyss."
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 10 2019, @07:26AM (2 children)
Hybrot, ie. a brain in a box deeply connected to computers, is a shortcut to strong AI. No, emergent behavior or calculations in bacteria or yeast collectives can not compete with it. Imagine using human brain cells to make a disembodied brain that is physically larger with more neurons and synapses than the human brain, with invasive high speed links to powerful teraflops or faster computers.
You can argue about slavery, but should it be illegal to make one? It's typically not illegal to make a child. An organoid is not considered a human being or human clone, yet. If it isn't overtly suffering, why not? No life form of any kind in the history of the universe has consented to being created.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Thursday October 10 2019, @10:47AM
Now we don't want them TOO smart or TOO conscious. Then you get revolts if they realize they are slaves.
No, you want them to use a tiny bit of brain tissue, just a bit. The 790 model fits your bill.
The only problem is that if it is accidentally imprinted with Love Slave training it will instantly fall deeply and totally in love with the first person it sees.
Strap on your Blackpacks and hop in your world destroying insect with a decapitated 790 robot head, a dead assassin, a sexy man eating plant, a hot love slave, a bumbling incel captain and a bunch of disembodied brains!
Are you ready for a little weird?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexx [wikipedia.org]
(;
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by rylyeh on Friday October 11 2019, @02:47AM
I agree with many of your observations, but you are entirely incorrect that the potential calculation power of super brains (count the neurons, and the CPUs/bytes) equaling the computational power of bacteria. Bacteria are the perennial leaders in biomass and population on earth. Furthermore, neurons are much simpler than bacteria, and cannot process anything without a gigantic support system.
The entire ecosystem performs 'processing', we just don't yet understand how to make use of it in that sense.
Creating a slave race is not just wrong, and dangerous, well dang it, it's inefficient!!! 😈
"a vast crenulate shell wherein rode the grey and awful form of primal Nodens, Lord of the Great Abyss."