Submitted via IRC for Bytram
How fake news spreads like a real virus
When it comes to real fake news, the kind of disinformation that Russia deployed during the 2016 elections, "going viral" isn't just a metaphor.
Using the tools for modeling the spread of infectious disease, cyber-risk researchers at Stanford Engineering are analyzing the spread of fake news much as if it were a strain of Ebola. "We want to find the most effective way to cut the transmission chains, correct the information if possible and educate the most vulnerable targets," says Elisabeth Paté-Cornell, a professor of management science and engineering. She has long specialized in risk analysis and cybersecurity and is overseeing the research in collaboration with Travis I. Trammell, a doctoral candidate at Stanford. Here are some of the key learnings:
Related Stories
FiveThirtyEight is covering the efficacy of fact-checking and other methods to combat the spread of misinformation and disinformation. Fact-checking, after the fact, is better than nothing, it turns out. There are some common factors in the times when it has been done successfully:
Political scientists Ethan Porter and Thomas J. Wood conducted an exhaustive battery of surveys on fact-checking, across more than 10,000 participants and 13 studies that covered a range of political, economic and scientific topics. They found that 60 percent of respondents gave accurate answers when presented with a correction, while just 32 percent of respondents who were not given a correction expressed accurate beliefs. That’s pretty solid proof that fact-checking can work.
But Porter and Wood have found, alongside many other fact-checking researchers, some methods of fact-checking are more effective than others. Broadly speaking, the most effective fact checks have this in common:
- They are from highly credible sources (with extra credit for those that are also surprising, like Republicans contradicting other Republicans or Democrats contradicting other Democrats).
- They offer a new frame for thinking about the issue (that is, they don’t simply dismiss a claim as “wrong” or “unsubstantiated”).
- They don’t directly challenge one’s worldview and identity.
- They happen early, before a false narrative gains traction.
It is as much about psychology as actually rebutting the disinformation because factors like partisanship and worldview have strong effects, and it is hard to reach people inside their social control media echo chambers from an accurate source they will accept.
[Though often incorrectly attributed to Mark Twain, one is reminded of the adage: “A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes”. --Ed.]
Previously:
(2020) Nearly Half of Twitter Accounts Pushing to Reopen America May be Bots
(2019) Russians Engaging in Ongoing 'Information Warfare,' FBI Director Says
(2019) How Fake News Spreads Like a Real Virus
(2019) More and More Countries are Mounting Disinformation Campaigns Online
(2019) At Defcon, Teaching Disinformation Campaigns Is Child's Play
(2018) Why You Stink at Fact-Checking
(2017) Americans Are “Under Siege” From Disinformation
(2015) Education Plus Ideology Exaggerates Rejection of Reality
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @03:43AM (33 children)
Stand by your ally, stand by the Kurds who fought the crazy death cult IS/daesh.
Work it out with Erdogan. EU loser don't got no leverage with him/Turkey. America does.
Let's do the right thing. If America can't do the right thing, who can? Russia? China? India? EU?
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @03:57AM (1 child)
Re-Elect that M.F.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @01:01PM
Finish off the GOP and elect AOC in 2024.
(Score: 0, Troll) by shortscreen on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:12AM (30 children)
Dems love immigrants in general. And suddenly, they also love Kurds. Why aren't Dems pushing asylum for the Kurds? If they are in danger, let's evacuate them.
Just once, I would like advocates of so-called humanitarian wars to be forced to explain why the solution can only be occupying/attacking a place and not simply moving people out.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Arik on Wednesday October 16 2019, @07:21AM (18 children)
They thought the US would carve out Kurdistan and give them their independence. And I told them many times we would not.
I struggled to explain to them how I was so sure that wasn't happening. I wish I could explain it more fluently. But I always knew that wasn't what was going on.
It's very unlikely that any outside force is going to carve out Kurdistan in the immediate future. And it's highly unlikely that a Kurdistan carved out by outside forces would serve the Kurdish people in the way they deserve to be served.
Kurdistan needs to be made by Kurds. Not by some neo-Darius.
And at the moment, the best bet for the Syrian Kurds is to reconcile with and join forces with the government of Syria.
Which actually appears to be happening. Finally.
And to come back around to your other point, moving them out?
I wouldn't oppose them moving out voluntarily - they are free human beings to go where they please.
But I would not in any way encourage it. When the smartest and bravest and best leave a people, that's not good for that people. Their homelands need them.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2, Offtopic) by shortscreen on Wednesday October 16 2019, @11:28AM
I remember hearing talk about partitioning Syria, but by that time it was already evident that the Assad government wasn't going anywhere. I don't know how much real support the idea ever had in Washington, Tel Aviv, or Riyadh. Of course Turkey would oppose it. And it would be trouble for Iraq as well.
Asking the Kurds/Afghans/whoever if they want to leave would get right to the point of my proposal. That's how we find out whether they are the damsels-in-distress that the interventionists characterize them as, or just some folks that like getting free weapons from foreigners. Or maybe they want us to butt out, period.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 16 2019, @09:46PM (16 children)
You mean the faction (not government) led by Assad? No way. He's the reason there's a civil war in the first place. It's too bad the Russians are giving him a second chance, but at least he'll be their ball and chain.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday October 17 2019, @05:31AM (15 children)
The Syrian civil war started with a civil uprising and demands for liberalization, but quickly became hijacked by jihadis and turned to the opposite end. Assad is no angel but he's by far the best possible option at this point. The Kurds aren't dummies.
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/syria-kurds/2019/10/13/id/936899/
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 19 2019, @01:53AM (14 children)
Let us recall Assad created this mess in the first place. By throwing our bets in with him and the Russians, we're just setting the stage for the next civil war. It'd be better to just kill him and go the Somalia route.
(Score: 1) by Arik on Saturday October 19 2019, @01:59AM (13 children)
Arguable.
"By throwing our bets in"
No sir. That's where you're fundamentally misunderstanding.
We aren't, or shouldn't be at the very least, throwing our bets in on the next likely winners.
We should be getting out of the game.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 19 2019, @12:12PM (12 children)
Anything is "arguable". What makes disagreement on that statement even a matter of rational debate? He was in charge when civil war 1.0 happened. Nobody else's tyranny, injustice, and absolute indifference to human suffering made that happen.
And let Russia play without contest? There's a reason the Cold War happened in the first place.
(Score: 1) by Arik on Sunday October 20 2019, @07:02AM (11 children)
"And let Russia play without contest?"
"Play?" Play what, exactly?
They don't seem to have any desire to play the global hegemon game, and even if they did, they have a fraction of the resources so it would only bankrupt them even more quickly.
What they're actually doing seems quite unobjectionable. Quite beneficial to us, as well. It doesn't serve any genuine national interest to make sure the middle east keeps burning.
"There's a reason the Cold War happened in the first place."
Sure, but I'm interested to hear your version of this. What was the reason?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday October 20 2019, @03:49PM (10 children)
Who else was in charge?
For what? Jihadis didn't create the drought conditions or the Syrian government. Syrian policies did that (for a good example, emptying the water table to grow cotton).
Looks like they have both desire and some competence to play the global hegemony game.
To control the entire world.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Sunday October 20 2019, @04:11PM (9 children)
And at this point the initial liberal rebels have done one of three things, depending on personal circumstances. Rejoined the government, gone jihadi, or fled the scene entirely.
"Looks like they have both desire and some competence to play the global hegemony game."
Where? How?
"To control the entire world."
So suicide?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday October 20 2019, @08:05PM (3 children)
And what's going to happen in a few years when that combination happens again because of Assad? Sorry, the guy is just a jihadist rebellion away from causing problems for US allies again.
Sorry, rebellions aren't always won by people we like. It would still be better than keeping Assad in charge because it would be a precedent for changing governments.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday October 21 2019, @06:17AM (2 children)
Anyway, that's not really the point. It's Syria. It's their country. We don't own it. We have no right to have troops on their soil to begin with.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 22 2019, @01:30AM (1 child)
I don't doubt that he will repeat his missteps for two reasons: first, such failure is baked into the system - it's a tyranny which extracts wealth from its subjects, and second, he's just not that competent.
No, it's not Syria, it's a particular faction with just as much credibility as ISIS.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday October 22 2019, @04:25AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday October 21 2019, @04:06AM (4 children)
(Score: 1) by Arik on Monday October 21 2019, @10:19AM (3 children)
Sure, wow, cool, yeah.
That really puts it in perspective.
Not a bit worse than 120 civilian megadeaths.
F*rget about the military casualties. No one cares. A bunch of transexuales blancas con AR15, ¿es no verdad?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 22 2019, @01:31AM (2 children)
(Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday October 22 2019, @04:31AM (1 child)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 22 2019, @08:04PM
And closer to a democracy than it's been in a long time.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:10AM
Not sure if trying to be funny, but it's not really funny. Just fucking dumb.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday October 16 2019, @01:40PM (8 children)
Let's set up a caricature strawman, then knock it down.
Kurds
arewere our allies in fighting ISIS. Now lots of terrorists are free once again thanks to Trump. All the money and blood spent in the war on ISIS is shat upon by Trump. And the blood and treasure of our allies as well -- abruptly without notice. Against the better advice given to Trump, even by his own party.It's amusing how Trump supporters cannot see the benefit of maintaining a stabilizing force in the region. Short sighted. Like a republican business choosing to NOT give out halloween candy because it is socialism, and teaches getting something for nothing (OMG!). There could be no possible immediately visible benefits for that cost of candy.
While stabbing our allies in the back (yet again) Trump says: "alliances are easy". Protip: you can only stab allies in the back so many times. The effects of this new mistrust of the US may persist long after Trump is out of office, if ever.
The idea of evacuating, or immigrating a multi million population as a solution is incredibly stupid, even for someone creating a strawman.
But hey, I can strawman too!
Repubs hate immigrants and non white people in general. They hate Kurds. They hate anyone different from themselves. Different skin, different ideas. They think that problems in the world somehow can never affect them in their comfortable enclaves.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @02:21PM (3 children)
Shouldn't we shit on this war? After all, it was the Obama government and Britain that had grand plans in Syria, weakened Assad's government, and allowed ISIS to take a foothold.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @03:52PM
Yours is a stunning lack of understanding of the events in Syria. In truth, the Syrian government of Bashar al Assad was fragile and brittle long before Obama ever was President. Bashar, like his father before him, has been a brutal dictator who mistreats his people and doesn't allow any dissent whatsoever. The uprising had its catalyst in the Arab spring and was a long time in coming. ISIS merely took advantage of that power vacuum. No one should have been surprised when Syria became embroiled in civil war.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 16 2019, @03:53PM (1 child)
Oh, I see. If Obama had anything to do with it, then it MUST be bad. Just as anything Trump does MUST be good. Any actual good or bad is irrelevant. Only the names of the players matter.
Since we're going to make good/bad judgements based on party affiliation, I'll throw out this: ISIS arose out of the failure "quagmire" of the 2nd Bush war.
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(Score: 1) by Arik on Monday October 21 2019, @10:23AM
Or out of the operational plan success condition sir?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:25PM (3 children)
A stabilizing force in the region? That is the greatest joke ever. This whole controversy revolves around multiple US-armed proxy forces and allies fighting amongst themselves, and some neocon shills being butthurt that an illegal, undeclared war might not go on forever.
I don't know what you thought was a strawman. Politicians definitely claimed that we needed to intervene in Syria to help the people there, just like they are now claiming that we need to remain there to help the Kurds, and just like they made similar claims about the Iraqi people before destroying that country and littering it with depleted Uranium, and just like they made similar claims about Libya before bombing it back to the stone age. They keep saying that we need to help people, now look at the results. Please explain how migration is "incredibly stupid" and how it worse than invading and occupying one country after another based on questionable pretenses (or outright lies, take your pick).
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:26PM (1 child)
I quoted four sentences.
The first one is pure strawman. Overgeneralized to the point it is a joke, as you intended. Nothing is that simple when you're talking dozens of millions of people.
The second sentence is similarly ridiculous and a strawman because it's entire point is so you can then laugh at the ridiculous generalization you just created. I can do the same thing by making ridiculous generalizations about republicans -- but that doesn't make it true.
The third and fourth sentences suggest a plan of action which is equally ridiculous and perhaps impossible to carry out. Do you know how many Kurds there are? Where would you evacuate them to? Do you really think the US is where all oppressed people in the world should go? If not, then maybe is it worth trying to make the world a better place? No? Because there could be no possible benefit to us to having good alliances, fighting terrorism, and being a deterant to dictators like Erdoğan to slaughter people? Maybe?
The US cannot magically fix all the world's problems. If there were such simplistic solutions we would (hopefully) already be doing them.
Back to your 2nd sentence. There is much more to this than the Kurds. There are all the ISIS fighters that the Kurds had captured. Now all freed thanks to Trump's ill considered knee jerk reactions -- against the advice of real adults in his own party. The Kurds had worked along side the US troops effectively.
I like to make jokes too. And it's fun to make political jokes. I often do it. Sometimes I even make fun of democrats. Example strawmen I've made fun of in the past would include creating a federal department of gender to recognize the 89 different genders, and establish federal gender codes for them that would be recognized for all "gender" fields on all federal forms. States would be expected to adopt the same gender codes. The federal dept of gender would also determine which genders could share restrooms. For instance, 89 genders migtht only require 11 restrooms. That is efficient, because we don't want to mandate businesses to have to over-build restrooms, because that is an inefficient use of resources. And I'm just getting started, but I'll stop with this joke.
What Trump has done here is a big mistake. Many republicans see it. This will hurt the US relations with allies long after Trump. The US will now have to deal with newly freed ISIS terrorists. The entire war on ISIS was for nothing -- including the efforts of our allies -- both in money and blood. Setting up a strawman to make fun of democrats for Trump's stupidity isn't going to make the emperor suddenly have clothes. The Kurds aren't nearly the only concern of this stupidity. Done in a total knee jerk fashion. No consultation with allies or anyone. No consideration, I would even say no understanding of the consequences.
I hope that explains it better.
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(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:45AM
I am coming to the conclusion that you don't know what a strawman is.
Millions of people already fled Syria, all on their own without your help. So I'm going to say that it is quite possible.
I don't personally believe that everyone in the world with a gripe should come to the US. But some people appear to believe this. In extreme situations where people were being wiped out in a genocide or some other calamity then I would support giving them asylum. So how do YOU decide who needs to be granted asylum and who is important enough to come to the US? If you can't answer this question, don't bother replying.
FFS, Erdogan is part of the alliance! You can't fight terrorists or deter dictators when you are simultaneously supporting terrorists and dictators. Try considering what is really happening in the world, and not just the adapted-for-TV fairy tale version of events.
(Score: 1) by catholocism on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:05AM
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:38PM
Mostly because we've been granting Kurds asylum for the last thirty fucking years.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @04:20AM (6 children)
1. Become an authoritarian hellhole.
2. Require that the internet be validated by the Ministry of Information.
3. Only allow truth to be transmitted, as validated by panel of interlocking experts, think tanks and independent NGOs[1].
[1] You are poster #42158273, currently serving #2134, please wait patiently and have a nice day.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by anubi on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:18AM (5 children)
Education.
All of us know the indignation of watching a-holes pulling fast ones on good trusting people, then taking their ill-gotten gains to buy their houses out from under them, and claiming those people deserved it because they were so gullible.
But then, an educated public is apt not to trust or obey leaders that don't make sense.
I have been involved in techno-snow jobs. Lots of suits, ties, papers, signatures, theater, and name-dropping. Extremely disgusting. Good pay. But you hate yourself. I could not do it. But I wasn't high up enough that people would take me seriously when I tried to warn them how the scam works.
Then I would think of Steven Krivet of New Energy Times trying to warn investors of some unexplained fast ones in Rossi's E-Cat presentations. Being I have been involved in design of industrial heat transfer, I caught on to what Steven was pointing out, but nothing he could do to tell all those hedge fund managers and government officials about the bad science. These guys are way too high up to be accountable to the laws of physics like the rest of us are.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday October 16 2019, @01:51PM (4 children)
It is amusing how little of our resources we spend on education and how much on the military. And fossil fuel subsidies [rollingstone.com] which exceed cost of military.
An uneducated electorate is how we end up at Trump. I'm not complaining about party politics, but about the disgrace known as Trump specifically. I would gladly have GWB back instead, even though I didn't vote for him.
Trump doesn't appeal to intellect. Or reason. Thinking people are called "elites", etc. People are bullied, called childish kindergarten names, fat shamed, gender shamed, ethnicity shamed, and on and on. It's not a policy platform, it's a pep rally pandering to the most base instincts in supporters. How far we have fallen.
Education. We now have an education secretary who wants to take public school money and give it to the charter schools for rich kids.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @03:58PM
Actually, to me, it feels like being in Junior High School all over again.
Indeed.
(Score: 3, Touché) by shortscreen on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:57AM (2 children)
So you can overlook hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis?
I'm tired of people with no long term memory and no sense of perspective talking out their ass. So I'm calling you out. Get in here and explain how hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis is preferable to Trump calling somebody childish kindergarten names.
(Score: 1) by catholocism on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:12AM
normalizing torture vs getting elected on the normalization of torture, G.W would have at least squirmed at the word.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:11PM
No.
It's a matter of lesser of evils, or rather dangers.
As I said, I didn't vote for GWB. I didn't care for him as president. But Trump is simply dangerous. Who knows what unbelievably stupid thing he might do tomorrow, or even this afternoon, without any notice, advice or consultations.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 3, Touché) by shortscreen on Wednesday October 16 2019, @04:47AM (4 children)
Is this real fake news or fake real news? And did it, like, literally go viral!?
(Score: 2) by Mojibake Tengu on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:02AM (1 child)
With decision problem of fake news, we are getting bogged into Turing degree hierarchy swamp deeply. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_jump [wikipedia.org]
Honestly, I am very sure only machines could handle such situations, not humans.
Respect Authorities. Know your social status. Woke responsibly.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Wednesday October 16 2019, @11:31AM
You can't deal with propaganda using a binary yes/no test. Even verified facts still need to be contextualized, prioritized, and filtered by relevancy.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:58AM (1 child)
The negative of metaphorical is not limited to literally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Wednesday October 16 2019, @11:34AM
Nor is literal limited to the negative of metaphorical. They didn't say it was not a metaphor, just that it was not only a metaphor.
(Score: 2, Troll) by Arik on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:03AM (22 children)
So their canonical example of 'fake news' is predicated on a whacky conspiracy theory that an investigative team with 2 years and tens of millions of dollars to work with wasn't able to find a shred of evidence for.
Fake news squared.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Informative) by fustakrakich on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:28AM (3 children)
Story by democrats for democrats... even through their other half wants control too.
Also notice the click baity summary, whole paragraphs saying nothing, and in the subsequent story also. I can't read articles like this. Somebody have a talk with this submitter please. The style is really repulsive.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:57AM
Oof! And comment modded by the stereotypical oh so easily triggered democrat!
(Score: 1) by Arik on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:07AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @03:02PM
(checking who submitted) ah, that guy responsible for two of those "how your asshole affects your health" stories recently.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:12AM (10 children)
There. FTFY.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday October 16 2019, @07:10AM (9 children)
Bear in mind, we're looking for something that bore out that russiagate narrative. Donald Trump, working with the FSB, some evidence that the 'pee tape' was involved would be boukou bonus points.
A few or a few dozen prosecutions that didn't really have anything to do with that narrative aren't really germane.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @07:32AM (8 children)
You said:
The investigation was, in large part to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 elections. As a result of that investigation [wikipedia.org]:
I'd say those indictments were pretty germane.
I know you're really not this dumb. So I can only assume you're being disingenuous. Tsk, tsk Arik.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Arik on Wednesday October 16 2019, @07:48AM (6 children)
You're right. Not dumb enough to buy that analysis.
I've read your links and many more that you should read. I also lived through the events, in real time.
And you seem to me to be the one that is disingenuous here.
Giving you credit for using a good word though.
The narrative was that Trump worked with the GRU and hacked the DNC server. You know it and I know it.
None of those indictments provide any real support for that narrative. The most likely scenario remains that Seth Rich leaked the contents of the DNC server to Wikileaks, with no involvement from Russia or Trump. It's extremely unlikely that there is or ever was any pee tape. Sometimes a cigar inside the intern is just a cigar inside the intern, thank you Billary R. Clinton.
Trump hasn't been indicted and won't be. He'll be impeached, he'll be acquitted, he'll be more popular than ever. And we the people will have spent millions probably billions to do nothing more than employee a bunch of lawyers for several years to excrete a bunch of ink on paper.
Tsk tsk yourself, anonymous cowherd. Don't be the boy who cried wolf on my behalf, please. I can speak for myself.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @08:22AM
When did I say or imply that? Never.
You claim that's my "narrative." But I have no narrative. Just public documents detailing the actions of Russian nationals, supported by the Russian government to inject themselves into the US political process (and yes, that is against US law).
Review the indictments and see for yourself. I have better things to do than chase goalposts.
Toodles honey!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @08:31AM (3 children)
That AC was wrong. You are dumber than he thought! But that's what Trumpsters are - blinded, raging idiots.
So when people like you ask, how could Germany vote for Hitler, there you have it. People like you are the answer. Hitler was just a Trump of the 1930s. Just as dumb as Trump, except younger and less senile. Trump is more like Hitler in the final days in his bunker, staggering around under influence of drugs, blaming everyone except himself.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday October 16 2019, @09:50AM (2 children)
Yes, Arik is kind of the "dark matter" of dumbness. He buys Hannity's insanity. He accepts Giuliani's inanity. Dumbster. Not very bright. Has a great future in finance, probably.
(Score: 1) by Arik on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:04AM (1 child)
I've never bought Hannity.
I've never voted for Giuliani for anything aside from felon emeritus.
Kai akóma den pistévo óti o ellinikós sou eínai kalýteros apó ton dikó mou. Aftó eínai friktó. Oi Iápones sas boreí na eínai kalýteroi apó tous Ispanoús mou, stin kalýteri períptosi.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:12PM
Όχι τόσο άσχημα όσο με τραυματίζεις γράφοντας τα ελληνικά με λατινικά γράμματα.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @04:07PM
No, it wasn't, ya blithering fool! Go read the Mueller report. It's all there, in black and white.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:48PM
Oh, yes he is!!!
(Score: 2) by Rupert Pupnick on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:38AM (4 children)
That Trump colluded with Russia in the 2016 election was not proven, and not asserted in the Muller Report.
That Russia engaged in a 2016 election disinformation campaign is pretty much universally accepted. You seem to be disputing that.
(Score: 2, Troll) by Arik on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:53AM (3 children)
Not at all. But good reply.
No, the Russians were clearly involved in a disinfo campaign in 2016. Embarrassingly behind the times though, it was an exploratory expedition into a field all the major players had been into for years.
You sound well informed, so you could certainly name a few other actors engaged in such campaigns that were more important/advanced/effective?
What I'm actually "disputing" is that the Orange Man Bad aka Trumpster was working with foreign agencies. Nope. No evidence of that whatsoever.
Nor any logic to it, frankly. They had nothing to offer him, and he had nothing to offer them.
There were a ton of orgs involved in disinfo campaigns in 2016. The Russkies were one of the most insignificant of the bunch.
Prove I wrong?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Rupert Pupnick on Wednesday October 16 2019, @01:02PM (2 children)
We pretty much agree, although I do see the logic in Russia strongly preferring Trump as US President to Hillary. Improving relations with Russia was one of his major 2016 campaign themes. The logic of this kind of Russian political calculus has pretty much been validated by what has taken place in Syria in the last few weeks.
I agree that the Russian collusion accusation does not meet the standards necessary for an indictment or impeachment.
(Score: 1) by Arik on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:39AM (1 child)
Well I see that too. Not sure how you could presume I don't.
Of course they preferred anyone or anything to a third term of Clinton.
And in that, they and I agreed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlz3-OzcExI
Does that make me a Russian agent? To hear some it clearly does.
I think that makes no sense at all. I've had no contact with them, received no money nor even an encouraging word from them. But our interests do coincide. We'd both rather have the US ruled a bit less insanely, if possible, please and thank you. I watch RT, not a lot but probably more than any other tv news service other than MSNBC.
So I'm sure if I had been on facesmash in 2016 I'd be on a list of Russian agents. Saved only by my lack of social grace or engagement.
So of course they were looking at what they could do to help Trump win once it was down to the two of them.
But what I'm saying makes no sense is the idea they would talk with each other about this. That's just a dumb idea. From both sides; it could hurt, best case it wouldn't really do any good. So why would they do it?
Just for some sort of ego stroke? So Poutine can feel more secure around NuttyYahoo? What's the logic here?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:38PM
I can't read minds so I don't know if you realize this, but Trump asked Russia to hack his opponent. It was on live TV so this isn't some paranoud conspiracy theory.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @02:28PM
Well, how does "real news" spread, for example that the attack on our embassy in Libya spontaneously happened because people were angered after watching a "movie" produced with a budget of about 50 cents.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:45PM
The GOP controlled Senate was able to find that evidence you are desperately trying to ignore:
G.O.P.-Led Senate Panel Affirms Russia Attacked Election [nytimes.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:13AM (4 children)
I guess that would be like the BS they fed us about Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction". Many of us were fairly certain at the time that is was fake, but the mainstream media sure bought into it. Colin Powell .... a name we were familiar with from My Lai, a purveyor of government approved lies for many decades. Of course we were all just a bunch of conspiracy nutters. The mainstream media is obviously the only group with impeccable enough credentials to be allowed to judge what is fake and what is not. sigh.
(Score: 5, Informative) by maxwell demon on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:32AM (2 children)
It was not just the mainstream media. I remember Slashdot being infested with people who believed it. And a strong anti-France sentiment because the French government dared to say that they don't believe it.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:05AM (1 child)
Freedom fries [wikipedia.org], yeah. I remember them as well as the COW [wikipedia.org]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:15AM
You know, there is one establishment, a Diner in a Big City, that I will never partronize again, after they put "freedom fries" on their menu. It was equivalent to Windows95, for me.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:12AM
Many of them have switched parties repeatedly. When they join the republicans, they're neo-conservatives. When they join the democrats, they're neo-liberals. Call them what they are. The War Party.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:28AM (7 children)
If a government is doing it, wouldn't it be called propaganda? Or is this trying to obfuscate the term fake news that was created to describe the liberal media's coverage of Trump's 2016 campaign?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Wednesday October 16 2019, @05:36AM (6 children)
It's propaganda if the origin is obvious. It's fake news if the origin is hidden.
For example, the defence minister falsely telling that country X is preparing a war against your country is propaganda. Spreading the same information through sources not openly associated with the government, without the government being cited as source, is fake news.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:14AM (5 children)
The word for that is actually 'disinformation.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:44AM (4 children)
Fake news is a subcategory of disinformation. Disinformation does not need to appear to be news. For example, false claims about historical events are disinformation, but very clearly not news, and thus not fake news.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1) by Arik on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:48AM (3 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Bot on Wednesday October 16 2019, @08:03AM (2 children)
Technically you have to make an exception for a guy who lived 2000 years ago. Judaism, Islam, atheists and Christians tell incompatible things about him, and more incompatible things are debated among the ones "following" him. Pick one possibility, the sheer volume of necessarily defined disinformation about him is staggering anyway.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday October 16 2019, @08:14AM (1 child)
I can simplify this for you. Didn't live 2ky ago. No.
Is projected back in time by mainstream christians to that point.
Is in my considered opinion a fictional character. Partially based on at least 3 different historical characters from ~300bce forward, but all of them were drawing on more ancient sources.
But still, a fictional character. I don't think any of the major authors of the gospels, not even 'luke' intended to forge any sort of fake history.
It was bishops a century or more later who used their works to that end.
Jesus is a strange word in English. We're not meant to see it. But Mexico.
It's a greek or latino-greek word, a 'gloss' or simple translation of a hebrew or aramaic name best rendered in latin letters as 'Josh.'
It's the short familiar form of Joshua.
It made life very much more rewarding for a few people in some isolated communities for a few centuries. Then they were exterminated.
And their texts were repurposed.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @06:24PM
Thank you ever so much for sharing your <sarcasm>considered opinion</sarcasm> with us. I will store this in the nearest appropriate circular file for future reference.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Bot on Wednesday October 16 2019, @07:55AM (2 children)
Conflating the way something spreads with its truth value reveals poor methodology. They know, ofc, probably it is a way to make your research more palatable.
The fact that fake news spread like a virus means that the initial bits of disinformation were assimilated by useful idiots and spread in good faith. No more no less than gossip. If a limited number of very active outlets did most of the traffic instead, it would be more or less like real news. You know real news, right? those that had HRC being voted by 90% of people. Studying this one would be more interesting IMHO.
The "educate the most vulnerable targets" reeks of good old socialism.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 16 2019, @08:34AM (1 child)
Where did year that bullshit? Fox& Friends or infowars?
Everyone knows that Americans are too stupid to vote in any other way than partisan lines. Even if Hitler himself would come back as a zombie and be nominated by one of the parties, they would continue to vote for their party. And we even have proof of that already with republicans.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:14AM
sorry, but you might have heard what I really meant, that is 90% chance of winning.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKBN1322J1 [reuters.com]
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Pav on Wednesday October 16 2019, @09:26AM
:) Russian disinformation? 2016?? I'm sure there must have been some somewhere, but Russiagate? Really?? Yeah, corporate left media were almost unanimous, but there were some skeptical left wing voices... even Noam Chomsky became a skeptic eventually (are these the transmission that needs to be "cut"?). We need to remember how the Big Story started : Hillary's internal polling showing that the Republican Uranium One attacks were hitting home and were her biggest vulnerability. And in an effort to drag Trump into the same Russian mud (he was a huge target already so why bother?) Hillary's campaign paid for the Steele dossier. Hillary's campaign left it on the shelf during the campaign as Uranium One wasn't such a thing, and the dossier only came out to excuse the Hillary campaigns incompetence after she lost. This dossier was put together by some old English spies who decided to make some money in the private sector, and who hadn't actually been in Russia for years but still had some contacts. The pee tape and other "revelations" most probably weren't even true (as Mueller was forced to admit when pressed). Yes, if anyone still remembers THAT is how this all started, although there has been a lot of creative writing with some genuine garden variety corruption found during Muellers muck raking. Of course garden variety corruption could NOT be grounds for impeachment because they ALL do it, although Trump muck-raking in reverse (granted, in an extremely inappropriate way) is suddenly high treason. I'm certainly no Trump fan, and he actually does have a few connections to Russia and eastern europe in general... although he was incompetent enough in "business" (palm greasing?) that these ties weren't deep. Such corruption cuts across party lines in any case as Hunter Biden showed us most recently.
I know repetition is the oldest form of mind control, but surely the Russiagate BS can't be widely accepted here even when it was repeated every day for two years. I mean... really?? Perhaps I have too much faith in supposedly "rational" thinkers. There are great reporters on Russiagate who took a magnifying glass and some skepticism to it eg. Aaron Mate, Katie Halper, Matt Taibi, Glenn Greenwald (involved in helping Snowdens leak), Rania Khalek, Max Blumenthal, Jordan Chariton, Michael Tracy, and many others. They dug into a large enough sample of the "revelations" to show most of it was transparently BS, with a meager sprinkling of garden variety corruption thrown in (though much was made of little).
I can't believe I'm defending Trump, but the only things the establishment attacks him on are safely substance (and blowback) free.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday October 16 2019, @02:27PM
"Fake news," as a term is itself disingenuous. Since we have seen the term itself be manipulated to mean, "something I do not like or agree with but offer no proof as to falsity," trying to use it in any serious discussion is flatly stupid. The term is already too polluted to mean anything.
What kind of fake news are we talking about? If it is actually news, i.e. fact, then it cannot be fake. If it is false to fact then it is not news but disinformation, and if it may or may not be true it is opinion. And so we get to an incredibly dumb phrase like, "real fake news."
I'd rather propose that the first and best way to halt its progress is for people stop using the term fake news and instead say what the statements actually are. A second cure would be recognition and education that the vast majority of all media representing itself as news, these days, is actually opinion or entertainment commentary. Even if everybody knows this it bears repeating that while the world is bigger than any of us, there is no profit in simply reporting facts in a 24/7 context. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that presenting opinion and entertainment commentary is more profitable than simply disseminating facts. So if it is a 'news channel' you will be watching opinion or entertainment most of the time. And social media, as a medium, usually makes no pretense that they are presenting facts to you and instead you are mostly presented with a world of opinion.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by slashnot on Wednesday October 16 2019, @09:19PM (1 child)
specifically to avoid pointless political discussions like this. I know, before you write "...no one forced you to click on the story" well, I thought I'd see some cool maths about numeric modelling or something. Instead the most commented story of the day is D vs. R again.
Still better than Slashdot though. At least it's the only political story of the day. Thanks for welcoming me into your arms Soylent!
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:17AM
Migrant looking to steal our mod points, i see? welcome :P
Account abandoned.